Worst Role Mafia - GAME OVER!

[Tierce]

I don't see the problem regarding briz. Either he dies soon or we lynch him because his claim is obviously false.

What this post says:

"I'm ignoring the whole thread and commenting on a minor point that no one is even arguing."

Turrets this way tonight/tomorrow, if you please.

[mafia-n00b]

Speaking of tests, it looks like mafia-n00b's mcqueen test failed.

Well, voting him didn't make him suddenly appear, that's one thing.

However, I'm still waiting on a votecount to see if he's even a valid vote target.

[IceGuy]

I don't see the problem regarding briz. Either he dies soon or we lynch him because his claim is obviously false.

What this post says:

"I'm ignoring the whole thread and commenting on a minor point that no one is even arguing."

I'm not ignoring the entire thread.

I've already stated what I need to state: Phil needs to get rope, Oversoul needs to get spared, and I have reads on those players that actually post.

(I'm also thinking of my theorem I formulated after my experience with Secret Society Mafia: lurk the first days and you won't get lynched because you're one of many. Actually post stuff and you'll get lynched because you've stepped on somebody's toes.)

Also, 2b1s was the guilty child.

[saulres]

Oh whoops. I saw the VC in izak's ISO and thought I was looking at the thread and that it directly preceeded his most recent post.

@Mod

: Votecount please.

[Tierce]

I don't see the problem regarding briz. Either he dies soon or we lynch him because his claim is obviously false.

What this post says:

"I'm ignoring the whole thread and commenting on a minor point that no one is even arguing."

I'm not ignoring the entire thread.

I've already stated what I need to state: Phil needs to get rope, Oversoul needs to get spared, and I have reads on those players that actually post.

(I'm also thinking of my theorem I formulated after my experience with Secret Society Mafia: lurk the first days and you won't get lynched because you're one of many. Actually post stuff and you'll get lynched because you've stepped on somebody's toes.)

Also, 2b1s was the guilty child.

And you haven't explained none of those reads when requested, ignored Oversoul's post on you, so far and so forth. Also hi, I post a lot and I don't get lynched. That's a silly theory. Look town and you won't get lynched. MD discussion, anyway.

A guilty child in a

bastard game

. Yes. We all know that. I'm criticizing all of you who voted him, as you should realize by now if you actually read my catch-up posts.

[IceGuy]

And you haven't explained none of those reads when requested,

Didn't get a request.

ignored Oversoul's post on you,

That's because his case on me was a "generic case", meaning something you could apply to pretty much any player. It's not genuine scumhunting.

Also hi, I post a lot and I don't get lynched. That's a silly theory. Look town and you won't get lynched. MD discussion, anyway.

I might need to amend it: Post a lot and you won't get lynched because you look towny. Post almost nothing and you won't get lynched because you're one of many. Be somewhere in the middle and get lynched (and flip town while each time scum gets revealed it turns out they were amongst the lurkers, big surprise!)

A guilty child in a

bastard game

. Yes. We all know that. I'm criticizing all of you who voted him, as you should realize by now if you actually read my catch-up posts.

He was essentially a VT. Except with a buttload of WIFOM about his role. We couldn't let him live.

[Amrun]

Oh right, the vote-tester was 2birds1stone.

And you guys lynched him.

*facepalm*

Amrun, most scum doesn't really get out of their way to break setups, help counteract post restrictions, etc. It's the same reason I have a townread on mafia_n00b, and it's why this kind of townread doesn't work well with experienced players. Call it 'early game kindness-curiosity'--town will move out of their way to figure stuff and help others even if they don't have a solid read on them, scum not so much, they already have the info.

You forgot Agent_Ireland as a tester.

You're missing my point, though. If ML was scum, a buddy could be conceivably excited to confirm ML's role, hoping it would make ML be ignored as town with a bad role for the rest of the game and get town cred in the process for something that's non-scumhunting.

And even if ML is town, scum love to do pointless non-scumhunting things that make them look productive.

[Amrun]

He was essentially a VT. Except with a buttload of WIFOM about his role. We couldn't let him live.

SO MUCH THIS. Basic theory. 2birds had to go no matter what.


But IceGuy, you realize that Lord Gurgi won a Professor Mafia for that exact theory you're espousing ... It was about how to win AS SCUM.

[ShadowGirl]

You forgot Agent_Ireland as a tester.

You're missing my point, though. If ML was scum, a buddy could be conceivably excited to confirm ML's role, hoping it would make ML be ignored as town with a bad role for the rest of the game and get town cred in the process for something that's non-scumhunting.

And even if ML is town, scum love to do pointless non-scumhunting things that make them look productive.

Going to have to agree here; I think being a tester (as scum) and having their vote locked for the day is just a way to ensure that they have no D1 voting responsibility. I'm not saying the testers are scum, but it doesn't make them automatically townie.

[Tierce]

Late comment: huh, Pokerface, we'd already established between the two of us (and I'd stated in thread) that BB isn't going to recruit a second player; the odds of getting scum (with access to our QT, to boot) are not worth the relatively low odds of recruiting more town

Wait a minute. Whom of you is confirmed to the other to be town?

Neither. Doesn't change things, I have a townread on him, which means I don't believe the info on our QT is being shared elsewhere.

I know what you have, saul. And I think it does not make him scum, a survivor, a cult recruiter or anything else of that kind. He's playing very transparently, and actions and motivations definitely look like they are coming from town.

Asking for an investigative role to go to him is null,

he is not a PGO, and he is new to forum mafia. Know who you're playing with.

I didn't actually notice it at first, but on re-read...he did that.

Why the fuck is asking for an investigative role to visit him null when he turns everybody who visits him into green goo, vanillizing them?

Look, this is the situation: Phil is, even if he is town, deadweight at best and anti-town at worst. We can't investigate or JK him, because that means we lose that PR. If scum has a redirector or something along those lines, they can make us lose PRs.

He needs to die. All other players that have a wagon on them are either just deadweight (like Agent_Ireland or that one lurker) or pretty obviously town (Oversoul).

Why is Oversoul town?

And yes, it's null. You can WIFOM the hell out of it, but the fact is that there is no scum motivation to ask for an investigation. A goo'd cop could still turn up a guilty on him. There is no scum motivation for asking in-thread to be investigated.

We are going down the same lane you people did with 2birds1stone, who was asking to be vigged/investigated instead of lynched. You aren't bothering to scumhunt and are relying on claims to indicate alignment in a

Worst Role

game, for pity's sake. It's sad.

Emphasis.

I can't help but notice you call Oversoul obvtown and say he needs to be spared and then say that the biggest case he has made so far is "not genuine scumhunting". Talking out of both sides of your mouth.

[Tierce]

He was essentially a VT. Except with a buttload of WIFOM about his role. We couldn't let him live.

SO MUCH THIS. Basic theory. 2birds had to go no matter what.

HOLY KOI

YOU COULD HAVE CHOSEN TO SCUMHUNT INSTEAD

HOW ABOUT THAT

CRAZY, I KNOW

Instead, you even ignored the 2birds1stone voters after he flipped town. So what was the lynch for? To confirm this is a bastard game? We knew that already. Feh.

[izakthegoomba]

inte replaces ManiacalLemon. I'm happy to expand the deadline by 72 hours if he wishes.

Votecount 2.11

Oversoul (8) - Tierce, Gimmicky Alt, Agent_Ireland, brizingre1, theamatuer, ShadowGirl, Amrun, saulres
Phillammon (3) - IceGuy, danakillsu, Captain Haddock
danakillsu (2) - knox, inte
IceGuy (2) - Oversoul, RedPanda
Captain Haddock (1) - Phillammon
inte (1) - BBmolla
theamatuer (1) - Foxace36
brizingre1 (0) -

none

Foxace36 (0) -

none

BBmolla (0) -

none

Amrun (0) -

none

saulres (0) -

none

mafia-n00b (0) -

none

PokerFace (0) -

none

ShadowGirl (0) -

none

Gimmicky Alt (0) -

none

RedPanda (0) -

none

knox (0) -

none

Agent_Ireland (0) -

none

Tierce (0) -

none

No Lynch (0) -

none

Not voting (2) - PokerFace, mafia-n00b

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch. The deadline is in (expired on 2012-04-29 08:00:00)

[Tierce]

He's dead, or at least untargeatable.

Thank ShadowGirl.

[saulres]

having their vote locked for the day is just a way to ensure that they have no D1 voting responsibility.

Dammit, now you've got me questioning BB again

I mean this came out of nowhere.

This is why I hate vote posts that don't give reasons. Granted it's probably easy to make up a reason if you need to, but it might actually get you to think about what you're doing before you do it. (Plus we don't waste posts asking for the reason.)

[Phillammon]

Hey, guys? I have a theory about Mcqueen's role, between his PR and a post in the worst roles thing, I could definitely envision him being a modified version of the role I have in mind. Unfortunately, as written, putting the role here would be dangerous for town, so I'm gonna let you guys figure it out if necessary. Suffice it to say, I think he was indeed town, and may well be returning. He may just be a while.

[saulres]

You know, I really hate it when you do that. You say "Oh hey I know something, and you could figure it out too, so if you're so inclined to, do so, and if you're not, screw you, you don't deserve to get that information." Why bother bringing it up then?

This is basically more of this. Active lurking at its best. I don't understand why so many people are defending you.

[Tierce]

having their vote locked for the day is just a way to ensure that they have no D1 voting responsibility.

Dammit, now you've got me questioning BB again

I mean this came out of nowhere.

This is why I hate vote posts that don't give reasons. Granted it's probably easy to make up a reason if you need to, but it might actually get you to think about what you're doing before you do it. (Plus we don't waste posts asking for the reason.)

Don't. He explained the vote before he (apparently) realized what he had done, and this is exactly the kind of thing I expect town BB to do.

[saulres]

You have meta on that? Thanks. That helps. I really wanted to keep him town.

[saulres]

If the deadline does extend, I'm willing to move my vote to Phil, Oversoul, or Iceguy.

I am not willing to vote ShadowGirl, Tierce, BBMolla, mafia-noob, or brizingre1.

I'd only vote for inte if we got enough people committing to it. I think it's too late for that.

I'm open to arguments against anyone else.

[Amrun]

He was essentially a VT. Except with a buttload of WIFOM about his role. We couldn't let him live.

SO MUCH THIS. Basic theory. 2birds had to go no matter what.

HOLY KOI

YOU COULD HAVE CHOSEN TO SCUMHUNT INSTEAD

HOW ABOUT THAT

CRAZY, I KNOW

Instead, you even ignored the 2birds1stone voters after he flipped town. So what was the lynch for? To confirm this is a bastard game? We knew that already. Feh.

The 2birds lynch was to remove that WIFOM from the game so we never had to deal with it again. That was ESSENTIAL.

And, for the most part, voting 2birds was the protown thing to do, and since she was town, scum would do it as well, so it's hard to analyze.

But I remember getting one significant townread out of that whole thing anyway (ShadowGirl).

[Phillammon]

Okay then. I'll point you at the page, but if anything comes of it, we IMMEDIATELY suspect anyone who triggered it.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=175

This also applies, I guess, if someone tries to trigger it but fails. I realize it's basically nothing, but it would give us one potential reason. In the meantime, I'd like to say I'm wary of some of the interactions going on here- particularly ShadowGirl/Dana and OVersoul/Everyone. Looking back over, I'd like to here more from oversoul, but I would not be averse as of yet to an oversoul lynch. Just not until prettymuch right up to the wire. We need hunting, we need reads, but that doesn't mean we don't need speculation, surely?

[IceGuy]

Missed it earlier:

And yes, it's null. You can WIFOM the hell out of it, but the fact is that there is no scum motivation to ask for an investigation. A goo'd cop could still turn up a guilty on him. There is no scum motivation for asking in-thread to be investigated.

A goo'd cop might turn up a guilty on him. But he won't be a cop any more after that because he got goo'd.

Y'know, taking one for the team when you're dead soon anyway.

We are going down the same lane you people did with 2birds1stone, who was asking to be vigged/investigated instead of lynched. You aren't bothering to scumhunt and are relying on claims to indicate alignment in a

Worst Role

game, for pity's sake. It's sad.

So what you're saying is we shouldn't lynch a claimed anti-town role because it's a Worst Role game?

Emphasis.

I don't explain town reads unless it's something scum can't easily imitate or situation really requires it.

(Yes, I know I was shouting at people for not doing that in a game a few months ago. Opinions change.)

I can't help but notice you call Oversoul obvtown and say he needs to be spared and then say that the biggest case he has made so far is "not genuine scumhunting". Talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Bad town isn't scum. Actually, this type of case is mostly made by town run into a corner who need to appear useful real fast.

YOU COULD HAVE CHOSEN TO SCUMHUNT INSTEAD

HOW ABOUT THAT

CRAZY, I KNOW

Three words: Worst. Role. Mafia.

Instead, you even ignored the 2birds1stone voters after he flipped town. So what was the lynch for? To confirm this is a bastard game? We knew that already. Feh.

To get rid of a player who'd reduce town's chances of winning. Like any good lynch.

---

But IceGuy, you realize that Lord Gurgi won a Professor Mafia for that exact theory you're espousing ... It was about how to win AS SCUM.

Small games are a different beast than large games, and it took me some time to understand this.

In large games, first and foremost you don't want to get noticed as scum.

In a 13-player game, you have the other 12 (or 10, 8, ... as the game progresses) players in your head all the time. You notice lurkers, notice calculated inactors and generally have a decent read on every slot all the time.

In a 25-player game, there is no way you can do that. You do form reads on players, but only on the players you notice. You do have the most active four or five players in your head all the time and a good read. The rest of your "mental slots" are taken by players who slide in and out by making an exceptionally scummy or towny post, by a claim, or by a temporary frenzy in posting activity, only to be replaced when they return to mediocrity.

All your votes and your night actions focus on the players you have in a "mental slot". The others get ignored.

You don't not lynch lurkers because you think they're town. You don't lynch them because you're forgetting they're in the game.

So the best strategy for scum in a large game is to lurk hard on the first few days. Only when the number of players alive dwindles they should start calculated inaction or whatever strategy they think leads them to the win (I don't see you pulling off CI, for instance.)

In general, however, lurkerscum stays lurkerscum: they get through the first days no problem, but when players start mapping out the other players in their head they notice the lurking, and they get lynched fast.

---

Hey, guys? I have a theory about Mcqueen's role, between his PR and a post in the worst roles thing, I could definitely envision him being a modified version of the role I have in mind. Unfortunately, as written, putting the role here would be dangerous for town, so I'm gonna let you guys figure it out if necessary. Suffice it to say, I think he was indeed town, and may well be returning. He may just be a while.

This was an unhelpful post.

[Tierce]

Hmm.

The temptation to trigger it if it is so is huge, because it is mcqueen we're talking about. But anyway--not lynching town, etc. The thing is, Phil--unflipped deaths are rather common here. It can be from the role itself, or scum/the killer can have a Janitor. It's not unexpected in this game at all, and it has been nearly a full game day.

And I just noticed why Red Shirt is an horrible role. ._. It would suck to have it, period, knowing you'll be the first to die regardless of circumstances. Sorry, briz.



Sure IceGuy, don't explain townreads. Let Oversoul be lynched instead. Keeping your sacred hidden townread is so much better for town.

[RedPanda]

going to bed. will read this tomorrow.

[BBmolla]

I still maintain that 2bird's lynch was neccessary. It proved the game had possible bastardry in the roles.