Open 387: Jungle Republic (Day 6 - ends in a Town Victory)

[Ravel]

Day 4 Vote Count

Chrimi (3)

L-1

: Fat_Tony, asher1611, Om of the Nom
Om of the Nom (1): Kassadin
Thomith (1): Chrimi

Not Voting (2): Thomith, Pirate Chemist

There are 7 players alive, which means it takes 4 votes to lynch.
Deadline in

(expired on 2012-05-06 18:00:00)

(April 30, 6:00 PM EDT or 10:00 PM GMT)

As of Post #874

[Pirate Chemist]

I'm going back on what I said earlier (I know it makes me look bad if Chrimi is scum, but /meh). I don't think Chrimi is scum here. A few interactions with vijay just seem too obvious.

...now Thomith

[Chrimi]

If you did it wasn't big enough for a hammer.

[Om of the Nom]

Fine, if I can't get my Chrimi lynch then I can go for the next best thing.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Thomith

[asher1611]

(which is grounds for a modkill at a place I used to play)

IDK, sounds like whining to me.

Once again, nice attempt at redirecting. You seem to continue ignoring my point that I believe it is a scummy move. Your complete failure to address any other point I raise indicates to me that you are making an admission that I am correct by not disputing them.

And to be honest, if you were town I would really think you would be pushing more against this and pushing for a lynch of someone else, someone who you think is scum. You've been on Thom for awhile but have said little as to why you think he is scum except for your gut and then because of his most recent vote. Well, there's enough game tape to substantiate that gut feeling and say more. Enough to make a bigger case. Instead, you look like you're waving the white flag, and in doing so attempting to hide who your last scumbuddy is (fat_tony who is really aggressively pushing to lynch you today without giving too much of his own reasoning) (thomith who you have been voting the entire game).

I'm going back on what I said earlier (I know it makes me look bad if Chrimi is scum, but /meh). I don't think Chrimi is scum here. A few interactions with vijay just seem too obvious.

...now Thomith

Could you point to the interactions in question? Because there were some ones from Day 1 that did look like there was some possible jovial familiarity with them. The kind that could be null or could be a scumtell depending on how you read it.

[asher1611]

Fine, if I can't get my Chrimi lynch then I can go for the next best thing.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Thomith

I don't like this vote at all. Don't think I have forgotten about you OMNOM, I haven't.

[Om of the Nom]

Why not? What's so bad about me wanting my second best lynch?

[Om of the Nom]

If you want I can move it back to Chrimi.

[asher1611]

Adding numbers in bold to Chrimi's response in post 820 to make my response easier to follow:

#1

They were very strong town reads at the time. However, how om just barely voted me after you did and the such, I'm starting to not like him.

#2

I have been put into a few games with drmyshotgun and I've liked everything he has said in all of them. And if somebody posts some good points, and I can follow the logic and agree, then I simply follow.

#3

No. I had been voting Thomith because he had been rather gut-feeling-scummy, and nobody else had much reason behind a vote that I had noticed. Then kass comes in and follows somebody else's vote, and I hate the troll so I vote him.

#4

Explain how you would get info from me flipping town, please.

#5

I hate it when people support something with "We should lynch somebody soon, so we should at least make it scum." *facepalm*

As I said before, no surprises in any of your responses. Let me go by number then:

#1:

That's fair, and I still don't like Omnom between his Day 1 defensive self metaing and his sheeping behind my reasoning to vote Elmo. (same applies to Kass) pedit: add in his asking me for permission to make decisions he should be able to make himself.

#2:

That's all well and good, but look back over the whole game. The way you justify your votes gives me pause:

Just to point out that kondi joins the wagon on chi without posting his notes

VOTE: Kondi

Don't unvote to wait for his notes, keep your vote on to add pressure to see them.

I don't like that he spent time jumping on a wagon instead of getting his 'notes' together.

That is why I am not his partner.

I was on the wagon that lynched the werewolf.

Happy now?

I look at these two posts in conjunction, and then I look back to the circumstances of your Kondi vote. He had just been knocked off of L-2 because someone wanted to wait for his notes. You line up and immediately plop in your vote simply to add pressure after he voted on you. By itself, some would say it was an opportunistic vote while others would say you were staying consistent with your vote=pressure mantra you have been following the whole game.

But the second post...it just screams "hey guys look I'm town 'k?" in the wrong way. You're defending yourself when from one vote and some general assertions of your scumminess by saying you could not be scum because scum would never vote for each other. They do. All the time.

Your "happy now" at the end is also a further uncharacteristic over reaction. You make it sound as if you have settled the whole argument, when in fact you have merely raised an absolute as a defense. As a result, the post says to me

"nothing to see here, oh by the way I'm hiding something."

#3:

Voting because you hate the troll. We're not playing Trollbasher 5000 we're playing Mafia. So your explanation, to use the technical term, is crap. You're using emotional reasoning to justify a vote when the town really needs to be focused on logical dissemination of the game to weed out the remaining scum. Vote the troll? I don't think the town would be a fan of a Day 4 policy lynch, but you didn't seem to mind before switching your vote back to Thom.

#4:

This one made me guffaw a little bit. This whole game you have been very shortsighted with how people could play mafia, and this is not the first time you have tried to come down on me for thinking long term. So let me put it in these terms: sometimes you have to break a few eggs to get things done. The town can win and mislynch town. So if you were to flip town, everyone can look back at Day 4 and analyze how the town got to a Chrimi lynch. The fact that the town knows I'm the seer is a huge help there.

#5:

You didn't read what I posted. Or you're just attempting to mis-characterize something I said. I'm not rushing for a lynch. You're over reacting to a simple assertion that the game's odds are currently in favor of a town victory.

[asher1611]

Why not? What's so bad about me wanting my second best lynch?

Well, where do I start?

1) We are over 10 days from the dealine, there is plenty of time
2) No one had moved their vote off of Chrimi at L-1 until you did.
3) You changed your vote based on someone else's doubt. Your only doubt was there being no support for a Chrimi lynch when it is still very much a possibility.

I also thought you reacted very poorly to Kass' pressure -- which is saying something because *shocker* that's the first I've seen Kass truly contribute to this game in more than 1 or 2 post bursts.

If you want I can move it back to Chrimi.

Oh goodie, trying to make your vote look good by getting the blessing of the confirmed townie to vote for X player.

FOS Om of the Nom

(who until this point, for how many weeks now, I have been misreading his name as "Om to the Nom")

[Om of the Nom]

The Chrimi wagon was stalling and making the game stagnate, what's so wrong with me changing my vote to get some more activity?

[Kassadin]

Fine, if I can't get my Chrimi lynch then I can go for the next best thing.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Thomith

I don't like this vote at all. Don't think I have forgotten about you OMNOM, I haven't.

I dont like this vote either,
He votes Chrimi as he did say he looks scum right now
As me and him discussed earlier, he said i was the nxt target that he suspects
and yet he votes Thomith?

[Kassadin]

your really bad

really bad as in scummy, or really bad as in play style?
Could you try to explain things that could be taken more than one way?

it was playstyle
I have explained why omnom is scum

[Om of the Nom]

As me and him discussed earlier, he said i was the nxt target that he suspects

Huge huuuuggggeee, misrep. I mentioned in our "discussion" (if you can call it that) that I think you are town and I have stuck by that read all game.

[Om of the Nom]

Also no you haven't explained why I was scum. I refuted all your points with that fact that I am voting my suspects, and trying to get their lynch (which is a pro-town thing to do).

[Kassadin]

Also no you haven't explained why I was scum. I refuted all your points with that fact that I am voting my suspects, and trying to get their lynch (which is a pro-town thing to do).

Did u really need to state "Which is a pro-town thing to do)?
This really tells me that u are just trying to obtain town credit

[Kassadin]

As me and him discussed earlier, he said i was the nxt target that he suspects

Huge huuuuggggeee, misrep. I mentioned in our "discussion" (if you can call it that) that I think you are town and I have stuck by that read all game.

lol. U DID SAY i was a easy lynch

[Om of the Nom]

No, I said it because you keep calling me scum for doing it.
And yes I said you were an easy lynch, doesn't mean I support it.

[asher1611]

The Chrimi wagon was stalling and making the game stagnate, what's so wrong with me changing my vote to get some more activity?

Because the brakes getting thrown on the game at L-1 tells me the scum doesn't want to make the next move and that we are on the right track.

It's not about the quantity of activity. It's about the quality.

[Pirate Chemist]

Could you point to the interactions in question? Because there were some ones from Day 1 that did look like there was some possible jovial familiarity with them. The kind that could be null or could be a scumtell depending on how you read it.

A couple examples off the top of my head.

Recall the RQS

Spoiler: Post 116

1. Hate.
2. Vijay. Always Vijay.
3. Werewolf, seems interesting.
4. Scum.
5. Nup.
6. Vijay. He's ninja like that.
7. Chocolates, man!
8. Neither.
9. Hate both.
10. 5, one got discontinued ;( 6 including this one.
11. Werewolves.

When asked who he would want his scumbuddy to be, Chrimi puts his actual scumbuddy? Not ironclad, but I think scum would tend to not do that.

Also this, from Day 1

Spoiler: Post 305

Makes his current logic bad. His current logic is faulty because he is being pressured hard.

Cornered townie, as vijay said. Defending from his attacker(s). Slandaar, somebody's case being bad does not make them scum, it makes the case bad and that's it. Both scum and townies can make bad cases, it happens all the time.

So, I agree Om your logic on the situation is at fault, but I do not believe he is scum.

P-edit: Thomith, he is fighting back and defending, if he just backed down Slandaar would move in and continue making points and asking for an answer. Om is answering and defending, like anybody would. A bad defense means a townie that has given up, anyways. Fighting back and defending means a strong town who is trying to understand why Slandaar is tunneling him.

Chrimi, as scum, would echo a case on a townie who's about to flip off of a scumbuddy? Scum parrots tend to parrot townies, especially if they know (or think, in this case) their lynch target is a townie.

Early Day 2

Spoiler: Post 752

And why am I scum exactly?

D: Vijay died! But I finally got to play another game with him...

Makes me wonder who his scum partner was... Brb, going to ISO him.

scumChrimi publicly expressing dismay at the death of his scumbuddy? This is just too much. I don't think Chrimi is vijay's scumbuddy.

[Pirate Chemist]

Fine, if I can't get my Chrimi lynch then I can go for the next best thing.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Thomith

lolwat? Thomith JUST SAID he was about to hammer.

Way to torpedo your townread in one post.

The Chrimi wagon was stalling and making the game stagnate, what's so wrong with me changing my vote to get some more activity?

Because the brakes getting thrown on the game at L-1 tells me the scum doesn't want to make the next move and that we are on the right track.

It's not about the quantity of activity. It's about the quality.

Again, Thomith just expressed intent to hammer. If anything, Chrimi is getting railroaded here.

[Om of the Nom]

I don't like the idea of Thomith hammering Chrimi. It leads me to believe Thomith is actually scum trying to get a Chrimi mislynch. And scum not making the next move may have to do with scum probably being on the wagon.

Damn, my brain is going a mile a minute and I don't really know where I stand with my reads now. I need some time to think this over.
UNVOTE:
For now.

[Pirate Chemist]

So... I guess you think Fat Tony is scum...

[Om of the Nom]

Yeah, honestly I can now see Fat Tony as scum.

[Thomith]

I find it a little weird how as soon as i expressed interest to hammer om changed their vote, and voted me with a reason that was probably untrue at the time.