Open 382: Friends and Enemies in MSPaint! (Game Over)


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Post Post #450 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:40 am

Post by Rhinox »

Slandaar wrote:The trouble is... Rhinox has fencesat today


I'll make time to post my thoughts this evening.

I think its unfair for you to say I'm fencesitting, at least in the scummy way you are implying. Its lylo, I'm not just going to rush in and vote you without giving the game its due diligence.

Rainbow has been a townread for me mostly for pointing out when/why tracy was prob-town and you have been a townread for me mainly because, idk really I can't really remember why right now probably I liked your playstyle / disliked the players going after you. In retrospect neither of them are very good reasons for calling either of you town when you're in lylo with me, so yeah I have to take time to go back and reread most of both of you without the pretext of "I think you're town" slanting my interpretation of everything both of you have said.

If you want something to do while you're waiting for me to post thoughts go look up my past games you'll see I'm always overly cautious to a fault in lylo.
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Post Post #451 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:45 am

Post by Slandaar »

I have already metaed both of you to a certain degree.

Rainbows scumhunting here is not right.
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Post Post #452 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:46 am

Post by Slandaar »

go and meta him yourself and see what you think, I replied in 5 mins so I clearly didnt meta him in that time.
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Post Post #453 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:40 pm

Post by Alicewondering »

I skimmed through the post where Slandaar asked why I wasn't NKed. It is true that I was left alive for some reason, because of my reads. I'm thinking very carefully and trying not to WIFOM myself, but I think there is too much WIFOM involved to get very clear answers on this, as Rhinox observed.

I'm thinking very carefully about my reads right now. I'm going to say nothing about them until I'm fairly sure what I want to say to everyone.

Slandaar, I assume Rainbow is your top pick for scum. Why is Rhinox town?
Rhinox, scumreads and reasoning?
Rainbow, why is Rhinox town?
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Post Post #454 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:41 pm

Post by Slandaar »

I will write more walls later
Theres tons I have considered but it boils down to rainbow not scumhunting while Rhinox did. Rainbow has been mason hunting all game.

The fact is, there is some wifom/speculation involved in the nks especially kami/spy nk, but rainbows logic follows that he would think kami a likely mason and spy will shake game up, so it makes sense scumrainbow kills kami.
On the other hand, if rhinox were scum I dont understand why he doesnt nk rainbow that night.
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Post Post #455 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:47 pm

Post by Slandaar »

well I do have an idea...

Rhinoxscum thinks Rainbow is going to vote kass so doesnt kill him, but then if they kill kami and he flips VT, rhinox should know its going to be hard from there as everyone was calling him town, and if rhinox doesnt nk rainbow it means he doesnt think hes mason, therefore we conclude that Rhinoxscum should have thought missing on kami is very bad as there would be close to 4 conf town out of 9 players and so he nks rainbow.

The trouble is, thats what I think, but its quite a loose idea and is trying to outthink Rhinox too much to be anywhere close to reliable.

It just makes more logical sense rainbow makes the kill
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Post Post #456 (ISO) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:46 am

Post by Rainbowdash »

Slandaar wrote:On the other hand, if rhinox were scum I dont understand why he doesnt nk rainbow that night.


Ummm... because of my rules.

Remember my "policy lynch Furc" stance? I was going to get him killed, scum knew he was not scum, why kill me there and maybe let him get away? Given that both ETA and Blue sheeped that hard, im sure that was their gameplan, let me kill Furc for them.

Spy was a safe kill. Decent player replacing into a lurky slot whos only real read had been correct (ETA-scum). I think any of us as scum would have had them on a shortlist.

Am I right in your entire defense for why you pushed Kass over Blue was policy though? I thought policy lynching was scummy.

@Alice - The only thing hanging me up about Rhinox-town is his early posts, especially the one where he suggests having anypony who claims mason also have to call out a partner first. Apart from that im at the point where I really have him as town due to no reason to call him scum. It makes me a little suspicious, but when I can point to specific instances where I see Slandaar scum I like that vote more right now.
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Post Post #457 (ISO) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:47 am

Post by Slandaar »

Rainbowdash wrote:
Remember my "policy lynch Furc" stance? I was going to get him killed, scum knew he was not scum, why kill me there and maybe let him get away? Given that both ETA and Blue sheeped that hard, im sure that was their gameplan, let me kill Furc for them.

Wrong Night.

Interesting.
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Spy was a safe kill. Decent player replacing into a lurky slot whos only real read had been correct (ETA-scum). I think any of us as scum would have had them on a shortlist.

Nope I would not, I didnt know who spy is and never played with before untill very very recently (long after he was the nk), I clearly would have killed Alice.

I know why you would though he fits on your mason list nicely and you think hes a decent player.
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Am I right in your entire defense for why you pushed Kass over Blue was policy though? I thought policy lynching was scummy.

If you think ABC are for sure scum how do you decide which of ABC to vote? the one you like voting the most; ie Kass.

I did no such thing as push it; get quotes.
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Post Post #458 (ISO) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:51 am

Post by Slandaar »

Rainbowdash wrote:
Two of Rhinox/ETA/Blueberry + One of Slandaar/Kass

Other unlikelyhoods

Kass-Rhinox
Blueberry-Slandaar

Noticeable high chance pairings
Kass/Blueberry/ETA
Rhinox/Slandaar/ETA
Blueberry/Rhinox/ETA

So you were just lying here Rainbow?

Why was it two of Rhinox/Elmo/Blue and one of me/Kass exactly?

Why was Tracey obvVT?
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Post Post #459 (ISO) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:01 pm

Post by Rainbowdash »

Slandaar wrote:Why was it two of Rhinox/Elmo/Blue and one of me/Kass exactly?


That was more of a simplifying process to help streamline things and see what made itself present. The real breakdown was

Three of Rhinox-Blue-ETA-Kass/Slandaar. The two of you were not scum together, so it helped in the simplifying process to come up with the easy equation of "One of two + two of three"

Why was Tracey obvVT?


Do you really think a mason QT is going to have nopony mention "hey cool im mason this time/again?"

As soon as I saw that response from her I was convinced she was a VT because as mason somepony would have dropped something answering her question.

Im still thinking about this and actually going back more to 50-50 here almost on WIFOM of I really have a hard time seeing Slandaar make a few of the moves that they have.
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Post Post #460 (ISO) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:51 am

Post by Slandaar »

Tracey replaced in so she wouldnt have posted in the qt. Theres no reason to assume the other masons would have posted anything like that. Therefore Tracey-Mason was on the table and she was basically conftown.

Even if you thought she was VT and there is no reason to assume so that I can see, killing close to conftown is not exactly bad.
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Post Post #461 (ISO) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:54 am

Post by Slandaar »

Slandaar wrote:
(Rhinox)
For anyone not paying attention, Rainbow became prob-town for pointing out Tracy is almost certainly town in this post - it was a very good catch, could have been very easily missed. I think scum-rainbow doesn't dig that deep to draw attention to that. Sure, there's always the possibility of doing it for town-cred,
but up until then Tracy was pretty juicy lynchbait
, and taking her lynch off the table like that hurts scum more than getting rainbow town cred helps. Scum only point out things like that that are already obvious for towncred, not things that make winning for them harder.

(Elmo)
Rhinox - Thats how I viewed it and why I said the last page was full of derp. And about the post from Tracey you get townish vibes but I would ask you the question whats more dangerous to scum though? Conftown or Active players. And I really didn't see Tracey as juicy lynchbait either. But maybe Im just misreading a lot of things as I have been as of late.

(Rhinox
I don't thing those are mutually exclusive options in this case. Tracey was scum the first draw, so she must be town now if she does not know the role were re-randomized. I think you're incinuating that rainbow pointing that out doesn't hurt scum because Tracy is less active and useless to town anyways and now a more active town player could maybe get mislynched (from some hyposcum Rainbow POV), but there's no reason scumRainbow couldn't have tried to get moreactivetownie mslynched anyways and left Tracy alone without pointing out her prob-townie-ness.

As for Tracy being lynchbait, meh when I first read the thread I saw she got a lot of suspicion and didn't seem to handle it that well so she kinda came across as an easy lynch regardless of alignment.
I could see scum viewing her as a possible mislynch at some point in the game, which is no longer possible due to rainbow.

To directly answer your conftown vs active players question, active players aren't dangerous to scum if they're wrong, and sometimes active town lead the town to their demise. a group of conf-town is dangerous to scum regarless of how active they are. Eventually POE finds the scum.

(Elmo)
That's what I thought as well and everyone was telling me poe doesn't work. :/
And even then wasn't Tracey part of a hydra before though?

//This is an interesting little interaction; Rhinox and Elmo talking scum strat in thread? This would completely explain why an Elmo/Blue/Rhinox team would nk Tracey and not Rainbow.

I feel this needs highlighting as this interaction tells us why Tracey died n1 assuming Rhinox-scum. Kami died n2 because Rainbow and I were at that point both on the wrong track.


Rainbow what do you think of this interaction and what about the bolded?
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Post Post #462 (ISO) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:37 am

Post by Slandaar »

hrm
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Post Post #463 (ISO) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:42 am

Post by Slandaar »

I am Expectant

Even though this was 2 days ago now...
Rhinox wrote:
I'll make time to post my thoughts this evening.
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Post Post #464 (ISO) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:16 am

Post by Rainbowdash »

Slandaar wrote:Rainbow what do you think of this interaction and what about the bolded?


Hard to tell really.

Im going back and forth on WIFOM. One of my biggest problems is that I tend to think scum see as much as I do, epsecially in games like this where they should be looking for what I just happen to stumble accross. Tracy is probably one of those interesting things, where I dont see why she got killed from really any of us being scum.

I wouldnt have made that kill as scum in part because she looked obviously like VT, but also because if I flipped she would take some heat for me trying to clear her early on. Rhinox I think would have been able to see what I saw in her being a VT, and killing her probably gave me a very little bit of town credit, but I was wrong on just about everything else so it wouldnt be a huge threat. You it makes the most sense from, but I kinda am biting on your reasoning as to why you would have killed Alice. Plus you sorta strike me as somepony who would like to bus, and you have been wrong about basically everything this game. I think being in such a volatile spot you would want to pick up some town credits as scum eventually.

Problem is I have very little reasoning to believe that Rhinox is scum or town. He just exists really in my notes. Cause for concern when I can write mini essays on why you are scum or town in this game that I just have nothing there. Little to no interaction with others, little to no solid stances at key points, just grey all the way.

I think my biggest hiccup on Rhinox-scum is that I really dont think the kills make sense from him, but it could be me applying my theories on how to play to scum. The kills just seem to come from somepony who is town read hunting and not mason hunting. I think Rhinox as scum would have been able to pick up VT-Tracy and maybe kondi-mason. Masons are the priority, not town reads, those can be changed if you play cards right.
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Post Post #465 (ISO) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:21 am

Post by Rhinox »

So I asked a while back why slandaar looked at his interaction with blueberry but not with ETA. I didn't get an answer, so thats where I'll start.

---------------------------
tl;dr

Early potential distancing followed by slandaar/ETA actin like best buds up through #120. Slan left out his own analysis of his interactions with ETA because they don't show favorably for him = scummy. Slan/Alice interactions makes sense with slan-scum (see post #104 comment evaluation at the end of this post).

I have a lot more to look at I didn't even have time to finish all of slan/ETA but thats all I have time for right now. Maybe more tonight. Slan has brought up a couple good points about rainbow I'll want to look at - namely Rainbow mason hunting and #460 was going to be pretty much my same response as to why rainbowscum would kill tracy (but it also explains why slandaarscum would kill tracy if he thinkgs tracy could have been mason and welpobvtownanyways, so..).
----------------------------

Post 22-28 is an interesting little back and forth. Slandaar takes a couple snipes at ETA but doesn't vote him even though he says he would. ETA just responds to slandaar and moves on. Could be early distancing.

Post 36 - a notice of something ETA did, with a hmmmmm. Its interesting because Slandaar didn't really say anything about what it meant that ETA forgot who he voted, and thats pretty much the same thing he called ETA out for shortly before - pointing something out but not saying anything about it.

Post 49 - slandaar questions ETA about why ETA finds rainbow town. Could be coaching, ie maybe slandaar was hoping to lynch rainbow and didn't like being undermined by his scum partner? At that point slandaar was voting rainbow, but as he was questioning ETA why rainbow was town, slandaar moves his vote off of rainbow. Interesting.

Slandaar #62 is another interesting post if it is directed to ETA #61, but I can't be sure if that was the case or not. Assuming it is, Slandaar is calling ETA "caught scum" but still no vote.

But all the above doesn't make sense with Slandaar #90 - "I THINK Elmo is town but I am very soso and its based on loose ideas which might be wrong but hes not a good lynch today." - aka "protect my scumbuddy softly but be wishywashy enough I can bus later and/or don't look bad when he flips scum"

slandaar #95 to elmo 101 - tries to convince ETA to vote alice with him, ETA does, but has to think about it for a while first. IDK this seems almost too obvious to be scumpartners, but I think ETA's hesitation makes it plausible, like he could have realized he didn't want to blatently sheep his scum partner but slandaar kinda backed him into that corner so he had to.

elmo #107 - elmo helping along slandaar's case

Out of time for now - Up to post #120
-------------------------------------------------------------


Not slandaar/elmo but I got to slandaar #104 and realized what slandaar was talking about earlier. About how if he is scum and realized that alice #9 meant alice had a QT (even if its based on a wrong assumption that doesn't come up til later), slandaar is arguing that he doesn't bother making a case on alice because he would have just nked her and killed a mason, so he'd have never even bothered to make post #104 at all if he was scum.

Rereading now, I disagree. I think slandaarscum could still pursue alice as a suspect even if he thinks she's a mason for a couple reasons. First being somewhat a longshot, but its possible she could have gotten lynched before a claim (see: pizzalynch). Second being more likely, but if you can make a case on a mason maybe you get clues as to who the mason partners are ie if someone defends her. And getting alice to claim confirms his suspision that alice is a mason and takes away any uncertainty in the nk. I think the prospect of identifing 1 or more masons overrides any downside to slandaar looking somewhat worse for pressuring a mason. In that light #104 looks like role fishing -> "Scum qt before game starts -> someone told her who scum were in qt because she has a buddy who rolled scum previously (still working on which one)" -> leave out the mason explanation to see who jumps and says "hey what if she's a mason". I jumped, maybe slan initially thought I was a mason with alice idk. After that point the QT theory goes away because alice explained she was talking about a previous game so slan no longer has reason to believe alice has a qt thus no mason and thats why alice didn't die.
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Post Post #466 (ISO) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:23 am

Post by Slandaar »

Why would I analyse me scumhunting Elmo and moving the game out of RVS exactly?

How is it distancing when I say I think hes town? Its like you are suggesting I had something else to comment on at that stage of the game. I interacted with the first person I could.

Anyways I figured out whos scum yesterday Rhinox

Thinking about who is an easy lynch is a scum thoughtprocess.
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Post Post #467 (ISO) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:14 pm

Post by Alicewondering »

Huh, is all I have to say. I have thoughts, but I'm keeping them to myself for now. But please, the three of you do keep arguing.
I'll be V/LA until May 2nd.
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Post Post #468 (ISO) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:42 am

Post by Slandaar »

Rhinox wrote:So I asked a while back why slandaar looked at his interaction with blueberry but not with ETA. I didn't get an answer, so thats where I'll start.

How about you analyse the interactions between yourself and Elmo. Answer: Its a pointless venture.

Rhinox wrote:
Post 22-28 is an interesting little back and forth. Slandaar takes a couple snipes at ETA but doesn't vote him even though he says he would. ETA just responds to slandaar and moves on. Could be early distancing.

Could be just Town moving the game forwards

Who knows eh?
Rhinox wrote:
Post 36 - a notice of something ETA did, with a hmmmmm. Its interesting because Slandaar didn't really say anything about what it meant that ETA forgot who he voted, and thats pretty much the same thing he called ETA out for shortly before - pointing something out but not saying anything about it.

What is the point you are making here? what was your stance on Elmo ... ever? exactly. ps; I clearly said 'something' about the first thing in my conclusion post.
Rhinox wrote:
Post 49 - slandaar questions ETA about why ETA finds rainbow town. Could be coaching, ie maybe slandaar was hoping to lynch rainbow and didn't like being undermined by his scum partner? At that point slandaar was voting rainbow, but as he was questioning ETA why rainbow was town, slandaar moves his vote off of rainbow. Interesting.

Or maybe Slandaar thinks calling someone town because they post 'rules' is ridiculous.

What is your opinion? do you think Rainbow is town because he posted those rules?
Rhinox wrote:
Slandaar #62 is another interesting post if it is directed to ETA #61, but I can't be sure if that was the case or not. Assuming it is, Slandaar is calling ETA "caught scum" but still no vote.

Its @Tracey so no.
Rhinox wrote:
But all the above doesn't make sense with Slandaar #90 - "I THINK Elmo is town but I am very soso and its based on loose ideas which might be wrong but hes not a good lynch today." - aka "protect my scumbuddy softly but be wishywashy enough I can bus later and/or don't look bad when he flips scum"

Why doesn't it? I dont remember calling him scum. Isnt your issue that I didnt vote him? but why would I vote someone I thought was town?
Rhinox wrote:
slandaar #95 to elmo 101 - tries to convince ETA to vote alice with him, ETA does, but has to think about it for a while first. IDK this seems almost too obvious to be scumpartners, but I think ETA's hesitation makes it plausible, like he could have realized he didn't want to blatently sheep his scum partner but slandaar kinda backed him into that corner so he had to.

Yes, in case its not obvious I was sure Alice was scum and was testing to see if Elmo would vote her, he did, I thought Alice = scum, so Elmo basically went into my town slots.

Note how this ties into the idea I THINK hes town, I am still probing him untill he votes Alice at which point hes off my radar... oh wait what?! this makes so much sense!
Rhinox wrote:
elmo #107 - elmo helping along slandaar's case

And how is this indicative of my alignment?

Rhinox wrote:
Not slandaar/elmo but I got to slandaar #104 and realized what slandaar was talking about earlier. About how if he is scum and realized that alice #9 meant alice had a QT (even if its based on a wrong assumption that doesn't come up til later), slandaar is arguing that he doesn't bother making a case on alice because he would have just nked her and killed a mason, so he'd have never even bothered to make post #104 at all if he was scum.

Rereading now, I disagree. I think slandaarscum could still pursue alice as a suspect even if he thinks she's a mason for a couple reasons. First being somewhat a longshot, but its possible she could have gotten lynched before a claim (see: pizzalynch). Second being more likely, but if you can make a case on a mason maybe you get clues as to who the mason partners are ie if someone defends her. And getting alice to claim confirms his suspision that alice is a mason and takes away any uncertainty in the nk. I think the prospect of identifing 1 or more masons overrides any downside to slandaar looking somewhat worse for pressuring a mason. In that light #104 looks like role fishing -> "Scum qt before game starts -> someone told her who scum were in qt because she has a buddy who rolled scum previously (still working on which one)" -> leave out the mason explanation to see who jumps and says "hey what if she's a mason". I jumped, maybe slan initially thought I was a mason with alice idk. After that point the QT theory goes away because alice explained she was talking about a previous game so slan no longer has reason to believe alice has a qt thus no mason and thats why alice didn't die.

You focus on this too much and of course disagree with sound logic by using ridiculous stretching arguments. You're making it sound like I designed some masterplan to rule the galaxy. Fact is my qt theory was still around on day 2... and oh yes, I never did believe the idea someone thinks one has to be scum if they rolled town in 1 game. Do you? do you think if we are both town and we play again and I vote you saying 'Rhinox must be scum this time' you will think that makes sense over the idea the restarted game was counted?
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Post Post #469 (ISO) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:00 am

Post by Slandaar »

Rhinox wrote:hai guys *waves*
*looks up* gawd I'm going to get pizza and elmo confused all game.

Read through everything once, but I'm still getting caught up and letting it sink in. Looks like Rainbow and Tracey are likely town and pizza's giving me negative vibes and everyone else I don't have much of an opinion either way yet. So,

vote: pizza

Rhinox's Entrance into game, votes Pizza before the wagon really kicks into gear. Second vote on wagon, no real reasoning given. But it was early so its ok...

Spoiler:
Rhinox wrote:
Elmo TeH AzN wrote:Hi Rhinox.
What do you think of Alice's post though

Which one?


Slandaar #104: A little suspicious of slandaar for leaving out the other logical conclusion - alice being a mason with a mason partner who was scum in the previous roll of the game.


Regarding Rainbowdash rules:
Specifically 5 and 6 - I thought of a better idea. If there is a mason claim at L-1, the player who is forced to claim has to name one of their mason partners. If the claimed partner confirms, then its still 2 masons outed like the current rule 6 and no masons are outed. If the claimed partner does not confirm they are partners, then the player claiming is proven scum and it does not out a single mason in the process (since the claimed partner only has to confirm that they are not partners with the fake-claiming scum). Much better than the current rule 5.

Then he starts suspecting me and talks about rules. No scumhunting, doing nothing pretty much. Sat on Pizza wagon nicely.

Spoiler:
Rhinox wrote:Oh I should let you guys know - I'm on v/la starting tonight until monday morning. I let Hoopla know when I replaced in. I might be able to phone post tm, and I might be able to get on a laptop on saturday evening, but sunday is pretty much shot.

Rainbowdash wrote:
Rhinox wrote:Regarding Rainbowdash rules:
Specifically 5 and 6 - I thought of a better idea. If there is a mason claim at L-1, the player who is forced to claim has to name one of their mason partners. If the claimed partner confirms, then its still 2 masons outed like the current rule 6 and no masons are outed. If the claimed partner does not confirm they are partners, then the player claiming is proven scum and it does not out a single mason in the process (since the claimed partner only has to confirm that they are not partners with the fake-claiming scum). Much better than the current rule 5.


I dont want a mason to claim with a partner because rues 5/6 only are going to come into effect if scum counters a real mason, or scum fakeclaims mason, which there is no guarantee that they will. If the do counter then we can start having partners back up claims, untill then there is no point to give scum names of two masons without a for sure scum lynch.

Oh maybe I'm confused yet, because I read rules 5 and 6 as basically meaning if there is ever a mason claim, a real mason should counter claim a fake claim (rule 5), or confirm a real claim (rule 6). I was thinking that if a real mason had to claim in either case, it would be better for the player claiming to name a partner since that means in the case of rule 5 (scum fake claiming), no real mason would be outed.

I don't agree with Slandaar's scum read on alice. I read Alice's posts as leaning town. However I think he's on the right track with Kass. Kass's iso is horrible.

Furcow raped page 6 gawd. Most of which looks like nonsense. People are calling furcow a VI - I have no meta of him, so if I'm not supposed to take him seriously, let me know. I will say that I disagree with his Rainbow scum read. For anyone not paying attention, Rainbow became prob-town for pointing out Tracy is almost certainly town in this post - it was a very good catch, could have been very easily missed. I think scum-rainbow doesn't dig that deep to draw attention to that. Sure, there's always the possibility of doing it for town-cred, but up until then Tracy was pretty juicy lynchbait, and taking her lynch off the table like that hurts scum more than getting rainbow town cred helps. Scum only point out things like that that are already obvious for towncred, not things that make winning for them harder.

Talking about Rules then says 'up until then Tracey was pretty juicy lynchbait' to Elmo.
Town do not think 'Well x is town because they took y off the table who looked like lynchbait' more like 'x is town because they nearly conftowned y' huge difference but the fact Rhinox was thinking about Tracey being lynchbait shows hes scum.

Spoiler:
Rhinox wrote:
Elmo TeH AzN wrote:And about the post from Tracey you get townish vibes but I would ask you the question whats more dangerous to scum though? Conftown or Active players. And I really didn't see Tracey as juicy lynchbait either. But maybe Im just misreading a lot of things as I have been as of late.


I don't thing those are mutually exclusive options in this case. Tracey was scum the first draw, so she must be town now if she does not know the role were re-randomized. I think you're incinuating that rainbow pointing that out doesn't hurt scum because Tracy is less active and useless to town anyways and now a more active town player could maybe get mislynched (from some hyposcum Rainbow POV), but there's no reason scumRainbow couldn't have tried to get moreactivetownie mslynched anyways and left Tracy alone without pointing out her prob-townie-ness.

As for Tracy being lynchbait, meh when I first read the thread I saw she got a lot of suspicion and didn't seem to handle it that well so she kinda came across as an easy lynch regardless of alignment. I could see scum viewing her as a possible mislynch at some point in the game, which is no longer possible due to rainbow.

To directly answer your conftown vs active players question, active players aren't dangerous to scum if they're wrong, and sometimes active town lead the town to their demise. a group of conf-town is dangerous to scum regarless of how active they are. Eventually POE finds the scum.

Talking to Elmo about scum strat


Thats all of Rhinox's day 1 posts He clearly didnt care about who was lynched he never mentioned Pizza once after voting him, he sat comfortably on the easy Town wagon all day while talking about rules, how tracey was lynchbait and about scum strategy. Note how Pizzatown is juicy lynchbait but he never considers this because he knows it and wants the easy lynch.

He has fencesat today way too long, hes sat back too long, letting things heat up between rainbow and I, at least that was the idea, he hasnt actually made any useful points all day and has asked no questions to figure out who is scum. The questions he has asked are pointless as they have no follow up.

The End

VOTE: Rhinox
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Post Post #470 (ISO) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:33 pm

Post by Rhinox »

right so up til now you've been building this case against rainbow

saying there's virtually no chance you won't vote for him

but I didn't automatically go for it so now I'm scum because rainbow's more willing to vote me than I am him.

riiiiight. :igmeou:



Slandaar why did you analyze your interaction with blueberry? you say analyzing your own interactions is pointless but YOU'RE THE ONE WHO DID IT!! You're very cleverly not actually answering the question I'm actually asking you. I'm not asking you to analyze your interaction with ETA, I'm asking why you DID analyze your interaction with blue and not elmo. I think the answer is because you can argue your interactions with blueberry are favorable for you but your interactions with ETA make you look like his scum partner. You analyzed basically everything EXCEPT your interactions with elmo why was that? If you want my questions to have follow up you have to actually answer them.

I'm going to bed now I'll respond to the rest of your nonsense tomorrow.

And no matter how many times you say I'm "fencesitting" it doesn't make it significant, let alone true.
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Post Post #471 (ISO) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:41 pm

Post by Rhinox »

Since I still haven't gone to bed yet I'll hit a couple points tonight.

Slandaar wrote:Could be just Town moving the game forwards

Who knows eh?


I was speculating to see if your interaction made sense as scumpartner interaction. Yes there are multiple explanations notice I said "could be" not "definitely is". Actually I overlooked that it was page 1 then :?, I didn't pick up on that in the iso and remember I replaced in after that.

Slandaar wrote:What is the point you are making here? what was your stance on Elmo ... ever? exactly. ps; I clearly said 'something' about the first thing in my conclusion post.


What conclusion post? The point I was making is, well 2 things really. First is you did the same thing you just argued with ETA about - making a statement about something someone did without analyzing what it actually means/says about their alignment. Secondly is because you didn't say anything about it it seems kinda forced, like maybe you wanted to say something about ETA there but didn't want to be too forceful. Its the type of thing I've seen from some scum partners in the past where in the QT they're going on about how they need to say something about that bc they would as town but they go a little softer when they're scum. Idk, still just speculating here. Why was it significant that ETA forgot who he was voting?

Slandaar wrote:Or maybe Slandaar thinks calling someone town because they post 'rules' is ridiculous.

What is your opinion? do you think Rainbow is town because he posted those rules?


Thats fine I agree with your first sentence. Thats why I find it odd that while you're saying that, you're unvoting Rainbow. Its like you're saying "I don't think he's town but I'm going to unvote him anyways." Its an inconsistency, and its suspicious that it all lines up with ETA arguing rainbow is town. If you're going to standby the nonsense that I would be discussing scum strategy in the QT, then I'm going to standby that it looks an awful lot like ETA sent you a signal to not go after rainbow so you unvoted while making sure to say you didn't think rainbow was town.

Slandaar wrote:Why doesn't it? I dont remember calling him scum. Isnt your issue that I didnt vote him? but why would I vote someone I thought was town?

No reading your posts up before 90 I did not get the impression you thought ETA was town. No you didn't say you thought ETA was scum but its odd how ETA didn't warrant your vote during the whole 22-28 exchange while your grilling ETA, but your vote goes from rainbow to kass even though you didn't have a resultion really of your issues with ETA. It looks suspicious in the context of ETA is scum. You voted kass on the first question to her. You had a whole exchange with ETA and didn't vote. You unvoted rainbow after pointing out something that didn't make him town, right after ETA said rainbow was town. It all seems like too big of a coincidence. And this post 90 is exactly the wishywashy stance scum take towards their scum partners. All your other scum reads - alice, kass, kondi - all very solid scum reads by you, no wishywashy. But with ETA, all wishywashy. And he was scum.

Slandaar wrote:Yes, in case its not obvious I was sure Alice was scum and was testing to see if Elmo would vote her, he did, I thought Alice = scum, so Elmo basically went into my town slots.

Note how this ties into the idea I THINK hes town, I am still probing him untill he votes Alice at which point hes off my radar... oh wait what?! this makes so much sense!

So why is someone town if they agree with/sheep you?

Slandaar wrote:And how is this indicative of my alignment?

Its not, necessarily. I had to cut myself off kinda mid thought there. I wanted the context of the next couple posts but I was out of time. It just kinda fit with the whole best buds scumbuddies theme I was exploring to see if it made sense.

Slandaar wrote:You focus on this too much and of course disagree with sound logic by using ridiculous stretching arguments. You're making it sound like I designed some masterplan to rule the galaxy. Fact is my qt theory was still around on day 2... and oh yes, I never did believe the idea someone thinks one has to be scum if they rolled town in 1 game. Do you? do you think if we are both town and we play again and I vote you saying 'Rhinox must be scum this time' you will think that makes sense over the idea the restarted game was counted?

huh? I can't comprehend what you're saying here at 2AM. I'm only focusing on this at all because you said this is the reason your "conftown". What exactly is youtr QT theory and why did you believe it and why was it still around on D2? I'm not saying theres any master plan all I'm saying is that if scum is pressuring someone and then they get a tell and think they're a mason in this setup you're saying it doesn't make any logical sense to keep pressuring to try to make them claim or out their mason partners? The problem is you're calling yourself confirmed town on the grounds of of "perfect sound logic" when there are other equally logical explanations. Otherwise I'm confirmed town too for reasons you stated earlier - you said I as scum would have thought you were a mason who "knew" alice wasn't a mason, and I would have nked you, right? exact same thing, but I'm scum, and you're perfectly logical conf town?

Slandaar wrote:Rhinox's Entrance into game, votes Pizza before the wagon really kicks into gear. Second vote on wagon, no real reasoning given. But it was early so its ok...

I had reasons for voting pizza. I could go back and explain it, but its kinda pointless now. Your right I never got around to posting my reasons. I replaced in on Tuesday, I had already declared V/LA for that thursday to monday (see first line of my iso #2), which I let the mod know when I replaced in. So I had 2 days to just get into the game, and then I went on V/LA, and then pizza got hammered while I was on V/LA. So yes, I think being around for all of 2 days after replacing in just trying to get into the game and then being on V/LA pretty much nullifies all of your "the end" points in #469. I mean, you're making all the big deal out of my first 4 posts in the game, but you're going to criticize me about looking at your early game interaction with ETA when you were "just trying to move the game forward"? very hypocritical and shows you're not really looking at my motivations but just trying to argue a case.

Slandaar wrote:He has fencesat today way too long, hes sat back too long, letting things heat up between rainbow and I, at least that was the idea, he hasnt actually made any useful points all day and has asked no questions to figure out who is scum. The questions he has asked are pointless as they have no follow up.

Oh right fencesitting. Well I rode rainbow off as town all game for pretty much only pointing out the tracy thing. Probly not smart to do. I'm introspective of my play enough to realize that in lylo thats not a good enough reason. I'd like to have been able to finish my read objectively analyzing both of you but at this point especially after these last couple posts Its going to be hard to read you objectively, when I think you're posting a nonsense case against me after flipflopping on rainbow because it looks like I'm easier to lynch than rainbow.

By the way there's something you're missing with your little theory here. If it was my play to sit back and let you 2 argue, why the fuck would I leave alice alive? Me leaving alice alive means I should came out 100% trying to lynch you not even bothering to consider rainbow because there's no way I'm thinking alice is lynching her #3 suspect behing you and me. What sense would I have as scum to even consider rainbow at all, or "fencesit", if I'm the one who left alice alive. You wanna talk about logic, why don't you explain that one to me.
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Post Post #472 (ISO) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:38 pm

Post by Slandaar »

Rhinox I think you missed this bit;
Slandaar wrote:The End
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Post Post #473 (ISO) » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:02 pm

Post by Rhinox »

:roll:
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Post Post #474 (ISO) » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:15 am

Post by Slandaar »

Rhinox wrote: If it was my play to sit back and let you 2 argue, why the fuck would I leave alice alive?

Why would I?
Rhinox wrote:
slandaarscum would leave alice alive
-but alice flipped on her suspicions once already, when she said I was her top pick for the next day and the she didn't die that night. so you could be hoping to convince us you would never leave alice alive, knowing that there is a precedent for that kinda reasoning to be accepted.

Ah right. So you are trying to convince me you would never leave Alice alive exactly what you suggest I would do as scum. How very coincidental.
Rhinox wrote: Me leaving alice alive means I should came out 100% trying to lynch you not even bothering to consider rainbow because there's no way I'm thinking alice is lynching her #3 suspect behing you and me.

Rhinox says: Me leaving alice alive means I should came out 100% trying to lynch you not even bothering to consider rainbow because there's no way I'm thinking alice is lynching her #3

So why Rhinox think Sland leaves Alice alive?

I can use the same argument;
Me leaving alice alive means I should came out 100% trying to lynch Rhinox not even bothering to consider rainbow because there's no way I'm thinking alice is lynching her #3

But when I asked Rhinox earlier who left Alice alive he gave me 4 scenarios and didnt side with one, when using the reasoning above he should have sided with 'probably Rainbow'

Therefore Rhinox is scum.

Also note; When I say 'the end' he shows no further interest in posting content to convince hes town. He only posted today after being hounded, his posting is all reactionary to whats going on.
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