TM2012 - Closed Normal(Over!)

[Glork]

My last scum game was literally a year and a half ago, but sure: Oldy Mafia. (Sidenote: I would NEVER, EVER, EVER let my first scum game in 18 months be in Team Mafia. Aside from CES, I don't think my team would let that happen either. I should basically be confirmed town for that alone.)

Since I came back to scum, I've been in three completed games, all town.
Scummies WINvitational was lost in the crash, it looks like. Don't see a recovery thread for it.
MLP was also lost in crash, but was recovered here.
Lastly, Blood Bowl Mafia. You can ask GreyICE what he thinks of Blood Bowl Mafia~


Fixed the tag
-Cow

[Glork]

fffffffff url tag fail.
Oldy Mafia


I'm leaving this one in because it's hilarious

[Glork]

FUCK MY LIFE.

[Glork]

I'm going to bed. It's 3:30 am and I am tired.
Oldy Mafia

[Captain Murasa]

Thanks.

[UberNinja]

Glork, I'm really not sure what your goal is here.

Lynching scum, hence the iamausername vote.

Why's he scum? He doesn't seem scummy to me so far.

[Captain Murasa]

I'm leaving this one in because it's hilarious

lololololololol

Anyway, about people saying Glork isn't playing to his town meta. I kinda half-agree. He isn't exactly playing to his town meta, but I don't see him playing to his scum meta either. I think he's playing more to his town meta than scum though.

[CooLDoG]

I was asked for my most recent scum games and I gave them. The last two were about a year ago when I was playing really really badly. I think I've got it back since then.

Do you consider lurking scummy? Or just active lurking?

Yes, if combined with scummy posting. Lurking in and of itself is not necessarily scummy.

So Glork
Team Mafia
The scum team totes loses points if scum gets lynched day 1
Cuts down the odds of bussing severely
Discuss

Well, if we go down that road then the scum could actually bus and we wouldn't catch the scum buds. Play normally, but with help from your team is my suggestion.

I wish MoS could deliver more content in his posts. This one for example could have been used for scum hunting:

CD, I am playing the game.

But, I'm not feeling MoS right now. Need some more time to gauge his posts.

CooLDoG:

Let's not go down the meta happy trail. I have seen a trend in team mafia where people go supper crazy over last years meta (check almost normal, I think). This ends here. Scum can hide behind these bullshit meta arguments and I'm not going to let this game divulge into "I can quote more games than you! HA, you are scum".

-------------------------

Over defensiveness is a scum tell. I don't think it can necessarily be applied here, but if one paragraph can refute an argument just as well as a 5 paragraph wall, use the one paragrapgh. Hold off all of the links if you are pressed. It makes the game easier to read and harder for scum to hide.

I thought this was

kinda

scummy because he's

kinda

parroting what everyone else said but changing the wording

a bit

to make it look like he wasn't.

This is sorta weird because there is no definiteness in this post. There is no solid: THIS IS WHY HE IS SCUM. I was also generalizing about scum tells so it pretty hard for that to qualify as parroting...

tentative fos: CPT. maru

Still think I need a little bit more. And I still like UN as scum.

Glork, I'm really not sure what your goal is here.

Lynching scum, hence the iamausername vote.

Why's he scum? He doesn't seem scummy to me so far.

WHY? you can't jsut simply tell us, "ohh, he is scum. Ohh man guys, dis guy is the towns man.". Give us some reasons! Tell me why he isn't scummy. Tell me how his posts have helped the town.

[Captain Murasa]

CooLDoG:

Let's not go down the meta happy trail. I have seen a trend in team mafia where people go supper crazy over last years meta (check almost normal, I think). This ends here. Scum can hide behind these bullshit meta arguments and I'm not going to let this game divulge into "I can quote more games than you! HA, you are scum".

-------------------------

Over defensiveness is a scum tell. I don't think it can necessarily be applied here, but if one paragraph can refute an argument just as well as a 5 paragraph wall, use the one paragrapgh. Hold off all of the links if you are pressed. It makes the game easier to read and harder for scum to hide.

I thought this was

kinda

scummy because he's

kinda

parroting what everyone else said but changing the wording

a bit

to make it look like he wasn't.

This is sorta weird because there is no definiteness in this post. There is no solid: THIS IS WHY HE IS SCUM. I was also generalizing about scum tells so it pretty hard for that to qualify as parroting...

tentative fos: CPT. maru

Still think I need a little bit more. And I still like UN as scum.

Nice to know I'm being attacked for both not being too definitive

and

being too absolute :P
Kinda scummy just means I thought it was odd, but I'm not ready to call you scum for it exclusively.
You were only kinda parroting everyone. You weren't saying exactly what they said word for word, and you weren't saying anything completely different.

[Captain Murasa]

Plus that post was about me explaining things I found suspicious about you and why you are a null read to me, not why you are scum.

[CooLDoG]

ehh, not sold. I'm not too much a fan of wishy washy, "ehh he might be scum because it was sorta scummy here". Still think UN is better though.

[Captain Murasa]

Again, you were a null read. Null reads are reads you are on the fence about. That's why they're null.

[iamausername]

Haylen was saying that GreyICE was scum, but also trying to convince him that his read was wrong.

Actually, I was trying to convince everyone he was talking bullcrap and thus is town.

So why were you voting him? Why were you saying things like "you're the scummiest person to me right now"? How do you expect anyone to believe this?

Why the fuck are there people who

do

seem to believe this?

Probably not Jason: Seems awfully early to go that strong after scumbuddies.

Without any follow up, I don't see anything particularly 'strong' about this. I wouldn't discount jason that easily.

Post 297 is good shit, why on earth is Murasa the biggest non-Haylen wagon here?

Captain Murasa(3): PeregrineV, Porochaz, jasonT1981

Oh, right.

[GreyICE]

Fuck I'm not lynching the guy who writes #312 today

[Captain Murasa]

@Grey: Quick, who are your current scumreads and why?

[GreyICE]

Haylen, for obv
PV probably, for his refusal to explain his team's reads to me. It looked like what he meant was 'they haven't fabricated them in the QT yet.' Otherwise why say 'they have reads' and not say what those reads are?
Third probably one of CD/MastermindofSin/DeltaWave

Porochaz should be vigged on principle, I doubt he'd do anything different than this if he was scum. He might try to scumhunt more, I guess.

[Captain Murasa]

Third probably one of CD/MastermindofSin/DeltaWave

Why one of these three?

[UberNinja]

Again, you were a null read. Null reads are reads you are on the fence about. That's why they're null.

No a read you are on the fence about is a read you are on the fence about.

A null read is someone you have no read on whatsoever, and this far into the game if they haven't lurked like a mofo, you should have at least *some* form of read on everyone. That is to say, having a "null" on someone after they take part in any sort of meaning discussion is a complete cop out and there's nobody to blame but laziness or scumminess for the lack of an opinion.

Either laziness or scumminess is a lynchable offense.

tl;dr Null reads are bullshit

[DeltaWave]

My last scum game was literally a year and a half ago, but sure: Oldy Mafia. (Sidenote: I would NEVER, EVER, EVER let my first scum game in 18 months be in Team Mafia. Aside from CES, I don't think my team would let that happen either. I should basically be confirmed town for that alone.)

Self-meta to attempt role confirmation is scummy as nuts. FOS ON YOU SIR

Still reading up on the stuff I missed

[Captain Murasa]

Well I guess our terminology is different. I use null to refer to all my reads I'm not sure about. Not the ones I don't have a read on (for those I would just say I don't know).

[UberNinja]

My last scum game was literally a year and a half ago, but sure: Oldy Mafia. (Sidenote: I would NEVER, EVER, EVER let my first scum game in 18 months be in Team Mafia. Aside from CES, I don't think my team would let that happen either. I should basically be confirmed town for that alone.)

Self-meta to attempt role confirmation is scummy as nuts. FOS ON YOU SIR

Still reading up on the stuff I missed

agreed. the WIFOM in this post is so thick you could cut it with a knife

[GreyICE]

Third probably one of CD/MastermindofSin/DeltaWave

Why one of these three?

CooLDoG is usually obvtown when he's town, and I'm not getting strong town vibes off him. The wall posts are a tad, well... terrible. 170 and 253 in particular take up many inches and provide little substance.

MoS should be obvious, the man hasn't said one useful thing about the game. Or voted. At this point, based on his posts, he could vote for absolutely anyone in the entire game if a wagon got started.

DeltaWave has three shitty posts.

PEdit: four shitty posts

[DeltaWave]

DeltaWave has three shitty posts.

PEdit: four shitty posts

You don't think self-meta is shifty?

[GreyICE]

agreed. the WIFOM in this post is so thick you could cut it with a knife

You know, WIFOM is an interesting term. Some take it to mean the problem is unsolvable. But it simply means the problem has layers. Glork is famous as a strong town player and a mediocre scum player who is utterly suspicious in LyLo (since he's still alive). He also hasn't played scum in 18 months.

On the other hand, chamber is one of the worst scum players I've ever encountered. Read this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=21399

In a not-strong player list (it included PizzaDudes and Lowell) he got lynched day 1. Without getting to out a power role with a claim even. That's... err... amazing.
So that leaves CTD and CES as other people who could field a scum role for his team. And... honestly I'd probably rather give it to them.
But they'd more naturally draw fire than Glork, who people might assume would take the town role. And they could have 2 scum roles.
Of course they could have 4 town roles.

See, it's WIFOM, but it's interesting wWIFOM, because there is an endpoint to this. You can solve WIFOM problems, you just have to think to exactly one point past where they stopped thinking.

[GreyICE]

DeltaWave has three shitty posts.

PEdit: four shitty posts

You don't think self-meta is shifty?

Not anymore.
Used to be, but now it depends much more on the context. People are expecting meta to be handed out much more freely, and scum are much more wary of trying to clear themselves through self-meta.

I'd be pretty pissed if it was the only defense, but given Glork has zero votes on him, I don't even see it as a defense. More a data point.