TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Amrun]

I feel like everyone should have volunteered this information, yes, but since it was never made a point of, I don't feel like the people who did not are scummy, especially considering they're mostly newbies to team mafia.

Consider this me asking everyone why they chose this game.

So you think scum Matias would purposely draw attention to himself? Why?

And can you show me where you think he's tooting his own horn? I don't see that.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Consider this me asking everyone why they chose this game.

Best set-up with the best player list.

[Bub Bidderskins]

vote: CES

1. Bandwagon inflation
2. Not doing anything to try and get of RVS

Discuss.

How is 1 not accomplishing 2? This is an illogical argument. Bub's probably town for it, though.

It should have read "not doing anything

additional

to try and get of RVS". By hopping on the bandwagon and not trying to do anything else to try and get out of the RVS, CES was taking the path of least resistance.

Matias saying that Llamarble was a likely RVS wagon given last year's performance seems kind of pointless to me. I didn't participate in Team Mafia last year, so I can't speak to its truth, but if its true it doesn't seem like it accomplishes anything to me, but I can't really tell if its coming from scum or not.

Zach also seems town to me. He made relevant questions very early on to me and singer, and since then has been scumhunting.

I feel like everyone should have volunteered this information, yes, but since it was never made a point of, I don't feel like the people who did not are scummy, especially considering they're mostly newbies to team mafia.

Consider this me asking everyone why they chose this game.

So you think scum Matias would purposely draw attention to himself? Why?

And can you show me where you think he's tooting his own horn? I don't see that.

I like very vanilla setups. Themes and roles and crap bust my balls.

[Regfan]

I actually agree with Amrun; I think everyone stating why they took the game will provide at least some beneficial information. I took the white flag slot because my team consider me the stronger scumhunter inside us and because I really prefer games with minimal power roles involved in them.

I have relatively strong town reads on Zach and Singer at the moment and a weaker ones on Bub and Captain. I don't find Matias plan as scummy, I think he'd do it regardless of his alignment. I do find his 'the question of the day is if you made it up or not, if you did you're scum' rant as scummy though, especially with it followed by 'leaving it for now'. Slaxx has told me he can read Matias like a book though so I'll wait for his thoughts.

Johhog

, I remember Isa making a comment somewhere that he wanted to be in white flag and his team mates didn't, so may I ask why you're here?

Llarmable

, I disagree with almost all of your reasoning behind 'townpoints' handed out. Not completely thinking through a post before posting it is more likely to be player-related than alignment related and inclusion of words like 'heck' aren't town-tells in the slightest. I don't remember you ever handing out townpoints for things so meaningless, do you by any chance have a link to a game where you've done-so as town?

Vote: Johhog

[Amrun]

Consider this me asking everyone why they chose this game.

Best set-up with the best player list.

You didn't know the player list when you picked the game, though - so why add that?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Consider this me asking everyone why they chose this game.

Best set-up with the best player list.

You didn't know the player list when you picked the game, though - so why add that?

I may not have known but I still expected it would have the best player list (a quick looksee confirms it does). It certainly did last year.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.03

Benmage (2) - Johhog, Zachrulez
Captain Haddock (2) - Llamarble, Amrun
Cogito Ergo Sum (2) - Bub Bidderskins, Matias
Matias (2) - Captain Haddock, singersigner
Johhog (1) - Regfan
Llamarble (1) - Cogito Ergo Sum
Zachrulez (1) - Benmage

Not Voting (2) - SocioPath, Thestatusquo

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 21, 2012, at 12:00 AM EDT (UTC-4).

[Matias]

Hell, you could go back at anytime and review the game itself. That scumteam was nominated for a scummy. There's plenty of reason to believe that Llamarble was going to be wagoned.

Are you seriously listening to yourself? A biiiiig pat on the back for Matias who correctly started a wagon on...the person he started a wagon on.

A wagon is a wagon. Pretending that you predicted some almighty scumhunting thingy ZOMGZIKNEWWHOPEOPLEWOULDVOTEFOR. Congrats, you voted for someone first and STARTED THE WAGON YOURSELF. >_>

You seem to have thought this through quite thoroughly. "What would scum do..." OH I KNOW.

unvote
vote: Matias

Preview Edit:
Well that was a cheeky response.

Are you people not listening? I said it was an

RVS

wagon.

If you all should know, the game started. I took a look at the player list, saw Llamarble and knew exactly what everyone was going to do. It wasn't some mad scientist scheme.

[Matias]

Singer, you're acting like people who are on RVS wagons want to lynch right off the bat. I'm saying that BECAUSE it's an RVS wagon, it's the "cool town kid" thing to do to vote for the person who won as scum last game, which I'm sure a lot of the people in this game know about, because this playerlist doesn't have a single incompetent person in it. That would attract scum to the late vote on the wagon.

Why the hell are you saying that this is some made up scheme as if the Llamarble wagon was serious? It was a joke wagon, but it had some semantic value.

[Matias]

I actually agree with Amrun; I think everyone stating why they took the game will provide at least some beneficial information. I took the white flag slot because my team consider me the stronger scumhunter inside us and because I really prefer games with minimal power roles involved in them.

I have relatively strong town reads on Zach and Singer at the moment and a weaker ones on Bub and Captain. I don't find Matias plan as scummy, I think he'd do it regardless of his alignment. I do find his 'the question of the day is if you made it up or not, if you did you're scum' rant as scummy though, especially with it followed by 'leaving it for now'. Slaxx has told me he can read Matias like a book though so I'll wait for his thoughts.

Johhog

, I remember Isa making a comment somewhere that he wanted to be in white flag and his team mates didn't, so may I ask why you're here?

Llarmable

, I disagree with almost all of your reasoning behind 'townpoints' handed out. Not completely thinking through a post before posting it is more likely to be player-related than alignment related and inclusion of words like 'heck' aren't town-tells in the slightest. I don't remember you ever handing out townpoints for things so meaningless, do you by any chance have a link to a game where you've done-so as town?

Vote: Johhog

I'd like to know what Slaxx has to say about the playerlist in general, actually. It might give some insight.

I put the Zach question aside because it's not a question that's easily answered on page two of this game. It's worth noting later on.

Actually, does everyone want to relay QT related information about teammates' thoughts? I don't mind discussing what's up in my QT.

Amrun, you had a question about why we joined WF. I really like the setup; it highlights skill over luck. I would have joined Closed Normal had there been no WF.

[SocioPath]

Consider this me asking everyone why they chose this game.

Consider this me answering why I chose this game.


Also, hopefully since singer started in this game as opposed to replacing in, SHE KNOWS THE RULES THIS TIME.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Matias, I've got a question: what was the point of bringing up the "Llamarble will get RVS wagoned" thing?

[Amrun]

Kuribo says, "The votes are all over the place." That's it so far, team-wise.

p-edit: Oh, Socio, I forgot to list you on the list of previous players. XD Nice to play with you again.

[Matias]

Just now, or when I brought it up in the first place?

[Matias]

No quotes. Paraphrase.

One of my teammates sees scum in bub. Another disagrees vehemently, and I'm split down the middle. I can't analyze him on either end of the spectrum.

[Amrun]

By the way. Regfan is town. My team and I agree.

[singersigner]

I read both of these as "look at me and what I did and how awesome I am for doing something I'm convinced is the townie thing to do."

I'm saying that the RVS wagon at the start was most likely going to be on Llamarble, and it was. I voted first to kickstart that.

I was certain that Llamarble was going to be the first one wagoned in a sequel to the same format game last year in which he was scum. I don't like RVS.

Which actually makes me wonder...

Matias, don't you think that voting first actually skews the information you're getting? Like, I don't know about you, but all wagons form from the first vote (crazy, I know). Wouldn't your point have been better made if you waited for someone NOT in the first game to randomly vote for Llamarble and then see if a wagon formed from there? You manipulated your own theory by placing the first vote.

Preview Edit:
And yet another prime example...

But seriously, you're going on about the "RVS wagon" when you made it NOT RVS by having a specific goal in mind when you first voted, so it wasn't really random, was it? MY vote sure as hell wasn't random, but it also had nothing to do with last year's game, which immediately invalidates 1/3 of your theory.

Preview Edit Edit:
Oh hey Socio. Yes, I know what to do this time, and hopefully people won't be retarded about it

if you know what I mean

.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Just now, or when I brought it up in the first place?

Both.

Oh, and in my QT CooLDoG thinks that Zach looks like town. But he also thinks that Zach is she, so take that where you will .

[Regfan]

I think relaying information from the QT is fine in doses. The only real thought on the playerlist that Slaxx/my team-mates stated pre-game was that he thought you'd be more likely to rejoin this setup as scum rather than town considering how last year went down. Also that Zach would take a town slot and we agreed that most of the playerlist would have joined this setup regardless of alignment.

Singer, I really don't think that the RVS 'I had a plan' thing from Matias is alignment related, you're wasting time going over and over it again.

[Matias]

It's an RVS wagon in the sense of the following features:

1. It was made with absolutely no information in mind
2. It was made with no intent to lynch

I voted first to kick off the wagon, yes. If that's your problem, know that it was merely a theory at the time that Llamarble would even HAVE a wagon. I can't predict the future, but my money was on the fact that Llamarble was getting a wagon anyway.

It doesn't skew the information by just placing a first vote or even kicking it off in the first place. It creates the precedence and gave us information. We now know that we had a wagon on a person who was scum last game, and four people joined it. My theory from that is that scum would join in fear of being tagged as scummy and it would give them a better chance to blend in. My first vote has nothing to do with skewing that.

I understand where you got that viewpoint, however. You're just seeing it in a different light.

[Matias]

Just now, or when I brought it up in the first place?

Both.

Oh, and in my QT CooLDoG thinks that Zach looks like town. But he also thinks that Zach is she, so take that where you will .

Because, when I put down my vote, I had high expectations that a wagon like that would give decent information. It did, and I explained why. There isn't much else to it.

[Johhog]

Johhog, I remember Isa making a comment somewhere that he wanted to be in white flag and his team mates didn't, so may I ask why you're here?

That's weird, because when we voted internally White Flag was on the bottom of both his and mine lists. To avoid flipping a coin though I volunteered, I decided that MetaMafia was too hard for me as I'm recently back to this site.

[Matias]

I think relaying information from the QT is fine in doses. The only real thought on the playerlist that Slaxx/my team-mates stated pre-game was that he thought you'd be more likely to rejoin this setup as scum rather than town considering how last year went down. Also that Zach would take a town slot and we agreed that most of the playerlist would have joined this setup regardless of alignment.

I understand. I'm not panning to meta, and I don't need to.

[Amrun]

@RegFan: Can you find that comment from Isa anywhere?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

MetaMafia

Probably telling the truth.