Mini 1327: Murder in the Louvre- Day 6


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Post Post #375 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:01 am

Post by UberNinja »

shos wrote:Ninja's post about Zar is terrible. that's a reeheaheaaaally forced case, which holds no water. what's wrong in asking questions? what follow up do you want for a question like 'remind me why you think ___ is scum'?

No, it's really not terrible. It's good because it puts more pressure on him to contribute, it brings his lack of contribution to light, and it shows how little of a footprint he's making on the game (i.e. good scum play).

And even if nothing else, that post shows that I have the ability to change my reads when I find out they're wrong, or at least misguided. Maybe you missed this part of that post:
UberNinja wrote:I'll be honest: before I made this post, I was like 100% convinced Zar was scum. As I went through the ISO and commented on everything though, I began to see that a lot of what he was saying could possibly come from a town mindset too... Even so, it's striking me as odd, and if I was a cop, he's who I'd inspect tonight -- no doubt about it.


shos wrote:what made you reverse your opinion on me all of a sudden?

A strange concoction of "too dumb to be scum" mixed with "this wagon is too easy" mixed with "there's not much we can get in terms of information based on his lynch" and then the cake-taker "too many scummy people voting him for crap reasons."

shos wrote:what mixed reactions do you get on Parama? or more in depth - what *good* reactions do you get from parama?

He's done plenty of things that are scummy, no doubt there. But Vi's push on him is weird and I'm undecided about some of the things he's done in terms of the motivations behind them. It's more of a vague "well what if he's town? that'd be a wasted lynch and we'd be nowhere still because otherwise he totally deserved it and everyone has a good excuse for being on his wagon so we'd learn basically nothing" kind of feeling.

shos wrote:why are you so certain about Yos? build a case on him in a post/quote one for me please~

I get bad feelings from how he tries to throw his weight around when questioned, and then disappears when not.

shos wrote:
I'll be honest: before I made this post, I was like 100% convinced Zar was scum. As I went through the ISO and commented on everything though, I began to see that a lot of what he was saying could possibly come from a town mindset too... Even so, it's striking me as odd, and if I was a cop, he's who I'd inspect tonight -- no doubt about it.

this, untill the 'even so', gives me town vibes. However, that last sentence - it is bad. it's like you are trying to get the cop in this game, if such exists, to investigate someone. this definitely could come from a scum PoV - you're trying to get the cop to investigate someone who is not in your scumteam.
so the second part kinda stops my town vibes. I'll see the answers to the questions above and I'll decide. as you know so far you've been on my scum radar.

Ok I see you didn't miss that part. No, I'm not trying to direct the cop who to inspect, I'm saying that theoretically if I was a cop I'd inspect him. I inspect people that I can't get solid reads on, but are leaning scummy for things I can't put my finger on + I don't think I'll be able to convince people to lynch them. If that makes sense to you, great; if not, no biggie.
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Post Post #376 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:03 am

Post by UberNinja »

Yos, please post your reads on everyone in the game.
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Post Post #377 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:57 am

Post by shos »

what is amished tells?
UberNinja wrote:Yos, please post your reads on everyone in the game.

+1.

Uber just might be townie as well ;)
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Post Post #378 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:15 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

UberNinja wrote:Yos, please post your reads on everyone in the game.


Quiford/Elmo is probably scum, you are probably scum. Parama is pretty iffy too. Nuwen, Vi, and Charter look town-ish, although it's too early to be too confident on any of them. Kanye looks pretty townish. That's the only reads I have so far, everyone else is pretty meh right now.
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Post Post #379 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:40 am

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Nuwen wrote:Kanye has no reason to diligently tunnel on the Quilford slot as scum, with so much other fucking fodder in this game.
Yosarian2 378 wrote:Quiford/Elmo is probably scum, you are probably scum. Parama is pretty iffy too. Nuwen, Vi, and Charter look town-ish, although it's too early to be too confident on any of them. Kanye looks pretty townish.
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Post Post #380 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:48 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Well, can you explain why you think Kanye is scum, Vi? I really don't see it at all.
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Post Post #381 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:51 am

Post by charter »

Can you explain how you think Kayne is the towniest person? Because that's a stretch to have him as town at all.
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Post Post #382 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:53 am

Post by Vi »

Yosarian2 wrote:Well, can you explain why you think Kanye is scum, Vi? I really don't see it at all.
The unmitigated opportunism, the utter lack of Towniness, the
being scum
, etc.
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Post Post #383 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:59 am

Post by kanyeknowsbest »

huh. see i thought that towniness was wanting to lynch scum. guess i was mistaken.
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Post Post #384 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:00 am

Post by charter »

Nuwen wrote:At this point in the game, scum really have no choice but to attack their attackers.

how is this now the only acceptable strategy for scum, whereas a few pages ago it was
Nuwen wrote:Scum do NOT often take an immediately post-RVS case and run with it for pages. You might see this behavior in less than one of any twenty mafia games with competent, attentive people. Scum have a tendency to chime in on formed wagons riiiiight about NOW in the gamestate, or lurk behind their RVS vote until there's enough content to compile a case.


It looks to me that scum only do whatever is most convenient to give some feeble backing to your "suspicions".
What's your read on Chiaro, Nuwen?
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Post Post #385 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:01 am

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charter wrote:Can you explain how you think Kayne is the towniest person? Because that's a stretch to have him as town at all.


Was that directed at me? I never called him "the towniest person". He's looking pretty townish at this point, though. The way he's pushing Quilford/Elmo looks pretty sincere and pretty logical, and it looks like he's also looking for plausable scum partners and stuff.
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Post Post #386 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:05 am

Post by charter »

Yosarian2 wrote:
charter wrote:Can you explain how you think Kayne is the towniest person? Because that's a stretch to have him as town at all.


Was that directed at me? I never called him "the towniest person". He's looking pretty townish at this point, though. The way he's pushing Quilford/Elmo looks pretty sincere and pretty logical, and it looks like he's also looking for plausable scum partners and stuff.

It was. I deduced that you thought him the towniest person because there was no qualifier to your town read of him like others had. If he's not the towniest person in your eyes, who is then? I would disagree that the way he's pushing Quilford looks sincere or logical, as to me it looks like he's said very little about Quilford and has done even less of pushing a Quilford lynch.
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Post Post #387 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:08 am

Post by kanyeknowsbest »

ive said more about quilford than any other player in this game, its where my vote is, and im actively declaring him scum? how is any of what you just said true?
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Post Post #388 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:09 am

Post by kanyeknowsbest »

by the way did you know that i think that slot is fucking scum and want it lynched?
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Post Post #389 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:10 am

Post by charter »

All your posts about Quilford are one liners boiling down to "Quilford is scum" that are forgotten as soon as you read it.
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Post Post #390 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:10 am

Post by kanyeknowsbest »

except not?
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Post Post #391 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:12 am

Post by kanyeknowsbest »

kanyeknowsbest wrote:
Quilford wrote:also yeah

yos is giving me the odd vibes like i give kids candy

oh, is this not trying to set up some followup on yos?

note you also did this with vi. you basically said that half the parama wagon could be scummy but you are not opposed to his lynch.

kanyeknowsbest wrote:
UberNinja wrote:
Quilford wrote:
Nuwen wrote:So you wouldn't be opposed to a Parama lynch, but don't want it NOW

OF COURSE I DON'T FUCKING WANT IT NOW WE ARE 72 HOURS AND 6 PAGES INTO DAY 1

yeah yeah long days harm the town, /whatever/

short days are even worse. a handful of people have barely posted, the less you hear from people the less you can hold them accountable for wht they've said.

kindly fuck off with your 'i caught one live' bullshit, anyone who says that and means it on page 5 is deluding themselves

"You see this shit all the time now; scum don't know whether to commit to a defense of a townie or take the juicy hammer thrust in front of their faces. Instead, they waffle their reads on the wagon'd player ("he's probably scum... but I want more information first") player and try to shift suspicion onto the tail-end voters."
lol y u so dumb

IF I WERE SAYING BUT I WANT MORE INFORMATION FIRST ON PAGE FORTY FUCKING FIVE THAT WOULD BE A WAFFLED READ. SAYING IT ON PAGE FIVE IS NOT. HOW CAN YOU SHIFT SUSPICION ONTO THE TAIL END VOTERS OF A PLAYER WHO HASN'T EVEN FLIPPED? YOUR VOTE WAS AS SHIT AS ALL HELL AND I FOUND YOS VAGUELY SCUMMY IN HOW HE WAS COMING ACROSS NOT BECAUSE OF WHAT HE SAID ABOUT PARAMA

analyze this, people. does this sound like scum to you?

its called fake mad.

kanyeknowsbest wrote:btw for anyone who is unconvinced this is a quilscum action: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17789

kanyeknowsbest wrote:"gosh quilford sure was scummy youre right here let me just distance myself from everything he did were good now right?"

kanyeknowsbest wrote:emphasis on his unvote being because it was something quilford did and looks scummy and not because of his own personal reads.

wow sure is a lot of not specific reasons why i think that slot is scum. guess all i really did is say "your scum"
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Post Post #392 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:14 am

Post by kanyeknowsbest »

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Post Post #393 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:15 am

Post by Elmo TeH AzN »

So you link mine and Quils Iso..Cheeky
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Post Post #394 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:16 am

Post by kanyeknowsbest »

imho its pretty damning evidence.
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Post Post #395 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:22 am

Post by UberNinja »

Elmo, are you scum?
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Post Post #396 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:23 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

charter wrote:
Yosarian2 wrote:
charter wrote:Can you explain how you think Kayne is the towniest person? Because that's a stretch to have him as town at all.


Was that directed at me? I never called him "the towniest person". He's looking pretty townish at this point, though. The way he's pushing Quilford/Elmo looks pretty sincere and pretty logical, and it looks like he's also looking for plausable scum partners and stuff.

It was. I deduced that you thought him the towniest person because there was no qualifier to your town read of him like others had. If he's not the towniest person in your eyes, who is then?


(shrug) I don't really have any hard town-reads I would bet the game on at this point, if that's what you're asking. I've got a handfull of soft town reads, none of which I am 100% confident on. You, Vi, and Nuwen have all played in a pro-town way, but all three of you are quite tricksy in different ways, and I wouldn't want to bet the game on your innocence this early on day 1. Kanye looks town so far, but I haven't heard all that much from him yet. Really not interested in nailing it down any harder then that at this point.







I would disagree that the way he's pushing Quilford looks sincere or logical, as to me it looks like he's said very little about Quilford and has done even less of pushing a Quilford lynch.


I've seen Kanye do the one-liner posting style before when town, often for long periods of time.

These are the reasons Kanye gave for voting Quilford.

First, he agreed with the reason Nuwen gave, putting Quilford at 3 votes.

Nuwen wrote:So you wouldn't be opposed to a Parama lynch, but don't want it NOW, and also believe both Yos and I are scum for as a result of our votes on Parama?

unvote, vote Quilford


Fuck page 5. Page 6 is where the lynch is at. Cut Parama loose, I caught real scum. You see this shit all the time now; scum don't know whether to commit to a defense of a townie or take the juicy hammer thrust in front of their faces. Instead, they waffle their reads on the wagon'd player ("he's probably scum... but I want more information first") player and try to shift suspicion onto the tail-end voters.


kanyeknowsbest wrote:i like it

unvote vote quillford



He then expanded on Nuwen's reasoning a little

kanyeknowsbest wrote:
Quilford wrote:also yeah

yos is giving me the odd vibes like i give kids candy

oh, is this not trying to set up some followup on yos?

note you also did this with vi. you basically said that half the parama wagon could be scummy but you are not opposed to his lynch.


Then he said that he thought Quilford's anger looked fake.

Later, when Quilford replaced out, he linked to a different game where Quilford replaced out on day 1 under pressure after behaving in a similar way (and was scum in that game, too.) I was in that game with Kanye and Quilford, and I was already thinking about it myself; the fact that Kanye was thinking along the same lines seemed like a good sign.

He poked at Uberninja, after some really iffy looking Quilford-defending on Uberninja's part. (UN defended Quilford early, and then after Elmo replaced in and said basically nothing, UN suddenly called him "town" and Kanye called him out on it.) He also attacked Elmo's attempt to distance from Quilford's scummy actions, and Elmo OMGUSed him for it.

Conclusion: kanye is probably town, Quilford/elmo is probably scum.

PPE: Eh, looks like Kanye already responded with most of the same points while I was typing. Probably better that he respond anyway. For that matter, charter, if you wanted to understand Kanye's vote, why did you ask me and not him?
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Post Post #397 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:25 am

Post by UberNinja »

Yosarian2 wrote:
UberNinja wrote:Yos, please post your reads on everyone in the game.


Quiford/Elmo is probably scum, you are probably scum. Parama is pretty iffy too. Nuwen, Vi, and Charter look town-ish, although it's too early to be too confident on any of them. Kanye looks pretty townish. That's the only reads I have so far, everyone else is pretty meh right now.

I'm not even close to scum, Quilford is also probably town. Parama is iffy, but not worth killing today.

Can you tell me why kanye is townish or Nuwen is townish, because I'm not seeing it.
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Post Post #398 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:26 am

Post by Elmo TeH AzN »

No Im not. This is why I was trying to use Quils ISO to prove it. Want me to link to a game where I did the exact same thing and turned out to be town? Not sure if it got wiped though...And even then Im 6 pages back on a read.

Screw it. I feel like I just replaced into a slot thats going to get lynched. I didn't know Quil really made scummy actions as much as he didn't seem to like to play this game and made some terribad votes.
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Post Post #399 (ISO) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:28 am

Post by shos »

Kanye, Charter is quite right. giving links to ISOs doesn't promote anything; and your whole lot of specific reasons - the last three are seriously nothing; a Large game like that, I might have replaced out as well, both as scum and as town, and the other two just say 'that unvote is scummy'. the large quote is again nothing but 'he is scum'. my point is that to me it seems like you have just one point against that slot, and even that one is not scummy at all in my opinion.

you call all that 'damning evidence'. really?

eh, been ninja'd by 4 posts, will respond in a sec
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