Worst Role Mafia - GAME OVER!

[Tierce]

Phillammon (5) - IceGuy, danakillsu, saulres, Amrun, Captain Haddock
Oversoul (4) - Tierce, Gimmicky Alt, Agent_Ireland, brizingre1
danakillsu (3) - RedPanda, knox, ManiacalLemon
Captain Haddock (1) -

Phillammon

brizingre1 (1) - Oversoul
ManiacalLemon (1) - BBmolla
Foxace36 (1) - theamatuer
theamatuer (1) - Foxace36
BBmolla (0) - none
Amrun (0) - none
saulres (0) - none
mafia-n00b (0) - none
PokerFace (0) - none
IceGuy (0) - none
ShadowGirl (0) - none
Gimmicky Alt (0) - none
RedPanda (0) - none
knox (0) - none
Agent_Ireland (0) - none
Tierce (0) - none

No Lynch (0) - none

Not voting (3) - ShadowGirl, PokerFace, mafia-n00b

THIS IS NOT NOT-TOWN TRYING TO SURVIVE, YOU DERPS.

PHILLAMMON LYNCH SEQUENCE ABORT

NOW

.

[saulres]

@Tierce: There's a difference though. I was town in -- what was it, Animal Rescue? I don't remember any more -- where I had an anti-town role. I didn't want to be lynched, but I understood that it might be best for town if I was. I didn't say "Yes, please, come lose your powers and investigate me to prove that I'm town" -- that would have been stupid.

In any case, here's what I have:

My original case against him
Then this, and why I think it's worst role enough as is. And the "Why does Phil need to die" portion of this.

The way things are going, though, is why I asked for a votecount. If he's not going to be a viable lynch, I know Oversoul is one good option but I'd like to know for sure what the other options are so I can do the research on them.

And with that pedit, it looks like... dana, if you can call 3 out of 11 a "viable" wagon...

This is ridiculous, we're two and a half days from deadline with eight people not placing any useful votes (although BBMolla gets a pass on that due to his mistake). I'd call that plenty of time in a normal game, but with the post frequency of some of these players we need them to act soon.

[theamatuer]

vote: oversoul

[ShadowGirl]

Since I don't think that there is necessarily time to run you up to L-1, decide whether to modkill you and then make another wagon, I'll just speed up the process and say that I believe you are town and this current moment in time I do not have the intention of modkilling you. And now for some wagon analysis...

Votecount 1.07

Guy_Named_Riggs (12) -

saulres

,

Amrun

, Phillammon, Moneybags, Oversoul, BBmolla, knox,

IceGuy

, Gimmicky Alt,

danakillsu

,

Captain Haddock

, numberQ

Votecount 2.10

Phillammon (5) - IceGuy, danakillsu, saulres, Amrun, Captain Haddock

Oh, look, every single person on Phil's wagon (I am considering him town at this current moment), was on GNR's wagon (newsflash in case you forgot: flipped town.)

I do have it noted that Oversoul was on GNR's wagon as well.

[Captain Haddock]

I don't see how anyone has read Phil as town, he's always looked iffy to me and I can give non gut related reasons but Agent Ireland is explaining his Oversoul vote first.

Well. I guess that a flip would be useful to the town, even if it is a town flip. Much as it would solve arguments, I think that saying yes now would be a breach of rule 2 in that I wouldn't be playing to win if I *requested* being turned into a survivor and killed. So I guess no, but if it gets to L-1, I think taking a hit for the town would be in order, even if it would cause me to abruptly stop being town. So my answer is no, but

Modkill me if I hit L-1

. That way you can use the lynch to find the real scum.

That looks like a third party softclaim, especially survivor or serial killer. Or good play... Even if he is "just" a survivor, his survival can let the scum hammer in lylo and we have atleast 2 kills so we should kill him anyway. Sorry Phil.

[Tierce]

I know what you have, saul. And I think it does not make him scum, a survivor, a cult recruiter or anything else of that kind. He's playing very transparently, and actions and motivations definitely look like they are coming from town. Asking for an investigative role to go to him is null, he is not a PGO, and he is new to forum mafia. Know who you're playing with.

And yes, the way some people are being useless is ridiculous, but we can't do anything about it.

The people who are voting Phil really have to hop off that and vote for someone else, though.

Oh, and btw: I'd rather have a no-lynch than a Phil lynch.

So get moving.

[Tierce]

Jesus effing Christ, Greypatch, if you are town I...
Why can't I ever have nice things like a gun or something.

BB, I need you. BATCAVE.

[ShadowGirl]

I don't see how anyone has read Phil as town, he's always looked iffy to me and I can give non gut related reasons but Agent Ireland is explaining his Oversoul vote first.

Well. I guess that a flip would be useful to the town, even if it is a town flip. Much as it would solve arguments, I think that saying yes now would be a breach of rule 2 in that I wouldn't be playing to win if I *requested* being turned into a survivor and killed. So I guess no, but if it gets to L-1, I think taking a hit for the town would be in order, even if it would cause me to abruptly stop being town. So my answer is no, but

Modkill me if I hit L-1

. That way you can use the lynch to find the real scum.

That looks like a third party softclaim, especially survivor or serial killer. Or good play... Even if he is "just" a survivor, his survival can let the scum hammer in lylo and we have atleast

2 kills

so we should kill him anyway. Sorry Phil.

We have at least two kills? Who is in possession of the second?

And please, break it down how this is a soft claim or good play where I am outright telling him I will kill him without any other considerations.

[Phillammon]

Wait a sec: You don't know whether I'm town or not? Interesting, but I guess besides the point. I'd agree with oversoul to avoid a no lynch if necessary, but I honestly have no idea where scum may be right now. I feel there is probably scum on my wagon, but not sure where. Probably the quieter members, so Haddock, and Ice, if I had to guess, but I guess I had been acting incredibly badly.

PEdit: Haddock: I don't see how that would be a softclaim. Especially when I have already fullclaimed my entire role. I feel that transparent play is the best way to play if you're getting used to a new medium, and sometimes even when you know what you're doing.

PEdit 2: What she said.

[ShadowGirl]

To put it out there, I'm fine with voting any of five people I listed being on Phil's wagon and Oversoul.

Vote analysis on him:

VOTE: 2birds1stone

In consideration that we know now that 2birds was town, going for a proclaimed guilty (that scum would know to be false) is an immensely easy mislynch for them.

VOTE: 2birds1stone

Still sticking with that easy mislynch.

VOTE: Saul

I am going to call this a fabricated distancing vote, mostly because in ye massive wall 'o text before there's barely mention of Saul, and there's no explanation given with this post.

VOTE: GNR

Two posts later, he votes GNR, because hey, let's get that wagon going!

VOTE: BBmolla

At this moment, the speculation of BB's role and the fact that it was believed that it would be a scum role was high at this point, so this is the next easiest mislynch. I'd like to note that this entire post focuses explicitly on the fact that his role is what makes him scum and less so on his actual play, which I think is the most wily thing to do.

VOTE: brizingre1

From what I can see, this was a vote based on lurkiness, and I think the lone vote (that will not amount to nothing) is a good ploy to stay off the wagon that everyone is piling onto (Phil's), although from his more recent posts it seems he has the intention to vote him because of his role.

Basically, I think it's a cop out and bullshit to be voting someone solely for their role, because let's face it, most of these roles give the shadow of doubt that any of them could be held by scum.

Don't say I never did anything for you guys.

[mafia-n00b]

knox, what do you think of oversoul?

[Tierce]

To put it out there, I'm fine with voting any of five people I listed being on Phil's wagon and Oversoul.

Vote analysis on him:

VOTE: 2birds1stone

In consideration that we know now that 2birds was town, going for a proclaimed guilty (that scum would know to be false) is an immensely easy mislynch for them.

VOTE: 2birds1stone

Still sticking with that easy mislynch.

VOTE: Saul

I am going to call this a fabricated distancing vote, mostly because in ye massive wall 'o text before there's barely mention of Saul, and there's no explanation given with this post.

VOTE: GNR

Two posts later, he votes GNR, because hey, let's get that wagon going!

VOTE: BBmolla

At this moment, the speculation of BB's role and the fact that it was believed that it would be a scum role was high at this point, so this is the next easiest mislynch. I'd like to note that this entire post focuses explicitly on the fact that his role is what makes him scum and less so on his actual play, which I think is the most wily thing to do.

VOTE: brizingre1

From what I can see, this was a vote based on lurkiness, and I think the lone vote (that will not amount to nothing) is a good ploy to stay off the wagon that everyone is piling onto (Phil's), although from his more recent posts it seems he has the intention to vote him because of his role.

Basically, I think it's a cop out and bullshit to be voting someone solely for their role, because let's face it, most of these roles give the shadow of doubt that any of them could be held by scum.

Don't say I never did anything for you guys.

A lovely post, but you forgot to vote.

[IceGuy]

Late comment: huh, Pokerface, we'd already established between the two of us (and I'd stated in thread) that BB isn't going to recruit a second player; the odds of getting scum (with access to our QT, to boot) are not worth the relatively low odds of recruiting more town

Wait a minute. Whom of you is confirmed to the other to be town?

I know what you have, saul. And I think it does not make him scum, a survivor, a cult recruiter or anything else of that kind. He's playing very transparently, and actions and motivations definitely look like they are coming from town.

Asking for an investigative role to go to him is null,

he is not a PGO, and he is new to forum mafia. Know who you're playing with.

I didn't actually notice it at first, but on re-read...he did that.

Why the fuck is asking for an investigative role to visit him null when he turns everybody who visits him into green goo, vanillizing them?

Look, this is the situation: Phil is, even if he is town, deadweight at best and anti-town at worst. We can't investigate or JK him, because that means we lose that PR. If scum has a redirector or something along those lines, they can make us lose PRs.

He needs to die. All other players that have a wagon on them are either just deadweight (like Agent_Ireland or that one lurker) or pretty obviously town (Oversoul).

@ShadowGirl: Your Oversoul case isn't one. Town shows similar voting behavior.

[Tierce]

knox, what do you think of oversoul?

Hmm-hm.

Why are you making so many questions and avoid providing an opinion of your own?

Why aren't you voting?

[Captain Haddock]

I don't see how anyone has read Phil as town, he's always looked iffy to me and I can give non gut related reasons but Agent Ireland is explaining his Oversoul vote first.

Well. I guess that a flip would be useful to the town, even if it is a town flip. Much as it would solve arguments, I think that saying yes now would be a breach of rule 2 in that I wouldn't be playing to win if I *requested* being turned into a survivor and killed. So I guess no, but if it gets to L-1, I think taking a hit for the town would be in order, even if it would cause me to abruptly stop being town. So my answer is no, but

Modkill me if I hit L-1

. That way you can use the lynch to find the real scum.

That looks like a third party softclaim, especially survivor or serial killer. Or good play... Even if he is "just" a survivor, his survival can let the scum hammer in lylo and we have atleast

2 kills

so we should kill him anyway. Sorry Phil.

We have at least two kills? Who is in possession of the second?

And please, break it down how this is a soft claim or good play where I am outright telling him I will kill him without any other considerations.

I think so, but 3 is more likely if you count vanishing someone. You, I'm sure you're town and you definately can't be scum with you're role. Even if you were third party your modkill would be like a second lynch.

If he is a 3rd party he will(most likely) lose wether he's lynched or modkilled, so he would prefer he was modkilled if he's going to die(so whoever else dies today could win). People were saying he shouldn't die because "he's town or third party" and the bolded makes him look third party, that and being reverse psychology is why that would be good play if it was delibarate.

Wait a sec: You don't know whether I'm town or not? Interesting, but I guess besides the point. I'd agree with oversoul to avoid a no lynch if necessary, but I honestly have no idea where scum may be right now. I feel there is probably scum on my wagon, but not sure where. Probably the quieter members, so Haddock, and Ice, if I had to guess, but I guess I had been acting incredibly badly.

PEdit: Haddock: I don't see how that would be a softclaim. Especially when I have already fullclaimed my entire role. I feel that transparent play is the best way to play if you're getting used to a new medium, and sometimes even when you know what you're doing.

If you 'have no idea where scum may be right now', who were those scumreads you were talking about?

A softclaim isn't a claim, it's a statement that hints that you're something. According to how Nobody Special used it it can be similar to a scumtell and not an actual hint.

[Tierce]

Late comment: huh, Pokerface, we'd already established between the two of us (and I'd stated in thread) that BB isn't going to recruit a second player; the odds of getting scum (with access to our QT, to boot) are not worth the relatively low odds of recruiting more town

Wait a minute. Whom of you is confirmed to the other to be town?

Neither. Doesn't change things, I have a townread on him, which means I don't believe the info on our QT is being shared elsewhere.

I know what you have, saul. And I think it does not make him scum, a survivor, a cult recruiter or anything else of that kind. He's playing very transparently, and actions and motivations definitely look like they are coming from town.

Asking for an investigative role to go to him is null,

he is not a PGO, and he is new to forum mafia. Know who you're playing with.

I didn't actually notice it at first, but on re-read...he did that.

Why the fuck is asking for an investigative role to visit him null when he turns everybody who visits him into green goo, vanillizing them?

Look, this is the situation: Phil is, even if he is town, deadweight at best and anti-town at worst. We can't investigate or JK him, because that means we lose that PR. If scum has a redirector or something along those lines, they can make us lose PRs.

He needs to die. All other players that have a wagon on them are either just deadweight (like Agent_Ireland or that one lurker) or pretty obviously town (Oversoul).

Why is Oversoul town?

And yes, it's null. You can WIFOM the hell out of it, but the fact is that there is no scum motivation to ask for an investigation. A goo'd cop could still turn up a guilty on him. There is no scum motivation for asking in-thread to be investigated.

We are going down the same lane you people did with 2birds1stone, who was asking to be vigged/investigated instead of lynched. You aren't bothering to scumhunt and are relying on claims to indicate alignment in a

Worst Role

game, for pity's sake. It's sad.

[Tierce]

K, Greypatch/Haddock can be town. But seriously, the level of derp... Sigh.

[mafia-n00b]

knox, what do you think of oversoul?

Hmm-hm.

Why are you making so many questions and avoid providing an opinion of your own?

Why aren't you voting?

I'm not voting because I no longer have confidence in the Phil wagon. I'm considering voting oversoul based on SG's reasoning and a review of Oversoul in ISO. I've got a town read on knox, so I'm looking for other opinions.

[ShadowGirl]

Basically, I think it's a cop out and bullshit to be voting someone solely for their role, because let's face it, most of these roles give the shadow of doubt that any of them could be held by scum.

I just realized this sentence is going to be slightly ironic for me in the near future, anyway...

A lovely post, but you forgot to vote.

For my own reasons, I have slightly more faith that Dana is scum (although I'd need to do an ISO), but I see that it's more likely that Oversoul will be the lynch, so:

Vote: Oversoul

.

Look, this is the situation: Phil is, even if he is town, deadweight at best and anti-town at worst. We can't investigate or JK him, because that means we lose that PR. If scum has a redirector or something along those lines, they can make us lose PRs.

He needs to die. All other players that have a wagon on them are either just deadweight (like Agent_Ireland or that one lurker) or pretty obviously town (Oversoul).

@ShadowGirl: Your Oversoul case isn't one. Town shows similar voting behavior.

Personally, I'd rather lynch scum right now so I don't have to worry about getting to LyLo and thinking about who is not a good role to have around.

If

scum has a redirector, yes, his role is not optimal, but unless you have evidence they do, I'm not going to lynch a town player.

Okay, so you're saying that if I can't consider someone scum on their poor voting and logic, then how can I weed them out?

@Captain Haddock:
Ah, okay, so the lynch is the second kill? (And whatever the vanishing thing is, is the third? I wouldn't be surprised if it was a similar smoke bomb type ability like Agent_Ireland had).

I will say fair enough on your reasoning for the psychology behind that he would lose either way, although I'm not sure the mentality that he would care if there was an actual lynch holds through. At this current moment, however, I believe he is town.

K, Greypatch/Haddock can be town. But seriously, the level of derp... Sigh.

I'm not betting on it, but one scum at a time.

[saulres]

Vanishing doesn't strike me as a scum offensive ability. I did find this though.

[Tierce]

Town bin:
BBmolla
Captain Haddock
Foxace36/Chimera
Gimmicky Alt
Phillammon
RedPanda
ShadowGirl
theamatuer/Candy Corn Vampire


ShadowGirl: Townread on Haddock is due to his motivations. Look at how he thinks a softclaim can be interpreted as a scumtell. It's wrong, and it makes no sense, but the intention is

right

. It's coming from town. Town that I really don't want to have around making decisions in LyLo, but I don't have the luxury of making decisions about that.


saul: Are you talking about mcqueen? Unlikely that it was that.

One thing is for sure: if he is not dead and comes back to the game, it's likely him or me. -_-

[RedPanda]

I don't really think Phil is scum

I'll explain why when I get the chance to later today

The people I was waiting for have commented and some of my reads have changed

I'll wait for this.

If it sucks.

[ShadowGirl]

Vanishing doesn't strike me as a scum offensive ability. I did find this though.

I don't see edited posts when I checked his ISO, although it seems vague as to whether the post would actually be edited... It's a possibility, I suppose.

@Tierce: Or he could still be trying to push a wagon on a townie until the bitter end so his scum buddy doesn't get lynched? (This isn't me being cynical, I don't mean any disrespect). I will follow him closely (and as I've said before, need to do an ISO), but for the moment he's in my scum bin, as it were.

[Tierce]

He could. I'm not particularly impressed with his play and haven't analyzed it very closely, so *shrug*. Not the lynch for today, at any rate.

(Also feel free to be cynical and disrespectful, this is a mafia game after all. )

[ShadowGirl]

He could. I'm not particularly impressed with his play and haven't analyzed it very closely, so *shrug*. Not the lynch for today, at any rate.

(Also feel free to be cynical and disrespectful, this is a mafia game after all. )

Thy Goddess wishes that people would treat others like they would like to be treated. (Mostly, I'm a nice person, unless someone insults me first... aka mcqueen, if I could smite you...)

VOTE: brizingre1

Just realized this vote is worse than I thought, or certainly the fact it's still lingering. Brizingre's claim is more or less the easiest one to confirm (hey, if a town player dies during the night and he's still alive? well, he's a liar!), so considering you've posted since he's made that claim, why are you still voting him?