TM2012: Scummies 2011.5 - Let the credits roll!

[hitogoroshi]

I generally dislike the way you play mafia.

"Reck, ignore your own thoughts about MoI and listen to my reasonless assumptions. And let me defend Zar's scummy play with LOLMETA. Ignore your own thoughts about the game and instead focus on the person I've been tunneling on the entire game & refusing to give anyone else a second glance. Oh and your vote is bad because catching scum (Gaoth) in one post is ludicrous even though that's pretty much what I did at the start of the game with Ajax."

Don't go full retard on me, please.

Dude, like it or not, he has a completely valid point and you shouldn't be so dismissive about it. I think you're town, I think he's town, but when someone is asked for their reads and gives them, you shouldn't say "shut up about your reads, what do you think about ~*my reads*~?". You literally said:

Instead of feeling around for scum based on these vague impressions of their posts, look at #126 (second post of this page) and then review the case against Ajax and how he's responded.

Which really is saying "Your reads are stupid you should look at my reads." If you don't like his views, talk about it, if you think he's scum, talk about it, but please don't dismissively brush it away as "don't go full retard on me." because that is quite frankly

incredibly

condescending. I don't want to start a fight about this, because this isn't about alignment and probably you're both town, but I'm not gonna be quiet about a statement like that. I mean, I also disagree with Reck insofar as I think MoI is town, but I'm still glad he's giving his own reads and adding his own content to the game, because that's how I read his alignment and to the extent I trust him, it's how he helps inform my own reads. See where I'm coming from?

[xRECKONERx]

I want to read xRECKONERx's reply first. Maybe there's more to it, maybe there isn't.

reply to...?

[BBmolla]

xRECKONERx - Aw man, he scum slipped in Post 96.

I'm assuming this.

But I may have misread.

[xRECKONERx]

Oh uh ok no I didn't

[Lost Butterfly]

Day 1, Votecount 7

Captain Ajax (5) - MagnaofIllusion, hitogoroshi, Quilford, DeasVail, BBMolla

theamatuer (2) - Kublai Khan, The Fonz
Gaoth (3) - Zar, T-Bone, xRECKONERx
hitogoroshi (1) - Captain Ajax
BBmolla (1) - theamatuer

Not voting

(1) : Gaoth

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or no-lynch.

Deadline:

21st of May at 11:50pm (EDT)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-05-21 23:50:00)

Countdown to the end of First Half Judging

: (expired on 2012-05-13 23:50:00)

[Captain Ajax]

Do you agree with the Gaoth votes, then?

Yep.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gaoth

If one of DV/Quil is scum, I'd have to say it's DV atm.

Just for clarification: is this because of anything scummy about DV, or is it just because you think Quilford is townish?

Either you missed my question, or I missed your answer. Regardless, I'm still curious as to what you were thinking at this point.

Vote: BBmolla

He makes shit excuses as scum. He has shit excuses here. Also, post 97 is horrible

I'm with BBmolla on this one; you need to get back here and explain what was wrong with BBmolla's post. Theamatuer, this vote of yours makes less sense than anything else you've posted.

[BBmolla]

Latter. And a lack of townishness from DV.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be LA from 4:30pm EDT today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties. And specifically this weekend with a charity golf Scramble on Saturday to help with and Mother’s Day on Sunday my posting is likely to be restricted to late nights if at all.

UNVOTE:

@KK and Hito

– have your groups finished judging yet? I don’t see evidence they have and want to be sure I haven't missed it.

@EVERYONE

– Although I think Ajax is scum I’d like confirmation from the Judging groups that everything is complete before we go ahead and lynch him. So please no more votes on him (L-2 is even a bit much thus my unvote) so as to not faciliate an 'oops hammer' screwing up the judging.

Lastly

– anyone who thinks Ajax is Town / doesn’t agree with Quilford’s Post 126 needs to explain who that isn’t clearly indicative of scum Ajax making up responses.

--

@Hito

– regarding your post re: Insults. This is a Team game. I have more than my interests on the line. Before we even had roles the four members of our team got together and discussed Rage issues. Grey and I have had success very recently NOT raging at all and getting good results (the Tiger eaten MST3K Mafia for example had us sweep scum with only 1 Town casualty over 3 game days). I’m personally working towards a more calm meta as I recognize that the current site meta has moved my general game in a direction I’m not generally happy with. This is all I will say on the matter.

If Ajax flips scum, we lynch Gaoth tomorrow, no questions no compromise.

While I like where your head is out here I would honestly like to discuss the play strongly defending him as an alternate candidate (Fonz). I know you read him Town currently but his current play is pining my gut as similar to Seinfeld Mafia scum-Fonz. I’ll be re-reading that game to aquaint myself with why this weekend most likely.

That said if I was a Cop I’d be scanning either KK or Fonz tonight if Ajax flips scum.

--

Molla's vote hop into Gaoth, OTOH, was a bit quick to and comes right after being questioned about keeping his vote on quilford.

Remind me again … aren’t you voting Gaoth at this point? Because I don’t find it very a Town oriented thought process to be analyzing the votes on a wagon you are still on from the standpoint that the wagon would be unsuccessful before a flip even happens.

Especially when your justification for said vote is effectively “tone”.

--

And I've played games where I've seen you go a couple of days either not posting or skim-posting before jumping back in with a massive catch-up post. So I'm not understanding your attack.

Yes but you have done nothing in the way of scum-hunting at the point I made that post, at least to myself, Grey and Llama. I’ve already pointed out why I think that was the case in my last post (directed to Fonz who said you were scum-hunting but you certainly can respond if you wish).

Your reaction was not one that makes sense from a Town perspective IMO.

Actually, you don't have any experience with hydra-KK. I've only been in a hydra once and I don't remember any of your group being in that Mini.

My thoughts were mistaken – I recalled you in Blackest Night Mafia but thought you were part of the Stove hydra … as it turns out you played solo as Town there. My point remains – Town KK there seemed much more balanced and un-ragey.

There, easily faked. Even if I didn't fake it, does it actually hold any merit? If I were to die after posting that, should other people think that you are 4 times more likely to be scum?

Look, I understand where you're coming from. The reads of partners should be considered when you are weighing reads and considering your next post. But I'm saying that they aren't substitute for cases. You posted gut reads from your teammates that say I'm "scum" and "terrible". How the hell did you want me to respond to that?

Where did I ever suggest you were ‘4 times as likely’ to be scum? That reeks of a straw-man right there. I suggested that 3 members of our time directly found your play scummy. Players may take that for what it is worth but if I ever flipped Town they know that it is three players scum-hunting from an honest Town position that got said read of KK as scum. So your “IT SUCKS TO POST THAT RRAARSW” post strikes me as someone who does not want to have to deal with that possibility.

Ah okay. That makes more sense. The thought of a even-numbered group seems a little off. Okay. Let's wait for MagnaofIllusion.

I think it best to only confirm the exact number of players in my judging group tomorrow.

Lastly – you need to explain your ‘Quilford is scum’ read from Post 153 and what scum-slip you are calling out for Reck.

@BBmolla - re-write your post succinctly and with a point. Because it's just abstract goop at the moment.

See this furthers my ‘KK is scum’ feelings. That post, while large and filled with quote stripes, is far from unclear. Suggesting it can’t be parsed is terrible.

--

MoI I think your Fonz meta seems to be stretching a bit. Link maybe?

It’s gut at this stage for me mostly combined with his strong defense of Ajax. I’ll be re-reading my Scum-Fonz game I played with him and try to get you some direct links to why I feel that way after the weekend if we haven’t lynched Ajax by then.

MoI are you actually getting anything out of your argument with Fonz other than proving you're right?

It’s helping me sharpen my read on him. I’ll know more when he responds regarding why Ajax is Town and why KK was scum-hunting from my last post.

[BBmolla]

MoI you can answer a bit of those yourself if you read the last page, I asked KK about both those reads.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI you can answer a bit of those yourself if you read the last page, I asked KK about both those reads.

BB I had read the last page. I asked KK for a reason.

Why you gotta bust my groove?

[BBmolla]

Sorry bruh

[Quilford]

sorry. i didn't mean to be condescending and i was pretty distraught at the time.

[Quilford]

in any case thanks to the site outage i'll be a bit longer before a post comes along.

sorry again, reck.

[theamatuer]

BBmolla: What is your read on Quil? (excluding influence from Reck) Also, explain the "wat".

It was null enough to explore a wagon.

Do you agree with the Gaoth votes, then?

Yep.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gaoth

If one of DV/Quil is scum, I'd have to say it's DV atm.

I find that the Quilford null thing is also suspicious, and how you say Quil is town after the wagon on him failed.
Also shamelessly bandwagoning on Gaoth.
Not to mention my teammates also think you are scummy

[Zar]

BBmolla: What is your read on Quil? (excluding influence from Reck) Also, explain the "wat".

It was null enough to explore a wagon.

Do you agree with the Gaoth votes, then?

Yep.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gaoth

If one of DV/Quil is scum, I'd have to say it's DV atm.

You keep calling DV scummy but don't vote him. Ever. Why?

Molla's vote hop into Gaoth, OTOH, was a bit quick to and comes right after being questioned about keeping his vote on quilford.

DOes this accuaLly meAN anything. Like, are you calling me scummy? And if so, why are you calling the guy I hop onto scum in the rest of the post?

Yes. Scummy as hell. Your reaction was odd and came at a bad time. Your quilford vote was a blatant sheep to Reck's. Did not show any interest in engaging in discussion or seeking suspects. Upon being prodded about it, the vote was promptly moved.

And, this is golden:

This Gaoth lurker-wagon is far too easy.

I hate "too easy" so much. All scum has to do is all bus one team mate and bam, a wagon seems too easy. It's garbage and means nothing.

So, BBMolla admits partners may bus each other all the time. Yet in the same post:

I think a scum's buddying a town for towncred from the town and a possible mislynch if the scum flips.

Why the fuck
Would you even think this
In less than seven pages
I don't even

Does not look like a reaction coming from town.

1) Fails to provide a valid the reason for his Gaoth vote.
2) Dismisses the point brought up by highlighting as absurd. Seems nervous
3) WIFOM defense.

BBMOLLA YOU SCUM DIE. WITH FIRE. AND BLOOD.

UNVOTE

VOTE BBMOLLA

[BBmolla]

I find that the Quilford null thing is also suspicious, and how you say Quil is town after the wagon on him failed.
Also shamelessly bandwagoning on Gaoth.
Not to mention my teammates also think you are scummy

Cool
Care to comment on my recent posts?

You keep calling DV scummy but don't vote him. Ever. Why?

Read the last page bro. It's Quil being town, not DV being scummy. I never said DV was scummy, there's just a lack of towntells.

Yes. Scummy as hell. Your reaction was odd and came at a bad time. Your quilford vote was a blatant sheep to Reck's. Did not show any interest in engaging in discussion or seeking suspects. Upon being prodded about it, the vote was promptly moved.

Yes I was sheeping Reck to explore a null read, we've been over this already. And no, I didn't have time to fully invest into the game at that point.

So, BBMolla admits partners may bus each other all the time. Yet in the same post:

Does not look like a reaction coming from town.

Buddy, those are two different ball games. It's like you saying it's raining because I burned my toast. Yes, partners bus, that's not the reason that I thought your theory was dumb.

It's like me saying "Guise what if Zar is an alium and hes third party and his goal is to make really stupid arguments and there is no town and accually everyone is aliums?"
It's dumb to think that is possible at that point in the game.

1) Fails to provide a valid the reason for his Gaoth vote.
2) Dismisses the point brought up by highlighting as absurd. Seems nervous
3) WIFOM defense.

I'm scum for voting the person you thought was scummy? Do you not see a problem here?
I don't know what point it is, but it probably

is

absurd, as your whole case is.
Where?

I think my favorite part is how you ignored the rest of the game and still came to the conclusion that I'm scum.

[BBmolla]

I'm honestly hoping this is some terrible reaction test Zar.

[BBmolla]

Theam do you really have zero else to comment on in regards to what has happened in the last few pages?

[DeasVail]

Will read more of this later, but...

Theam:

I've played with the RL friend who introduced me to mafia three times on MS. Each time we were both town. Once, I irrationally suspected her the whole game. Another time, I gut read her as town but lynched her anyway, and the last time, I didn't suspect her at all (she made a very townie claim day 2), but she actually suspected me a fair bit.

[Captain Ajax]

There seems to be an "uncanny valley" when it comes to amount of content posted.

At an average level, it's a null tell. At Gaoth's level (nonexistent), it's a null tell.

At theamatuer's level (minimal), it's suspicious. Looks like he's avoiding getting too deep into the game.

Unvote

Vote: theamatuer

theamatuer, what's your read right now on Zar? What about hito?

[DeasVail]

BBmolla:

When you replied to KK's reason for thinking me town, were you aware that we had opposite reads on Quil? If not, would it have changed your opinion?

Hito:

Why would MoI-scum have had to make up his team's reads? Also, have you been called out on weird posting times before?

Kublai Khan:

Did you actually believe Reck scumslipped? Also, what did you gain from me saying I liked scum better as opposed to town?

MoI:

What reason was there for you to focus on your team's reads and separate them from your own, apart from showing off how town you are?

The Fonz:

Can you explain your strong views regarding the Ajax wagon?

theametuer:

What reason was there for you to mention your teammates finding molla scummy in 188?

Town

BBmolla-

I have reservations, but there are aspects of his posting which make me think he's fairly likely town.

hitogoroshi

Kublai Khan-

The thing about not knowing everyone was judging probably means he's town. I think it could be faked though.

MoI

Quilford

T-bone

Null/Undecided

The Fonz-

Townread retracted because of his unbelievably strong views regarding the Ajax wagon and his unimpressive vote on Theam, as pointed out by others.

theameteur

xRECKONERx-

Honestly, all the "Reck is so town" stuff going on seems more like wishful thinking to me than anything else. Hito's reasoning is decent, but I personally don't buy them because Reck-scum is probably going to want to establish himself as town early on, so posting when he can while on V/LA is a lot better than not posting. Also, considering that the vote on Quil wasn't great to begin with and he didn't look like a good mislynch target, I am not a fan of that reason either. I don't know if he's that scummy though.

Zar-

I'll sort him out later.

Scum

Captain Ajax-

One of my teammates has expressed doubts, but I still think he's scummy. I like what people have said about him, there's nothing about him that makes me think town, and I can easily see him as cautious scum.

Gaoth-

I'll definitely look at him more closely if Ajax is scum. Even, if not, I think that post is pretty scummy. I don't think town are that likely to care about where the votes are from at such an early stage. Actually I'll move him from null to scum.

[BBmolla]

BBmolla: When you replied to KK's reason for thinking me town, were you aware that we had opposite reads on Quil? If not, would it have changed your opinion?

No, and idk.

[hitogoroshi]

@KK and Hito

– have your groups finished judging yet? I don’t see evidence they have and want to be sure I haven't missed it.

We're not 100% done, but the big decisions have been made and it's just a matter of dotting the i's and crossing the t's I think. I'll keep you posted.

(As an aside...I've never quite understood that saying. Undotted i's and uncrossed t's are like,

completely

different levels of offense. An undotted i is still clearly an i - when I write in real life I have undotted i's all the time, because who cares? It's still pretty obvious what's going on there. But an undotted t is basically an l. Who does the up and down part and thinks 'Alright, done writing that t'? Dotting the i's and crossing the t's is like saying "It's a matter of tucking in your napkin and cooking dinner"...)

@Hito

– regarding your post re: Insults. This is a Team game. I have more than my interests on the line. Before we even had roles the four members of our team got together and discussed Rage issues. Grey and I have had success very recently NOT raging at all and getting good results (the Tiger eaten MST3K Mafia for example had us sweep scum with only 1 Town casualty over 3 game days). I’m personally working towards a more calm meta as I recognize that the current site meta has moved my general game in a direction I’m not generally happy with. This is all I will say on the matter.

For the record, I do recognize and appreciate it.

If Ajax flips scum, we lynch Gaoth tomorrow, no questions no compromise.

While I like where your head is out here I would honestly like to discuss the play strongly defending him as an alternate candidate (Fonz). I know you read him Town currently but his current play is pining my gut as similar to Seinfeld Mafia scum-Fonz. I’ll be re-reading that game to aquaint myself with why this weekend most likely.

That said if I was a Cop I’d be scanning either KK or Fonz tonight if Ajax flips scum.

I do want to add, in case I die tonight, that there are the elements I pointed out that make me think there's a scum-connection between Ajax and Gaoth, and then there are elements I'm keeping under my candle-lit hat that make me think there's a scum-connection between them. I won't say it's 100% cast iron, exactly, but it's something I'm confident enough in that I want to keep it a secret. Please take it very seriously if I die. (If I live, I can of course weigh it against KK/Fonz/etc. myself tomorrow on an Ajax scumflip)

Where did I ever suggest you were ‘4 times as likely’ to be scum? That reeks of a straw-man right there. I suggested that 3 members of our time directly found your play scummy. Players may take that for what it is worth but if I ever flipped Town they know that it is three players scum-hunting from an honest Town position that got said read of KK as scum. So your “IT SUCKS TO POST THAT RRAARSW” post strikes me as someone who does not want to have to deal with that possibility.

This is a good point and everyone should read it.

BBmolla: What is your read on Quil? (excluding influence from Reck) Also, explain the "wat".

It was null enough to explore a wagon.

Do you agree with the Gaoth votes, then?

Yep.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gaoth

If one of DV/Quil is scum, I'd have to say it's DV atm.

You keep calling DV scummy but don't vote him. Ever. Why?

"Keep calling" DV scummy. What? He once said that DV was scummier than Quilford, in the quote you posted (post ninety-fuckin'-seven). Then, he asked KK why he has a town read on DV, because he didn't personally have one. Not at all the same as continually calling DV scummy. And BBM's 155 was specifically responding to theam defending his 1v1 on DV/Quil, not saying in general it's absurd scum would bus a buddy.

Zar:

Are those the reasons the sum of what you find scummy about BBM, or is there something more you've seen? Also, who's your second-strongest scumread?

Hito:

Why would MoI-scum have had to make up his team's reads? Also, have you been called out on weird posting times before?

The point I was hinting at to KK is that if MoI is scum, I still want MoI's teams "reads" for the same reason I'd want his own "reads" if he was scum - because if he's scum, his teammates KNOW that, and their psuedoreads reflect that. This is why I was against his point of "What's the point of non-confirmed town giving team reads" - because the reads are useful during the game and after he dies, regardless of alignment. Perhaps his teammates would all make up fake reads for him, perhaps he'd do it all himself. The point is, it wouldn't be

easy

, and I'm still happy to see his 'this is what everyone thinks' post even though he's not confirmed town.

Not sure if I've been called out for weird times off the top of my head. I do get called out sometimes for browsing without posting, because I'm not hidden. (My last town game, Ponybash Invitational, had this.) Mostly I was just being conservative because I really, really don't want this game derailed on trivial bullshit. We've been doing a good job on that front so far and it's making this game super relaxing to be in.

[DeasVail]

scum-connection between Ajax and Gaoth

I doubt that I see what you see, but I completely agree with this.

[Lost Butterfly]

Bumpan for VC.