NY 151: Playground Mafia (Game Over-Mafia Win!)

[PeregrineV]

Vote Count 2-4

(as of Post 1474)

Pine (4)

- Maxous, scooby, The Mini-Librarian, Kublai Khan

mastin2 (3)

- Pine, Junpei, DeasVail

Junpei (3)

- Lady Lambdadelta, mastin2, HezLucky

redFF (2)

- drmyshottyizsik, drmyshotgun

The Mini-Librarian(1)

- Nero Cain

Firestarter (1)

- redFF

DeasVail (1)

- Psyche

Not Voting (5)

- Benmage, Firestarter, StrangerCoug, FakeGod, kdowns, Code_X

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to lynch

Deadline:

Thursday, May 11, 2012 3pm CST

Replacing:

Firestarter

Prods:

scooby

V/LAs:

PeregrineV May 6

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: Why are you writing comments about CCV?

Because one, I really only skimmed the player list, and two, because replacing out does not void my opinions on a player.

StrangerCoug:

Why didn't you see who died before reading through?

Similar to the above. I only skimmed the player list and I'm allowed to have opinions about the dead. (I only have "rack" and "the masons" as my mental notes on who is dead.)

No.

YOU

are not reading. This response makes no sense. You said that if me an red want a PL on shotty we should start explaining why he's scummy. You know darn well that a PL has absolutely nothing to do with scumminess. Then you cry "I NEVER SAID THAT I FELT SHOTTY WAS TOWN!!!" I said absolutely nothing about you finding shotty town. The hell did you get that? On second thought perhaps you got it from the town cred part. Regardless, a PL has nothing to do with him being scummy and it looks like you are defending him.

That I "know darn well that a PL has absolutely nothing to do with scumminess" is exactly why I find

YOU

scummy. Policy lynches rarely work. Even if it nets us a scum lynch, there still must be sound reasoning behind the policy lynch for us to get much information; that drmyshottyizsik is far from the sharpest knife in the drawer does not qualify. redFF has since relented and moved on; you, on the other hand, are still running your hate machine and expect us to fuel it. For me to defend drmyshottyizsik, I have to dispute that he is scummy. I am not doing so; in fact, I have come to my own conclusions as to why he is scummy (ironically, how he is responding to you; since I'm looking at the page your post is on, I can tell everybody that he's not responding admirably to mastin2, either). Try looking deeper than a player attacking a case on another player before assuming that it's a chainsaw defense.

I have dishes again, so catch-up time will have to wait.

[StrangerCoug]

Pages 30 to 35:

#732: I'm having trouble understanding the first sentence; could you clarify?
#735: WIFOM.
#758: Fluff at best. I want to say "appeal to fear" as well, but I'm not sure that's the right term. This slips redFF back down a bit.
#760: Something against Nero Cain that isn't remotely about policy lynches for once, but is still about a lynch. My first impression was a feel that NC is being flip-floppy about rack; upon immediate reread, he seems complacent about what he thought would be (and now knows is) a mislynch, calling him useless. This reads like scum trying to stay off a wagon he knows will flip town.
#772: If rack were still alive, I'd be yelling at DeasVail for applying stall tactics here. Since rack has since died, I'm trying to decide if this is the same problem I have with Nero Cain.
#777: I think the "pressure votes are meaningless without intent to lynch" shtick here is well-intended, but it fails to take into account that you can attack two people at one time. We are open-minded.
#782: How the hell do you get this? He thinks your number of scum on the rack wagon is too high. That's different from thinking you think there's scum on the rack wagon at all.
Bottom of page 32/Top of page 33: While I have a town read on Kublai Khan and a scum read on Psyche, their argument here really doesn't tip the balance in either direction. I find Kublai Khan's statement that Psyche quoted the answers to his questions flawed, but otherwise the case is good.
#809 and #810: Something pings here, but I can't quite pin it.
#838: This is a playstyle attack. Walls are pretty typical of Mastin.
#847: Stating that there are most likely two teams of four scum based on site meta and denying that there is one team of eight scum are legitimately two different things. I don't like that you're trying to pit the statements as contradictory.
#857: This is an overreaction to something that is clearly a joke.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm unable to get anything from page 36 to the flip, so this is for Day 2 up to page 50... with guess what?

#1014: The lurking accusation against LLD rings false. Regarding the comment about Lady Lambdadelta asking people to replace out, two of them make sense to me. She asked Nero Cain to replace out once GreyICE replaced in as he seemed to find GI intolerable, and she tried to get the mod to replace redFF for the homophobic slur, to which she should not have been subjected (and neither should have anybody else). Only mastin2 has been asked to replace out for reasons I cannot comprehend as townie.
#1024: No more reason to vote this slot.
#1027: How do you get this?
#1039: Dear God, I hate meta.
#1053: I fail to see how HezLucky is applying a double standard. Could you show this to me?
#1060: Why does pushing the Lady Lambdadelta case without knowing the nightkills make no sense?
#1081: I'm not liking the doubting Thomas here.
#1124: Good point.
#1129: The explanation of how a mason QT is very difficult to fake is obvtown.
#1132: The town read on mastin2, however, screws up here. Previously, you entertained both two teams of four and a single team of six; you're now saying it's the latter as if you know this.
#1135: A terrible Lady Lambdadelta case.

• What's on the label is not what's in the tin regarding what Lady Lambdadelta thinks about town reads. He bolds her statement that she thinks hydras outing heads is townie, which is entirely different from explaining town reads and therefore is compatible with her refusal for the latter.
  
• I have reservations about Lady Lambdadelta butting up to Antihero and then Antihero dying being inherently scummy. It's possible, but alone it tells me nothing.
  
• #1058 regards an entirely different wagon than Nero Cain discusses, his instead of her own.

#1136: Why are there blank player slots in the first spoiler?
#1157: I'm not that much happier about the numbers slip. The two-team possibility previously considered is not addressed in any way whatsoever.
#1162: Not what I get from Junpei's post.
#1164 and #1170: I could have sworn mastin2 was in Mafia 91, which had two teams of four, under his original account. I'd have to double-check that game, though, and it was a 30-player game instead of a 24-player game anyway.
#1183: Thanks! If anyone wants me to repost my previous catchup posts with the post links inserted, please let me know.
#1196: The last sentence tells me nothing.
#1197: How so?
#1203: I believe the claim.
#1235: I like the strong push on Junpei here.

[Junpei]

Hurah, links! Now I can actually follow your thoughts.

Do you really think that Ben, GI and LLD are all town?

That's a fundamentally terrible question which doesn't need to be answered.

If he were to ask, do you think X is town? What about Y? And Z? It would have been fine, although in order for that to happen he'd need a reason for those reads.

What Nero did was say "Do you really think that X Y and Z could not contain at least 1 scum?" which is fundamentally flawed because it assigns arbitrary groups to a playerlist which should be assessed individually, not in sets. The purpose here is to make the set of XYZ appear to be scummy as a set, which is fundamentally flawed because mafia are investigated individually.

[StrangerCoug]

Hurah, links! Now I can actually follow your thoughts.

If anyone wants me to repost my previous catchup posts with the post links inserted, please let me know.

What Nero did was say "Do you really think that X Y and Z could not contain at least 1 scum?" which is fundamentally flawed because it assigns arbitrary groups to a playerlist which should be assessed individually, not in sets. The purpose here is to make the set of XYZ appear to be scummy as a set, which is fundamentally flawed because mafia are investigated individually.

OK, this makes sense.

[Junpei]

I would prefer you post links, but honestly if you intend to do an overall catchup post that includes reads that gets your point across then you don't have to. Basically, I mostly won't be digging through your earlier notes (until later in the game if applicable), so do what you think will get your points across, if you feel you need to link those posts to do that, then so be it. It's your call, I don't know how important those notes are.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, I'd like to be clearly understood, so...

#37 I disagree here. As much as the top of page 2 stands out to me, I don't really think it is of any help in determining anyone's alignment.
#46: You had better not be serious.
#57: Good point about Benmage.
Mid-page 3: Yes, drmyshottyizsik is a VI. No, that does not mean that you can insult him or he should be lynched just for that. I'm not liking your play here.
#79: Town.
#82: That's not how I'm interpreting the question. I understood the question as asking how you came to the conclusion that drmyshottyizsik is a VI.
#90: Somebody knows my meta, as much as I hate it.
#92: OK, I've decided you're serious in #46. Let's break down why each and every one of your bullet points is scummy:

1. Not a scumtell.
   
2. Not a scumtell.
   
3. Vague.
   
4. No we don't. Additionally, trying to chase drmyshottyizsik off the site is cheap.

#97: What is noodle strategy?
#104: Why?
#124: Thank you for telling Kublai Khan that you are lazy.
Top of page 6: Strong town read on Lady Lambdadelta.
#140: I'm starting to see a redFF-Nero Cain connection here. Both want drmyshottyizsik policy lynched and neither are doing anything to convince anybody that he's actually scum, with Nero Cain trying to shift burden onto NihilisticNinja and redFF trying to stifle discussion.
#145: This isn't the bottom of the dumpster as the first sentence of drmyshottyizsik's post in question is trying to push what is effectively a meaningless statement as the reason he should not be lynched. I'm still not sold, though.
#153: So are you.
#154: For the love of God, if I were able to use a dayvig at this point, redFF would go this instant. Being a VI is not a scumtell and neither is not being liked.
#158: How do you get that redFF is talking about the possibility that Nero Cain is scum?
#166: That's a good idea, too.
#181: WIFOM.
#184: I think pregames like this can be a useful source of information as people have already looked at their alignment before posting.
#188: WIFOM.
#192: One of the ReaperCharlie games, yes? (The exact title's failing me right now.)
#210: Interesting that you open a page 9 Day 1 start with what appears to be an RVS.

Bottom of page 10: It's interesting to me that Nero Cain has drmyshottyizsik and drmyshotgun confused, but due to the similarity of their names I can easily write this off as null.
#270: mastin2 gets a couple townpoints here upon reread of Firestarter's catchup post. I'm still having a lot of trouble wrapping my head around what he thinks, but this one is crystal clear.
#274: Strengthening of NihilisticNinja town read, especially regarding the "red herring".
#293: vijay2vasandani starts off on the wrong foot by not explaining his drmyshotgun vote.
#300:

Drmy needs vigged desperately.

Which one?
#308: I've kind of been wondering what's with Psyche in my readthrough, and this answers my questions.
#313: I disagree that it's ironic. The quote walls are offsetting to me, too.
#318: I dislike Benmage sticking himself over mastin2 on the totem pole here, especially since it's combined with a refusal to read his longer posts.
#332: ...OK, I can buy drmyshotgun-scum here. Unnecessary claim, and not I can easily buy given the site meta.
#354: scooby's reaction is surprising, but I can see it coming from town.
#356:

Drmy is p much confirmed town.

Which one?

#385: Understandable.
#391: Sold on Candy Corn Vampire's scumminess.
#393: You're still not doing much.
#399: Why should she? The shape of the Earth is not relevant to a Large Normal.
#408: Lady Lambdadelta did not give a comprehensive case of the shape of the Earth because it would be a waste of her time. That it is an oblate spheroid and that drmyshottyizsik is a VI are both common knowledge, while arguably true, is not valid justification for thinking LadyLambdadelta scummy for your refusal to explain why shotty is a VI (even though, as phrased, it's not a useful question anyway—it literally asks for what reason shotty is a VI, implying that it is a conscious choice that only drmyshottyizsik is qualified to explain).
Top of page 18: redFF is doing better. I like the push on CCV.
#431: This is a bit mindscrewy to me. You unvoted because you got too much support for the Kublai Khan wagon? Explain how that works to me.
#439: Flippant.
Top of page 19: Lady Lambdadelta vs. mastin2 comes off town vs. town to me.
Mid-top page 20: redFF vs. Firestarter stands out to me. While I think redFF is pretty much redeemed, I'm having a hard time deciding what to make of Firestarter here.
#488: As much as I hate Nero Cain's push on drmyshottyizsik, the latter makes a poor response to the former in this post. I can see how it can be a crossbus.
#497: I can make heads and tails out of the vote reason, though I think questioning a town read on yourself is more anti-town than strictly scummy.
#517: I don't like how the vote on Pine comes off. By itself, it seems like he's drawing a name out of a hat. (Then again, it's getting my bedtime here.)
#525: Why don't you want your posts read?
#532: No you are not.
#537 and #538: Despite my reading this with the knowledge that rack flipped down, I really cannot fault Macros here.
#577: I don't like the response to Macros here. Macros tries to get DeasVail to think on his own and DV responds back by voting him.
#583: Fluff.
#590: How should Benmage know?
#593: Possible, but needs further investigation.
#610: This post makes me want to blow Nero Cain's head off. He has yet to realize that we are not going to cater to his hatred and he's

STILL

doing this crap on page 25.
#611: Amen, sister.
#619: Vague.
#625: Looks like I replaced in on solid ground.
#657: I don't follow. A crummy vote, yes. A joke vote, I fail to see that.
#672: Not a big fan of the disclaimer. I also see a contradiction in the Nero Cain read.
Bottom of page 28/Top of page 29: Poor response by DeasVail to Junpei. You don't care that what you're saying is flawed!?
#720: The post sticks out, but I'm getting a neutral. mastin2 obviously isn't new, but that may be Junpei's point. The main thing I want to probe is why he thinks wiping everybody's slate clean and rereading is scummy.

#732: I'm having trouble understanding the first sentence; could you clarify?
#735: WIFOM.
#758: Fluff at best. I want to say "appeal to fear" as well, but I'm not sure that's the right term. This slips redFF back down a bit.
#760: Something against Nero Cain that isn't remotely about policy lynches for once, but is still about a lynch. My first impression was a feel that NC is being flip-floppy about rack; upon immediate reread, he seems complacent about what he thought would be (and now knows is) a mislynch, calling him useless. This reads like scum trying to stay off a wagon he knows will flip town.
#772: If rack were still alive, I'd be yelling at DeasVail for applying stall tactics here. Since rack has since died, I'm trying to decide if this is the same problem I have with Nero Cain.
#777: I think the "pressure votes are meaningless without intent to lynch" shtick here is well-intended, but it fails to take into account that you can attack two people at one time. We are open-minded.
#782: How the hell do you get this? He thinks your number of scum on the rack wagon is too high. That's different from thinking you think there's scum on the rack wagon at all.
Bottom of page 32/Top of page 33: While I have a town read on Kublai Khan and a scum read on Psyche, their argument here really doesn't tip the balance in either direction. I find Kublai Khan's statement that Psyche quoted the answers to his questions flawed, but otherwise the case is good.
#809 and #810: Something pings here, but I can't quite pin it.
#838: This is a playstyle attack. Walls are pretty typical of Mastin.
#847: Stating that there are most likely two teams of four scum based on site meta and denying that there is one team of eight scum are legitimately two different things. I don't like that you're trying to pit the statements as contradictory.
#857: This is an overreaction to something that is clearly a joke.

And because I'm a sucker for everything being nice and in order:

I'm unable to get anything from page 36 to the flip, so this is for Day 2 up to page 50... with guess what?

#1014: The lurking accusation against LLD rings false. Regarding the comment about Lady Lambdadelta asking people to replace out, two of them make sense to me. She asked Nero Cain to replace out once GreyICE replaced in as he seemed to find GI intolerable, and she tried to get the mod to replace redFF for the homophobic slur, to which she should not have been subjected (and neither should have anybody else). Only mastin2 has been asked to replace out for reasons I cannot comprehend as townie.
#1024: No more reason to vote this slot.
#1027: How do you get this?
#1039: Dear God, I hate meta.
#1053: I fail to see how HezLucky is applying a double standard. Could you show this to me?
#1060: Why does pushing the Lady Lambdadelta case without knowing the nightkills make no sense?
#1081: I'm not liking the doubting Thomas here.
#1124: Good point.
#1129: The explanation of how a mason QT is very difficult to fake is obvtown.
#1132: The town read on mastin2, however, screws up here. Previously, you entertained both two teams of four and a single team of six; you're now saying it's the latter as if you know this.
#1135: A terrible Lady Lambdadelta case.

• What's on the label is not what's in the tin regarding what Lady Lambdadelta thinks about town reads. He bolds her statement that she thinks hydras outing heads is townie, which is entirely different from explaining town reads and therefore is compatible with her refusal for the latter.
  
• I have reservations about Lady Lambdadelta butting up to Antihero and then Antihero dying being inherently scummy. It's possible, but alone it tells me nothing.
  
• #1058 regards an entirely different wagon than Nero Cain discusses, his instead of her own.

#1136: Why are there blank player slots in the first spoiler?
#1157: I'm not that much happier about the numbers slip. The two-team possibility previously considered is not addressed in any way whatsoever.
#1162: Not what I get from Junpei's post.
#1164 and #1170: I could have sworn mastin2 was in Mafia 91, which had two teams of four, under his original account. I'd have to double-check that game, though, and it was a 30-player game instead of a 24-player game anyway.
#1183: Thanks! If anyone wants me to repost my previous catchup posts with the post links inserted, please let me know.
#1196: The last sentence tells me nothing.
#1197: How so?
#1203: I believe the claim.
#1235: I like the strong push on Junpei here.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: Forgot to mark #184.

[drmyshotgun]

^Whoa, this is what I'm talking about

Unvote

[The Mini-Librarian]

@KK: redff said early d2 (his first post of the day I think) that he thought AH was a vig. So why the sudden suspicion on him for his views?

--

@SC: Now that you are (mostly) caught up, do you mind placing a vote?

--

@Our replacements: Thank you. Really. Thank you.

--

@Mastin: How bout that shotty wagon? I'll join you over there. His play today has been lazy and he's been coasting for waaaay too long. (where's that redff case at?)

He's done literally two things all game. 1. OMGUS Nero for calling him a VI and 2. Call redff scum for ~mysterious reasons~

He's not scumhunting at all.

I feel better about this wagon than Pine right now. Might jump back over there if I can't get enough support over here.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[drmyshotgun]

Hmm, get the facts right. There

isn't

a shotty wagon. Not yet.

[The Mini-Librarian]

I know this. Why does this matter?

[drmyshotgun]

You sound like you are a salesman of a popular product. But the thing is that there is a product, but what you really want to do is to make it popular.

[Junpei]

Mastin, stop being such a drama queen; It's suspicious that you are playing a massive noob card while simultaneously backing away from all of your previous reads (and thus, content).

I think that Mastin "wiping the slate clean" is suspicious because it releases him from all previous commitments he has made. We catch scum overtime in isolation; and he is basically cutting everything up to this point off with a few exceptions and wanting to start over.

And yes, StrangerCoug, Mastin not being new is part of my point, though not the main one.

V2V, it meta-self-meta-defense; there's a difference.

Also I think redFF is scum for more than that; his diction and purpose on that page seems not town motivated.

Meta-Self-Meta-defense, as in meta of self meta. That is to say, that using my meta (when I'm referencing it, it is self-meta) as town on me to say I'm town is meaningless because I'm very conscious of my meta, thus it is meta-self-meta. This is different than a meta-defense because a meta-defense claims that one is town because one is acting like one acts when one is town. That is flawed because being conscious of meta makes the tell irrelevant. However a meta-self-meta defense is actually not a defense, rather just pointing out a flaw in someones' logic.

As for 838, I was making two points here: 1) Mastins' mega wall would be anti-town, and 2) I don't think Mastin is scumhunting. I also think that I trust my skill enough to tell when someone is faking their meta or not, but that's unrelated; I just wanted to clear the air on that.

[scooby]

CAN WE LIKE FUCKING LYNCH PINE ONCE AND FOR ALL?

OK

TIA

IM STILL CATCHIUNG UP

[drmyshotgun]

^Catching up for you = another 2-3 days hiatus and comeback with at least one "FUCK". Did your keyboard break down or something? Did you spill your Dr.Pepper on it? Why do you type everything (sorry, EVERYTHING) on CAPSLOCK?

[StrangerCoug]

Pages 51 on:

#1266: I don't follow. "Were not"? Are you sure you're talking about the right game?
#1276: Couldn't tell you, unfortunately. I'm unfamiliar with mastin-scum.
#1279: If mastin2 is "too scummy to be scum" (which is itself flawed), then why are you voting him?
#1292: IIoA stands for Information Instead of Analysis.
#1295: Not a fan of the bragging.
#1320: I don't think so. You need reasons to convince others of scum. Reads, in theory, could be pulled out of a hat (in practice, I can't think of a game where that's been allowed to happen).
#1340: Because I find his posts hard to wade through, too.
#1368: I like Kublai Khan's question, and redFF has slipped back into scum territory.
#1372: Why?
#1376: Wishy-washy.
#1381: As this is where I replace in, everything past this point is about stuff that happened during my readthrough that I have not properly addressed.
#1388: Crummy redFF vote.
Bottom of page 56: Now I'm worried. On the one hand, I still think redFF is scummy, but on the other hand I'm not liking the wagon here. If this is a multiball, as I believe mastin2 has slipped, then I'm almost positive that someone on the other scum team is voting redFF. There's really nothing pointing away from a redFF bus, though.
#1403: Nero Cain's attack on redFF here is actually pretty good. Not his saving grace, unfortunately, but more posts like this are going to make me reconsider my #2 scum read.
#1435: Examples?
#1444: I don't think it's scummy that Kublai Khan is not going to risk lynching a possible vigilante. It's better to rule out the vig possibility first.
#1485: I was going to wait until completely caught up, but as I am now, yes.

VOTE: mastin2. I'm sorry, but the way he'd been going about the number of scum/teams in the game is the straw that broke the camel's back, not to mention that I'm really unable to get anything out of his walls. Absent the slip, this would be a Nero Cain vote for his terrible cases on drmyshottyizsik and Lady Lambdadelta.

I'm not going to cry over a redFF, DeasVail, or Psyche lynch either.

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: redff said early d2 (his first post of the day I think) that he thought AH was a vig. So why the sudden suspicion on him for his views?

I misunderstood it. Re-read the top of Page 42 and you'll see why. Drmyshotgun said that "he wished he was a vig", then redFF asked "im guessing ah was a vig?" to which Nero Cain answered that Antihero was a mason. I read the exchange and assumed the same thing that Nero Cain did (that redFF misunderstood Drmyshotgun). It wasn't until Code_X re-quoted it (much) later that I realized that redFF was making the call then.

@StrangerCoug - Thanks for the comprehensive review. Though what's your read on Pine?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

DRUNK KITTEN IS ALWAYS RIGHT.

VOTE: SHOTTY

[StrangerCoug]

@StrangerCoug - Thanks for the comprehensive review. Though what's your read on Pine?

Pine is null.

[drmyshotgun]

@LLD: Shotty as in "izsik". Right? Not "Gun"

[Nero Cain]

No.

YOU

are not reading. This response makes no sense. You said that if me an red want a PL on shotty we should start explaining why he's scummy. You know darn well that a PL has absolutely nothing to do with scumminess. Then you cry "I NEVER SAID THAT I FELT SHOTTY WAS TOWN!!!" I said absolutely nothing about you finding shotty town. The hell did you get that? On second thought perhaps you got it from the town cred part. Regardless, a PL has nothing to do with him being scummy and it looks like you are defending him.

That I "know darn well that a PL has absolutely nothing to do with scumminess" is exactly why I find

YOU

scummy. Policy lynches rarely work. Even if it nets us a scum lynch, there still must be sound reasoning behind the policy lynch for us to get much information; that drmyshottyizsik is far from the sharpest knife in the drawer does not qualify. redFF has since relented and moved on; you, on the other hand, are still running your hate machine and expect us to fuel it. For me to defend drmyshottyizsik, I have to dispute that he is scummy. I am not doing so; in fact, I have come to my own conclusions as to why he is scummy (ironically, how he is responding to you; since I'm looking at the page your post is on, I can tell everybody that he's not responding admirably to mastin2, either). Try looking deeper than a player attacking a case on another player before assuming that it's a chainsaw defense.

point is, you should know better. A pl is a policly lynch. You sitting there and saying that me and red should provide proof of him being scummy for a PL is absurd. Nor did I ever say anything about you thinkin' shotty was town. Nor am I still trying to for for a pl on shotty as you claim. Why are you putting words into my mouth?

"Even if it nets us a scum lynch, there still must be sound reasoning behind the policy lynch for us to get much information"

A scum lynch is a scum lynch. It moves the town closer to a town wincon. Why would we have to have information before we lynch scum?

Your bus theory is pretty retarded. You believe that me and red decided to pl shotty in the queue thread, before any of us had roles, and then all three of us were given scum pms....the odds of that happening are astronomical.

I have to ask you about your shotty scumread. As far as I can tell 488 is the only time you express that he's scummy. The case (shotty is scummy for weak replys to Nero and Mastin and (I think) they are crossbussin') is a pretty weak case or is there more to it? Would my town flip make you change your read on shotty? Why did he not make your list of scum reads/lynchs in 1453?

As far as I know I never called shotty scummy or put a case on him. Why then are you saying that you are attacking the shotty case? (hint:if there's not one you can't attack it) If anything you are attacking me. Not any case. Please quote were I called shotty scum and put a case on him.

[Junpei]

The Nero v StrangerCoug discussion is a lot of talking without saying much. We should talk about lynching Mastin again.

[StrangerCoug]

point is, you should know better. A pl is a policly lynch. You sitting there and saying that me and red should provide proof of him being scummy for a PL is absurd. Nor did I ever say anything about you thinkin' shotty was town. Nor am I still trying to for for a pl on shotty as you claim. Why are you putting words into my mouth?

You just don't get that I need proof of scumminess to support a lynch

AT ALL

, do you?

"Even if it nets us a scum lynch, there still must be sound reasoning behind the policy lynch for us to get much information"

A scum lynch is a scum lynch. It moves the town closer to a town wincon. Why would we have to have information before we lynch scum?

Because the less information we have to go on, the more harmful it is to town. I can see how we can get information about who was quick to lynch the person without talking about him or her much (opportunistic, scum wanting to get rid of a weaker player to avoid liability), but that's all I can come up with right now.

Your bus theory is pretty retarded. You believe that me and red decided to pl shotty in the queue thread, before any of us had roles, and then all three of us were given scum pms....the odds of that happening are astronomical.

I don't care about what happened in the queue thread. I care about what happened here.

I have to ask you about your shotty scumread. As far as I can tell 488 is the only time you express that he's scummy. The case (shotty is scummy for weak replys to Nero and Mastin and (I think) they are crossbussin') is a pretty weak case or is there more to it? Would my town flip make you change your read on shotty? Why did he not make your list of scum reads/lynchs in 1453?

drmyshottyizsik is a suboptimal lynch right now.

As far as I know I never called shotty scummy or put a case on him. Why then are you saying that you are attacking the shotty case? (hint:if there's not one you can't attack it) If anything you are attacking me. Not any case. Please quote were I called shotty scum and put a case on him.

I'll take the hint as a scum claim from you.

Now defend your crappy-as-all-hell #1135.