TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.02

Llamarble (3) - Amrun, singersigner, Cogito Ergo Sum
Cogito Ergo Sum (2) - Bub Bidderskins, Matias
Benmage (1) - Johhog
Captain Haddock (1) - Llamarble
Matias (1) - Captain Haddock
singersigner (1) - Zachrulez
Zachrulez (1) - Benmage

Not Voting (3) - Regfan, SocioPath, Thestatusquo

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 21, 2012, at 12:00 AM EDT (UTC-4).

[Johhog]

And Haddock, just so we have this out of the way I'm a part of the hydra "hiphog". I'll try to not have any prejudices though.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Do you read Benmage as town?

I've got a null read on him at the moment. I'm just curious as to why Llamarble would switch his vote without any explanation or follow-up pressure whatsoever.

[Captain Haddock]

And Haddock, just so we have this out of the way I'm a part of the hydra "hiphog". I'll try to not have any prejudices though.

I know. I don't have any prejudices, it's history.

[Matias]

I've noticed myself and others doing voteplanz more often as scum than as town at the start of a game.
I think scum think more about how they're going to play the early game than town do.

BTW I picked this game because I had a great experience last year and I like the setup.

Oh right, I'm sorry I did something that falls under your own personal scum meta. I'll refer to my fortune teller next time.

I was certain that Llamarble was going to be the first one wagoned in a sequel to the same format game last year in which he was scum. I don't like RVS.

I think Matias tried to encourage suspicion of me without comitting himself and he's asked for opinions without giving any.

I don't find bandwagoning scummy, avoiding bandwagons is something I'd see as more likely to extend RVS.

Then what are your thoughts on Haddock?

I don't agree with you. I don't think Haddock's "vote" was early at all. It was after 3 votes on Llamarble's bandwagon. Do you agree that, if you don't find bandwagoning scummy, that those that avoid bandwagoning are instead the scummy ones? Or do you feel like that isn't necessarily the case?

Unvote

This is what I'm talking about. Not "early at all"! "After 3 votes on Llamarble's bandwagon" , like that was anything other than 3 rvs votes on the same person.

Read my earlier post on my bandwagon analysis.

What analysis? I just ISOed you and I can't see any. Notepad?

VOTE: Matias

...I was actually analyzing Zach, but okay.

[Matias]

There's a reason why I chose Llamarble at the beginning. Scum would likely hop onto a bandwagon being pushed against someone formerly scum in a game like this in an attempt to fit in, assuming Llamarble is town (or possibly even if he's not).

I don't agree with you. I don't think Haddock's "vote" was early at all. It was after 3 votes on Llamarble's bandwagon. Do you agree that, if you don't find bandwagoning scummy, that those that avoid bandwagoning are instead the scummy ones? Or do you feel like that isn't necessarily the case?

Unvote

It depends on the context. If you want me to be honest, I didn't even notice Haddock until you asked me about him.

The question of the day for me is whether you came up with the "he posted too early" reasoning before my question about him or after. If it's the former, you're scum. It seems like convoluted reasoning but I'll make that judgment later on in the game.

I'm leaving this be for right now.

Singer hates being scum, going off of meta knowledge of her.

Vote: CES

. Read my earlier post on my bandwagon analysis.

Haddock, if you had read this, you wouldn't believe what you are saying.

You're suspect. I have a firm belief that CES tried to blend in, however.

What are your thoughts on CES, Haddock?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

FoS: Matias

[Llamarble]

VOTE: Captain Haddock

Nope.

43 started off artificial and followed up with "you are wrong so I get to vote you"

I was voting Benmage because I think he would prefer a theme but would pick WF if it would allow him to be scum.
I still want to hear why he picked this game.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

and followed up with "you are wrong so I get to vote you"

Pretty sure that's an artifact of spatial proximity instead of something Captain Haddock actually did.

P.S. My FoS in #56 is more general than implied.

[singersigner]

Vote: Singersinger

White Flag's a vast departure from the theme you played last year. So why white flag this time?

I was just gunna respond with something along the lines of "cuzlolwifom" but I found a better opportunity to answer less sarcastically.

I

would

like to know what you hoped to gain from this question, and what exactly you expected my answer to be (answer below).

There's a reason why I chose Llamarble at the beginning. Scum would likely hop onto a bandwagon being pushed against someone formerly scum in a game like this in an attempt to fit in, assuming Llamarble is town (or possibly even if he's not).

This is dumb. Not everyone played in the same game or was in TM at all, so they wouldn't have any way of knowing who was what in which game. This is also a faulty theory that can't be proven (like it literally can't be proven until the end of the game, everyone flips, and we go back and analyze the very first wagon on Llamarble) and looks like you completely made it up to gain town points. Not to mention that I would seriously question someone's intelligence if that was their logic for "fitting in."

She didn't hate it enough to avoid playing it in Dram's game last year.

Do you think I'd willingly take a scum role pm?

(I'd classify my own meta the same way. Perhaps to even more of an extreme.)

You basically answered your own question. quadz was almost confirmed town last year because people know I wouldn't allow him to play scum if I could avoid it. Also, dram's theme wasn't nearly as convoluted as Vi's. You should look up my track record with how well I do in her games. >_>

Anywho, different team, different players, different preferences.

Though it's kind of weird that you brought up your own meta of not liking scum. In a weird way it sounds like you're trying to clear yourself, when with a rhetorical question like that, you make it sound like it should be obvious so you'd be "cleared" by someone else anyway, right?

Preview Edit:

I was voting Benmage because I think he would prefer a theme but would pick WF if it would allow him to be scum.

I still want to hear why he picked this game.

What would cause you to think this?
Furthermore, what are you hoping to find from his answer? (obviously if you need him to answer first, that's fine)

[Matias]

This is dumb. Not everyone played in the same game or was in TM at all, so they wouldn't have any way of knowing who was what in which game. This is also a faulty theory that can't be proven (like it literally can't be proven until the end of the game, everyone flips, and we go back and analyze the very first wagon on Llamarble) and looks like you completely made it up to gain town points. Not to mention that I would seriously question someone's intelligence if that was their logic for "fitting in."

I don't really understand any of your logic.

I'm saying that the RVS wagon at the start was most likely going to be on Llamarble, and it was. I voted first to kickstart that.

I'm saying that as scum, wandering away from that wagon might make them suspect, so to feel safe, they would probably want to jump on in order to elicit a "oh, this is what a townie would post" response. What does anything you just said have to do with RVS wagons?

[Matias]

Hell, you could go back at anytime and review the game itself. That scumteam was nominated for a scummy. There's plenty of reason to believe that Llamarble was going to be wagoned.

[Zachrulez]

Singer if I had any expectation of what your answer was going to be, it wouldn't have been worth asking.

[singersigner]

Hell, you could go back at anytime and review the game itself. That scumteam was nominated for a scummy. There's plenty of reason to believe that Llamarble was going to be wagoned.

Are you seriously listening to yourself? A biiiiig pat on the back for Matias who correctly started a wagon on...the person he started a wagon on.

A wagon is a wagon. Pretending that you predicted some almighty scumhunting thingy ZOMGZIKNEWWHOPEOPLEWOULDVOTEFOR. Congrats, you voted for someone first and STARTED THE WAGON YOURSELF. >_>

You seem to have thought this through quite thoroughly. "What would scum do..." OH I KNOW.

unvote
vote: Matias

Preview Edit:
Well that was a cheeky response.

[Amrun]

vote: CES

1. Bandwagon inflation
2. Not doing anything to try and get of RVS

Discuss.

How is 1 not accomplishing 2? This is an illogical argument. Bub's probably town for it, though.

Hell, you could go back at anytime and review the game itself. That scumteam was nominated for a scummy. There's plenty of reason to believe that Llamarble was going to be wagoned.

I really agree with Matias on this one. Anyone that played in last year's White Flag (me, Matias, singer very briefly), have an absolutely bone to pick with Llamarble.

I played in White Flag because I have been trying to erase that game from existence all year and I really need to replace it with better memories. So if we lose, I hate everyone who is town. Basically.

CES is being cagey and it makes me uncomfortable. Not sure why he's so avidly attacking early reads. What is so bad about Llamarble's Haddock read?

I like it, actually.

VOTE: Captain Haddock

p-edit: I wonder if this will be repeat of last year and I'll catch scum for how they attack Matias/DH.

[singersigner]

Hell, you could go back at anytime and review the game itself. That scumteam was nominated for a scummy. There's plenty of reason to believe that Llamarble was going to be wagoned.

I really agree with Matias on this one. Anyone that played in last year's White Flag (me, Matias, singer very briefly), have an absolutely bone to pick with Llamarble.

This doesn't make sense either. This is basically like saying "we were town in that last one and you fucked us over as scum so you better not do it again." Which is something only town would say. Which doesn't follow Matias's logic at all.

HMM.

I played in White Flag because I have been trying to erase that game from existence all year and I really need to replace it with better memories. So if we lose, I hate everyone who is town. Basically.

No one asked you?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

CES is being cagey and it makes me uncomfortable. Not sure why he's so avidly attacking early reads. What is so bad about Llamarble's Haddock read?

Besides being based on silliness in part, he was trying to do this one-liner vote post with "hey, hey, that post is scummy, bam vote" subtext and I just felt it fell flat. That wasn't the kind of post that would induce such an immediate response.

[Zachrulez]

Forgot singer replaced into this last year.

Well then...

Unvote: Vote: Benmage

Singer can graduate to null territory for now.

Hi Amrun!

[Zachrulez]

By this I mean white flag of course.

[Amrun]

Hell, you could go back at anytime and review the game itself. That scumteam was nominated for a scummy. There's plenty of reason to believe that Llamarble was going to be wagoned.

I really agree with Matias on this one. Anyone that played in last year's White Flag (me, Matias, singer very briefly), have an absolutely bone to pick with Llamarble.

This doesn't make sense either. This is basically like saying "we were town in that last one and you fucked us over as scum so you better not do it again." Which is something only town would say. Which doesn't follow Matias's logic at all.

HMM.

I played in White Flag because I have been trying to erase that game from existence all year and I really need to replace it with better memories. So if we lose, I hate everyone who is town. Basically.

No one asked you?

Why should I care if no one asked me? It's information we should be volunteering. And besides - it was meant to help explain why I agreed with Matias.

I don't really understand why you're separating Matias' logic from the logic above; they're slightly different, but come from the same place. Matias assumed that everyone else would feel the latent butthurt from the last game and decided to capitalize on it.

Do you really think scum Matias would go out of his way to explain his plan rather than go with the immediately understandable "Llamarble was scum butthurt RAWR?"

CES is being cagey and it makes me uncomfortable. Not sure why he's so avidly attacking early reads. What is so bad about Llamarble's Haddock read?

Besides being based on silliness in part, he was trying to do this one-liner vote post with "hey, hey, that post is scummy, bam vote" subtext and I just felt it fell flat. That wasn't the kind of post that would induce such an immediate response.

I follow. I think it's more of a staple as LLamarble as a player, rather than Llamarble as scum. (Probably closer to the opposite, actually.)

[Amrun]

Also, hi, Zach!

I was hoping to see Sotty here to make it up to her, but you're a good second best. (Sowwy.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I think it's more of a staple as LLamarble as a player, rather than Llamarble as scum. (Probably closer to the opposite, actually.)

Which is why he would do it badly?

[Amrun]

I think it's more of a staple as LLamarble as a player, rather than Llamarble as scum. (Probably closer to the opposite, actually.)

Which is why he would do it badly?

I understand what you're saying, I just disagree.

[Zachrulez]

Also, hi, Zach!

I was hoping to see Sotty here to make it up to her, but you're a good second best. (Sowwy.)

Hey now, I had to sit and watch that madness.

[singersigner]

Hell, you could go back at anytime and review the game itself. That scumteam was nominated for a scummy. There's plenty of reason to believe that Llamarble was going to be wagoned.

I really agree with Matias on this one. Anyone that played in last year's White Flag (me, Matias, singer very briefly), have an absolutely bone to pick with Llamarble.

This doesn't make sense either. This is basically like saying "we were town in that last one and you fucked us over as scum so you better not do it again." Which is something only town would say. Which doesn't follow Matias's logic at all.

HMM.

I played in White Flag because I have been trying to erase that game from existence all year and I really need to replace it with better memories. So if we lose, I hate everyone who is town. Basically.

No one asked you?

Why should I care if no one asked me? It's information we should be volunteering. And besides - it was meant to help explain why I agreed with Matias.

I don't really understand why you're separating Matias' logic from the logic above; they're slightly different, but come from the same place. Matias assumed that everyone else would feel the latent butthurt from the last game and decided to capitalize on it.

Do you really think scum Matias would go out of his way to explain his plan rather than go with the immediately understandable "Llamarble was scum butthurt RAWR?"

Amrun, how many people are actually playing in the same game again? Three of you? One of whom was the scum that you'd "like to get back at"? You can count me if you'd like, though I don't know why you would.

If you really said it to support your point with Matias, then I can settle with that, but don't spout shit like "this is information we should be volunteering." Nearly (I think) everyone has posted already and you're the only one who's offered up the information "voluntarily" after two people have been questioned by someone else anyway. Do you feel like everyone should've volunteered this information? Do you feel like those who haven't are scummy?

I think scum Matias would capitalize on his "plan" and continue to post how right he was and how "accurate" the outcome was. I think if it really came down to it, and if it was really such a townie thing to do, someone else could've easily pointed out how

townie

it really was.

He's tooting his own horn and it's giving me the heebeejeebees.