Mini 1310: I Got My Eye On You Mafia (Game Over!)

[iStark]

Nope, I claimed my N1 results before any one said anything including you about your visit to Korlash.

Go over it again.

[iStark]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3969200

This is where I called you out.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3958660
This is where I soft claimed.

Any one who could do 1+1 could figure out I was tracker.

[Om of the Nom]

Last night I investigated Korlash and recieved "Not guilty". I think I may have seen Amrun around too, probably using some "Cop" ability. There wasn't much else around, except there appeared to be an ID card reading Vanilla.

If I'm tracker, Om visited Korlash last night.
If I'm cop V2v was found not guilty.

@Korlash, what are those other points that are making her claim bogus?

[Om of the Nom]

And regardless of whether you are tracker or not, you are confirmed mafia.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: iStark

I think we probably should let Feirei actually post some content today before hanging iScum.

--

I always assume scum have daytalk besides the newbies. Are you suggesting it's more probable they don't?

Why do you assume this? Daytalk is hardly standard on site and actually is viewed as a fairly powerful tool.

--

iStark’s Post 869 looks very much like something he and his partner spent time putting together overnight in their QT. I’ll just point out simply why he’s scum with two quotes from today –

Again, trying to create doubts about our own confirmed players and PR's, real pro-scum play MoI.

Here he is trying to say I’m scum for casting doubts on our confirmed Players and Town PowerRoles. Specifically Om of the Nom.

All I can say to this if you're serious(?) is that,
1.You're either Mafia role cop trying to get miss-lynch on me by posing as town role-cop.
2.Or your investigation results are corrupt/misguided.

Suddenly when Om has a guilty on him what’s the first line of thought out of iStark’s mouth? Om is Scum!

Cognitive Dissonance in full force. I’m scum for questioning Om. But wham … suddenly Om is questionable.

@iStark

– Here’s the thing – you’ve been counterclaimed on being a Town Tracker by two separate players – Om (with a Guilty) and myself (with conflicting Roles and busting your fake action). Are you suggesting we both are scum?

Also please specify if your 'Night actions' specify who you are Tracking in the PM from Voided or not.

[iStark]

Last night I investigated Korlash and recieved "Not guilty". I think I may have seen Amrun around too, probably using some "Cop" ability. There wasn't much else around, except there appeared to be an ID card reading Vanilla.

If I'm tracker, Om visited Korlash last night.
If I'm cop V2v was found not guilty.

@Korlash, what are those other points that are making her claim bogus?

I don't think you understood me. I'm saying I called you out on Amrun vs Korlash since I knew that you visited him and that hypo-claim of yours was after that. I wanted you to put end to argument if you were town and if not you were scum.
Which was what put us in good position on D2 tbh, you can go read that entire thing again if you want to. You weren't saying anything beyond ''I'm around but I don't have much to say'' when you actually knew Amrum was telling truth about korlash.
And this was well before your hypo-claim.

And regardless of whether you are tracker or not, you are confirmed mafia.

Implying with two more then likely scum PR's alive your results can't be manipulated? lol

--

VOTE: iStark


iStark’s Post 869 looks very much like something he and his partner spent time putting together overnight in their QT. I’ll just point out simply why he’s scum with two quotes from today –

Again, trying to create doubts about our own confirmed players and PR's, real pro-scum play MoI.

1.

Here he is trying to say I’m scum for casting doubts on our confirmed Players and Town PowerRoles. Specifically Om of the Nom.

All I can say to this if you're serious(?) is that,
1.You're either Mafia role cop trying to get miss-lynch on me by posing as town role-cop.
2.Or your investigation results are corrupt/misguided.

2.

Suddenly when Om has a guilty on him what’s the first line of thought out of iStark’s mouth? Om is Scum!

Cognitive Dissonance in full force. I’m scum for questioning Om. But wham … suddenly Om is questionable.

@iStark

– Here’s the thing – you’ve been counterclaimed on being a Town Tracker by two separate players – Om (with a Guilty) and myself (with conflicting Roles and busting your fake action). Are you suggesting we both are scum?

Also please specify if your 'Night actions' specify who you are Tracking in the PM from Voided or not.

1.

Yes, you're trying to cast doubts not only against Om and Korlash when he was alive, you also parroted how it's right way to lynch conformed towns at the later stages of the game. It is not scum exclusive line but in context of this game it is highly likely to be mentioned by only scum.

2.

I derived possibilities as to why he got results which he did, his claim about how Korlash was killed for framing him is not sitting well with me either. To be frank, I'm surprised he is alive considering it's pretty obvious from D3 that we don't have protector role.
That mean his actions were predicted and manipulated or he is scum. And obviously any sane person will question that.
You think Om is town or scum?

The thing is I haven't actually been counterclaimed by anything definite.
If you and Rban were scum, obviously you would know what he did in nights and it' optimum scum tactic to make most out of his partner lynch. which you did by making your player slot confirmed townie at the end of the day in most peoples eyes, plus you manged to create confusion in towns mind.
Why did you pick Rban to follow when he was likely to be tracked by other PR's?
As far as Om is concerned if he wasn't diverted or manipulated he is scum.

Where are your night actions? you should think about giving them first rather then asking mine when I said it clearly that I haven't yet gotten reply from Void.
Most likely I was blocked.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yes, you're trying to cast doubts not only against Om and Korlash when he was alive, you also parroted how it's right way to lynch conformed towns at the later stages of the game.

It is not scum exclusive line

but in context of this game it is highly likely to be mentioned by only scum.

If this was truly what you thought you would have brought it up yesterday as I was making said ‘offending’ posts. But you didn’t. In fact you thought nothing about my potential scumminess at all until I busted you shows this is just manufactured ‘scum-hunting’.

But the bolded further shows this. You explicitly acknowledge that the posts you are trying to portray as scummy in fact can come from Town.

I derived possibilities as to why he got results which he did, his claim about how Korlash was killed for framing him is not sitting well with me either. To be frank, I'm surprised he is alive considering it's pretty obvious from D3 that we don't have protector role.

So you basically are admitting that you are now casting doubt on him. Which is exactly what you claimed was scummy.

That mean his actions were predicted and manipulated or he is scum. And obviously any sane person will question that.
You think Om is town or scum?

Oh so his actions are manipulated by scum, huh? We’ll deal with the implications of this later.

The thing is I haven't actually been counterclaimed by anything definite.

Oh, really? Why then did you say I agree with this though, there is no room for both of those roles in town ranks. . That post says that you think you have been counter-claimed in a way that we both can’t be Town.

If you and Rban were scum, obviously you would know what he did in nights and it' optimum scum tactic to make most out of his partner lynch. which you did by making your player slot confirmed townie at the end of the day in most peoples eyes, plus you manged to create confusion in towns mind.

And if I was scum with Rban why would I choose to specifically at the same time I counter-claimed him choose to also counter-claim you if you were Town? Because your Town flip would assure my death. This post is a classic ‘Appeal To Fear’.

Why did you pick Rban to follow when he was likely to be tracked by other PR's?

I picked him based on my quick re-read of the flip that occurred before I replaced in that Night and his vote placement and manner in which he voted.

Here’s a question – why did you track him if you thought he was likely the target of other investigative roles?

Where are your night actions? you should think about giving them first rather then asking mine when I said it clearly that I haven't yet gotten reply from Void.

I have a result from last Night. I’m waiting for input from said player before I reveal it. Worried I nailed your scum partner making the Night-kill last night?

As far as Om is concerned if he wasn't diverted or manipulated he is scum.
Most likely I was blocked.

And now we get to the “iStark’s discussions with manipulation” part of the thread.

1. Like rban (who was a Goon) you are suddenly claiming to be role-blocked.
2. You are simultaneously saying that Om’s investigation was diverted or manipulated.

Here’s the upshot from this – you are claiming that Mafia has a Roleblocker type (either RB or Jailkeeper) and either a Redirector-type or a Tailor / Framer type.

Om can rule out the Redirector quite simply –

@Om

– did your PM result indicate that your investigation target was specifically iStark?

Once Om gets back to us we can further discuss this line of thinking.

@iStark

– you never confirmed whether you specifically had the name of your investigation choice in your PM giving your results. Why is that?

[iStark]

Yes, you're trying to cast doubts not only against Om and Korlash when he was alive, you also parroted how it's right way to lynch conformed towns at the later stages of the game.

It is not scum exclusive line

but in context of this game it is highly likely to be mentioned by only scum.

1

.If this was truly what you thought you would have brought it up yesterday as I was making said ‘offending’ posts. But you didn’t. In fact you thought nothing about my potential scumminess at all until I busted you shows this is just manufactured ‘scum-hunting’.

But the bolded further shows this. You explicitly acknowledge that the posts you are trying to portray as scummy in fact can come from Town.

I derived possibilities as to why he got results which he did, his claim about how Korlash was killed for framing him is not sitting well with me either. To be frank, I'm surprised he is alive considering it's pretty obvious from D3 that we don't have protector role.

2

.So you basically are admitting that you are now casting doubt on him. Which is exactly what you claimed was scummy.

That mean his actions were predicted and manipulated or he is scum. And obviously any sane person will question that.
You think Om is town or scum?

3.

Oh so his actions are manipulated by scum, huh? We’ll deal with the implications of this later.

The thing is I haven't actually been counterclaimed by anything definite.

4

.Oh, really? Why then did you say I agree with this though, there is no room for both of those roles in town ranks. . That post says that you think you have been counter-claimed in a way that we both can’t be Town.

If you and Rban were scum, obviously you would know what he did in nights and it' optimum scum tactic to make most out of his partner lynch. which you did by making your player slot confirmed townie at the end of the day in most peoples eyes, plus you manged to create confusion in towns mind.

5.

And if I was scum with Rban why would I choose to specifically at the same time I counter-claimed him choose to also counter-claim you if you were Town? Because your Town flip would assure my death. This post is a classic ‘Appeal To Fear’.

Why did you pick Rban to follow when he was likely to be tracked by other PR's?

6.

I picked him based on my quick re-read of the flip that occurred before I replaced in that Night and his vote placement and manner in which he voted.

Here’s a question – why did you track him if you thought he was likely the target of other investigative roles?

Where are your night actions? you should think about giving them first rather then asking mine when I said it clearly that I haven't yet gotten reply from Void.

7.

I have a result from last Night. I’m waiting for input from said player before I reveal it. Worried I nailed your scum partner making the Night-kill last night?

As far as Om is concerned if he wasn't diverted or manipulated he is scum.
Most likely I was blocked.

8.

And now we get to the “iStark’s discussions with manipulation” part of the thread.

1. Like rban (who was a Goon) you are suddenly claiming to be role-blocked.
2. You are simultaneously saying that Om’s investigation was diverted or manipulated.

Here’s the upshot from this – you are claiming that Mafia has a Roleblocker type (either RB or Jailkeeper) and either a Redirector-type or a Tailor / Framer type.

Om can rule out the Redirector quite simply –

@Om

– did your PM result indicate that your investigation target was specifically iStark?

Once Om gets back to us we can further discuss this line of thinking.

@iStark

– you never confirmed whether you specifically had the name of your investigation choice in your PM giving your results. Why is that?

1.

Yes, that's what I think, and sorry to burst your balloon but I never got chance to post after that post of yours when you said this.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3991322
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3991345
About the bolded part thing:I said it's not scum exclusive but in context of this game it's more likely to come from scum.

2.

There is difference between what you did and what I did in Om case, you casted doubt when he was confirmed and accused of him by using WIFOM argument like ''No one actually stopped the game since mod committed mistake?''
I'm doubting him since his behavior right now is that of scum or short sighted town.

3.

Sure.

4.

Yes, really. I said there isn't room for both of this roles in this game as there are to many PR's and that tilt's balance greatly in Towns favor. Hence me believing you're lying.

5.

I already answered this even before you asking. It's pro-scum move to make most of his partner's buss.
And if we lynch another town PR today then with 2 scum's remaining + one Miller claim+One claimed Cop and knowing your ability to turn anything into valid argument could easily make odds in your favor.
So, my flip as town wouldn't do you much damage on the other hand town losing one more almost confirmed(According to most) PR would damage town's great deal. As my result's would come under scrutiny & spread confusion.

6.

People were already showing suspicions of him already and it would make sense thinking that with two Cop's and one soft claimed tracker around one of them would investigate him.
Also, Lol. if you're serious about that question I'm at lose of words.
I never tracked Rban down, I tracked Lopsy (Your player slot) on N2 and that's what you based your argument about me being scum.
How could you forget that -.-

7.

Obviously no, since I'm not scum and I'm interested to hear that result of yours as you made excuse of Lopsy flaking to give your N1 results. (Which obviously you don't have)
Nothing more.

8.

I'm telling truth about me not getting my results, I'm not sure why but most likely role-block since that's the only condition under which I don't get any result's.
About Om's results, That's one of the two possibilities with other one being him is scum alongside you.
But I would like to hear answer for that from Om as well.

I'll give both name of my target and result's when I get reply from Void. you'll have to wait for it.

[ActionDan]

I'll re-read Friday - Saturday.

Um. I would prefer to be cautious today and have a contingency plan for tomorrow. Om, cool down. If you skimmed the last MotK game you'd realize that arrogance and celebrating victory too fast led to town's defeat. settle yourself down and think a bit.

Istark and MOI, can you tell us if your action flavor resembles Amrun's and Om's (try not to get modkilled)?

Also, I'd love to speculate scum roles today because Om didn't die. And I don't understand why. Literally I was 100% sure Om was a dead duck.

Also with the claimed roles so far scum prolly don't have a RBer... Om wasn't Rbed. They may have a redirecter/busdriver though. Godfather still likely imo.

[Luckyjt]

The fact the Om is not dead is bothering me too.

Now Istark, I am believing you are scum at the moment and if this is true then Om is most definitely town. I doubt both MOI and Om are lying on their results on you. I doubt there is more than 4 mafia and 2 risking themselves like this is not likely considering we still have quite a lot of players alive. Now if you flip town with the lynch Om is dead because it could be very easy that he didnt actually investigate you and took advantage of what MOI said yesterday about your claim being fake. MOi is harder to tell because we did lynch scum yesterday because of him.


Now I wont be placing my vote yet in order to allow others to post their thoughts.

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 4.1:

iStark - Om of the Nom, MagnaofIllusion

Not voting - iStark, Rainbowdash, Feirei, ActionDan, luckyjt

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch and to no-lynch

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-05-17 04:16:25), or by 3:10 AM on May 17th, 2012

MoI is LA on weekends.

[Rainbowdash]

Can I request we dont lynch until at least Tuesday? I have a defense of my final design project I need to graduate Saturday, and a couple other bigger things that are going to prevent me from getting enough time to read through this as much as I need to after that flip.

Can somepony tabulate all results though so far by everypony who has claimed each night?

[Feirei]

Not gonna bother with voting yet, as I want to see everyone post too.

Not surprised at the guilty on iStark. His reaction is scummy.

[iStark]

I'll re-read Friday - Saturday.

Um. I would prefer to be cautious today and have a contingency plan for tomorrow. Om, cool down. If you skimmed the last MotK game you'd realize that arrogance and celebrating victory too fast led to town's defeat. settle yourself down and think a bit.

Istark and MOI, can you tell us if your action flavor resembles Amrun's and Om's (try not to get modkilled)?

Also, I'd love to speculate scum roles today because Om didn't die. And I don't understand why. Literally I was 100% sure Om was a dead duck.

Also with the claimed roles so far scum prolly don't have a RBer... Om wasn't Rbed. They may have a redirecter/busdriver though. Godfather still likely imo.

I didn't get any flavor with my result PM's.

Also, I got my results for last nights action ''MoI visited Korlash''
There wasn't any flavor to add to this just like the two results before.

If Om was being redirected/framed he wont be getting Rbed of course -.-

The fact the Om is not dead is bothering me too.

Now Istark, I am believing you are scum at the moment and if this is true then Om is most definitely town. I doubt both MOI and Om are lying on their results on you. I doubt there is more than 4 mafia and 2 risking themselves like this is not likely considering we still have quite a lot of players alive. Now if you flip town with the lynch Om is dead because it could be very easy that he didnt actually investigate you and took advantage of what MOI said yesterday about your claim being fake. MOi is harder to tell because we did lynch scum yesterday because of him.


Now I wont be placing my vote yet in order to allow others to post their thoughts.

I don't think you're reading the thread or you're understanding the argument at all.
No one said there will be 4 scum.
If you lynch me today you lose one PR and if Om is town PR being redirected you will lose other PR tomorrow.
Ever heard of the scum bussing their partner thing? What MoI did yesterday was that and framed town PR's using that to cause confusion about them.
This is not one of those dumb mafia theme's you play on MG to do the type of math just you did, be careful with your posts if you want your voice to be heard.

Can I request we dont lynch until at least Tuesday? I have a defense of my final design project I need to graduate Saturday, and a couple other bigger things that are going to prevent me from getting enough time to read through this as much as I need to after that flip.

Can somepony tabulate all results though so far by everypony who has claimed each night?

Don't have time to collect other peoples results. So, I'll do mine.
N1 = Om visited Korlash.
N2 = Lopsy did nothing.
N3 = MoI visited Korlash.

I'm assuming that I was redirected or framed on N2.
Also, I didn't get any flavor.
If anyone has any doubt about me holding back my results on purpose you can confirm with Mod. He replied just couple of hours back and I saw that PM as I got OL right about now.
This makes me wonder as to why Om got his results earlier then me. but this is WIFOM argument and shouldn't be used to heavily.
So I wont pursue it.

Not gonna bother with voting yet, as I want to see everyone post too.

Not surprised at the guilty on iStark. His reaction is scummy.

Right!
Thanks for heavy contribution.

[Om of the Nom]

I didn't get any flavor with my result PM's.

This makes me wonder as to why Om got his results earlier then me. but this is WIFOM argument and shouldn't be used to heavily.
So I wont pursue it.

HAHAHA, THIS IS WHERE YOU'RE WRONG. THIS TIME I GOT FLAVOR FOR LAST NIGHT

AND

THE NIGHT BEFORE WITH MY INVESTIGATION (last night's specifically mentioned iStark as my target)!

ALSO VOIDED SAID IN MY PM THAT HE THOUGHT HE FORGOT SOMEONE (in the tone implying he forgot me). MEANING THAT I WAS ALMOST DEFINITELY THE LAST ONE TO GET MY REULTS BACK!

I CAUGHT YOU, YOU AIN'T GETTING AWAY.

[Om of the Nom]

MAN YOUR POSTS SCREAM OBVSCUM NOW THAT I'VE CAUGHT YOU.

[iStark]

I said check with the ''Mod'', not with yourself.

And I know you got flavor since you did for your last two results as well.

.sigh.

[Om of the Nom]

HOW CONVENIENT THAT YOU DON'T SEEM TO GET FLAVOR. MAYBE IT'S SO YOU DON'T STUFF IT UP AND GIVE YOURSELF AWAY (which you're already doing btw)?

[Rainbowdash]

So simple way to solve this is...

1) We lynch Stark
2) If he is town, we lynch MoI

Correct?

Correct.

Given that MoI (to be scum) would have had to hard bus Stark (or fake guilty) out of nowhere... Stark is probably scum-tracker. Probably with GF-AD.

OOTN being alive suggests a investigation tamperer too... scum are obviously not afraid of him at this point as they just opted to kill Korlash over the claimed tracker (Stark) the claimed cop (OOTN) and the claimed something (MoI). As im thinking about it come on... tracker AND motion sensor as town?

Pffft...



Oh that is too rich

Come on... How does ANYTHING balance against

Cop-Cop-Tracker-Motion Sensor-Voyer?

You would need something like GF/Tailer/Ninja combo for last two roles, even then its ehhhh

Dump tracker to scum and throw in tailor and you may be closer to balanced.

Once somepony tabulates all actions you can lynch.

[Om of the Nom]

No, I figured scum know I am basically an idiot and would assume I wouldn't investigate scum.

[Om of the Nom]

Oh yeah, my actions:

N1: Investigate Korlash (turns up Not Mafia)
N2: Investigate AD (turns up Not Mafia)
N3: Investigate iStark (turns up Mafia)

I have a better idea, if iStark flips town, we lynch AD after MoI (or vice versa). If my investigation results are tampered, then it most likely means my results come up as if I'm insane, meaning AD is most likely scum (because I presume they would have killed Amrun/tampered me in the same night assuming iStark actually is town).

[iStark]

HOW CONVENIENT THAT YOU DON'T SEEM TO GET FLAVOR. MAYBE IT'S SO YOU DON'T STUFF IT UP AND GIVE YOURSELF AWAY (which you're already doing btw)?

Not really, you're just avoiding to look at what' actually happening beyond your results.

So simple way to solve this is...

1) We lynch Stark
2) If he is town, we lynch MoI

Correct?

Correct.

Given that MoI (to be scum) would have had to hard bus Stark (or fake guilty) out of nowhere... Stark is probably scum-tracker. Probably with GF-AD.

OOTN being alive suggests a investigation tamperer too... scum are obviously not afraid of him at this point as they just opted to kill Korlash over the claimed tracker (Stark) the claimed cop (OOTN) and the claimed something (MoI). As im thinking about it come on... tracker AND motion sensor as town?

Pffft...



Oh that is too rich

Come on... How does ANYTHING balance against

Cop-Cop-Tracker-Motion Sensor-Voyer?

You would need something like GF/Tailer/Ninja combo for last two roles, even then its ehhhh

Dump tracker to scum and throw in tailor and you may be closer to balanced.

Once somepony tabulates all actions you can lynch.

Unfortunately enough, I agree and lynching me or one of MoI/Om duo is the only likely way out of this. I don't see you guy lynching any of them anymore considering how everything I've said/asked is being ignored.

My misguided/framed results from N2 of ''tracked player X doing nothing'' did me in.

Since, we pretty much agree on this & I've said everything I think is sufficient in my defense. I'm willing to self hammer if I don't see MoI lynch going through, but if you need to ask anything before I'm lynched you're free to do it. I will contribute to inuring towns win as much as possible before I'm dead.

Good luck.

[Om of the Nom]

Are you scum?

[iStark]

Nope. I stay by my claim.

[iStark]

HOW CONVENIENT THAT YOU DON'T SEEM TO GET FLAVOR. MAYBE IT'S SO YOU DON'T STUFF IT UP AND GIVE YOURSELF AWAY (which you're already doing btw)?

Just to answer this, scum can get flavor by Mod if he requests one from him as well. So, just because I didn't get any flavor I'm scum is not eligible argument.