NY 151: Playground Mafia (Game Over-Mafia Win!)

[Junpei]

you asked the same thing....

Yes, I asked if drmyshotguns' role could have possibly worked the way he described. Why on earth would he ask if his role could possibly work the way he says it did? If he is saying that he is back-up turned mason, then mason must be a powerrole from his perspective. His asking of that question (which I've already asked as you said!) is in direct conflict with his words that he is back-up turned mason.

[drmyshotgun]

Some people said Mason is a status not a Power Role. Universal Backup inherit Power role not status. Well, the mod should be able to tell us clearly for this game, right?

It

is

a power-role and I am one right now.

[drmyshotgun]

I'm just clearing things out for people.

[Nero Cain]

fair point, jun.

[mastin2]

Let's see...how many of my scumreads are trying to go, "SHOTGUN IS NOT CONFIRMED TOWN; HE IS SCUM FAKING!"?

There's Pine*, Junpei, a former scumread in the form of CodeX, a kinda-scumread in the form of FakeGod...

*Speaking of Pine, voting for scooby when calling shotgun scum? Yeah...that's scumpine.

Spoiler: The Mason QT

Psyche: White-Knighting Scum
Kublai Khan: Null leaning Town
Scooby: Has a lot of nerves being part of shitstorm although it had nothing to do with him. Needs to seek replacement for himself. Does not play. Threat to Town although no sufficient evidence that he is scum.
FakeGod: Scum. Anti has no idea why people think he is Town. Says Jason was mighty scummy.
Firestarter: Lurking scum.
The Mini Librarian: Not as scummy as Psyche, but still White-Knights.
Deasvail: Another White-Knight, but Town looking.
Macros: Based on how scummy his wagon was, he's probably just Town.
Code_X: Tentative Town. Thanks to Ninja
Benmage: 100% Town.
Pine: Scum. With half-hearted, with convictions that doesnt look genuine.
drmyshottyizsik: Based on his Meta, he's being scummy.
Hezlucky: Townish
Nero Cain: Probably Town.
Lady Lambdadelta: Might be serial killer but otherwise seem town.
Junpei: Just like Scooby, but he's scum.
Maxous: Town. But might be surprise scum.
GreyICE: Can't read him, but most likely to be replaced.

3. Vijay says:
Pine is definite scum.
GreyICE looks scum.
Benmage, LLD, Kublai: looks like a scum-team right there.
Mastin is Town or perhaps 3rd party.
FakeGod is null(Thanks to Jason).
No read on Psyche.
RedFF is Town. But also a douche.

This is not something easily faked. If shotgun could fake this as scum, it'd be scummy-worthy. "Well, what if he had a budddy help him?" That'd require for said buddy to know both masons were dead and to help type out the messages. Which'd require either a perfectly accurate read on both of 'em and knowing that two kills would go through both on them, or daytalk. And even then, it sounds like exactly what they would say, paraphrased.

Speaking of which, among Antihero's reads--Psyche, maybe-FakeGod, maybe-Firestarter, TML, DV (The WK comment holds true), Pine, Shotty, Junpei, AND Maxous are all good reads of his (even the part about Maxous most likely being town but could be surprise-scum), in addition to quite solid townreads in the form of Scooby, maybe-Macross, maybe-CodeX, Benmage, Hez, Nero, and LLD. Heck, pretty much the only reads in there I disagree with are the Khan and DV townreads, which were "null, leaning town" at that!

2. Kublai Khan - Similar to Mastin.

And why, pray tell, is Khan similar to me yet NOT on your lynchlist?

8. DeasVail - I think he's town. He's been ganged up on a bit.

And who--other than me--has attacked DV? Do elaborate; I am quite curious how DV has been 'ganged up on'.

Your post was concise and agree with the points made and the conclusion based off those points.

Why did you agree with the points made? Which ones did you specifically agree with? Surely some of them you didn't agree with; could you point to those as well?

Mastin, I'd like to see a full KK case.

You really don't. I might type one in my QT and try to summarize it (I definitely will give a summary; the case is the might), but a full case would be 90% of his posts with 3-5 paragraphs

per sentence he has written

if I really went 100% on the case.

Psyche- This is mostly because of his vote on rack.

You mean the guy who flipped vanilla town? And...

what

, exactly, does Psyche's vote on a confirmed town mislynch do to make him worthy of this high status?

Junpei- I don't think him saying that drmy shouldn't be considered confirmed town is scummy.

Explain this as well.

[Junpei]

Mastin, where is that massive wall? You never wrote anything and you are threatening us with walls of text as excuses for not posting content.

I no longer mind walls; lets see your KK case, I will accept a massive wall.

[Psyche]

Psyche- This is mostly because of his vote on rack.

lolwhat?

[mastin2]

For the record. Khan, Pine, and Junpei are all VERY strong scumreads.

I realize there are only six scum, but unfortunately, I have a few more suspects than I'd like for who the last three are.
Shotty's my strongest scumread other than the basically-scumclaimed-three, which leaves two slots open.

Antihero's reads which I share for sure in my QT are {Psyche, TML}, with figures of interest in {FakeGod, Firestarter}.

Reads which I need to look again at are {Macross, CodeX}, both of which have done quite scummy things, but both of whom I had begun to think town, and yet both have continued to do things I'd expect to see from scum.

Put in list format:

TOWN:
shotgun
redFF
scooby
Benmage
Lady Lambdadelta
HezLucky
Nero Cain

GreyICE
Maxous (

on-guard

)

SCUM:
Kublai Khan Man
Pine
Junpei

shotty

MAJOR SCUM SUSPECTS: (Overlapped with Antihero)
Psyche
The Mini-Librarian

MINOR SCUM SUSPECTS:
4. FakeGod
5. Firestarter

DITTO SUSPECT:
8. DeasVail

NEED ANOTHER LOOK: (But tenatively town)
9. Macros
10. Code_X

(Gah, 11. I'm getting worse instead of better! >_<)

I'll go double-check stuff now. See what Antihero was talking about, and see what *I* have been talking about, confirm the reads here. 4 solid scumreads, 2 strong scumreads, 2 weak scumreads, 1 ditto-read. I feel like I'm CLOSE to figuring it out, but not *QUITE* there, yet. My scumteam(s) doesn't seem right. I'm missing something. (DANG IT, GREYICE, YOU'D PROBABLY SEE IT IF YOU WERE STILL PLAYING! :/)

[mastin2]

Spoiler: Walls

Mastin, where is that massive wall?

As stated in-thread, the wall was abandoned when the thought of multiscum cropped up. I theoretically could have rehauled the entire wall to account for it, but didn't. It'd require me to basically do double the workload. (Quadruple, if I were to follow Khan's original request. ) One where I list my reads if it's single-scum, the other where I list my reads with multiscum. The two would not be the same, as one scumteam or two scumteams changes the dynamics of interactions. And while I'm heavily leaning towards two (it'd explain a lot of people's playstyles not being quite what I'd expect, at the very least), I am far from sure of it. I'd love to, but quite frankly, it has the same problem as the Khan-case almost certainly would: it'd require a LOT of time for me to finish, time which I am quite short on this weekend (make that week, really--Wednesday in particular will be nasty, and by extent the days before and after Tuesday and Thursday will probably have me preoccupied), and next weekend even moreso. Biting off more than I can chew is a habit I need to cut back on.

MAJOR SCUM SUSPECTS: (Overlapped with Antihero)
Psyche
The Mini-Librarian
DITTO SUSPECT:
8. DeasVail

I think what's bothering me is that Psyche-DesaVail makes sense, but that by himself, TML looks far worse than either of 'em. And that for Psyche and DeasVail to both be scum (Psyche and TML, for that matter, too), it'd require FakeGod and Firestarter to both be town. I'll see if I can follow things through.

[Junpei]

Yeah you have nothing, Mastin; this is quite ridiculous. 1132 says a lot of nothing and really no evidence of scumhunting. 1133 is just excusing doing nothing while saying a lot of words. You say you wrote things in a QT. The wall did not get deleted inside the QT, post what you've written so far.

[Nero Cain]

Oh what the hell.

Why LLD is scum

Spoiler:

Calls Mini slightly scummy for finding Rack scummy but she finds Rack scummy and later joined the Rack wagon herself. Cognitive dissonance and possible buddy distancing given that she didn't call anyoneone else scummy only Mini.

Librarian has some good posts about Rack. Then again, Rack is a incredibly easy target and anyone can make the blanket statement about Rack's questions. They're terrible. Follow this with Rack not substatiating his claim about me, and he's looking really bad. This isn't to say that I think Librarian is scummy for liking Rack as scum,

I just don't think he's incredibly town for it.

And I don't think any conjectures can be made about Scooby's confirm post. It's literally completely null until Scooby posts some content. So, yeah Librarian is town but not as town as everyone seems to think. Probably a slight town lean, just for sincerity in posts.

Believes that Rack town told but ignores it since he did something scummy. Town tell + Scum tell=null tell not town tell + scum tell=scum tell

RedFF- I don't know what the problem with forcing a hydra to claim their heads is.

I actually found it to be a town tell.

The only reason I'm not doing it, is because at this moment I consider my vote on them and if they refuse to answer my question again, I'll be lynching them day 1. And then it won't matter who their heads are.

Says its anti-town to explain town reads despite explaining some town reads.

Flips on Fire when Fire didn't post between her posts. Fence sitting, made up read.

I just don't see what is setting of so many alarms in rack's posting.


LLD, I noticed you haven't said a thing about firestarted all game, what do you think of that wagon?

I do agree that the KK wagon isn't great.

There's a Firestarter wagon? I know a few people were displeased with his opening post, but I didn't see a lot wrong with it.

It was a little weak but not scummy IMO.

8 voters, 2 former-voters, 3 interested players, 13 to lynch.
Rack's been pseudolynched already, even without the above players' opinions. Look at the names involved.

[Benmage, The Mini-Librarian, drmyshotgun, Firestarter, Kublai Khan, Pine, Lady Lambdadelta, Candy Corn Vampire], {NihilisticNinja, Psyche}, (mastin2, Maxous, DV).
[Voting]{Voted}(Interested).

Tell me, LLD, does this look like a town-driven wagon to you?

Um, with the exception of Pine and maybe CCV and

Firestarter

, I believe most players on this wagon to be town.

Ninja is town. Psyche is null-town for me right now.

So I mean, it looks pretty town to me.

Heavily buddies AH in 502. and guess who wound up dead?

I don't know about this Nero wagon. Like I said, I can't tell if his terrible posting is scum or just a genuine dislike for me and based off policy.

I'll go look back through his ISO and interactions with people.

I agree he's just voting me to vote me, but there's a potential it might not be scum.

This is

NOT

a townie response. "Meh, I'm being voted b/c they dislike me. OH WOE IS ME!!!" Is scum

ATEing

and waving the vote off.

Also I found this fairly interesting.

Quite honestly, I make a dozen or more such connections on day 1.

I don't post any of them because in my mind none of them have any relevance until some people die and we have some absolutes to work with.

What makes you so cofident that you'll live to tell? I understand its past day 1 now but you could have died. You could die tonight, the next night etc. I don't see why pesudo-town is willing to with hold information/speculation.

EBWOP: As such, I find it a LITTLE bit suspicious that people try and do that, because there is scum motivation to state these kinds of reads. (See: Chaining Lynches)

but there's also town motivation to do so but you refuse to do so in fear of comming across scummy. Duly Noted.

Overall I think her posting is terrible and (if she's not scum) she needs to go directly to the newbie queue, not pass go and not collect $200. Her "but I had 37 posts on day 1!!!! I'm so not lurking." when only a few of those posts were decent content (IMO). As much as I think she's scum, TML's zeal that I should not suspect LLD makes me feel (a little) like she's town b/c I doubt a scum buddy would defend her that hard. Still its hard to ignore her craptastic fire flip and NN shadowing.

[mastin2]

Spoiler: You ask, you receive

Okay. I'm going to do the re-read, dividing it into each player.

Players

:

NOTE--you'll note much of the 'original reasoning' is what I already posted, way back when I did my series of walls. It all came from my QT, first, though.

The Mini-Librarian:

This is the first game he's done it (I checked), but I think it increases his chances of being town, as doing a look into his meta reveals that he immediately opens up as scum with strong play. (There's a reason that he was a legitimate townread for most of the game in Oversoul's game.)

I'll write him off as town for now.

Needless to say, this was quite weak.

[His play] looks aggressive (good indicator he's town), but the words within [do not look pro-town].

Basically, town-by-personality, scum-by-words.

Nihilistic Ninja:

Ninja's banter, on the other hand, is giving me the opposite initial impression--it looks like an attempt to make oneself purposefully look more town.

Jason/Fake God:

Macross:

HezLucky:

Candy Corn Vampire/Antihero:

Candy looks town for pointing out Ninja's attitude, so I'm inclined to beleive that Candy is, in fact, town. CCV could be scum (especially if Ninja is town), sure, but it looks more and more doubtful.

vijay2vasadani:

However, vijay and Ninja can't be scum together, so only one of them is actually scum, due to same banter. My scumread on Ninja is stronger, so that's my best bet.

Basically, town-because-Ninja's-not.

Kublai Khan:

Benmage:

Similar logic [to the redFF tell] kinda sorta gives me a microscopic townlean on Benmage. [Later] Benmage's interactions with Khan [have increased] my townread on him.

rack:

Lady Lambdadelta:

LLD's pre-game banter kinda sorta gives me a townread on her. At the very least, she's not scum with drmy, nor with Benmage.

drmyshottyizsik:

Given the interest in a shotty lynch, [he's probably not scum].

Praetyre/GreyICE:

drmyshotgun:

Firestarter:

Maxous:

Maxous also can't be scum with Ninja (due to their interactions), but looks quite off himself.

Nero Cain:

Khan's attack against Nero [also Ninja's interactions] does give credence to him being town.

scooby:

scooby's town beyond all doubt [and was a townread due to lack-of-confirm-gut-feeling before], in thanks to Khan.

Psyche:

DeasVail:

Other Stuff

:

(Note, many places probably would have gotten their own spoilers--original reasoning, maybe original-in-thread-reasoning, maybe-maybe-all outdated reads, and in the case of really long cases, maybe-current-reads. As it was, none of them got large enough because I abandonned the wall at the stage I said I did: after I had gone through my QT, but before I had gone through the thread. The below spoiler was the only thing which I deemed long enough; it's part of the wall, but as it was already a spoiler, it might as well have a separate spoiler section.)

Spoiler: How I Originally Began The Game

When I began the game, I arbitrarily divided the playerlist into four categories:

-Standard confirm. {Librarian, Macros, vijay2vasadani, shotty, Praetyre/GreyICE, Firestarter, rack.}
-Semi-standard confirm. {NihilisticNinja, jason, HezLucky, Maxous, Junpei, LLD, drmy.}
-Non-standard confirm. {mastin2, redFF, Candy Corn Vampire, Khan, Benmage, Pine, Nero.}
-Unconfirmed. {moaner, sorgster, scooby}

(Note--DV is sorgster, Psyche is moaner. scooby moves to standard, Psyche to semi-standard, and DV to semi-standard.)

Making the end list:

-Standard confirm. {Librarian, Macros, vijay2vasadani, shotty, Praetyre/GreyICE, Firestarter, rack, scooby.}
-Semi-standard confirm. {NihilisticNinja, jason, HezLucky, Maxous, Junpei, LLD, drmy, Psyche, DeasVail.}
-Non-standard confirm. {mastin2, redFF, Candy Corn Vampire, Khan, Benmage, Pine, Nero.}

I included a reason each one of these was placed in the category they were. Now originally, I broke things down to end like this:

TOWN(ish):

{Librarian, shotty, vijay}
{Junpei, Maxous, LLD}
{redFF, Pine, Nero, CCV}

{moaner, sorgster, scooby}

SCUM(ish):
{?}
{Ninja, drmy}
{Khan}

NULL:
{Macross, Praetyr, Firestarter, rack}
{jason, HezLucky}
{Benmage (townlean)}

Not quite the reads you saw from me originally, but dang-close to what they were. (This was the second list I made, the first one being less complete.)

See individual player sections for why each read ended up the way it did. All of this pretty much before the game began.

At the time I made the above list, I posted in the conclusions:

My best guess at this point would be Ninja-Khan-drmy-Firestarter-rack-*onemore*.

Edited 04-19-2012 03:50 PM
And at that time, I began typing my original wall.

[Nero Cain]

And yeah that Deas Psyche read is terrible.

Mastin, DV is a sorgster alt?

[Junpei]

Librarian has some good posts about Rack. Then again, Rack is a incredibly easy target and anyone can make the blanket statement about Rack's questions. They're terrible. Follow this with Rack not substatiating his claim about me, and he's looking really bad.

This isn't to say that I think Librarian is scummy for liking Rack as scum

, I just don't think he's incredibly town for it. And I don't think any conjectures can be made about Scooby's confirm post. It's literally completely null until Scooby posts some content. So, yeah Librarian is town but not as town as everyone seems to think. Probably a slight town lean, just for sincerity in posts.

Nero: The bold is for you; I don't like your LLD case by the way.

Mastin those are barely walls, and nothing to be afraid of. That's really sad that you played it up, I Think you're scum.

[mastin2]

No, but he replaced sorgster's slot. (Pet peeve: I really,

really

hate it when mods do not acknowledge a slot once was held by another person--even if said person never confirmed and never was a part of the game; they were sent a PM, and ESPECIALLY in an open-confirm-game such as this, that means that content can form on said slots.)

And yeah that Deas Psyche read is terrible.

Please clarify whose Deas/Psyche reads are terrible, and then explain why.

[Nero Cain]

yeah I saw that but she also said he's not incredibly town for it. It doesn't even make sense!!! And why is he the only one that's not incredibly town for finding Rack scum? How can she believe someone is "not townie" and then sit on said wagon.

I don't really care if you or anyone likes my case.

What do you think of her flip on Fire?

[Psyche]

: /

Someone's been getting lazy with his compulsivity.

Has mastin even explained his Deas/Psyche read? Or just indicated that he has one where they are connected scum?

[Nero Cain]

And yeah that Deas Psyche read is terrible.

Please clarify whose Deas/Psyche reads are terrible, and then explain why.

He called Psyche town for being on a mislynch. I don't care if he thinks the slot is town but it shouldn't be for

that

.

[Psyche]

And yeah that Deas Psyche read is terrible.

Please clarify whose Deas/Psyche reads are terrible, and then explain why.

He called Psyche town for being on a mislynch. I don't care if he thinks the slot is town but it shouldn't be for

that

.

Oh, that. Yea. There are tons of better reasons.

[mastin2]

Dang it, I think I just got into confirmation bias mode. Since...

Has mastin even explained his Deas/Psyche read? Or just indicated that he has one where

they are connected scum?

...Reads to me as a scumslip. >_<

[Nero Cain]

Mastin, what do you think of my LLD case? Does it change anything or is she still a town read for you?

[Pine]

@Mod: Mason is a Power-Role. Right?

^Scumclaim

If he were what he says he is, he would already know the Mod's opinion on this question

-----

Hey Mastin? When have you had a major scumread on me and actually been right? Further, when have you been right about me being scum, and I let you live?

[Psyche]

Dang it, I think I just got into confirmation bias mode. Since...

Has mastin even explained his Deas/Psyche read? Or just indicated that he has one where

they are connected scum?

...Reads to me as a scumslip. >_<

Lolk. How?

[drmyshotgun]

But he is.

No, he's not. Universal Backup DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. Gunny fucked up his fakeclaim. Mason is NOT a power role, any more than Miller or Godfather is. It's a status. Universal Backups don't inherit it.

Looking over Maxous's most recent castigation, I'm continuing to confuse Rack and Scooby. Scooby is still scummy for his trollish refusal to participate, but he's not the one who asked for VT clarification. I need to stop being lazy in this game and get serious.

Unvote
Vote: Gunny

Dude, Pine, you are the one who said that. I'm just confirming this to the Mod. Are you a dumbass?

[mastin2]

Mastin, what do you think of my LLD case? Does it change anything or is she still a town read for you?

It has maybe one or two points which might be valid, but otherwise seems like it doesn't really hold. It does look like it comes from a town perspective, solidifying my already-rather-strong townread on you, though.

Hey Mastin? When have you had a major scumread on me and actually been right?

When said read was not my original read. I read you as town originally, after all.

Further, when have you been right about me being scum, and I let you live?

Multiple factors come into this. Multiscum, doc protects, suspecting I might be scum myself and not wanting a crosskill, other buddies overriding, trying to WIFOM me back into my original read on you...there are probably other reasons I can think of to explain it, but those seem to be all fairly probable reasons your scumteam would be hesitant to kill me.