Worst Role Mafia - GAME OVER!

[BBmolla]

Bad logic =/= scum

Thor doesn't realize this and he keeps lynching me for it.

[Amrun]

I know it doesn't, but purposefully pushing bad logic and pretending to believe it is good logic DOES = scum.

[inte]

I don't get it... you obviously thought it was smart to use it once, and it brought in town. So what's changed?

I went through you in ISO and a see a point where you claim it's reasonable to assume that if you bring in a second player, they'd be scum. Why is this?

Even if it's a coin-toss each time, that should argue for you not having used it in the first place, because a 50/50 shot at town is horrible odds for the town. Of course, it could be something like 85/15 town/mafia or whatever, but regardless, why are you not willing to do what you've already done?

Of course, scum-BB wouldn't want to bring in more town, but you've made a reasonably cogent case that you wouldn't have targeted Tierce originally if you were scum. So, what am I missing?

Balance.

Okay, imagine you were creating this game. Now, best case scenario is you make it so both recruits are town. What would be plausible worst case scenario?

In my opinion, it'd be one scum recruit. Two scum recruits would be gamebreaking. In addition, it'd now quite literally have to be the second if one were scum, as the first was town.

That and it's not really worth doing, unless you have some stellar scumhunter. I brought Tierce in to have someone to talk to about this game, as talking to some players in this game(Pokerface comes to mind...) would just be a waste of my time. I trust her scumdar for the most part, and I felt I'd be able to read her if she were scum(Maybe not, but I think so, and I also had doubts about first being scum.)

Is there really any reason to recruit another person?

My theory is that if I recruited again it'd end up being a traitor neighbor, that'd probably be the most balanced scenario.

right this would be plausible unless you are scum, and your first recruit is town

[Amrun]

If his first recruit is town and his second is scum, then what BBmolla has done makes no sense from a scum perspective.

[inte]

true

[Amrun]

The issue is that I wifom myself: is that why he is pushing the inane theory of first-town, second-scum, which makes NO SENSE? if it were true, it would be good news for bbmolla-scum, but there's absolutely no reason it should be true. That's why it's suspicious to me.

[saulres]

1062 is a good post on Haddock.

???

[Amrun]

1062 is a good post on Haddock.

???

Oops. Misread an 8 as a 0. I meant 1862.

[saulres]

Oh.

I won't read that. Anyone care to summarize?

[mafia-n00b]

@saulres:

According to RedPanda:

Haddock is calling RP scummy for pushing for role info on dana, but RP has scumread on dana, so asking for role info isn't problematic because he's trying to trip-up scum.
Since Haddock ALSO has scumread on dana (is voting for him and wants him lynched), having a problem with pushing him for role info makes no sense.
If Haddock had townread on dana, his position would make sense, but he doesn't so it doesn't.

That's just my take on it.

[Amrun]

I concur.

[mafia-n00b]

UNVOTE:

I need to think where I want to put my vote for now...

[mcqueen]

I HAEV NO CLUA WUT GONG ON1!111! OMG WTF LOL

[danakillsu]

Well. If theam is scum, I'm pretty sure BBMolla is too. Not that I think either of them is scum.

Just realized this could be incredibly confusing to anyone who remembers I claimed an inno on him. Sadly, I just revealed that some of my knowledge is not definitive. I really need to stop telling people things about my role until I have something super-useful, but I didn't want anyone to think this was a self-contradiction. The other report I have revealed (all the mafia are male irl) is definitive, though.


On a different note, now that I understand RedPanda's analysis of Captain Haddock due to mafia-noob's explanation, I actually agree. Captain Haddock is looking pretty scummy to me now.

unvote vote:Captain Haddock

[PokerFace]

Catching up sorry i was not on thursday night

Does no one have any comments on my thoughts about inte-bb? Or at least my observation about inte's turnaround?

Your catch on inte was nice. Not sure I agree with the conection part saul. The comments by both players don't appear to be acts of distancing. BB molla's vote on inte seemed to be done on impulse on a player that he felt came out of no where. You ever play a FPS video game and turn arround and someone who was not there before is now behind you? You shoot that person. Inte's comment on BBmolla came at a time no one was talking about BBmolla. He brought up his comment out of no where where BB's comment was sparked by ML. Came off as though Inte didn't want people to forget BB. If you are scum you want people to forget about your buddies so your buds win you the game. Inte's comment felt as though he didn't want everyone to think BB was town. And Mafia wants no townie to be seen as town. He brought a possibility that BB was scum but didn't say how much he thought BB was scum for BB's overall play.

y'all dumb
i was in the mindset of worst rules Haifa and thinking a scum pro-town recruiter would be pretty worst
like... percent chance roles don't happen, do they? that would leave part of the game to luck, but idk yo

This ain't enugh for me. I would like INTE to explain his read on bb and why he has that read

.

___________

I can't describe how angry I am at this game. I did something really pro that I can't say any more about, and Shadowgirl and I became masons, but then she dies before she can tell anyone that I'm really town. Maf did a good job of trying to frame me and now I've got nothing. I guess it doesn't help to say that I know all the mafia are male and BBmolla isn't one of them if nobody believes I'm town.

I can tell you at this point that Shadowgirl thought I was the Gold Digger, and that's why she was wary of me, but I'm not. And I can't claim what I am.

You don't really need to know when I got that information, but I got it Nights 1 and 3. Being abducted does not appear to affect the ability I still have.

It wasn't part of ShadowGirl's role per se, so of course she wouldn't flip as that.

@Dana, Ok ShadowGirl made a mod-kill very early in the game. Her basic role was understood before night 1. And you say you are some kind of mason searching for her? How many nights have there been this game? 3. Shadow made no comment in game that could give us reason to believe she talked to night 1. And she clearly thought you were scum after night one. So did you go to her night 2? If you needed to talk to her at the utmost of importance for role related reasons, why didn't you do that the first chance you got night 1?

Basically prove you validly got info from all 3 nights. Quote something of shadow's girl play that reflects that as apposed to her calling you scum. If you can't answer that then I think all this info but no explaination you are giving is likly bull shit. If you and her were really together each night then why would she have thought you were one thing and not the other thing and thought you were scum throughout day 2? Your story does not add up dana

___________

No, Red Panda, I think calling someone a stupid monkey is pretty offensive. You should apologize.

In other news, nothing really productive has happened except for saulres bringing my attention to PokerFace. Well, someone else - theam, I think - did it first.

If he was so willing to proxy his vote to RP, why was he so concerned about distancing himself from his proxied vote?

I really, really did not like that. And he really HASN'T done much scumhunting. Being behind is no excuse - he had lots of things to observe, and he chose to mostly observe fluff.

Phil still scum, though.

No, I am actually glad panda used my vote on iceguy. I thought iceguy was scum and someone who had read more than me and someone i thought was town, was agreeing. I read very little of the case on oversoul because it was so long. And Panda used my vote instead of his own. I still think Panda is town but I hate being used. When he used my vote to vote ice it felt right, when he used it to vote oversoul I felt used.

BUT PF, then why did you ask goomba the mod to change both votes in his counts?

well I don't think the mod can change one and not the other. If he did one and not the other he would be infringing on the integrity of his game in a way that could effect players thoughts. Mod's are suppose to be impartial so if he changes one to more accuratly reflect how the game has gone, he must also change the other

I am here
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4030713
I am still reading so expect second post soon

[PokerFace]

When I was abducted, I was basically told that I couldn't post anywhere or use any actions. This does not conflict with me receiving information. There, I've probably told you too much already. N2, I became masons with ShadowGirl.

Ok this answer's when you talked to her, but why not do it first chance you got if you wanted to talk to her so bad? If your role so awesome why not use it first chance you get? So I think your claims could be bullshit

I don't think any player is BS and think people should try to more calmly play the game without insulting others. If you thought my bolded coment earlier was meant to insult for bolding it was not bolded for that

I have answered these exact questions before, I believe.

Whether he's lying about his role is immaterial. I see no reason why it couldn't be a scum role, or a third party role, and whichever it is, he might as well die.

I don't know. How would I know something like that? I don't consider ShadowGirl's reads or Tierce's reads to be particularly important, especially considering ShadowGirl was dead wrong about me. I come up with my own reads, regardless of dead town's thoughts. Are they worth looking at? Sure. Am I going to change my reads for their sake? No way.

Bolded is clearly mine. Too much crap in there to just post it all below the quote. Most of it doesn't require a further response from you, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Do you think Phil's role could be town? If you don't and you don't think he is lying, then what about the role make's him scum?

________________

Never more have I wished this were enabled.

Love that idea. Will post there in support of your idea after this game. Somethings I want to say there could reflect how i feel about this game so I won't post there right now to avoid breaking site rules. But please PM me after this game to post there if I forget

Saul, why do you think there's 2 scum teams?

I don't. Read 1643 again, it's pure speculation. I do that a lot (see my 2nd paragraph).

If you don't think its likly then why speculate about it?

________________

percent chance roles don't happen, do they?

I believe we definatly could have random and or percent chance roles in this game. Alot of roles in the worst ideas thread have random aspects and such things are often consider worst or bad as they can shift game balance too much for a mod to control. If they aren't truly random then its possible the mod could enforce the end result to keep game balance within his realm of control. I did that as mod in 2 of my bastard games and I game links to those games earlier
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=11035
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=11067

________________

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4031568
to
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4032081

I'm actually considering the possibility dana, phil, saul are together or certain ones are together and certain one's aren't. (There likly would be more in the together batch as well just because i don't expect a 2 person scum group in a game this size) If I'm wrong about one of those three it's likly i'm wrong about saul as his play and means of hunting scum feels very simular to my own and yet it doesn't feel like its going directions I would take it. Basically his play feels very simular to mine when I used to have more time on the site. and I have gotten town more often then scum in my time on the site so fact his play could be like old town me gives me alot of hesitation so I'm trying to see if how he is acting on his suspicion is different from how old town me would act as apposed to old scum me. Phil probably should die for all that. I don't think phil is town so he is either 3rd party of mafia in my eyes. I have said why i think that before. Expect a vote from me on one of those three when I get up to speed

I now here:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4032895
I am free today up until arround dinner as Today is my Dad's Bday and tomorrow is mother's day. My family always celebrate's both at the same time given the proximity they have to each other almost every year

[danakillsu]

I can't describe how angry I am at this game. I did something really pro that I can't say any more about, and Shadowgirl and I became masons, but then she dies before she can tell anyone that I'm really town. Maf did a good job of trying to frame me and now I've got nothing. I guess it doesn't help to say that I know all the mafia are male and BBmolla isn't one of them if nobody believes I'm town.

I can tell you at this point that Shadowgirl thought I was the Gold Digger, and that's why she was wary of me, but I'm not. And I can't claim what I am.

You don't really need to know when I got that information, but I got it Nights 1 and 3. Being abducted does not appear to affect the ability I still have.

It wasn't part of ShadowGirl's role per se, so of course she wouldn't flip as that.

@Dana, Ok ShadowGirl made a mod-kill very early in the game. Her basic role was understood before night 1. And you say you are some kind of mason searching for her? How many nights have there been this game? 3. Shadow made no comment in game that could give us reason to believe she talked to night 1. And she clearly thought you were scum after night one. So did you go to her night 2? If you needed to talk to her at the utmost of importance for role related reasons, why didn't you do that the first chance you got night 1?

Basically prove you validly got info from all 3 nights. Quote something of shadow's girl play that reflects that as apposed to her calling you scum. If you can't answer that then I think all this info but no explaination you are giving is likly bull shit. If you and her were really together each night then why would she have thought you were one thing and not the other thing and thought you were scum throughout day 2? Your story does not add up dana

I guess maybe some clarification is needed, so here it is: Night 1, I "masonized" ShadowGirl, if you want to put it that way. Night 2, I talked with her. SHE DIED NIGHT 2. As I said, she thought I was the Gold Digger, most likely, and was wary of me despite the fact that she knew we had a QT together. In fact, that probably made her more wary of me. In other words, I didn't get a chance to talk to her in private in a way that anybody else could get any benefit from. And I couldn't tell her much in this thread, as I've already said several times. Nothing about this doesn't add up, it's just a little confusing.

When I was abducted, I was basically told that I couldn't post anywhere or use any actions. This does not conflict with me receiving information. There, I've probably told you too much already. N2, I became masons with ShadowGirl.

Ok this answer's when you talked to her, but why not do it first chance you got if you wanted to talk to her so bad? If your role so awesome why not use it first chance you get? So I think your claims could be bullshit

I don't think any player is BS and think people should try to more calmly play the game without insulting others. If you thought my bolded coment earlier was meant to insult for bolding it was not bolded for that

I have answered these exact questions before, I believe.

Whether he's lying about his role is immaterial. I see no reason why it couldn't be a scum role, or a third party role, and whichever it is, he might as well die.

I don't know. How would I know something like that? I don't consider ShadowGirl's reads or Tierce's reads to be particularly important, especially considering ShadowGirl was dead wrong about me. I come up with my own reads, regardless of dead town's thoughts. Are they worth looking at? Sure. Am I going to change my reads for their sake? No way.

Bolded is clearly mine. Too much crap in there to just post it all below the quote. Most of it doesn't require a further response from you, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Do you think Phil's role could be town? If you don't and you don't think he is lying, then what about the role make's him scum?

Again, I did talk to her the first chance I got. Night 2. I don't recall saying my role was awesome but it is, and I have used it as much as I can. I really don't feel like answering those last two questions AGAIN, but I will. Yes, I think it could be town. I don't think his role makes him scum. But his role doesn't MAKE him town either. That's what I keep trying to say. His claim is a null tell.

[PokerFace]

What reasons would those be. I haven't seen a single case on me that has been explained, just a few people saying: "He's scum like other people said". That's why I haven't really put a lot of effort into defending myself. There's nothing to defend against.

You noticed that, huh? I feel the same way. There's scum pushing our lynches.

BB, Why is Poker derptown as compared to scum? Witness:

Pokerface:

You exposed BB's lying about his post restriction, true, but that's not scumhunting: Faking PRs is not a scumtell.

Uhm yes faking a PR is a scum tell

and I said why it was, because it gives you something you can hide behind. It can allow you to disregard another players case on you. I asked BBmolla a series of questions when he was still faking PR. Instead of immediatly answering those questions he continued the PR and acted like he couldn't answer those questions becaus of his PR. As the PR was fake he could have easily answered the questions sooner, which is why I thought he was scum before. I still wish he didn't fake a PR at this moment but I think he developed the PR and did it because he thought it was cool more so than hiding behind it. And him thinking it cool falls in line with his earlier thinking he was confirmed

You asked Oversoul a question, true, but that wasn't for scumhunting: You yourself said "thats more of a mafia theory opinion that a consideration of you being scum". Regardless, he did respond to it.

I do not believe oversoul completly understood what I was asking or responded to it properly about GNR. I asked it again after that post of oversouls you link to. I asked oversoul that question because it looked like he was calling GNR TOWN because he made the BAD kill choice and because oversoul said GNR BADLY jumped on a wagon Oversoul was on.

When does a townie do bad or scumy things? And if those things are bad and scumy and they relate to you(this you refers to oversoul), doesn't that make you(oversoul again) scum?

I was trying to see what he thought. And if he indeed had though that then it would make him scum. I was setting a trap to see if oversoul was scum but as he didn't understand what I was getting at I could never develop or use the trap

The Part of my question that related to mafia theory related only to oversoul's day 1 lynch logic. This mafia theory had nothing to do with his opinion on GNR

As far as why I am irate about other people's posts being long while mine are long, there's a very simple reason for that. Tierce and Oversoul posts are the longest in the thread and I don't really spend time reading my own posts. After all why would i need to read my own posts? I just wrote them. I know what they say.

That's hypocritical, though, isn't it? If you don't like when other people do it, you shouldn't do it either. My guess is most people are glazing over your posts and not analyzing them for town/scum behavior.

Never really considered it as hypocritcal because i had a lower number of posts and generally less content. But I guess I can see how its too much all at once and yes that is inherently bad for those reasons. How would you advise I fix this habbit of mine even though I don't have the time in real life to post as oftenly as others post? Does this problem I have make me scum or is it a poor viewpoint

Are you saying you read your posts when you write them? Why?

Sometimes, yes I do. Not in so much detail, but my memory isn't all that great so sometimes I leave myself notes. (Which reminds me I want to look at Foxace. That worked well.)

Congrats, you just made the town response to my question. The scum response would be you read your posts to make sure you don't say something scumy. And that would mean you were trying to look towny and not act scumy. All scum do that

Your arguments about BB's bringing in Tierce is pure WIFOM, but more, it was given by BB. Your explanation of the post numbering thing was also covered,

much

more concisely, by Amrun. (Is that where your title's from?)

Wasn't trying to convince you if BB was town or scum in that post. I was trying to say my opinion of BB had changed and that was part of why it changed. I had planned on saying more on BB and putting other people in that post and saying who else I thought was town, and I will say who else I think is town shortly. I am not certain where I put some of my game notes at the moment on my PC so I'll get to it when I find those notes

I said earlier that Tierce's case for BB=town was too long for me too read so I didn't read all of it. Most of it also relied on Tierce's meta on BB which I don't already have and I wasn't about to read a bunch of Terce/bb molla games because I again I don't have time or desire to read things that long. Instead of doing all the reading, I said earlier that I would develop my own opinion about BB and Tierce and their relationship together based on this game. The end result of this was that opinion.

My title is explained in the title wiki. Long story short, when I was scum in Loser mafia I INTENTIONALLY overly acted useful to the town. People have told me I act inconcise and overly useful in other games as both alignments. Generally I did it more in that game then any other as I intentional chose to do it in loser mafia and it just happens out of habbit in the other games. Because I am not concise in my play as any alignment the title has stuck as I have not found a good way to fix the habbit completly in any game

BTW when you brought up Massclaim earlier Saulres what did you think the massclaim would achieve?

??? I didn't bring it up -- BB did and I said it's not pro-town to do it, and Haddock did and I asked him why he was flipflopping on it.

My bad yo. I think i read something in poor order there.

HADDOCK and BBmolla please answer that question instead

So sorry, but I'm just not seeing pro-town behavior from you.

Blue is me. I no longer lean that saul is scum.

[BBmolla]

I answered that ages ago, actually read what I say instead of just calling me scum.

[RedPanda]

I hope I get somebody I like for foxace's replacement.

[RedPanda]

Dana

Was it "masonized"

or "Neighborzed"

There;s a difference you know.

[BBmolla]

I wanna get someone who yells, they're always fun.

[RedPanda]

Someone who likes to talk trash about some people in this game (qt of course)

Yeah That would be a dream.

this game needs a Kuribo.

[RedPanda]

We might actually get something good done if we had kuribo or someone like him.

[izakthegoomba]

Still searching for a replacement for Foxace36. Please let me know if you know of anyone who could replace in.

Votecount 4.04

Phillammon (3) - saulres, Amrun, BBmolla
Captain Haddock (3) - RedPanda, inte, danakillsu
danakillsu (1) - Captain Haddock
BBmolla (0) -

none

RedPanda (0) -

none

mafia-n00b (0) -

none

inte (0) -

none

Amrun (0) -

none

theamatuer (0) -

none

Foxace36 (0) -

none

saulres (0) -

none

PokerFace (0) -

none

YYR (0) -

none

mcqueen (0) -

none

No Lynch (0) -

none

Not voting (7) - PokerFace, Foxace36, YYR, theamatuer, Phillammon, mcqueen, mafia-n00b

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The deadline is (expired on 2012-05-21 12:12:44)