TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.05

Matias (3) - Captain Haddock, singersigner, Benmage
Benmage (2) - Johhog, Zachrulez
Captain Haddock (2) - Llamarble, Amrun
Cogito Ergo Sum (2) - Bub Bidderskins, Matias
Johhog (1) - Regfan
Llamarble (1) - Cogito Ergo Sum

Not Voting (2) - SocioPath, Thestatusquo

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 21, 2012, at 12:00 AM EDT (UTC-4).

[Johhog]

Gut? :/
SocioPaths's only post quoted for convenience:

Consider this me asking everyone why they chose this game.

Consider this me answering why I chose this game.


Also, hopefully since singer started in this game as opposed to replacing in, SHE KNOWS THE RULES THIS TIME.

I can't see how that is indicative of alignment at all.

[Benmage]

Im awesome.

[Regfan]

Slaxx has a strong town read on DH. He's pretty positive that Scum-DH wouldn't post #114 and I agree with him there. I also found DHs comments about his team QT discussion to be a minor town-tell. The only thing we disagree with at the moment is our read on Amrun.

Benmage

- CES didn't say he thought Johhog was town so I don't see how you get any of those 2 reads.

[Matias]

Ben, that post is weird. What kind of question is "Where did I get that opinion from"?

Why would you ever believe scum would push someone because they were scum in the previous game? Like legitimately push? Or RVS?

Did you not listen to the part where I said it was to blend in during RVS, or what

I just don't understand how you come to that belief..... How is voting previous scum blending in... shit I think it would spur more spotlight.

I'm kind of stunned at how hard this is to understand for you. Try just ISOing me and then come back when you do understand. I've repeated myself like 5 times.

My placing is based purely on the "scum would blend in" argument that doesn't actually apply to me, right, DH?

Your vote on Llamarble was terrible in general. Why do you think it wouldn't apply to you?

Johhog: My list is town to scum. General middle area is null.

[singersigner]

@Matias...One of the problems I had (which Benmage noticed) was the comparison to "in a game like this" referencing Team Mafia specifically, when we have no previous meta to pull from. It's a completely fabricated

opinion

with no history to back it up. If zoraster does Team Mafia again NEXT year, however, this might hold some water if you're right.

Or do you mean in any white flag game ever?

Preview Edit:
Ok, so...I can see that, but I completely disagree with the way you went about it. Like, I feel like you really negated the outcome because you started it, but whatever, I see your point, however funny it seems.

Also, what was scummy about CES and not myself or Amrun?

Preview Edit Edit:
Woah seriously, too many lists.

Preview Edit Edit Edit:
SHUTTUP AMRUN I JUST WANT TO POST A THOUGHT AND NOT BE NINJA'D A GAJILLION TIMES.

adskjfgabldsiufghaweliugtfawret

unvote

[singersigner]

For the record, I'm still waiting for Haddock's response to my question on how he feels about CES mainly.

Let me just recap for those of you who don't get it.

So I joined this game. I looked at the thread when it started, because I've been busy with finals. I took a look at the playerlist. I saw Llamarble, but no mith or DGB. So, with that in mind, I figured that a Llamarble wagon would start because "u were totally scumzors during last WF" dumb logic. I thought, "what would scum do in this situation?" and came to the conclusion that they would most likely vote Llamarble as well to fit in. So I voted to influence a wagon on Llamarble to see who would join it.

Amrun, then singer, then CES. Zach, however, posted something that I wanted to know more about, so before I put my vote on CES, I analyzed him early game. Inconclusive, so I placed my vote on CES.

For the record, my reply to Llamarble's "scum meta" comment was sarcasm. I couldn't give a damn about what his scum meta is and my actions falling under that, because it's his scum meta, not my scum meta.

Because it got lost in NINJAS this is the post I was responding to.

[Johhog]

Johhog: My list is town to scum. General middle area is null.

Yeah, sorry, just couldn't resist that terrible, terrible pun.

[Matias]

@Matias...One of the problems I had (which Benmage noticed) was the comparison to "in a game like this" referencing Team Mafia specifically, when we have no previous meta to pull from. It's a completely fabricated opinion with no history to back it up. If zoraster does Team Mafia again NEXT year, however, this might hold some water if you're right.

Or do you mean in any white flag game ever?

Preview Edit:
Ok, so...I can see that, but I completely disagree with the way you went about it. Like, I feel like you really negated the outcome because you started it, but whatever, I see your point, however funny it seems.

Also, what was scummy about CES and not myself or Amrun?

I've played with you enough to know that you avoid scum roles like the plague. I could have been wrong but your play has really suited my guess. Amrun was too early on the wagon.

I still don't think I negated the point, but I'm not going to argue semantics. I'm just happy people get it

[Benmage]

Benmage

- CES didn't say he thought Johhog was town so I don't see how you get any of those 2 reads.

Yeah he did.

[singersigner]

Also, hey Shea, yo, yo Shea, I know you're around, come play with us, aaaaayeup.

[Matias]

Explain your scum reads Mat.

You, because you aren't reading that well. Haddock, because he completely took a selfish "don't target me" route with his logic when the whole discussion was about Zach. CES because of scummy RVS voting.

[Benmage]

Slaxx has a strong town read on DH.

Whose DH?

[Benmage]

Explain your scum reads Mat.

You, because you aren't reading that well. Haddock, because he completely took a selfish "don't target me" route with his logic when the whole discussion was about Zach. CES because of scummy RVS voting.

Shitty X3.

As for me, looks omgusy. Scum or town are more likely to "not read well"?

[singersigner]

Slaxx has a strong town read on DH.

Whose DH?

Matias before he changed his username/profile.

Also,

vooooote: Thestatusquo

[Benmage]

DemonHybrid?

[Matias]

Explain your scum reads Mat.

You, because you aren't reading that well. Haddock, because he completely took a selfish "don't target me" route with his logic when the whole discussion was about Zach. CES because of scummy RVS voting.

Shitty X3.

As for me, looks omgusy. Scum or town are more likely to "not read well"?

Your logic was barely clear, though. I honestly had no clue why you would vote someone if you had so many questions that needed to be answered that could be if you 1. read clearly and 2. asked. Your vote was the 4th on me, too.

Edit: Yes, DemonHybrid. it's in my sig.

[Regfan]

Benmage,

no he didn't. CES's comment was solely that he was probably telling the truth about why he joined this game. Not about if he's scum/town.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Your vote on Llamarble was terrible in general. Why do you think it wouldn't apply to you?

It doesn't apply to me because I always place my vote on the biggest bandwagon at the beginning of a game. Purest meta null tell you're likely to find.

[Matias]

Your vote on Llamarble was terrible in general. Why do you think it wouldn't apply to you?

It doesn't apply to me because I always place my vote on the biggest bandwagon at the beginning of a game. Purest meta null tell you're likely to find.

Is that so.

Can you link examples then?

[Matias]

I'd look myself but I usually don't go much further than the wiki, and you have no games posted. The Llamarble RVS wagon is useless if you have meta of this.

[Benmage]

Benmage,

no he didn't. CES's comment was solely that he was probably telling the truth about why he joined this game. Not about if he's scum/town.

FUCK me, you are correct.

unvote

SHITTTT DH, you almost just got lynched. Speak up Bro. I thought you were gone. Good to see you.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'd look myself but I usually don't go much further than the wiki, and you have no games posted. The Llamarble RVS wagon is useless if you have meta of this.

I had all my games posted but then the rollback took it all anyway.

I'm lazy so I'll just post some IM logs talking about an offsite game:
CogitoErgoMafia (5:25:23): anyway
CogitoErgoMafia (5:25:32): you could've caught me after 2 posts
EvilMina121 (5:25:36): I think you also seemed kind of disconnected from the action during the lynch.
EvilMina121 (5:25:49): Why, out of curiosity?
EvilMina121 (5:25:51): Did you make a meta slip?
CogitoErgoMafia (5:25:58): my first vote wasn't maximally bandwagonny
EvilMina121 (5:26:28): Your Siuan vote was, though...except you changed it right away.
EvilMina121 (5:26:59): I didn't know that particular meta tell of yours. In fact, I always suspect you more when you put a bandwagon vote on someone I trust.
CogitoErgoMafia (5:27:06): I always place my random vote
CogitoErgoMafia (5:27:12): on the leading votegetter

[Bub Bidderskins]

Holy shit, I went through this entire game so far without realizing that Matias was actually Demon Hybrid.

Speaking of which, after Matias explained his logic to me, his early game actions make a lot more sense. Yeah, he was grasping at straws if he hoped to get any scum suspects, but it was the RVS, and those straws were scum. For that I think he's likely town.

Also, Amrun brought up an intersting thing about Haddock:

I think Matias tried to encourage suspicion of me without comitting himself and he's asked for opinions without giving any.

I don't find bandwagoning scummy, avoiding bandwagons is something I'd see as more likely to extend RVS.

Then what are your thoughts on Haddock?

I don't agree with you. I don't think Haddock's "vote" was early at all. It was after 3 votes on Llamarble's bandwagon. Do you agree that, if you don't find bandwagoning scummy, that those that avoid bandwagoning are instead the scummy ones? Or do you feel like that isn't necessarily the case?

Unvote

This is what I'm talking about. Not "early at all"! "After 3 votes on Llamarble's bandwagon" , like that was anything other than 3 rvs votes on the same person.

Read my earlier post on my bandwagon analysis.

What analysis? I just ISOed you and I can't see any. Notepad?

VOTE: Matias

This post is just terrible. The point of Matias' post was not about Captain Haddock, but about discussing Zachrulez' motivation. This shows that Haddock is image conscious and lashing out at perceived threats.

I missed this completely, but now that I look back on it, Haddock's actions seem really scummy. In context, it seems like a very weird thing for him to say, like he perceived even slightest thing to be a threat. I don't like it.

unvote; vote: Captain Haddock

[Matias]

Unvote, Vote: Captain Haddock

. I'll take your word for it.