TM2012 - Closed Normal(Over!)

[Captain Murasa]

CoolDog's big post about me + vote is completely disingenuous and isn't saying anything new.

He's parroting and hoping that nobody notices he's scum with Haylen. Too bad, bro. You're scum.

Just because other pepole might have made the argument before doesn't invalidate the argument.

I like this, it really sounds like it came from town.

[UberNinja]

Whoever still thinks Haylen might be town hasn't read GreyICE's posts.

Hell, they haven't read Haylen's posts either.

[jasonT1981]

Bit of chatter in my team quick topic with DDD, he seems to think GrayICE is playing very similar to what he did as town in TM: PYP. I didn't read this game, but furthers my thought GrayIce is town. GrayICE, do you have a link to that game so I can check it out?

Do you have any arguments as to why grey's posts are scum motivated? Are you only pushing a lynch based off of other people's meta arguments???

ummmm what... where am I saying his posts are scum motivated, hell where am I even hinting at it, and where am I pushing a lynch based off meta... READ THE GAME and you will see I have said I thought GrayICE was town and that the link provided further solidified this read.... Not sure if misrep or lazy reading....

Though I didn't read into it earlier (the whole skimming on my phone at work thing), a quick iso of iamusername reveals that Post 51 looks pretty bad. I never got the impression that UN expected someone to ask "why Grey." The rest of iamusernames's posts are pretty uninspiring.

I

Can you expand on this a bit please, I do agree, his posting seems uninispired.

No cooldog. GreyIce's strategy was great to get the game going. Point is, we have nothing to start off with first: only out of game information. So thats a great way to create in game information (reactions, wagons, etc).

Saying only irrelevant out of game information comes out of initially utilizing out of game information is like saying all information that comes out of RVS is random and unreliable.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. I put little to no stock in meta because in the past it hasn't worked. It is not a scum tell to use meta, but it is simply not the most effective way to scum hunt in my opinion.

while meta is not the all and be all, I do disagree. Meta is very helpful in establishing paterns in how someone plays in various situations (Town/Scum) and see if they are playing to that playstyle again. It is not everything, but can be very helpful.

GreyICE's persistence with his pushing of his meta attack is starting to make me lean towards him being town. Jason is still making posts full of nothing though.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: JasonT

touche

MoI is curious why Jason thinks I'm town after buffy mafia. In buffy mafia I was one of the prime movers on a wagon he believed to be on town, and he pushed me hard as scum. Here he thinks the wagon is on town - but he has a strong town read on me? I find it very odd. Now granted I was scum in Buffy mafia so I can't really complain that he read me incorrectly (he read me very correctly and I night killed him for it) but, well... it does seem odd.

you are right about Buffy Mafia, I just don't get the same feel off you as scum here as I did in it.. The DDD mentioned game helped back up my read you are town.

JasonT is scum.

And what is it exactly made me scum? you do notice that as soon as I said I had a bad gut feeling on you, your thoughts of me as scum began?

CoolDog's big post about me + vote is completely disingenuous and isn't saying anything new.

He's parroting and hoping that nobody notices he's scum with Haylen. Too bad, bro. You're scum.

Just because other pepole might have made the argument before doesn't invalidate the argument.

I like this, it really sounds like it came from town.

what exactly about it sounded like it came from town?

[jasonT1981]

@Jason: It felt forced, like you had to force out your scumreads as if you didn't have any at all.

You asked, I answered... how does that seem forced out of me?

[Glork]

^^^^^^^^^ PROTOWN.

NEVER LYNCH THIS GUY EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER


SUPER GLORKTOWNTELL GO.

[Glork]

@glork, in case I missed it the

fluff post

wall, what do you think of UN now?

Mostly that he's incompetent, and a complete hypocrite. There's a slightly above average chance he's scum, too.

Can you expand on this a bit please, I do agree, his posting seems uninispired.

He claims that UN's vote for someone "because they hadn't posted" was a disingenuous trap where UN "knew" someone would poke him for it, and he could jump on that person.
First of all, people vote people on Page 1/2 "because they haven't posted yet" all the fucking time. It's called a RANDOM (well, ARBITRARY) vote.
Secondly, how could UN possibly "know" that someone would point it out, so that he could mischaracterize it as an inconsistency?
It just relies on an awful lot of wrong/retarded assumptions.


Murasa, you are seriously barking up the wrong tree with this jasonT suspicion voting attacking blargargargrararara thing. PLEASE move your vote onto PereV, DeltaWave, or MoS.

YEAP, AH'M A GOIN' LURKER HUNTIN'.

[Porochaz]

Lets summarize this.

Haylen is trying to convince me that I can't read her.

With her vote on me.

If I'm scum, why does she want to introduce doubt about my read on her? I wouldn't have an honest read on her, I'd have a dishonest read on her based on the fact I was scum.

But here's she's trying to sell me that me and my team can't read her... and pushing for my lynch at the same time.

Come on Haylen, 1v1 time. Got balls?

You narrowing things down like this is making you look really bad.

[Porochaz]

Hmmm.

I'm not ready for a claim yet, given that some people haven't even posted (HI MASTERMIND OF SIN), some people have posted virtually nothing (HI POROCHAZ AND COOLDOG) and some people are being terrible. But, I'm fine with my vote here.

UberNinja is not a real wagon. It's a stupid wagon fueled by pure stupid. So, you'll mind me if I ask what your vote is doing on it.

So, who is a real wagon... noting that I'd be willing to bet at least one of (Porochaz,CooLDoG,MoS) is scum.

Let me tell you once again. Because I am certain I've told you this before. 9 pages in 1 and a half/2 days is fucking fast.

After work, travel and dinner. I have a window of a few hours which I have posted in and not "very little" either. So use that against me if you want, however thats the way its going to be and you know what? This site is for people who have other commitments and can only post a couple of times a day/once a day/slightly less

than that

. So my posting frequency, perfectly fine thanks.

[GreyICE]

Hey Porochaz.

You're a great vig shot.

Discuss.

[Porochaz]

Porochaz: Before I even begin to get into this one, could you please explain your definition of "flailing"?

Neither have you as far as I can see.

Your vote from UN to haylen, back to UN, back to haylen. However I haven't really seen you explain most of these. I am struggling to know where the hell you stand on Haylen and the wagon.

As for me, Haylen didn't do anything scummy from my point of view. The wagon didn't particularly interest me beyond not knowing what the hell you thought, and seem to be floating around between two wagons you don't really care about, which is off especially as you are usually someone who is usually quite clear and GreyICE who has dropped the game has this dumb vendetta against Haylen, which regardless of previous games (HEY OTHERS READING THIS - TERRIBLE WAY TO PLAY!) is not town motivated.

[Porochaz]

GreyICE's persistence with his pushing of his meta attack is starting to make me lean towards him being town.

Jason is still making posts full of nothing though.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: JasonT

Also a lot of this went in and out of my head so I need to reread again. Man, I need to pay more attention

Skimming/reading through ISO's:
CooLDoG is nullish atm.
DeltaWave is lurkerscum.
Glork is obv. town
Grey is null and could go either way right now.
Haylen is still town.
I don't really get why people are calling IAAU town. Nothing interesting seems to be standing out from him. Currently null.
JasonT is scum.
MoS needs to post a lot more. What about Glork's description of Haylen and Grey's play is suspicious to you?
PV has done basically nothing the whole game so far and I can support a wagon on him.
Porochaz is null so far. I don't know what to make of his posts just yet.
After looking again at Slaxx I see he hasn't actually done much at all. Null right now.
UN just sounds like arrogant and cocky town. I don't really agree with his wagon.

Will go into more specifics later.

The underlined bit is where I smell irony.

I want those specifics now.

I also want you to respond to my points in regards to you.

---

Vig shot, hmmm? Maybe its because you can't stand that people can't dedicate as much time to the internet as you. I will do my best to post (and well) when I can. However you are making this remarkably unfun, partly because your lack of playing the game, more over-pushing a lynch with little to know reasoning but mostly because you have unreasonable posting expectations.

[Glork]

Porochaz: Before I even begin to get into this one, could you please explain your definition of "flailing"?

Neither have you as far as I can see.

Your vote from UN to haylen, back to UN, back to haylen. However I haven't really seen you explain most of these. I am struggling to know where the hell you stand on Haylen and the wagon.

As for me, Haylen didn't do anything scummy from my point of view. The wagon didn't particularly interest me beyond not knowing what the hell you thought, and seem to be floating around between two wagons you don't really care about, which is off especially as you are usually someone who is usually quite clear and GreyICE who has dropped the game has this dumb vendetta against Haylen, which regardless of previous games (HEY OTHERS READING THIS - TERRIBLE WAY TO PLAY!) is not town motivated.

Okay, so to be clear, you are not defining "flailing" in the traditional mafia context of thrashing-about-when-under-pressure, and are instead choosing to define it as being of two different minds?

If that's how you want to define flailing, sure. I guess you can say that I was flailing. I think it's more accurate to say that I'm indecisive, as I firmly believe that "flailing" means you have little (if any) self-control over what you put into your posts. Your use of the word "flail" brings a connotation that I don't think applies to what I was saying or doing, because it has a pretty distinct significance within the context of mafia games.

But, to explain:
On one hand, UberNinja's play has been awful. He's demonstrably playing

against

the style and attitude he claimed in an

out-of-game, Mafia Discussion thread

, which absolutely SCREAMS to me "I AM NOT GENIUINE."
On the other hand, Haylen has NOT played in a manner even remotely consistent with how I've seen her has town, and Grey's argument that she took this game over Quilford because of a possible scum-role-PM sounded like it was worth pursuing on Page 2.

So yeah, I hopped over to Haylen (again, ON PAGE TWO) to apply some more pressure to her and evoke a response.

But unlike someone who "flails," there were distinct thought processes behind each and every post (and vote change) I made. I don't feel like I flailed even the slightest bit. I just sent out my little glorkian tendrils in two different directions at once. Sure, maybe I could have kept my vote on UberNinja and thrown an FoS at Haylen or something, but honestly that never really crossed my mind. I saw something that had potential and ran with it, even if it meant stepping away from what *I* was doing for a moment.

[Porochaz]

Okay, so flail was possibly the wrong word. But you seem to understand me now. I felt you were making votes with little reasoning. It did feel slightly like you were trying to find something that stuck. Which is close to my definition of flailing.

That said boiling the words down in your case I'm seeing

Haylencase "meta and vote was an investigatory vote" which for the first Haylen vote is fair enough.
Uberninjacase "meta but uh... from a non game thread"

So yeah, Im not really happy with that response in regards to explanation of cases.

I mean apart from anything else, your basing a vote on UN on self-meta and out of (any) game evidence. Which makes me want to punch you more than anything.

[PeregrineV]

Are you saying "convince him he can't read you"?

Are you saying anything useful in this game?

I haven't said much yet, aside from asking a question and trying to clarify what I've read so far. Stuff that is useful to me.

[jasonT1981]

Are you saying "convince him he can't read you"?

Are you saying anything useful in this game?

I haven't said much yet, aside from asking a question and trying to clarify what I've read so far. Stuff that is useful to me.

Who would you have right now as 1 & 2 scum reads?

out of everything you have read so far, what have you been able to clarify?

[UberNinja]

What's the Super Glork Towntell?

[jasonT1981]

Town - Scum

GreyICE - town Ice. Not the same feel as buffy, Team-mates agree town, and meta backs it up
Glork - Town Glork - seems to have thought out posts and cases
Haylen - town Haylen, had thought so from early stage and now backed up by Zach in team QT.
Porochaz - didnt like Poro start to the game, but has come into it a lot better since

iamausername - Null seems to be flying under the radar
Mastermind of Sin - Null need more content
DeltaWave - Null - seems to be flying under radar needs more
Uberninja - Capt is a scum read, so her buddying up to UN seemed wrong to me

PeregrineV - slight scum, but will list orange/null for now seems reluctant to comment/post.

Slaxx - weak wagon jumping to popular wagons.. seems to just coast along with votes without little care.
CooLDoG - seems to be skimming and not filly reading.. Shows this when attacking me claiming im pushing GrayIce as scum and lynch of meta.

Captain Murasa - started as gut, but progressed rapidly as it went along

.

Right now I really want to see more from PerV, MoS, Deltawave, they seem to be trying to skim under the radar. However are in the middle section of my reads as I feel the bottom 3 are worth looking at more.

vote:Captain Murasa

[jasonT1981]

Sorry, slight mistake.... UberNinja is more a null leaning scum read due to the buddying of Capt who is my main scum suspect.

[GreyICE]

Yay Porochaz is exactly like Llamarble described. I've never wanted a teammate to be wrong so badly in my life.

Scum is busy lurking right now this is a bunch of townies sniping at each other.

[GreyICE]

Oh and Jason?

Tell Zachrulez my opinion of him is about the same of his opinion of me.

He can bite my shiny metal ass

[UberNinja]

.... you talkin bout this?

All this justifying coming from Haylen isn't looking very good for my town read on her. Why are you going to so much effort to justify yourself Haylen?

I thought so too.

Townies say "no that's ridiculous" and disregard it
Scum says "omg omg omg they suspect meeee. here let me drown them in evidence to the contraryyyyy"

Guess which Haylen is doing

Cause if you get scum reads just based on people agreeing with solid points like that...

I've got some sad news for you my friend.

[GreyICE]

uber is so fucking awesome
I would never in a million years lynch him
Ever

[jasonT1981]

.... you talkin bout this?

All this justifying coming from Haylen isn't looking very good for my town read on her. Why are you going to so much effort to justify yourself Haylen?

I thought so too.

Townies say "no that's ridiculous" and disregard it
Scum says "omg omg omg they suspect meeee. here let me drown them in evidence to the contraryyyyy"

Guess which Haylen is doing

Cause if you get scum reads just based on people agreeing with solid points like that...

I've got some sad news for you my friend.

nah, more this...

CoolDog's big post about me + vote is completely disingenuous and isn't saying anything new.

He's parroting and hoping that nobody notices he's scum with Haylen. Too bad, bro. You're scum.

Just because other pepole might have made the argument before doesn't invalidate the argument.

I like this, it really sounds like it came from town.

what exactly about it sounded like it came from town?

Its just how Capt comes across, does not expand why it is town or anything... seems like she is just saying it to say something. Its something that picked my attention up, yes.. I guess I would be questioning it about anyone she said in that situation. However There are many others I would explore as scum before you.

[UberNinja]

I'm still confused as to how that makes me scum.

[UberNinja]

In

any

way.