Heroes of Comedy Game Over - He who laughs last!

[pappums rat]

I think the debate between Benmage and Korlash looks like town vs. town.

#349 is hella scummy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: pappumsrat

First he defends himself using purely semantic reasoning. AND THEN BLASTS KORLASH FOR MAKING SEMANTIC ARGUMENTS.

Top that off with the utter lack of reasoning for why MoI is scum and pappums needs rope.

Also this is the response to my question about why and where Korlash became null for him.

When he decided he was going to spam the thread with semantic arguments that are going nowhere. He did this in a recent game as scum, but I think this is more of a playstyle thing than a scum-driven thing tbh.

Earlier in the game he said this.

I think the debate between Benmage and Korlash looks like town vs. town.

If anyone can show me how you can possibly say that Korlash vs Benmage is town vs. town but somehow Korlash's posts after that are suspect for some reason I'll be glad to listen. But I really don't see how you can possibly make that conclusion.

MoI misrepped me and said that I said one of them MUST be town, when that was simply not the case. I never "blasted" Korlash, I said his townread was gone and that his epic wall posts of mainly semantic arguments was the reason for that.

If you had read the thread you would have seen my

utter lack of

reasoning behind my suspicion of MoI.

I never said Korlash's posts became suspect, I said he is now null to me, meaning I had lost the initial townread I had on him.

[pappums rat]

EBWOP:

Because thats how I saw it.

That is so finely detailed...

I meant, how exactly is what Pere said accurate.

You hold double standards, one for yourself and one for other players.

[Korlash]

I called his vote "sheeping" in 222. Why are you asking this now when I brought it up nearly 150 posts ago?

I'll ignore the obvious stupidity of this and just move along.

I asked you how he was sheeping, please stop avoiding answering the question. I asked because you brought it up in post 365 and thus it must still be relevant to you. I get it, you don't like me, big fucking deal. Stop avoiding questions I pose towards you because that is far more damaging then any wall of crap I could post.

You hold double standards, one for yourself and one for other players.

Examples...

[vijay2vasandani]

What about his sheeping?

I called his vote "sheeping" in 222. Why are you asking this now when I brought it up nearly 150 posts ago?

One interesting outcome from this exercise is that VJ looks much scummier in ISO than I remembered and I think I'm starting to better understand Mini Librarian's read. He does a lot of quoting and agreeing with people randomly without actually providing new information. That is the 1000 foot overview takeaway I get from his ISO. I still don't have that one specific "thing" I can point to yet but I'm not getting a Town vibe.

lol how convenient.

[jasonT1981]

Zeek replaces Knox. Thank you.

Edit: I didn't realize Jester also asked to be replaced, until doing the vote count. A search begins now.

[Fate]

Why I think MoI is scum (cliffsnotes edition):

I initially voted MoI for what I believed was him going after an easy target for poor reasons (V2V).

Added to that was the whole thing about him researching who confirmed last and that he used the same method of random voting only 2 other times (both as scum). These wouldnt be reasons to vote him, but they did add to the development of my scumread on him.

Then what really set it off was his goading of Benmage and Fate and trying to cause trouble. He did something similar (as I have said) in KGB Mafia and that's when I decided MoI was definately scum.

MoI has claimed Benmage is scummy for doing some of the same things that he has.

MoI keeps pushing that I am trying to "line up lynches" when I simply made the statement that I think that he and Yates are on different teams. He has also repeatedly tried to push me into saying whether I think pizza is his scumbuddy when I suspect pizza for completely seperate reasons.

Those are the principle reasons why I think MoI is scum.

^This right here is the "first person to speculate on multi-ball on day ONE" towntell

Meanwhile in Pizzascumcoast land...

[Fate]

Oh, you are arrogant. Also, that post was arrogant.

Prod this scum please

[Zeek]

Quite a few names I recognize in this game.

I will be read and caught up by saturday.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Fate continues to coast with his vote parked on a VI and play very low-key.

Welcome Zeek. We meet again …

--

Don't think I'm done with vijay yet. What is everyone's opinion on him?

I don’t have him as a scum read. He took my initial salvo early and while he did vote for me he was the first one off my wagon which is generally a plus IMO (with a small caveat).

I wouldn’t wagon him today.

--

I could do this, and single handedly solve the mystery of "whose the scum" if only I have enough hours in a day. Since I don't, and the living players would do there own version of who-was-on-the-wagon day2, I asked you, the potentially dead player, to do so before you died.

Are you really not understanding what I asked for or why I did?

Yes I understand why you are saying it. Doesn’t mean I have to agree with your reasons. Everyone else's version of the wagon is from a different perspective than your own.

My question to you is – why is your time more valuable than mine? If you don’t have the hours in the day to play in a manner that serves your wincon you can’t expect people to do it for you.

--

Damn, you are obsessed with pushing your horseshit "lining up lynches" point arent you? I didnt commit to jack shit. Why do you need me to say that pizza and you "fit well as partners" exactly? You two have not interacted enough to say something like that even if I wasnt going to wait for a flip before coming to a conclusion on whichever of you were not the one who got lynched.

You’ve completely avoided my questions – why if your stance is I wouldnt start talking about who your partners could be until after you were to flip scum. would you be entertaining other relational reads without flips. You could certainly say “Pizza doesn’t make any sense as MoI’s possible partner” based on what went on in thread (as I have discussed already).

I explained why his reaction was scummy and I never said he was a VI. If someone was a VI, that does not mean you should ignore it when they do scummy things.

Where did I ever say that VI’s can’t be scum or we should ignore their play?

ROFLMAO holy shit what a fucking god-awful LIE that was. RC was taking a TON OF SHIT because you were taking jabs at him and he replaced out BECAUSE HE COULDNT TAKE IT ANYMORE and because HE HAD A LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO LYNCH HIM LARGELY BASED ON HIS INTERACTONS WITH YOU. I was lynched almost immediately even though I did some decent scumhunting BASED OFF OF RC'S BEHAVIOR. TO SAY OTHERWISE IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE.

Here’s the link for those who want to observe for themselves.

For the record – the only vote you got right out of the gate after you replaced in was Empking’s. In fact it was Katsuki who got the first early wagon. It was only after you started posting that heat came your way. You made your own grave there.

I never said Fate and Benmage were easy targets, learn to read. I said you were trying to stir shit up between them LIKE YOU DID WITH RC.

1. Asking them about their reads / interactions with each other isn’t ‘stirring things up’. It’s scum-hunting. Should I scream mis-rep like you now?
2. How is my direct attack on ReaperCharlie in that game in any way similar to my play here? You are trying to say I am ‘stirring things up’ like I did there yet in that game I went head to head calling him scum. It’s not analogues at all and your attempts to make it so are scummy.

--

My counterargument to VJ was that a scum slip is as likely, if not MORE likely, than "scum-Yates" trying to fabricate a bs "slip" in order to get someone lynched.

Well I don’t know how you are quantifying this other than based on knowing your own role PM but meh.

The point, I am restating, is that I think you screwed up by pointing to two games where you acted a certain way and in both instances ended up being scum.

And my counter-point is that it makes no sense for me, as scum, to actively call that other game to anyone’s attention. Ben clearly wasn’t going to go looking for it. Why would I, as scum, not tell him to do it himself as opposed to doing all the legwork?

A. How many games do YOU think it takes to make that evidence stronger? 4? 5? If you were scum in 1 out of 3, I wouldn't pay it any attention. The fact that you are 2 for 2? Yeah. That's at LEAST a trend.

More than 2, clearly. If you want to argue that that a Trend is meaningful to alignment you can. I know it isn’t. The whole premise is that I am ‘uncomfortable opening the game’ which really doesn’t speak to reality given my strong success as Mafia in games and the fact that I’ve never been lynched as Scum early in the game.

A. My argument was that it wasn't scummy for knox not to put you at L-1 as you seemed to imply. Her stated reason "wanting to extend the day" made sense at the time for the reasons I have already stated [low content, low activity from numerous slots, etc]. The fact that you were unmoving on this point raised the hairs on the back of my neck. If you are going to make a statement like that, you need to know someone may call your bluff. I called it. It's as simple as that. If you get lynched and flip scum, knox's stated reason for not wanting to put you at L-1 would need to be reexamined as AT THAT POINT it would begin to look fishy. I've already stated all of this but there it is again.

Well you point is pretty bad then. Town has no reason to worry about putting someone they think is scum at L-1 period. The rest of your post here pre-supposes that I flip scum. You aren’t bothering to look from the standpoint of Town making the statement I did.

[Yates]

You aren’t bothering to look from the standpoint of Town making the statement I did.

This much is true. When I start pushing cases on people I think are scummy I look at their posts as if they are scum. I also understand your counter-point about self-meta. So I guess I will just ask you outright; why *did* you post two games that you opened this way knowing you flipped scum in both? You *had* to have known someone would call you out on that.

[Yates]

I asked you how he was sheeping

I showed you where I brought it up. That's my answer. I am not going to indulge you in another three pages of semantic arguments.

Why are YOU avoiding MY question? If you thought he

wasn't

sheeping, why would you not ask me about the sheeping for 150 posts?

[Korlash]

I showed you where I brought it up. That's my answer. I am not going to indulge you in another three pages of semantic arguments.

Why are YOU avoiding MY question? If you thought he wasn't sheeping, why would you not ask me about the sheeping for 150 posts?

I asked you to justify your accusations, being unable to do so proves those accusations were false and suggests you had malicious intent when making them. I'll ask you one last time, how was he sheeping?

And I answered your question. If you found it to be unacceptable, fine, I'll dive a little deeper. 143 posts ago you posted a picture of sheep in response to V2V. I'm not going to step into your discussion over that, it was a worthless 'post' with no meaning at the time, and whatever substance it had was directed towards V2V. If you had turned it into a real attack or a real point, maybe I would have seen something worth discussing. Now, however, 143 posts later, you use it as a 'real' point in what amounts to a 'case' on V2V. Now that it is a point against him that you are presenting to the rest of us, I need to see justification for it. Since you have none (apparently) you're now stuck with the stigma of having pushed false accusations onto a player.

[PeregrineV]

@MoI- My point was that it was situational. You were in the situation of imminent death, where your contribution would have more weight, esp. if you flipped town. You saying the same thing now has immensely less impact.

And I will circle back to the crux of my question. Why refuse the town what could potentially be your "last thoughts"?

[MagnaofIllusion]

This much is true. When I start pushing cases on people I think are scummy I look at their posts as if they are scum. I also understand your counter-point about self-meta. So I guess I will just ask you outright; why *did* you post two games that you opened this way knowing you flipped scum in both? You *had* to have known someone would call you out on that.

I did so because I have nothing to hide. Simple as that. There is no Pro-Town reason to not show links to things if you are Town even if they don’t favor you. This is one of the reasons I am so suspect of Benmage – he’s pushed multiple ‘reference’ posts attacking me for things and failed each time to show links. So far when I have called him on it he’s tried to sideline the issue (saying things like “I never refused to show links”) and revising his posts (Oops it wasn’t Supernatural it was A Storm of Swords. Oops nevermind you were not Town there, don’t I look foolish). And when I show him he’s not correct he doesn’t change his read – he still clining to the undermining point even when I pointed out his support was based on incorrect facts.

Yates when you get a chance please read pappums and Benmage and give me your thoughts.

Also one thing I think you missed in your recap to me – why did you make the assertion that Vijay’s suspicion of you was driven by OMGUS for an off-handed post you made early in the game?

[MagnaofIllusion]

And I will circle back to the crux of my question. Why refuse the town what could potentially be your "last thoughts"?

And I'll repeat, ONCE AGAIN, my response to this - I was not worried at all about having time to post my final thoughts even if you hammered. Period. Last time I address this.

Also - why, if you were asking for my 'last thoughts' did you not express an intent to hammer. That's pretty much site standard for when people claim and give last thoughts here on MS. The closest you got was giving a wishy-washy "I'm debating it" comment.

[PeregrineV]

And I will circle back to the crux of my question. Why refuse the town what could potentially be your "last thoughts"?

And I'll repeat, ONCE AGAIN, my response to this - I was not worried at all about having time to post my final thoughts even if you hammered. Period. Last time I address this.

Also - why, if you were asking for my 'last thoughts' did you not express an intent to hammer. That's pretty much site standard for when people claim and give last thoughts here on MS. The closest you got was giving a wishy-washy "I'm debating it" comment.

I did. I even included myself on the wagon to analyze.

@MoI- Pretend this is the final day1 VC

MOI 7 - vijay2vansandani, Pizza, Benmage, Fate, pappums rat,Yates, PeregrineV
Korlash 2 - Istark, Korlash,
vijay 1 - Shotgun
IStark 1 - Knox
BenMage 1 - MOI,

Not Voting-The Jester

Who are town and why?
Who are scum and why?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I did. I even included myself on the wagon to analyze.

No, you said "Hey, pretend this happens". That's not saying "I intend to hammer". If that was what you were going for I suggest in the future you be a bit more direct and clear.

[PeregrineV]

@MoI-
Who are town and why?
Who are scum and why?

[Pizzadudes7]

pizza

I would say that this scum is here, but then you will just say "OH LOOK, HE ADMITTED IT!"

[Yates]

Yates when you get a chance please read pappums and Benmage and give me your thoughts.

I'll need to do a lot of rereading but I am willing accommodate this request if you do the same. And please include VJ and Kolash as well.

Also one thing I think you missed in your recap to me – why did you make the assertion that Vijay’s suspicion of you was driven by OMGUS for an off-handed post you made early in the game?

I couldn't think of another reason and he didn't provide me with one. That was pretty much the only interaction I had with him until his vote.

Which segues in to my response to Korlash regarding the sheeping comment.

@ Korlash - Do an ISO on him. He had 10 posts before his vote on me and the first 2 were RVS stuff. Then he found the "MoI Slip" re unfunny comedians. Then he backtracked after my post when a few people agreed with my post. 3 posts talking about the scumminess of MoI and him possibly being a bomb. Then he buddies up to you saying he's funnier. The first time he even mentions my slot is when he quotes MoI for calling me out on the L-1 business before I had a chance to respond. He says he had me Town before that in his post 5 minutes later. His next post is 10 hours later, after all of our back and forth, and votes me stating, "

I can see why Yates thinks it's a slip

but honestly it's too blatant to be an actual slip, more likely a weird grammatical error." That does not strike me as an actual reason for a vote. The only thing that had changed was you decided to crusade for MoI, Hence the sheep image.

You are also wrong. I did not present a case on VJ. Mini Librarian mentioned that he though VJ was scummy. You seem to be ignoring the ever important first two sentences in the post:

No sir, I don't like him [VJ]. But he probably isn't going to be my vote for today.

...as well as the last half of the final sentence:

I don't recall him doing anything that stands out as lynch worthy yet.

So why are you misrepping my statements?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Pizza - why exactly aren't you voting your scum suspects?

[Yates]

@MOI:

pappums read:

#27 - "I'm not seeing any slip." - Town
#62 - "Bad arguments dont equal scum arguments." - Even if you don't agree with his assessment, that's a Town statement.
#62 - "I think the debate between Benmage and Korlash looks like town vs. town." - Meh. Null?
#126 - "I have played a number of games with MoI, and this performance does not look like one of his town games to me." - I actually agree with this statement.
#159 - "Attacking players strongly isnt the issue here, it is the goading and trying to stir up shit." - I also agree with to an extent. I say to an extent because I have seen you do this as Town even though it seems counter-productive. Given the context provided in 126, though, I see where this could be a valid point.
#228 - "I dont believe this is a scum slip." - He defended you after calling you scum and later in the same thread calls you flailing scum that needs a hammer. While confusing, I can't see scum motivation in defending a point on someone he is voting for that he wants hammered.
#241 - "This is a really terrible argument." - Obviously, I like this post. VJ has yet to offer a good argument of his own creation. Even his "MoI slip" post was just terrible logic. Terrible.
#277 - "Vote: pizzadudes" - What I like about this post is that he offers additional insight besides simply quoting someone else's case. I kind of forgot pizza was in this game, tbh, and this makes me want to look at him in ISO too.
#277 - "I doubt that MoI and Yates are on the same team. I think if one flips town, the other will flip scum." - I think we agree on this. I'm not ready to call it "lining up lynches" just yet but, yeah, this is not good logic.
#298 - "Neither of you have flipped yet, so I am not trying to make connections between you." - Is the only statement I had a problem with as he clearly connected us in #277.
#349 - "Wiktionary's definition for doubt" - Busting out wiki [like a semantic argument] *is* a bit scummy. Then again, it's equally likely the defensive posture of pissed off Town. And, to one of his points, you *did* put words in his mouth.
#355 - "That is pretty much Korlash's reasoning behind it." - Yup.
#359 - "I do believe Benmage asked you a question regarding something similar that MoI did" - This looks evasive on the face of it. Again, though, it is equally likely frustrated Town.
#361 - "Succinctness is protown." - Yup.
#374 - "Why I think MoI is scum" - At least he is on record and has made his own reads and arguments.
#375 - "I never said Korlash's posts became suspect, I said he is now null to me, meaning I had lost the initial townread I had on him." - Maybe.
#376 - @Korlash, "You hold double standards, one for yourself and one for other players." - Fact.

Bottom Line: He is not on my scum radar. This has been a challenging game for me as I don't have any strong Town reads, but he would be among my strongest.

I'm going straight from work to dinner to my brew club meeting in about 15 minutes so my other reads [Ben, Korlash, VJ] will have to wait. Plus, the Korlash ISO is going to be painful to get through.

[drmyshotgun]

@MoI-
Who are town and why?
Who are scum and why?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'll need to do a lot of rereading but I am willing accommodate this request if you do the same. And please include VJ and Kolash as well.

I'll agree to ISO VJ and Korlash for you if that is what you are asking.

[Yates]

I'll agree to ISO VJ and Korlash for you if that is what you are asking.

I'm just asking for YOUR reads on these guys as quid pro quo.