Open 382: Friends and Enemies in MSPaint! (Game Over)

[Rhinox]

vote: Slandaar

[Rainbowdash]

Horseapples

I dont want to be the tiebreaker. This seriously may be only the second time ive been in this situation as town in four years here.

I almost think its rhinox more than slandaar at this point, but I really dont want Slandaar to win if he is scum because he just has been so freaking annoying this entire game. Goes back to the arguement of "you have to play to be liked" to an extent (will post that entire speech if yall want), I really am trying to look past the fact that I just dont want to risk losing to Slandaar here.

Give me a week, we are in no rush. You can post but im probably not going to read any of it and just decide stuff on my own. Graduating Saturday, few more junk finals I need to take between now and then, full force starts Monday/Tuesday. Will grind out the game around then.

[Hoopla]

Day 6, Vote Count #2

With four alive, it takes

3

votes to lynch and

2

votes to no lynch. Deadline is scheduled for 09:00 GMT, May 11th <Countdown>.

Rhinox -

1

(Slandaar)

Slandaar -

1

(Rhinox)

Not voting -

2

(Rainbowdash, Alicewondering)

[Rhinox]

My vote was a little rash there but I'm just frustrated with slandaar. He's just picking my words apart, he's not trying to understand my motivation. To me it was pretty clear he's the scum when he abandoned pursuit of rainbow and switched to me, because it seems like rainbow was more likely to vote me than I was to vote rainbow.

His accusation that I coasted on the pizza wagon isn't even fair at all and he just dismisses my explanation. I replaced in, I had 2 days to post before a pre-announced V/LA, and then the quickhammer happened while I was on V/LA. I wasn't even going to replace in because I knew I had a V/LA in 2 days but the mod told me it was ok so I did.I had reasons for my pizza vote, I planned on defending them. I wasn't expecting the lynch to happen so quickly while I was V/LA. Of course I'm not geoing to say anything about pizza leading up to the lynch when I'm not around. Its a BS accusation, and even after I point this out, slandaar just dismisses it and moves onto some other reason why I'm scum. Thats not town trying to figure out if I'm scum, thats scum just trying to get a mislynch in LyLo.

The other accusation against me today - fencesitting - is complete BS. I was very busy last week and didn't have the time to devote to this game to be as thorough as I wanted to at the time. Maybe I should have just went on V/LA. Yes I made posts elsewhere during that time but if you'd actually look at my posts most were in GD which take like no thought. I don't want to cross the line about talking about ongoing games but just go look at the other 2 games I'm in right now - 1 should be immediately obvious why its my highest priority, and the other I've neglected worse than this one.

I don't know if I can keep arguing with slandaar when I get posts like #474 thrown in my face. I just made 2 posts and slandaar just picks out 1 point to make #474 about and ignores everything else. Its like some kind of reverse strawman or something. Slandaar if you want to know what I'm really thinking about the alice kill, you were the one who brought it up today first trying to convince rainbow you wouldn't leave alice alive and then trying to make me speculate why alice was alive. So I think you left alice alive to use it to argue why you're town. Thats my answer. Everything else doesn't matter, I shouldn't have speculated about it like I did but I was goaded into it by you, and now you're saying I'm scummy because I speculated. When something like this happens, either it logical makes sense for 1 player to have done it, or it logically makes sense for the other player to have done it because it was logical for the first to have done it. It's Wifom, and scum don't always make the logical move, or sometimes its logical for scum to be illogical to cause WIFOM.

Slandaar, you're basically arguing that you don't think it makes logical sense for either you or I to have left alice alive, but yet you think I'm scum. So right there you might as well all your logical arguments in the trash because you just proved you don't give a damn about what makes logical sense. You want to say I'm scum because I didn't logically conclude that rainbow was most likely to have killed rainbow - actually that does make the most sense

logically

, but it has been my consistent belief that logic doesn't matter because scum aren't always logical. You have been trying to make everyone believe it was most logical for rainbow to leave alice alive so that in itself makes it logical for you to leave alice alive you can make that argument, period. You want to say whats most logical makes the most sense, you want to argue you're logically conftown because you didn't kill someone you would have thought to be a mason or logically not scum because alice didn't die last night, but I'm logically conftown for the same reason and logically not scum for the same reason. You want to be all LOGIC LOGIC LOGIC when you're calling yourself town but you ignore logic when you vote me. Convenient. You're guilty of exactly the same thing you're saving proves I'm scum, the only difference is you're trying to pretend everything makes logical sense, where I've always believed that logic is wifomable and I'm pretty convinced now thats what you've been doing.

I'm sure I'll get some snarky reply from slandaar just dismissing this whole post but whatever. If you guys are gonna lynch me do it soon, I don't want to still be doing this when team mafia starts. If you guys already don't see things the way I do and have explained it then either I suck at explaining or you never will. I'm pretty much going to have confirmation bias on slandaar for the rest of the game now so rainbow, congrats if your scum. Its nice of you to say you're going to try to look past not wanting to lose to slandaar but I can't. I really did start the day expecting I would be voting slandaar but I thought he was going somewhere with his points against you but now I don't think he really believed them at all because he didn't even give me time to come to grips with the thought that maybe my top town read can be scum before he was accusing me of being scum for fencesitting.

THE END

[Slandaar]

Nice overdone ATE but anyways I have had thoughts...
UNVOTE:

Link me to any games you have in 3man lylo please as any alignment, doesnt matter, im looking for certain traits to exist/not exist.

[Rainbowdash]

This is my first 3P endgame as town. Have won two as scum, but one is lost to site crash from around 5 or 6 left.

First scum game though, even if it is starting to get old.

[Rhinox]

uh hmm haven't had a lot of those lately most have been newbie games

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=17370 - this even though I kinda epic failed at the end
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=16808 - oh look another epic fail - actually this was 5p lylo with 2 scum
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=12803 - this one from 09 but probably the best example?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=11354 - One of the only game I was alive at lylo as scum, but it was as an IC in a newbie

There are probably a few more farther back but they're probably not very representative of my current meta. like these 2, the first 2 games I played on site:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=8794 - the only other time I remember being in LyLo as scum - my first game on site
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=9032

Oh here's another probably like my 3rd game on site:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=9357

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=9630
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=10400 - another epic fail in 5p lylo

I probably should have stopped a few links ago but thanks for this trip down memory lane.

[Slandaar]

I will look into this just not right this second

[Alicewondering]

Slan, why did you vote Rhinox? I'm mostly curious as to why talk about Rainbow scum and then suddenly shift to Rhinox scum? What exactly were your reasons for unvoting?

[Slandaar]

Rainbow thinks hes the deciding vote

But hes not.

Not unless hes scum.

[Hoopla]

The deadline for this day is six days away, so please start posting.

[Rainbowdash]

Vote Rhinox

I just am going to make the call at this point.

Graduate tomorrow, probably will not be full force until Monday/Tuesday.

[Slandaar]

Rhinox I have a quick question, you are completely convinced I am scum, so why did you bother to get links of your meta for me to look through? It doesnt matter who I vote because im scum, right?

I looked through it btw. You are quite passive in lylo as town but the way you rant is different and you seem to be more impartial where here you really havnt looked to engage rainbow

[Slandaar]

Rhinox have you looked at the Rainbow interactions properly with Elmo/Blue and how they interacted with him? what is your opinion on it?

[Slandaar]

I don't know if I can keep arguing with slandaar when I get posts like #474 thrown in my face. I just made 2 posts and slandaar just picks out 1 point to make #474 about and ignores everything else.

if your scum. Its nice of you to say you're going to try to look past not wanting to lose to slandaar but I can't.

OK lets look into this ATE.

1. Why do you think you

have

to argue with me at that point exactly? Make your case on me and be done, you need not argue pointless stuff. The town thing is to stop arguing and make a case oh wait thats what I did?!!!!!
1.1 WAAAAAAAAAAA I MADE 2 POSTS AND SLANDAAR DOESNT CARE - Seriously thats how this reads, truth hurts, but that is exactly how it reads, I hate it immensely, you are trying to suggest you are being treated unfairly by me and are saying im in the wrong for doing so. Nope. I have posted way more than you and cared a lot less about people basically ignoring it.

2. Huge appeal to Rainbow after he suggests he might vote you. Ridiculously so. This line just is impossible to look past because you are echoing what Rainbow said in an attempt to sway him that you voted because of similar reasoning to what he has been thinking.

But then on the otherhand...

Rainbow seems like scum too. No scumhunting, buddied way too hard to the scums. Sigh. I doubt I can look past ATE though. Its just too much.

Rhinox you need to post if you are town. Post content. Its on you to convince you are town. I have shown I am town, look at how Blue snipes at me. Nothing else matters, Blue was sniping me. Therefore I cannot be scum.

[Rainbowdash]

Rainbow seems like scum too. No scumhunting, buddied way too hard to the scums. Sigh. I doubt I can look past ATE though. Its just too much.

Sweet Celestia you are stupid or ignorant if you think I have done no scumhunting. Remember the D1 lynch? Yeah. And I swear if you call that "policy" again you need to rethink terminology because "I dont agree" doesnt make it policy lynching.

Also you dont get to complain about AtE with your whole "why are you not listening about Alice?" rants.

[Rhinox]

sorry lost internet unexpectedly all weekend will answer questions after I get my bearings straight this morning.

[Rhinox]

Rhinox I have a quick question, you are completely convinced I am scum, so why did you bother to get links of your meta for me to look through? It doesnt matter who I vote because im scum, right?

I looked through it btw. You are quite passive in lylo as town but the way you rant is different and you seem to be more impartial where here you really havnt looked to engage rainbow

I'm not actually completely convinced you're scum.

I haven't looked at rainbow that much because I haven't had as much time to devote to this game as I'd like today and then I frustrated with your posting today and let it affect me.

Rhinox have you looked at the Rainbow interactions properly with Elmo/Blue and how they interacted with him? what is your opinion on it?

I'll try to look at it today and give my thoughts. I should have some time for that today.

@489: :shrug: I think your case is my pizza vote and my "fencesitting" today and I think I have shown how both points are bogus. Everything else has stemmed from arguing those points - "pointless arguing" as you call it. so what are you trying to do? Pad your case? argue me into submission? You haven't actually "stopped arguing and made a case" you made a case and then started cherry picking my responses.


I voted you because of the chain of events that started with you going after rainbow and trying to convince me to vote rainbow, then rainbow votes you and you say you're going to self vote. Then after rainbow unvotes all of a sudden you think I'm scum and you even say you figured it out yesterday. To me it read like you were giving up once rainbow voted you because you thought I wasn't going to vote rainbow if I hadn't yet by that point, but then after rainbow unvoted you decided you had a chance to lynch me afterall. Thats my "case".

And everything after that I agree has been kinda pointless arguing but if you're going to bring up crap accusations against me I'm going to argue the points. I just can't help myself, even if I think you're scum, because one of the others might read what you're saying and think it makes sense when it doesn't, like that whole point about my vote on pizza you brought up, which I would think you had a point if I were rainbow or alice until you consider that I had just replaced in and only had 2 days to post before going on a pre-determined V/LA for a long weekend which is when the lynch occured - those points conveniently left out by you.


But you're right I do need to look at rainbow. I'll give it one last shot at being objective and dedicate today to reading rainbow.

unvote

[Alicewondering]

I think I might vote Rainbow today, but I'm not sure about Slan still.

[Rainbowdash]

Ugh really.

What possible motivation for calling out the massclaim when I did do I have as scum when the biggest arguement going on is between town and town? All I would have to do as scum there is either pick a side, or push a third party enough to get the water all muddied up, where worst case a mason claims and the lynch just defaults to town, mason gets cleaned up in NK, and I can hopefully use previous days work to clean up last kill.

Slandaar-Kass if I was scum would have been a freaking gold mine. All it required was just staying out the way, and Slaandar (obv-not mason) was either going to get himself killed or get Kass mislynched or both for an easy win.

Stirring up a massclaim makes everypony reevaluate where they stand focuses attention right on both lurking scum. It would have been really derpy to do. Not to mention leaving confirmed town alive when I was reading myself as least likely of the others to be lynched and the other two dont like eachother much to start. You dont want to leave completely confirmed town alive without at very least being able to entirely discredit them.

[Alicewondering]

Rainbow, then who is scum?

[Slandaar]

You called for massclaim after I voted you Rainbow biggest argument was therefore not town-town assuming you are scum.

[Rhinox]

Rainbow:

RVS: ETA

Rules: are not a town point as discussed.

Voted pizza in 39 but didn't say anything about pizza until 71, and then asks a question in 78. From 86 to 118 just repeats that pizza (and furcow) are the best lynches. Gave a case in 118. Note that I replaced in and voted pizza in 108. In 111, Kami votes ETA with a case. Rainbows next post was 118 and had the case on pizza. VC at the time had 3 votes on ETA, (3 on alice), and my vote was the second on pizza. So rainbows case on pizza shows up just as ETA and pizza were getting more attention, and the timing of the case looks like it could be to make sure more attention goes to pizza than to ETA.

After case post, no mention of pizza at all until lynch.

Only mention of ETA all D1 was the random vote. Wait - says he hasn't played with him before in 41, and askes him an inconsequential question in 180.

No mention of blueberry at all that I could find.

Somewhere in D1 points out tracey obvtownness - I read rainbow as town from that point forward I didn't believe it had any scum benefit to point that out.

D2:

Asks for furcow claim. Doesn't want him run up in case he's a mason, but wants him lynched if he's not. Reasoning in thread seems town motivated. Would scumrainbow have just killed furc if he was scum? Not if he wasn't sure, and D2 it was obvious he wasn't sure. Make furc claim to either confirm he's a good kill, or kill D2 with the policy lynch? Plausible, rainbow was basically killing all discussion until furc claimed and then immediate policy lynch after that. Like in 292/305 it looks like rainbow doesn't even believe furc could be scum. 316 is the post that verifies that.

What about tracey nk? Rainbow claims he knew tracey was VT and that kondi was mason. I think slandaar covered this well and it is what I was thinking but slandaar beat me to it.

D3:

Starts with a slandaar vote with 60% chance he is scum. Reason is he saw slandaar as not mason which automatically put him in the group of 5 not masons in which 3 is scum. Rainbow really has done a lot of mason hunting. But I start getting hung up at the mass claim proposal. At the time I didn't think it was necessary. Scum hadn't hit a mason yet and there was no guarentee scum would hit mason the next night until the mass claim. But then after claims rainbow introduces logic that leads to 2 quick scum lynches of ETA and blue. I went with it because I knew I wasn't scum and I didn't think it was rainbow so ETA+blue + one of slandaar/kass seemed to make sense (I thought it was Kass). I have a hard time theorizing how this can be a scum move unless rainbow was setting himself up to look good today basically.

I'm mean there's 369: ETA: "how do we know you're not scum rainbow huh huh?" Then rainbow asks ETA who's scum and is all like "hey here's what you should be saying here take your bussing like a man" and then ETA basically just accepts his lynch and goes down basically claiming scum. I could definitely see that being bussing-distancing, but it still started from the mass claim and how does that ultimately benefit scum?

Maybe rainbowscum wanted to be 100% sure who the masons were because nking another townie would have been really bad, even if it meant losing some scum partners? Rainbow was saying that it was forcing the scums hand and calling that a beneficial thing but was it really? wouldn't it have been more beneficial had scum not nked a mason? idk..

D4 blueberry quicklynch
D5 Kass quicklynch

D6 votes no lynch then unovte could be manipulation to make us think he's not scum bc why would he vote no lynch right after leaving alice alive. Thats what I was thinking when I asked rainbow why he voted then unvoted since it seemed out of character for him.

And then the rest of D6 happened up til now.

I'm still kinda hung up on the massclaim proposal.

[Slandaar]

Rhinox;
Rainbow knew furc wasnt a mason based on how he knew kondi was a mason. Therefore all that stuff was basically posturing, either as scum or as town to not give it away but it was posturing.

Massclaim benefits scum because they then know who to nk and they are just relying on rainbow to win the game which would have been scums plan all along.

If you do not think Rainbow can set this up go and meta him. Then actually think about what hes actually done in this game, and note how Elmo and Blue were buddying him hard but he never even batted an eyelid.

Voting me over Elmo on day 3 is ludicrous IF it was based on whos not a Mason and he worked out both of us were not, Elmo was clearly the vote BECAUSE of the sheeping and the blatant buddying.

Actually let me go get something

[Slandaar]

My notes then had

Masons - Alice, Kondi, Blueberry
Scum - Slandaar/rhinox/ETA/Haze combo

(hence me going hard for ETA)

This is still from what I can tell a complete lie

He never went hard for Elmo.

The point where after the mason claim I was the driving force getting him lynched over Blue and Kass?

All Three of us came to a conclusion its likely Blue/Elmo/Kass, there is NO credit to be gained by getting the Elmo lynch first out of the three.

Literally none.

Why did Rainbow decide to call for massclaim anyways? he came into day 3 with a plan to vote me clearly because I wasn't a mason, great. Except when I vote him he instantly decides to call for the mass claim.

What was the trigger? he thought maybe im town? no, I dont think so he just didnt want the heat.

VOTE: Rainbow
Hes just voting the most popular town wagon from yesterday still alive with no reasoning.
If he were town he should be able to work out scum are taking the easy life sheeping him
I was going to vote blue today but meh, rainbows basically just lying at this point, hes managed to lead on 3 town, hes actually done 0 scumhunting, he needs rid of.

This reasoning still stands. He did basically just vote me because I was the most popular wagon from the day previous. Not because I was more likely scum than Elmo.

This is the crux I think

If Rainbow knew both I and Elmo are not mason

Why did Rainbow vote me over Elmo day 3?

Even though I still have full athority to stop a lynch in the pool if I feel its needed, todays lynch pool is restricted to [Slandaar/Alice/ETA/Kass]

My notes then had

Masons - Alice, Kondi, Blueberry
Scum - Slandaar/rhinox/ETA/Haze combo (hence me going hard for ETA)

(above quote talking about day 3)

So, Alice is in both mason and lynchpool list. I see.