TM2012 - Closed Normal(Over!)

[Mastermind of Sin]

Uh huh.

Hey, MoS, what scumhunting have you done?

Oh that's right, chainsawed me to try and save Haylen.

She flips scum, we lynch you tomorrow, derpface.

This...doesn't even make a lick of sense. You're the one who started this argument, not me.

[DeltaWave]

I also shouldn't have to explain that WIFOM applies to the whole "bussing is a suboptimal strategy" thing.

[Glork]

My top scum reads have done nothing to make me reconsider, that's why.

No, the answer is that you have done nothing but take cookie-cutter arguments and statements and cram them into your stated suspicion list.

Glork is scum because of self-meta (a glork towntell, ask anyone who played in Winvitational) and AtE (a glork towntell, ask anyone who played in Winvitational). And because he's busing Haylen. Cookie cutter. Convenient.

Haylen is scum because of "reasons that were made obvious already" - mindless cookie cutter parroting.

Murasa is scum because he defended Haylen. Cookie Cutter. Convenient.


Glork challenges your statements, and literally your only defense is to say "WIFOM" over and over again, when WIFOM doesn't even fucking APPLY here, because the two given choices are not equal.


You're not actually taking

ANY

time to get into WHY X or Y might be scum, or why they might be town. What motivation did GlorkScum have to bus Haylen? What evidence do you have that self-meta in general is a scumtell (it isn't), or that Glork using Self-Meta or AtE is a scumtell (it isn't). You can't just SAY these things and not back any of it up. The burden of proof is on

YOU

to convince anybody that I'm scum, so go dig up some fucking examples of Glork throwing an avalanche of self-meta as scum. I fucking DARE you. Oh, wait, you can't. Because it DOESN'T FUCKING EXIST. You are making EMPTY statements.



There is literally.
ZERO.
Thought.
Being put into any of DeltaWave's posts.
He's just regurgitating buzzwords and empty statements and acting like it is some kind of legitimate attack or defense.


ZERO protown curiosity.
ZERO attempts to find motivations behind what players say or do.

ZERO. SCUMHUNTING.


Somebody fucking lynch this joker now.

[PeregrineV]

@Glork-number 13 on the player list. I'm hurt that you forgot I was in the game. You know, if it' s true.

@haylen- no faking conversations allowed.
VOTE: Haylen

[PeregrineV]

@Glork-number 13 on the player list. I'm hurt that you forgot I was in the game. You know, if it' s true.

@haylen- no faking conversations allowed.
VOTE: Haylen

[Glork]

Delta: If Haylen is scum, and Glork/Murasa are her scumbuddies, why is it a good strategic play to have BOTH of them spend a disproportionate amount of time/energy/posts talking about Haylen? How does the ENTIRE SCUMTEAM flying headfirst into the spotlight help the scum win?

[Glork]

Pere, what is your opinion of Delta? Have you read the last ~2 pages?

[PeregrineV]

Read but not studied. Sneaking this time during family gathering, so closer reading tonight or tomorrow.

[Glork]

You'd better not be using this as a scumstalltactic.

To compense, I expect a complete analysis of Delta in your next post.

[Captain Murasa]

Lol

I forgot the wagon on me disappeared

:V

Underlined the bits.

Also I corrected your spelling.

That's just me basically saying "Whoops. That was a fail on my part."

[Captain Murasa]

Why am I scum for defending Haylen who is my townread?

[DeltaWave]

My top scum reads have done nothing to make me reconsider, that's why.

No, the answer is that you have done nothing but take cookie-cutter arguments and statements and cram them into your stated suspicion list.

Glork is scum because of self-meta (a glork towntell, ask anyone who played in Winvitational) and AtE (a glork towntell, ask anyone who played in Winvitational). And because he's busing Haylen. Cookie cutter. Convenient.

Haylen is scum because of "reasons that were made obvious already" - mindless cookie cutter parroting.

Lol, so because I haven't read all your games and I don't know your meta, I'm scum? Nice. Your cases get crappier by the post.

Murasa is scum because he defended Haylen. Cookie Cutter. Convenient.

See, this kind of shit is why you are scum. You're being inconsistent. You argue one thing; then you do a 180 and argue another.

You claimed earlier that scum are less likely to bus because it's Team Mafia.
But when I point out that when Murasa is protecting someone I think is scum (Haylen), OH NOOOO POINTING THAT OUT IS SCUMMY

Really? Because you shot down the idea that scum would bus because there's too much of a reason to keep their teammates alive... but when I point out a situation where I think scum is trying to keep their teammate alive, that's just beyond the pale. LOL

Glork challenges your statements, and literally your only defense is to say "WIFOM" over and over again, when WIFOM doesn't even fucking APPLY here, because the two given choices are not equal.

You just don't get WIFOM. If people run around thinking "oh, scum won't bus because it's bad in Team Mafia" then what the fuck will scum do? BUS. It's like when scum claim crazy roles because it's "too crazy to be scum."

You're not actually taking

ANY

time to get into WHY X or Y might be scum, or why they might be town. What motivation did GlorkScum have to bus Haylen? What evidence do you have that self-meta in general is a scumtell (it isn't), or that Glork using Self-Meta or AtE is a scumtell (it isn't). You can't just SAY these things and not back any of it up. The burden of proof is on

YOU

to convince anybody that I'm scum, so go dig up some fucking examples of Glork throwing an avalanche of self-meta as scum. I fucking DARE you. Oh, wait, you can't. Because it DOESN'T FUCKING EXIST. You are making EMPTY statements.

I'm suspicious of self-meta because it can be easily manipulated. Once someone is aware of their own meta they can use it however they please. I'm not convinced by that, and it's honestly funny how raged you are because I won't accept your self-meta. Accepting self-meta is like believing someone when they say "BELIEVE ME!"

There is literally.
ZERO.
Thought.
Being put into any of DeltaWave's posts.
He's just regurgitating buzzwords and empty statements and acting like it is some kind of legitimate attack or defense.

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's "empty."

ZERO protown curiosity.
ZERO attempts to find motivations behind what players say or do.

ZERO. SCUMHUNTING.

Somebody fucking lynch this joker now.

i can practically smell the desperation

Delta: If Haylen is scum, and Glork/Murasa are her scumbuddies, why is it a good strategic play to have BOTH of them spend a disproportionate amount of time/energy/posts talking about Haylen? How does the ENTIRE SCUMTEAM flying headfirst into the spotlight help the scum win?

WELL LET ME THINK

IF YOU HAVE PEOPLE RUNNING AROUND SAYING, "PEOPLE WHO THROW LOTS OF ENERGY AT EACH OTHER CAN'T BE SCUM TOGETHER"
THEN PEOPLE WHO ARE SCUM TOGETHER WILL THROW LOTS OF ENERGY AT EACH OTHER

P-Edit:

Murasa, you're defending Haylen like they're your own mother. Nobody can be that confident of a read at this point.

[Captain Murasa]

I can be confident at this point if I want to be. I already know my reads can be pretty good as I've caught a scumteam before within 150 pages in my newbie game.

[DeltaWave]

I can be confident at this point if I want to be. I already know my reads can be pretty good as I've caught a scumteam before within 150 pages in my newbie game.

You can say what you want but so far your only defense of Haylen (as far as I've seen, let me know if I missed anything) is that you have a "gut" feeling that they're town. That's not enough for me.

[Captain Murasa]

I know my gut is great because I can catch lots of scum with it. I trust my gut completely and I don't care if you do or don't.

[Porochaz]

Glork, stop making me think your town. I want to be stubborn and set in my ways.

[DeltaWave]

I know my gut is great because I can catch lots of scum with it. I trust my gut completely and I don't care if you do or don't.

then enjoy your position on my most wanted list until you can come up with something that's good

[Glork]

I've caught a scumteam before within

150

pages in my newbie game.

I.... What?

Is this sarcasm, a typo, or what?

[DeltaWave]

LOL I missed the 150 thing

Catching scum in 150 pages isn't very impressive imo

[Glork]

See, this kind of shit is why you are scum. You're being inconsistent. You argue one thing; then you do a 180 and argue another.

You claimed earlier that scum are less likely to bus because it's Team Mafia.
But when I point out that when Murasa is protecting someone I think is scum (Haylen), OH NOOOO POINTING THAT OUT IS SCUMMY

Really? Because you shot down the idea that scum would bus because there's too much of a reason to keep their teammates alive... but when I point out a situation where I think scum is trying to keep their teammate alive, that's just beyond the pale. LOL

There are more interactions than "defending" or "busing" one's scumbuddy.
One might ignore their scumbuddy completely.
One might make innocuous statements about their scumbuddy but not really give a definitive read.
One might flip-flop wildly

You KNOW this to be true, Delta. You

KNOW

that there are more than two ways to treat a scumbuddy. Why can't MoS (who has barely said a word about Haylen all game) be her scumbuddy? It's

POSSIBLE

that Haylen's scumbuddies are ignoring her entirely. See what I did there?

You also have done

NOTHING

to distinguish why Glork-Haylen is a possible scumteam, but, say, UberNinja-Haylen is not a possible scumteam. It's

POSSIBLE

that UberNinja is busing Haylen. See what I did there, too?

You just don't get WIFOM. If people run around thinking "oh, scum won't bus because it's bad in Team Mafia" then what the fuck will scum do? BUS. It's like when scum claim crazy roles because it's "too crazy to be scum."

Son, I've been playing mafia on mafiascum before the WIFOM tell even existed. Don't tell me I don't understand it. I understand it better than you understand what the concept of "voting" is.

There are TWO ways to treat WIFOM.
The correct way is to use it to discern a player's motivations. "Scum nightkilled Player X before LyLo, and Player X suspected Player Y. What can we learn about Player Y beacuse of this?"
The incorrect way is to use it to reduce every argument to "well scum COULD have done this, so I'm right."

Guess which one YOU'RE doing, champ?
(HINT: NOT THE PROTOWN ONE.)

I'm suspicious of self-meta because it can be easily manipulated. Once someone is aware of their own meta they can use it however they please. I'm not convinced by that, and it's honestly funny how raged you are because I won't accept your self-meta. Accepting self-meta is like believing someone when they say "BELIEVE ME!"

This raises an interesting point.
Yes, someone who is aware of their own meta

CAN

maniuplate it in theory.
But in practice,

how often do people actually DO it?

(Answer: Not often at alll. The phrase "self-meta" is so taboo, nobody does it except for people who are completely comfortable as town. Hmm. I wonder who that applies to.)

Delta, can you please link me the

TWO

most recent examples you've actually witnessed/experienced in which scum used self-meta to manipulate town into thinking they were town?

Because once again, you're trying to convince everyone that a world of possibilities is a world of actualities. And it is not. They are two VERY different things.

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's "empty."

Really. You really think that WIFOM is a valid argument and needs no explanation into the thought processes of the people who are supposedly acting in a "WIFOM"y manner? Do you fail to understand how logical arguments work in mafia, or do you actually enjoy talking out of your ass?

WELL LET ME THINK

IF YOU HAVE PEOPLE RUNNING AROUND SAYING, "PEOPLE WHO THROW LOTS OF ENERGY AT EACH OTHER CAN'T BE SCUM TOGETHER"
THEN PEOPLE WHO ARE SCUM TOGETHER WILL THROW LOTS OF ENERGY AT EACH OTHER

"HEY GUYS, I KNOW THAT GLORK IS RIGHT, BUT I'M JUST GOING TO RESORT TO SCREAMING WIFOM AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS AGAIN. YEAH, SCUM ARE SHOOTING THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT IF THEY PLAY LIKE SHIT, BUT HEY MAYBE THEY MIGHT POSSIBLY MAYBE PERHAPS PLAY LIKE SHIT BECAUSE NOBODY WOULD EXPECT THEM TO PLAY LIKE SHIT. YEP. TOTALLY LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT."

[Glork]

You know, Delta, if at any point in the last five hours you had just posted your exact thoughts on

WHY

your protown reads are protown reads and

WHY

you think Glork was trying to bus/distance, and Murasa would want to defend Haylen so intently, I wouldn't be embarassing you in front of a jury of our peers.

Like, I've gone out of my way to give you every opportunity to show even one iota of protown insight, and you've done your absolute best to give us nothing whatsoever.



My vote isn't moving off DeltaWave until one of us is dead.
Signed.
Sealed.
Delivered.

[Glork]

Oh, and I forgot to respond to the first line of Delta's big post.

Lol, so because I haven't read all your games and I don't know your meta, I'm scum? Nice. Your cases get crappier by the post.

No, you're scum because you literally slapped down two arbitrary "tells" and never bothered to see if either of them made any sense whatsoever within the context of GlorkScum.

You know what Murasa did when he was trying to figure out Glork's alignment?

He fucking asked me to link to recent games so that he could learn about Glorkmeta.

He actually fucking tried.
To learn.
Whether I'm scum or not.


You, however, have made no such effort.

[Captain Murasa]

Oh yeah that was a fail typo, I mean 150 posts.

[Glork]

Wait wait wait wait.

How is Post 429 even an attack by way of ATE?

Keep floundering Glork

You're cute when you try to talk smack. You single?

Looks like someone is getting nervous. I think you know on some level that your reason for voting for me is razor thin so now you're trying to point the finger away from yourself as best you can.

I was being a condescending asshole. There wasn't even any emotion SHOWN in that post.

I assumed you were accusing me of ATE because of my response to Porochaz's "I expect more out of Glorktown," not this complete bullshit. There isn't even any ATE in that post.

[Glork]

Holy shit. One of Delta's fundamental reasons for calling me scum isn't even VALID.

This guy. Needs so dead.