NY 151: Playground Mafia (Game Over-Mafia Win!)

[Kublai Khan]

I'm still confused as to whether you think I'm scum or not.

I'm not entirely sure either. I'm leaning scum though.

[redFF]

Alright because you voted me, then said I was a dead end, then said I wasn't scum, then said I was scum, sk or vig and now you're leaning scum.

You're flip-flopping around a lot over a short period of time.

[drmyshotgun]

Alright because you voted me, then said I was a dead end, then said I wasn't scum, then said I was scum, sk or vig and now you're leaning scum.

You're flip-flopping around a lot over a short period of time.

Somehow, this is the truth.

[StrangerCoug]

Continuing on through the end of page 29:

#385: Understandable.
#391: Sold on Candy Corn Vampire's scumminess.
#393: You're still not doing much.
#399: Why should she? The shape of the Earth is not relevant to a Large Normal.
#408: Lady Lambdadelta did not give a comprehensive case of the shape of the Earth because it would be a waste of her time. That it is an oblate spheroid and that drmyshottyizsik is a VI are both common knowledge, while arguably true, is not valid justification for thinking LadyLambdadelta scummy for your refusal to explain why shotty is a VI (even though, as phrased, it's not a useful question anyway—it literally asks for what reason shotty is a VI, implying that it is a conscious choice that only drmyshottyizsik is qualified to explain).
Top of page 18: redFF is doing better. I like the push on CCV.
#431: This is a bit mindscrewy to me. You unvoted because you got too much support for the Kublai Khan wagon? Explain how that works to me.
#439: Flippant.
Top of page 19: Lady Lambdadelta vs. mastin2 comes off town vs. town to me.
Mid-top page 20: redFF vs. Firestarter stands out to me. While I think redFF is pretty much redeemed, I'm having a hard time deciding what to make of Firestarter here.
#488: As much as I hate Nero Cain's push on drmyshottyizsik, the latter makes a poor response to the former in this post. I can see how it can be a crossbus.
#497: I can make heads and tails out of the vote reason, though I think questioning a town read on yourself is more anti-town than strictly scummy.
#517: I don't like how the vote on Pine comes off. By itself, it seems like he's drawing a name out of a hat. (Then again, it's getting my bedtime here.)
#525: Why don't you want your posts read?
#532: No you are not.
#537 and #538: Despite my reading this with the knowledge that rack flipped down, I really cannot fault Macros here.
#577: I don't like the response to Macros here. Macros tries to get DeasVail to think on his own and DV responds back by voting him.
#583: Fluff.
#590: How should Benmage know?
#593: Possible, but needs further investigation.
#610: This post makes me want to blow Nero Cain's head off. He has yet to realize that we are not going to cater to his hatred and he's

STILL

doing this crap on page 25.
#611: Amen, sister.
#619: Vague.
#625: Looks like I replaced in on solid ground.
#657: I don't follow. A crummy vote, yes. A joke vote, I fail to see that.
#672: Not a big fan of the disclaimer. I also see a contradiction in the Nero Cain read.
Bottom of page 28/Top of page 29: Poor response by DeasVail to Junpei. You don't care that what you're saying is flawed!?
#720: The post sticks out, but I'm getting a neutral. mastin2 obviously isn't new, but that may be Junpei's point. The main thing I want to probe is why he thinks wiping everybody's slate clean and rereading is scummy.

As it stands, Nero Cain is my top scum read; DeasVail, and Psyche are good lynches in my opinion as well. I will not vote until done catching up, though.

[Maxous]

Can somebody give me a tl;dr of red-scum?

So far I have got:
- he is dodging questions (in an obvious manner)
- Being annoying and saying people should'nt question his lordship.
- Having a town (or non-scum read) on rack which KK does'nt agree to the logic too.

Don't see why this is scum.

@SC: Why are you writing comments about CCV?

[DeasVail]

StrangerCoug:

Why didn't you see who died before reading through?

[PeregrineV]

Vote Count 2-3

(as of Post 1455)

Pine (4)

- Maxous, scooby, The Mini-Librarian, Kublai Khan

mastin2 (3)

- Pine, Junpei, DeasVail

redFF (3)

- Code_X, drmyshottyizsik, drmyshotgun

Junpei (3)

- Lady Lambdadelta, mastin2, HezLucky

The Mini-Librarian(1)

- Nero Cain

Firestarter (1)

- redFF

DeasVail (1)

- Psyche

Not Voting (5)

- Benmage, Firestarter, StrangerCoug, FakeGod, Macros

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to lynch

Deadline:

Thursday, May 11, 2012 3pm CST

Replacing:

Macros

Prods:

Firestarter
Pine
scooby

V/LAs:

FakeGodMay 3

[Pine]

Didn't realize I was up for prod. I've been keeping up, this clusterfuck is just making me super apathetic.

Still pretty certain that Mastin is the way to go.

[drmyshotgun]

Scooby needs to get replaced.

[Code_X]

im guessing ah was a vig?

It's your conclusion that Antihero was a vig target that convinced me to not pursue you. It's such a mind-blowingly stupid conclusion that it could only have been formed by inside knowledge that I'm not privy to. Which means you are either a vig, a mafioso, or a SK.

So what is it?

Red - do you think Mastin's 6 scum is correct? A slip or not?

@ Everyone voting Pine. What is the actual case against him? FWIW's I don't find him scummy. More just fed-up.

Unvote

for now.

[DeasVail]

I'd usually say Pine being fed up is a towntell, but I've seen scum act that way before, so am avoiding thinking it town. I think he's an alright wagon. RedFF not so much, but don't care about my opinion on him. I really don't mind the idea of Mastin as scum because of his desire to change his playstyle, while still (seemingly) sticking to the same way of playing.

His answer to my question whether the wagon influenced his posting should be a obvious yes, so his "no" is scummy and only adds to the likelihood in my opinion that he was making more of an effort to look town after being put under pressure. Also, mastin-town (especially if he's considering a playstyle-change) would be more focused on making his posting more concise and more effective in persuading others. The sheer amount instead suggests scum under pressure wanting to post as much content as possible (which I myself am quite eager to do as scum) without actually caring about who listens to it.

[Nero Cain]

#140: I'm starting to see a redFF-Nero Cain connection here. Both want drmyshottyizsik policy lynched and neither are doing anything to convince anybody that he's actually scum, with Nero Cain trying to shift burden onto NihilisticNinja and redFF trying to stifle discussion.

What the hell? A PL has nothing to do with being scum. You should know that, LLD should know that. This kind of discussion makes me think ya'll are defending for the towncred.

You are not reading. "I think your reasoning for wanting to lynch drmyshottyizsik is crap" ≠ "I think drmyshottyizsik is town." The only thing I have done that could remotely be considered as me passing any sort of judgment on drmyshottyizsik yet is agree with Benmage's statement that his first sentence in the first post of his ISO is fluff. You two could be bussing him for all I know.

No.

YOU

are not reading. This response makes no sense. You said that if me an red want a PL on shotty we should start explaining why he's scummy. You know darn well that a PL has absolutely nothing to do with scumminess. Then you cry "I NEVER SAID THAT I FELT SHOTTY WAS TOWN!!!" I said absolutely nothing about you finding shotty town. The hell did you get that? On second thought perhaps you got it from the town cred part. Regardless, a PL has nothing to do with him being scummy and it looks like you are defending him.

[redFF]

im guessing ah was a vig?

It's your conclusion that Antihero was a vig target that convinced me to not pursue you. It's such a mind-blowingly stupid conclusion that it could only have been formed by inside knowledge that I'm not privy to. Which means you are either a vig, a mafioso, or a SK.

So what is it?

Red - do you think Mastin's 6 scum is correct? A slip or not?

@ Everyone voting Pine. What is the actual case against him? FWIW's I don't find him scummy. More just fed-up.

Unvote

for now.

I think Mastin's musings on how many scum we have is pointless conjecture at this point.

[drmyshottyizsik]

I'm still confused as to whether you think I'm scum or not.

He already said he didn't. But I do. Town would scum hunt and not try to keep the attention on himself when someone already told them they didn't think they were scum.

[redFF]

Code_x, I think you should take a look at who else is voting me, then strongly reconsider the positioning of your vote. That's the last I'll do to defend myself.

KK's flip flopping on me over such a short period of time is definitely scum motivated.

Could someone please make a mastin case that doesn't revolve around him posting walls (he always does) or whether him saying there are 6 scum is a slip or not. Or is that the case?

Prod induced post.

Contribution in the next day or so.

It's been 4 days brah.

Firestarter has been lurking since I made a case on him and refuted his defense, i can't provide anything more because there is no other content, here is my case once again.

Firestarted came into the thread very late and posts his catchup post, which is literally just a summary of the game.

Then lists a reasonless scum read on rack(of course, when everyone else is doing it, why not?)

I thought this part of his post was particularly silly

Nero Cain - Scum-read

The Shotty incident. PL'ing him. Not gonna happen.
You say you were not the one to bring up the idea that shotty should be PL'ed.
But you grabbed the baton and ran with it anyway.
When you were quizzed on it, you failed to deliver anything in the way of proof that shotty
was a VI. Yes, those who were questioning you could have looked for it themselves,
but the BoP lies with you.

redFF - Null-read

On my re-read, I found this slot to be one of the tougher reads for some reason.
As I've said before, the whole Policy Lynching thing is not my bag.
I disagree with it, but as stand alone point in ones ISO, not worthy of being called scum for.

So nero cain is a scumread for
- wanting to pl shotty
- saying he was not the one who brought it up (which is true)
- "grabbing the baton and running with it" (he never denied this)
- failing to prove how

shotty

is a bad player... (hint that's something he doesn't need to prove, even looking at only shotty's posts from this game)
So all that makes nero cain a scumread, K.

Now I'm a null read, even though nero seems to be a scumread purely from pushing a policy lynch, and firestarter says

As I've said before, the whole Policy Lynching thing is not my bag.
I disagree with it, but as stand alone point in ones ISO, not worthy of being called scum for.

???

As for his other reads, scum read on psyche, one of the bigger pushers of rack all game. You can't really have a scumread on both of them buddy.

And then town reads on LLD and NN, 2 of the more active players in the game, both seemingly widely regarded as town. He had to list some town reads so why not list the 2 easiest town reads in the game right now.

NihilisticNinja

- Town-read
Content, probing, analysing. All town traits thus far.

Lady Lambdadelta

- Town-read
Like NN, LLD has been providing content, probing and questioning away. All Town traits.

Blatant buddying here.
And then a town read on KK, guess who else has a town read on KK? LLD.

Kublai Khan

- Town-read
Most of what KK has written so far I agree with, except maybe the stance on scooby.

With this, I don't see how you can have a town read on KK and null reads on the majority of the playerlist. Reasons for the town read on kk that aren't "I'm buddying up to LLD" please.

He did not really address the majority of this post at all.

Well he did say this

RedFF - First of all, the summary is for me. It may help others in the future, but what I always do, WHAT I ALWAYS DO, is post my thoughts in-game.

Regarding my rack vote, momentum was gathering and he just happened to be a scum read of mine.
(I assume you have by now, seen my subsequent post after I gave out my reads, that my lists were in no particular order?)

At the time I posted my reads, Psyche had about 3 posts? None with any real content except a rack vote.
rack had been gathering momentum so scum coming into the game and slapping a vote onto a player that was on the way to being
bandwagoned looked opportunistic. iirc correctly I was read up to #229.
At that time Psyche WAS NOT one of the bigger pushers of rack - this is lies.
Regarding Nero & you, red, on the PL issues... It's more a gut feeling I have.
You've been quite brazen about wanting a shotty PL, whereas Nero got very defensive about it.
So, Nero remains a scum-read, you a null-read.

He still doesn't actually justify the rack vote (happened to be a scumread is not justification). He say's psyche is bussing with the 3rd vote of day 1, and doesn't actually provide any reasoning for nero being a scumread except saying that our approaches towards a policy lynch were different with no evidence. Go read my first post on him again and see how much of it he actually addressed. The answer is very little. This is dodging, KK voted me for much less, what's the difference KK?

I implore the solidly town players here like LLD/mastin/SC/code_x/hez(?) to consolidate on a decent wagon like this one. I hope this post will gain some votes to stop firestarter proddodging and lurking, if not get a lynch. It probably won't though, with how this game has progressed so far. I'd be willing to vote a few people if this doesn't take off. Pine/kk/macros/shotty come to mind.

[The Mini-Librarian]

@KK: So you think redff is scum, but you don't want to vote him because you think he's going to get nk'ed? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Tell me how that is a town move please.

[mastin2]

I implore the solidly town players here like LLD/mastin/SC/code_x/hez(?) to consolidate on a decent wagon.

I'm on Junpei. I could also go onto Pine if needed, though I prefer Junpei over Pine. If I could GET a KK wagon, I'd be oh so happy to join it, but there's just not enough support for it, yet. Similar trend for TML and probably Macros's slot.

There MIGHT be enough for a shotty lynch, but people would probably cry, "But he's a VI!" (To which I'd disagree, point to his play, and say, "Anything but!"; I quite frankly don't see any idiot in his posts.)
Or "There's not enough evidence!" (That's because shotty hasn't posted enough for there to BE much more evidence; it looks quite intentional that shotty's giving as little content as he can get away with.)

Or "There's not really a case!" (To which I'd respond, "There's plenty enough of a case if you bother to read the players who are suspicious of him and have given reasoning.")

Y'know, similar BS protests like that.


But Firestarter I see as town. I'll do what I can to contribute, but I'm not only AFLT (where my QT and therefore case is), but also going into the worst section of my V/LA today, so there's not much I can do.

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: So you think redff is scum, but you don't want to vote him because you think he's going to get nk'ed? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Tell me how that is a town move please.

Look, it's not LYLO right now. When there are two killing groups.

Those two groups do not have the same win conditions

. And it's very much in their benefit to eliminate any other killing groups because someone with a killing ability can present a more potent threat because then someone who has to convince other people to help kill (aka lynching).

redFF's certainty that Antihero is a vig shot is not natural. It means that he most likely has inside information that's fueling his conclusion.

In the slim chance that he's a town vig and Antihero was his target, then I didn't want to draw too much attention except you, redFF, and drmyshotgun have been prodding me to provide more information. But whatever. So if scum kill redFF-vig, it's not overall a big loss because Antihero was a terrible NK target.

If redFF is a SK or scum, then the vijay2vasandani killer(s) will eliminate redFF because it furthers their win condition.

So like I fucking said. I'm backing off redFF and waiting to see if the problem resolves itself. Whether or not he's scum is irrelevant. He's NK-bait.

[mastin2]

Here, have a quickly typed case against shotty. That is, drmyshottyizsik to make sure you understand, not drmyshotgun (who is confirmed town).

-"Why's he scum?"
Look at my post 1260 (isolation # 100) for the case. (I can't link to stuff because right clicking doesn't work on the computer I'm currently on.)

-"But...but he's a VI! An idiot!"
Point one--VIs can still be scum; that does not give them a free pass.
Point two--I've got a player saying that this alleged VI is playing to his scum meta.
Point three--when you ISO him, does he look like an idiot? Does he look like a VI at all, in fact? Or do his posts look like they are all furthering a scum wincon?

-"You don't have much of a case against him!"
That's because there isn't that many posts from him. That itself should set off warning bells. He's not posting often, and when he does, he's contributing little if anything, most of it being parrotting what others have already said. He's both lurking and active lurking. Do these sound like things which further a town win? No? Yeah, didn't think so. He's posting with a scum mindset, to further a scum wincon of not getting lynched and preferably not getting nightkilled either: the butter zone of "suspicious enough to live, but not enough to lynch".

-"Couldn't you say much the same of other players in the game?" Yes and no. Yes, in general I could say many of the same about players above. No, I can't do it in a quick five minute case when I've literally just run out of times, especially not when I can't really think of which players it could apply to off the top of my head and would have to look each of 'em up.

Out of time, so not much more I can add, but you can get the general gist of why he's scumread # 4 on my list and I'd be happy to lynch him.

[drmyshottyizsik]

First off I'm not posting much due to not having internet atm, and having to bike down to the library to post.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Secondly that case is aweful.

[drmyshottyizsik]

ebwop: awful.

[kdowns]

Beat the Mod to announce my replacing in... /win

[PeregrineV]

kdowns replaces Macros

[redFF]

haha kdowns you sure showed him