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Post Post #425 (ISO) » Fri May 04, 2012 2:21 pm

Post by Korlash »

rat wrote:2. Slander? ROFLMAO. If you've been reading the game you would see that MoI has had the same sort of double standards about what is acceptable as Korlash has. Im not going to go dig through all these walls for you.


If you refuse to back up an accusation it becomes mere worthless slander. Refusal to support your accusations with evidence suggests one of the following:
A) You are not interested in the accusation you made, which is not what town do when they think they have found scum.
B) You have nothing to support it, and thus the accusation is nothing more than an attempt to slander the person you've attacked.
C) The attack you have presented is so bad/weak/wrong that attempting to back it up will show everyone else this is the case, so not backing it up is an attempt to avoid this.

Secondly, if you saw something and thus had notion to accuse someone of something then to back it up would not require you to "dig through these walls" since you have physically seen it all ready and should "know" where it is. (Or the general idea of where it is making finding it more easy than you're presenting it here)

Thirdly, if you are unable to remember where or when the examples are to reference, there is no reason you cannot remember the gist of what happened so you can describe the event. Doing this would put a small bit of burden on the people you attacked to defend themselves by looking the event up. Unless you can even muster this all burden of proof rests on you and your 'case', 'point', 'attack', or whatever you want to call it is proven shit because there is no supporting evidence.

This isn't a 'doubles standard' me and MOI have. It's good and proper play, end of story. And I defy you to find an instance of me or MOI ever neglecting to back up our attacks when asked to. Let alone when asked three fucking times.

Rat wrote:3. Someone doesnt need to do something inherently scummy for someone else to lose their townread of them.


This is true. What exactly did I do though to lose that town read?
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Post Post #426 (ISO) » Fri May 04, 2012 2:38 pm

Post by Korlash »

Yates wrote:Also, speaking of lining up lynches...
vijay2vasandani wrote:Guys, Yates is scummier than Pizza. Can we lynch him first? Promise we can kill pizza tomorrow.


Yeah... But not the same intent behind it as Rats. I actually find the 'kill'' tell a more damning factor in this post of his then the 'lining up lynches'.

v2V wrote:*sigh* case? My case is that you're fabricating a scumslip. I don't understand what else I can do. Sure you can defend yourself but I'm obviously not convinced. Like I said, it's a matter of who they believe.


For the record, is the entirety of the 'fabrication' argument simply that he's too good a player to have thought it was a legitimate slip? If so, I think saying he 'fabricated' it is a bit far. Pushing it while seeming to not care if it was true or not, sure... But outright fabricating it seems too hard to back up.

MOI wrote:Um, whut? Are you saying that actually building as case (as Town is the underlying premise here) doesn’t have to be in furtherance of finding scum? Aside from some really obtuse gambitting what purpose would you suggest as a viable and useful reason for building a case on someone you DON’T think is scum?


I left my statement open to allow for cases to be made on people you think are town. Mafia set-ups come in all shapes and sizes and you can't tell me arguing why you think someone is town couldn't be a major part of some game somewhere for some-reason. (obviously this doesn't outright apply to this game but like I said, I leave room in statements like this to account for any scenario possible.)

As far as not thinking someone is scum, you'll find my answer to be irrelevant but it's one I had to account for as well. Just because you find someone suspicious, doesn't mean you outright think they are scum. Thus, at the time of building a case, you don't have to actually think said person is scum. Given the situation I was discussing with Yates, I felt this actually applied.

I could dive further into the theory as well but it's not relevant here. (nor is the first paragraph all things considered but you asked for an answer so I gave it.)

@MOD:
Pizza has two wagons in the vote count.

Mod Note - Oops, fixed.
Last edited by jasonT1981 on Sat May 05, 2012 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #427 (ISO) » Sat May 05, 2012 3:18 am

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Yes MoI I am going to ignore you. Whether you're attacking me or not is irrelevant and your points don't have any merit by default because you are wrong.

If other non-Korlash people have issues with my posts I'll be more than happy to explain
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Post Post #428 (ISO) » Sat May 05, 2012 4:41 am

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Going to gym, and then dominating Mafia today. BE READY (and I swear to do more than talk about MoI)
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Post Post #429 (ISO) » Sat May 05, 2012 7:14 am

Post by pappums rat »

The Mini-Librarian wrote:Do you actually think you are helping the game at all if you refuse to repeat yourself or give examples? This game revolves around discussion. You are actively stifling discussion when you give coy responses and refuse to answer questions like this. So don't tell me to go read the fucking thread OK? You don't even have to repeat yourself fully, hell post numbers will work. Especially that double standards thing, because I don't see that at all. Enlighten me, convince me. Just snarkily saying "lol, read" isn't helping at all.

3: Can you explain how this works? I'm just not following how this makes any sense.

The simple answer is that I cbf to slog through 18 pages of wall posts to find specific examples. If people see this as antitown or scummy then so be it, but this game is wearing on me and I just dont have the energy to go back through all that again.

Regarding Korlash's town-to-null read: I am a gut player, and Korlash's back and forth looked like it came from town to me. However, as the game progressed, and as the walls kept mounting, I lost that initial read based mainly on the way Korlash used wallspam to muddle Redwall Mafia as scum.

MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Pappums wrote: 1. Yes, I certainly could have said that about pizza but I didnt. I said what I did about Yates and yourself based on your interactions. You havent really had any interactions with pizza, therefore no hint of a relational tell could be made in this regard. Yes, I said I wouldnt make decisions about scumbuddies until a flip, but that does not mean that I wont speculate in certain situations, especially when your interactions with Yates were as significant as they were.


Yes, but your reaction originally based on this statement rings false. You could have said “I don’t see enough possible connections to make that determination currently”. But your reaction was very much overblown “I don’t take your bait I never make scum-buddy determiniations before flips, OMG you are scum misrepping and stuff”. And then you find reason to do so with Yates (in saying we aren’t buddies).

Pappums wrote:2. You didnt, but you were ignoring pizza's scumminess and brushing it off with a ssimple "he's VI" statement.


As I asked Fate – do you disagree he is a VI? I will fully explain my position after you both answer.

Pappums wrote:3. Yeah, there wasnt an active large wagon on him at the very moment I entered, but he was many peoples' top scumread and were ready to lynch me for his actions (actions that you perpetuated). You are clearly trying to reinterperate the game in question for those in this game in a way that isnt factual.


Actually no, I think you are doing that. I’ve included the link so everyone can conclude for themselves. Suffice it to say that I don’t agree with your premise.

Pappums wrote:4. Yeah, different methods but the way I see it you are still trying to come up with the same results.


So in other words you are forced to concede you were making bad analogies but are going to just stick with your conclusion ‘because’. Quite scummy.

Pappums wrote:LOL you are so full of shit. It is obvious that is what PV meant, dont try to pass it off like you didnt know what he was intending.


Look – more NO U rhetoric. No, I am not full of shit and your constant assertion without being able to show otherwise is scummy.

Pappums wrote:2. Slander? ROFLMAO. If you've been reading the game you would see that MoI has had the same sort of double standards about what is acceptable as Korlash has. Im not going to go dig through all these walls for you.


Just like with Benmage – making blank assertions without providing back-up and further sticking to positions when your original premise is refuted isn’t a Town thought process.

1. Yes, I admit my reaction was probably a little overblown and based in confirmation bias.
2. I dont know whether I would consider pizza VI or not as I cant recall playing any games with him. In this game however, his actions look like active-lurking scum to me.
3. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on how that game played out, but I also encourage the other players of this game to review what happened in KGB Mafia and decide for yourself.
4. No I'm not saying I made bad analogies, Im saying I see the same thought process at work in both games.
5. So, you are honestly saying that you did not take PV's "imagine my vote on you to hammer" as expressing intent to hammer?
6. See my response to mini librarian regarding cbf.
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Post Post #430 (ISO) » Sat May 05, 2012 2:27 pm

Post by vijay2vasandani »

@ Fate: you said you would lynch Yates. Let's vote him. I'm tired.

@ Korlash: what are you on about? If he was pushing it will not seeming to care, then he must have believe it wasn't true, meaning it wasn't actually slip = fabricated no? Let's lynch Yates please.
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Post Post #431 (ISO) » Sat May 05, 2012 6:22 pm

Post by Korlash »

fate wrote:If other non-Korlash people have issues with my posts I'll be more than happy to explain


Aww, you don't want to play with me? D=

rat wrote:The simple answer is that I cbf to slog through 18 pages of wall posts to find specific examples. If people see this as antitown or scummy then so be it, but this game is wearing on me and I just dont have the energy to go back through all that again.


As I said before, if you 'actually' saw something worth accusing another player of you should at least be able to sum up the event/situation you saw it in without having to sludge back through the whole thread. This isn't something that will go away if you ignore it. Especially with the 'can't be fucked to do it' argument.

Looking through the thread to find a specific instance isn't nearly as difficult as you make it sound. If you know what you are looking for
and it actually exists
skimming through someone's ISO to find it should take no longer than 10 minutes at the most.

V2V wrote:@ Korlash: what are you on about? If he was pushing it will not seeming to care, then he must have believe it wasn't true, meaning it wasn't actually slip = fabricated no? Let's lynch Yates please.


You're using 'fabricated' as a buzz word. You cannot simplify what he did to mere 'fabrication' because it isn't. You can't show any evidence that is what he did, you wont make the attack stick nor gain any support from it, and most of all the scum slip you pushed at the start of the game is the exact same make and model as his, so calling his 'fabricated' makes yours look worse.

He pushed MOI as scum and when presented with evidence to suggest he was wrong he seemingly ignored it and continued to push the same point. This suggests he wasn't interested in the truth, but simply in making MOI look like scum.

That being said, Rat by far needs to die now in a hurry. So how about you leave Yates alone for now and just jump ship over here to the better scum, eh? eh? Come on... You know you want to. =D
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Post Post #432 (ISO) » Sat May 05, 2012 7:21 pm

Post by drmyshotgun »

Sorry, I got off track.
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Post Post #433 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 1:13 am

Post by Fate »

Last time I checked my Pizza wagon was much bigger than your one-man Yates wagon. No way I'm droppin my wagon on my main scumread for your sideshow, why don't YOU switchover and we'll see about Yates tomorrow.
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Post Post #434 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 1:14 am

Post by Fate »

I do Korlash, but only for your POSTS its never been about YOU.

THATS WHY I DONT LOOK AT YOU WHEN WERE HAVING
S
MAFIA ANYMORE
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Post Post #435 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 1:23 am

Post by vijay2vasandani »

... I think I'll stay here and wait it out. Remind me what the Pizza case is again?
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Post Post #436 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 1:31 am

Post by Korlash »

Fate wrote:I do Korlash, but only for your POSTS its never been about YOU.

THATS WHY I DONT LOOK AT YOU WHEN WERE HAVING S MAFIA ANYMORE


God Fate, You're worse than a rhino! *starts running away crying* What's wrong with things being about me? HUH? I'm the pretty one in this relationship!

V2V wrote:... I think I'll stay here and wait it out. Remind me what the Pizza case is again?


It's in the room mate agreement, section E, subsection Pi. It's mainly used to solve the old 'Chinese food again?' rebuttal and the infamous 'I'm starving' argument.

Or, if you don't get that:

It's a small box covered in pepperoni and cheese.... And I want one now... No, I want six...

(As dumb as this sounds... My jokes are probably the most legitimate 'case' on Pizza you're going to find... And they weren't even funny... How sad is that?)
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Post Post #437 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 1:54 am

Post by Fate »

vijay2vasandani wrote:... I think I'll stay here and wait it out. Remind me what the Pizza case is again?


Literally no attempt or sign of scumhunting so far. Makes useless questions to appear being "helpful and inquisitive" over-reaction to the vote I made on him.

Its pretty open and shut
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Post Post #438 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 4:53 am

Post by Pizzadudes7 »

Fate wrote:
vijay2vasandani wrote:... I think I'll stay here and wait it out. Remind me what the Pizza case is again?


Literally no attempt or sign of scumhunting so far. Makes useless questions to appear being "helpful and inquisitive" over-reaction to the vote I made on him.

Its pretty open and shut


Sorry, I was in the woods since Friday, but I'm back.

So, the actual case is that I don't post my scumspects therefore SCUM? Never have I seen a game where something like that was true.

Also, I think someone asked if I thought MoI was scum. If that was a question, I would say possibly, but no matter what I say, people will say we are partners.
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If someone broke something, blame either gravity or kdowns.

I am simply stating things that may or may not need to be changed through my thorough use of sarcasm, trolling, and all around bitchiness.
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Post Post #439 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 5:59 am

Post by Benmage »

Benmage wrote:Going to gym, and then dominating Mafia today. BE READY (and I swear to do more than talk about MoI)

^Fail.

Expect it to happen today.
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Post Post #440 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 6:44 am

Post by Fate »

Pizzadudes7 wrote:
Fate wrote:
vijay2vasandani wrote:... I think I'll stay here and wait it out. Remind me what the Pizza case is again?


Literally no attempt or sign of scumhunting so far. Makes useless questions to appear being "helpful and inquisitive" over-reaction to the vote I made on him.

Its pretty open and shut


Sorry, I was in the woods since Friday, but I'm back.

So, the actual case is that I don't post my scumspects therefore SCUM? Never have I seen a game where something like that was true.

Also, I think someone asked if I thought MoI was scum. If that was a question, I would say possibly, but no matter what I say, people will say we are partners
.


how is this shit still alive?
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Post Post #441 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 7:19 am

Post by Pizzadudes7 »

Sorry, am I not supposed to be honest? Seriously, answer this: If I say MoI is scum, won't you say I am bussing my partner? And if I were to say that he is 100% town, won't you say I am covering for my "scumbuddy?" Either way, there is no way for me to answer it, so I went off my gut instinct and said that he is probably scum, but I cannot be sure.
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If someone broke something, blame either gravity or kdowns.

I am simply stating things that may or may not need to be changed through my thorough use of sarcasm, trolling, and all around bitchiness.
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Post Post #442 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 10:17 am

Post by The Mini-Librarian »

Pizza stop whining.

Top 2 suspects and why please.
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Post Post #443 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 10:53 am

Post by MattP »

Ok, three things:

1) This is the most horrific and nauseating game I have ever tried to replace into / catch up on. I am 12 pages in and I am in pain.

2) This is clearly the MoI/Fate/Benmage show with guest appearances from meatpuppets 4 thru 13

3)
Vote: Pizza
because I cannot fucking wait and his response to Fate's vote on him made me piss blood

I will divulge more of my hatred for you all and the incestuousness I despise between MoI/Fate/Benmage when I return from my travels to Baltimore. That is all.
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Post Post #444 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 11:03 am

Post by Pizzadudes7 »

So, you hate MoI/Fate/Benmage but you vote me? Also, do you have anything besides I reacted weird to his vote? like anything we HAVEN'T used to make a case on me? And what happened to nothing swaying you from thinking MoI is scum?

As for my top 2 scumspects: I would say they would be Fate and Benmage. Fate because of his reactions to my posts, how all he does is scream at how much they stink and whatever. He continues to push a case that has nothing more than a bad reaction to a vote. Benmage because of the MoI vote thing that happened with him and me (where he challenged my MoI vote after he made his own).
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If someone broke something, blame either gravity or kdowns.

I am simply stating things that may or may not need to be changed through my thorough use of sarcasm, trolling, and all around bitchiness.
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Post Post #445 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 11:08 am

Post by MattP »

Pizzadudes7 wrote:
1)
So, you hate MoI/Fate/Benmage but you vote me?
2)
Also, do you have anything besides I reacted weird to his vote? like anything we HAVEN'T used to make a case on me?
3)
And what happened to nothing swaying you from thinking MoI is scum?

As for my top 2 scumspects: I would say they would be Fate and Benmage. Fate because of his reactions to my posts, how all he does is scream at how much they stink and whatever. He continues to push a case that has nothing more than a bad reaction to a vote. Benmage because of the MoI vote thing that happened with him and me (where he challenged my MoI vote after he made his own).

1)
Hate =/= scum

2)
No, not yet babe, I'll try harder to when I finish reading the thread.

3)
Oh well, I guess I'm a liar :roll:
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Post Post #446 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 12:15 pm

Post by vijay2vasandani »

Fate wrote:
vijay2vasandani wrote:... I think I'll stay here and wait it out. Remind me what the Pizza case is again?


Literally no attempt or sign of scumhunting so far. Makes useless questions to appear being "helpful and inquisitive" over-reaction to the vote I made on him.

Its pretty open and shut

Hmm. Okay then. Waiting for next VC and will decide from there. But really, let's get Yates after this.
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Post Post #447 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 12:18 pm

Post by drmyshotgun »

^So, you
are
hoping aboard Pizza wagon?
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Post Post #448 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 12:22 pm

Post by drmyshotgun »

So Pizza, Fate is scum because he is pushing your wagon with a bad case? I don't think you gave us plenty to go on with, but what you've indeed gave us was scummy.
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Post Post #449 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2012 12:37 pm

Post by Korlash »

Fate wrote:Literally no attempt or sign of scumhunting so far. Makes useless questions to appear being "helpful and inquisitive" over-reaction to the vote I made on him.


Your first two points are contradictory. he can't have "litterally no attempt at scum hunting" AND make questions to appear being helpful. Regardless of what you think of his questions, if you believe you made them for appearance's sake that is clearly an attempt at 'scumhunting' even if it is a fake one. How about when you figure out which of these points is the 'real' one you're going to stick to you come back and try it again?

And how exactly was it an 'over reaction'? Could you expand a little more on this one?

Ben wrote:^Fail.

Expect it to happen today.


Disappointed in you Ben, I was considering adding you to my list of role models... actually going to the Gym and then posting! I knew it was too good to be true... no one can do either of those... ;_;

Fate wrote:how is this shit still alive?


Because you're pushing it with a nearly nothing case what-so-ever and Pizza is clearly a "VI lynch". (note, I don't mean to say he's a VI, just that his wagon is one of those standard 'will certainly end in a mislynch just because we want him gone' type of deals. I normally wouldn't be against it just to start the game off but we have caught scum in Rat who needs to die asap.)

Matt wrote:I will divulge more of my hatred for you all and the incestuousness I despise between MoI/Fate/Benmage when I return from my travels to Baltimore. That is all.


D= My feelings, they are broken. ;_; When does Korlash get to be a named player...

Drmy wrote:So Pizza, Fate is scum because he is pushing your wagon with a bad case?


Just so I'm clear... Was this sarcasm or are you simply asking for clarification?
It's not my job to be right, it's my job to be convincing.

Star Trek Voyager Mafia! Ends in a Starfleet victory! Pomp, Circumstance, and Bloodwine for all!
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