Mini 1327: Murder in the Louvre- Day 6

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Hey Look I got votes. Ill read this up today & Tomorrow Works in little over an hour

[diddin]

chiaro is actually a good lynch, lots of fencesitting going on from that slot. shos first though

[Vi]

I feel the need to comment again on how stupid this shos lynch is.

[charter]

Why are people going on about shos and Chiaro being scumbuddies? I must have missed it.

[Parama]

chiaro is actually a good lynch, lots of fencesitting going on from that slot. shos first though

this is it.
diddin/chiaro

convincing enough

unvote, vote: chiaro

[Yosarian2]

Yos, thoughts on Chiar?

Eh, he could go either way. I actually kind of like the timing behind some of his votes and unvotes, it feels like he's reacting to stuff actually going on in the game instead of reacting to other people's reactions to stuff going on in the game if you know what I mean. I would like him to actually explain his reads on people in more detail, though, and would feel better if he would stop acting like he was afraid to commit himself to anything.

[UberNinja]

I got back early. I'll have some thoughts up in a while.

[UberNinja]

Ok, after re-reading, someone stuck out to me like a sore thumb.

Zar.

I barely even noticed him before this, but now that I've studied his play, it's almost

all

bad.

He asks questions instead of asserting opinions.
He rarely even follows up on those questions.
He rarely takes a concrete stance on anything.
He stays out of the spotlight on purpose.
He posts just enough to avoid lurkerhunter notice.
He doesn't rock the boat; so as not to make waves.
He randomly defends his Chiaro vote unnecessarily.

And now we'll go through his entire ISO.

VOTE: UberNinja

Ninjas can obviously murder without being detected.

RVS.

so you have no reason to belive otherwise...that means your default is that everyone is scum? so the empty Zar slot for example, it is scum too? why not lynch it?

O_o
anyway, you're probably not retarded, so you're trolling.. oh well~

eh, ninja'd by three posts:
@uber:
firstly, I didn't see it was broken till next time I got to the page; if I'm not online with others like now, I just submit and ctrl w, I don't look at the post I made.
secondly, I suppose that even if I did see it I wouldn't care enough to fix it, since it was a random vote, not to be taken seriously.
third - are you seriously asking this?

Hey! My Slot isn't empty! </3

Anyway:

Me and Vi are going to make cute little tiger babies that wear hats and ties and look all innocent.

Your babies can be innocent, even if you're not xD.

Now seriously why are you all voting Parama and not the Ninja?

Look at him, he backed out of his push before it got out hand, but opted on leaving a placeholder. Already worrying about looking good?

More RVS stuff, half-ass smear of me trying to look good (i.e. the only stance he's taken so far... and the only reason it's backed up with a vote is because his RVS vote was already on me).

@Ninja Yep, I'm half of HL.

As for your META link, thanks for sharing, but I don't think I will be using it anytime soon. META is something players can handpick to point at. I rather focus on your in-game behavior.

Doesn't like meta.

Quilford: do you have any scumreads? / suspects?

Asks a question. Doesn't follow up on it.

00berninja reads as noobtown trying too hard, not particularly scummy. shos, on the other hand, is flailing scum.

Care to ellaborate on the reasons for both opinions?

Asks a question.

What exactly is he case on Parama, again?

Asks a question.

Yeah it's true.

I don't know why I'm not being lynched really but I'll accept it :B

Parama = Meh.

I think you could maybe tell if there are other things/players you find suspicious besides your shos thoughts, rather than pulling a victim card. #justsayin'

Either this is coaching a scumbuddy, or it's coaching a townie. I can't tell which.

00berninja reads as noobtown trying too hard, not particularly scummy

. shos, on the other hand, is flailing scum.

Care to ellaborate on the reasons for both opinions?

diddin: You've already covered your thoughts on shos.

What about UberNinja's posts makes you feel this way?? (underlined for clarity)

Asks the same question as post #166, but ... Doesn't follow up on the answer.

Re-reading shos, I don't like how the accusations he has made so far have all spun around himself. Strikes me as OMGUSSy

Shos: who do you currently suspect? Is there anyone who hasn't been all over you you who you find scummy?

Says shos is OMGUSing, then asks more questions.

Zar, are you scum?

Nope.

(Ninja: just go read your ROLE PM closely, you'll notice my name is not listed among your night time buddies. xD)

Nervous reaction joke, fearing that saying "Nope" wouldn't be convincing enough... then jokes about me being scum instead of him.

It's becoming obvious.

tell me then
at exactly which post did RVS end?

Okay Parama, please tell me you're not implying that RVS is a well-defined and separate game stage?

Takes a dig at Parama for what Parama is extremely obviously already criticizing someone else for.

a) not paying attention to context
b) trying to make someone else look bad/foolish

whatever I think is scummy, I mention, Zar. so you can go over my posts and see about specifics; so far there haven't been incredible scumslips in my opinion, but only slightly scummy things. Diddin and Uber and Parama are my top three so far. I think the case on quilford isn't quite legit, but I want to see more about how people play here so I'm kinda avoiding stating my thoughts about that.

^^ I think this is a genuine response and most like to come from a townie player. So I'm currently leaning townish on shos.

also, you can see my last post right on top of you for example - what's OMGUSy in my play? O_o

What I considered OMGussy of your play comes from me ISOing you. It seemed to me your suspicions on players are focused on those that have either attacked you or voted you.

Did his consideration regarding shos' OMGUSy behavior revert, based on his new "currently leaning townish" read on shos?

No, but it's convenient to have a "leaning townish" read on shos if he does end up flipping town.

i was getting shitty gut reactions from Parama's voters because of the way they handled the wagon, but I find their reasoning for parama being scum as valid

Can you elaborate on this? If their reasoning for Parama being scum is valid, aren't you implying that either 1. they're bussing Parama or 2. there's more than one scumgroup?

Furc, read the link I posted to Mini 1318. You too, Chiaro. It's 3 pages tops; not asking you to meta me or anything, but it's stupid to lynch someone on page 3, and I just destroyed a town that did it to a VI. Shos, while he may be a VI-scum, is still a bad idea to lynch. The guy in Mini 1318 literally claimed scum, and he was still a townie.

I agree that it would be a bad idea to lynch shos. However, I don't think any player except maybe shos himself saw the wagon going anywhere, and I don't think you're an exception. As such, I see your words and unvote as oppotunistic white-knighting.

However, you were also the first to draw attention to Parama, who I'm also finding scummy for claiming scum. Frankly, I wasn't comfortable calling him out on it due to knowledge of his meta but Vi's vote gives me more confidence. I'm not sure what to make of your interactions with him

.

Chiaro basically promised to come with more contribution about three RL days ago and this is the only thing he has managed to produce? Really?

Ew. This has to be one of the worst posts (if not, the worst) in this thread so far. First of all its so wishy washy it hurts. It also takes the opportunity to tag along with another's opinion. (Which is what, the second time Chiaro parrots another players thoughts?). It also looks like something a buddy would use as an excuse to vote for a partner.

UNVOTE

VOTE:CHIAROSICADA

The first time he's done anything, really.

Zar you disappoint me

why?

As for being wishy-washy, I've gotten that both as town and as scum but I don't agree with the accusation. Mafia's a nuanced game and town lacks information. I think it's worse to have certainty of players' alignments on page 3, which some people in this game have claimed to have.

How do you think your contribution is helping?

Why are people voting chiaro again?

IMO, The few posts where Chiaro has allegedly contributed take stances only after other players have stated an intents. Chiaro's general tone and opinions land in a safe zone. Being wishy washy is a good way of sensing momentum to hop into a wagon. Chiaro doesn't strike me as truly engaged on the scumhunt at this point.

I also think this post is a good reason to keep voting Chiaro from his own words:

My philosophy as town is generally to be transparent with my thoughts, even if others might call it sheeping. The theory is that my towniness will show through eventually to other town who think similarly... but I guess that's not true, and I suppose can understand why. And everyone should be afraid of being lynched, town included. We only know our own alignment and you're helping town by not getting lynched.

In other news, I need to do more than defend myself and give the game a re-read.

I don't see any scum-hunting intent, only an interest in giving the impression of looking town. Furthermore, it sounds as another bid for more time. Somehow, I don't bode well with players that keep saying they will come back without delivering. It's a good strategy for scum to look like they are trying to make an effort to help, and I suspect this is one of those cases.

"I think this is a good reason to keep voting Chiaro" -- Defends his Chiaro vote unnecessarily... who has said that his Chiaro vote was bad at all?

your vote is bad

Is this addressed to me? Why is my vote bad?

Then furcolow says it's bad, and he asks why it's bad. And that's where we are right now.


--------


Is it conclusive that he's scum? No. But it's surprisingly unnoticeable and I'm getting strange vibes from it.

I'll be honest: before I made this post, I was like 100% convinced Zar was scum. As I went through the ISO and commented on everything though, I began to see that a lot of what he was saying could possibly come from a town mindset too... Even so, it's striking me as odd, and if I was a cop, he's who I'd inspect tonight -- no doubt about it.

Throughout my re-read, I have other reads to share with you all:

shos - Reversing my read on him to townie. Call me crazy but I think he's town now.
Vi - Not sure here, but has been consistent on Parama-scum. Seems to be esp. wily though.
diddin - Very unhelpful. Needs to replace out if he's not going to contribute.
Quilford/Elmo TeH AzN - Getting a town vibe now. I don't like the wagon at all, and if I ever did, I don't any longer.
Chiarosicada - A worthy lynch, but not my first choice. Probably not even my second choice.
Yosarian2 - My first choice. It's a damn crying shame nobody else agrees with me.
Parama - I'm getting mixed reactions on Parama. I want to leave him alive at least another day.
Nuwen - Seems particularly aggressive, but not particularly bright. No read on alignment.
Fate/Zar - See above.
charter - Seems town. Seems earnest. Play is very similar to last game we had together, where he was also town.
kanyeknowsbest - Ridiculously scummy. Not sure if playstyle or just scum. Somebody help me out here.
Furcolow - Seems town. Common sense, but succinct to the point of being nebulous. Please wax eloquent more.


Conclusion: here are my favored lynches, from most to least:

Yosarian/kanye
Chiaro
Zar

diddin (I prefer replacement though)

Nuwen
Vi
Parama (I want to wait at least a game day)

charter
Quilford/Elmo
shos
Furcolow

[kanyeknowsbest]

yo elaborate on how you are getting a town vibe on quilford/elmo "now"? the only recent activity from him is elmo saying hes going to read the game?

[kanyeknowsbest]

basically youre full of shit.

[kanyeknowsbest]

and also probably his scum partner? thats cool. but real chat someone please tell me why we arent lynching the most obvious fuckin scum in this game?

[Elmo TeH AzN]

and also probably his scum partner? thats cool. but real chat someone please tell me why we arent lynching the most obvious fuckin scum in this game?

Whos that? Mind you I've not read past page 3

[kanyeknowsbest]

its you.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

-_- I was hoping you wouldn't say that. I glanced at Quils Iso and its garbage. He was all over the place and didn't seem to really care for this game. At least he replaced out though. His vote on Nuwen is crap. Speaking of which
UNVOTE: Nuwen

[kanyeknowsbest]

-_- I was hoping you wouldn't say that. I glanced at Quils Iso and its garbage. He was all over the place and didn't seem to really care for this game. At least he replaced out though. His vote on Nuwen is crap. Speaking of which
UNVOTE: Nuwen

yall see this scumfession?

[shos]

Ninja's post about Zar is terrible. that's a reeheaheaaaally forced case, which holds no water. what's wrong in asking questions? what follow up do you want for a question like 'remind me why you think ___ is scum'?

what made you reverse your opinion on me all of a sudden?
what mixed reactions do you get on Parama? or more in depth - what *good* reactions do you get from parama?
why are you so certain about Yos? build a case on him in a post/quote one for me please~

@Kanye: I totally agree with ninja about you being scum. I still don't have an idea why anyone thought Quil/elmo slot is scum and if you too can build a one-post case it'll be great.

on a second read of your post ninja,

I'll be honest: before I made this post, I was like 100% convinced Zar was scum. As I went through the ISO and commented on everything though, I began to see that a lot of what he was saying could possibly come from a town mindset too... Even so, it's striking me as odd, and if I was a cop, he's who I'd inspect tonight -- no doubt about it.

this, untill the 'even so', gives me town vibes. However, that last sentence - it is bad. it's like you are trying to get the cop in this game, if such exists, to investigate someone. this definitely could come from a scum PoV - you're trying to get the cop to investigate someone who is not in your scumteam.
so the second part kinda stops my town vibes. I'll see the answers to the questions above and I'll decide. as you know so far you've been on my scum radar.

pedit:
Kanye, what the hell? how can that be interpretted as scumfession?

[kanyeknowsbest]

"gosh quilford sure was scummy youre right here let me just distance myself from everything he did were good now right?"

[kanyeknowsbest]

emphasis on his unvote being because it was something quilford did and looks scummy and not because of his own personal reads.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

"gosh quilford sure was scummy youre right here let me just distance myself from everything he did were good now right?"

Seriously? I said I read quils iso and it's bad ESP the vote on Nuwen. He looked uninterested in this game and obviously replaced out because of it.

emphasis on his unvote being because it was something quilford did and looks scummy and not because of his own personal reads.

Because even he said it? HE JUST WANTE TO VOTE FOR NUWEN?!?!??!
WANNA TUNNEL HARDER ON ME SCUM?
VOTE: Kayne
I don't have to fake getting angry like quil because your tunneling so far is just crap.

[kanyeknowsbest]

cool.

[shos]

Kanye please kindly answer without any sarcasm, lengthily and elaboratedly, why do you think quil slot is scum.

[Vi]

Unvote: Parama
Vote: kanyeknowsbest

(L-5)

It would be criminal not to after this page. Plus he's less entertaining than Parama.

[Nuwen]

Kanye has no reason to diligently tunnel on the Quilford slot as scum, with so much other fucking fodder in this game. I read his convinction as stronk and value the support behind my top wagon. The replacement has done nothing to alleviate my scum read on it, especially after voting for Kanye. At this point in the game, scum really have no choice but to attack their attackers.

[UberNinja]

yo elaborate on how you are getting a town vibe on quilford/elmo "now"? the only recent activity from him is elmo saying hes going to read the game?

After re-reading his posts, I think he's town. It has nothing to do with any new content, it's just my new assessment of his old content.

That said, I don't recall ever thinking he's scum though. I don't really re-read my posts after I post them, so that's why I included "If I ever thought his wagon was good, it's really not". However, since you seemed to be insinuating that I flipped my reads out of nowhere, I went back and I DID check my posts.

Nowhere did I say that Quilford was scum, or that anything he said was scummy. The only sentence with both "Quilford" and "scum" in it was this post:

i still support my quilford vote. going to reread cus most of my other reads are nonexistent at this point.

Mod, please replace me.

having no fun and no motivation to read up or anything. apologies.

yep. hes definitely scum.

If Quilford flips scum, kanye is his buddy.

[UberNinja]

-_- I was hoping you wouldn't say that. I glanced at Quils Iso and its garbage. He was all over the place and didn't seem to really care for this game. At least he replaced out though. His vote on Nuwen is crap. Speaking of which
UNVOTE: Nuwen

Amished tell detected.