TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.16

Thestatusquo (4) - singersigner, Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez, Llamarble
Captain Haddock (3) - Amrun, Bub Bidderskins, Matias
Johhog (2) - Regfan, SocioPath
Amrun (1) - Johhog
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - Benmage
Matias (1) - Captain Haddock

Not Voting (1) - Thestatusquo

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 21, 2012, at 12:00 AM EDT (UTC-4).

Mod Notes

Bub Bidderskins is V/LA until May 14.

[Llamarble]

Grey thinks Amrun's TSQ scumtell she can't talk about is BS for reasons I can't talk about.
I'm open to the possibility we just missed something though. It seems an odd thing to fake.

I guess she could've gotten the idea from my Johhogtell though.
And I know she can fake odd things.

[Amrun]

For the record, it's not something I would have caught on my own. It's something from a teammate. But that would be a fucking stupid thing to fake. Like I don't even see the scum motivation for doing that.

[Llamarble]

Yeah, I find it at least as likely that you're scum whose teammate found something as it is that you made something up.

Regfan is sketchier than I remembered, but I agree with him about most things.

[Captain Haddock]

I asked, and Captain Murasa doesnt mind me saying he's Om of the nom. His scum read on Zach was a meta read.



Shea-benmage-Llamarble is the scum team.

Your Amrunscumread sucks, Regfan.

SHEA-BENMAGE-LLAMARBLE 2012

Scum: Thestatusquo, benmage, Llamarble
Back-up scum: Bud Bibberskins, Captain Haddock, Amrun

We're lynching sheascum Today, so that seems very productive to me.

SHEA-BENMAGE-LLAMARBLE 2012

1. CES' reads have been static for half the game so far. Maybe a top scumread stays the same for a long time, but all 3 top reads don't stay the same when you're looking for scum. Especially when you have a whole team's worth of people with new ideas.

I no longer find CES quite-towny because of this.

As for his analysis coming up with reasoning

time will tell

.

He's made loads of posts but had no reasoning so obviously not.


The lurking dickhead is better than the other possible lynches but I'm not voting him just yet.

Amrun, why have you barely talked about me since your 19th post out of 63? And why haven't you called anyone scum since then? VOTE: Amrun

[Regfan]

Llarmanle, Amrun isn't making up that thing about TSQ. I noticed something the same thing she did too.

I can't work out your Johhog-thing but I did go and do a meta-check through all a bunch of his games. Didn't read them in detail and only came across one scum game of his but his play here and the 'changing votes without explanation' is something he seems to tend to do as town which is mostly what I wanted to look to see if it was the case or not. I did come across this and this post of his here he states he much strongly prefers town roles, though he was scum in that game. Looked a little further and found him saying essentially the same thing in this game so I'm nowhere near as comfortable lynching him anymore.

Amrun, why have you barely talked about me since your 19th post out of 63? And why haven't you called anyone scum since then? VOTE: Amrun

This was something I noticed and have been waiting for a response from my team-mates for a while but they all seem to have gone AWOL.

Unvote, Vote: Amrun

[Llamarble]

^Town unless Johhog's scum.
Scum don't randomly spike plausible mislynches often, and especially don't put in a bunch of meta effort to do so.

VOTE: Amrun
Basically same reason as Regfan/Haddock.

[singersigner]

So shitty life things happened last night when I expected to devote time to this game, and I've been in the process of fixing them all day while celebrating friends' graduations and whatnot. I'll be heading home tomorrow morning-ish, so expect something then. Sorry, guys.

@Llamarble...that vote seems awfully opportunistic...

[Matias]

Unvote

.

I'm not buying the Amrun wagon, but I like Haddock's observation.

Re-reading.

[Matias]

My teammates came up with this as the only huge problem with Amrun:

And my issue with explaining town reads in such detail - EXCEPT when it is vital in order to prevent that town member from being lynched - is long standing. A) It gives a map to scum for the NK. You addressed this earlier so I thought this was self-evident. Apologies. But there is a B) it allows scum to modify their behavior to engender town reads from the players they think that it is most strategically useful to engender town reads in. For example, if I said Player X is scummy because he's too passive, and Player Y is townish because she is so aggressive, Player X can try to act more aggressive to fit into my town reads.

This apparently is a lie because she was town in a game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3540935

She kept explaining her town read on Shattered Viewpoint in this game. Everyone found it weird because SV wasn't close to being lynched and she ended up being town in this game

She really has no problem as town explaining her town reads when the person isn't close to being lynched.

Both of these bring Amrun to a neutral-scummy, but I'm not sure I like how the wagon started.

[Matias]

I think my main issue is Llamarble's vote.

Vote: Amrun

It's something to keep in mind regardless. I want Amrun to explain herself.

[Amrun]

My teammates came up with this as the only huge problem with Amrun:

And my issue with explaining town reads in such detail - EXCEPT when it is vital in order to prevent that town member from being lynched - is long standing. A) It gives a map to scum for the NK. You addressed this earlier so I thought this was self-evident. Apologies. But there is a B) it allows scum to modify their behavior to engender town reads from the players they think that it is most strategically useful to engender town reads in. For example, if I said Player X is scummy because he's too passive, and Player Y is townish because she is so aggressive, Player X can try to act more aggressive to fit into my town reads.

This apparently is a lie because she was town in a game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3540935

She kept explaining her town read on Shattered Viewpoint in this game. Everyone found it weird because SV wasn't close to being lynched and she ended up being town in this game

She really has no problem as town explaining her town reads when the person isn't close to being lynched.

Both of these bring Amrun to a neutral-scummy, but I'm not sure I like how the wagon started.

Are you fucking retarded?

I was a cop with an innocent on SV in that game. Like, fucking seriously. That might be the dumbest thing I've ever read.


Also, my playstyle has evolved a lot and I didn't always ascribe to that theory. There's this thing called "learning" that happens.


ALSO, if you had not noticed, I have called TSQ scummy. I have lots of townreads, and several other reads that are leaning scummy in a more slight way, but no one jumps out at me as much as Haddock. I have been observing Haddock and seen nothing to dissuade me; the topic of his conversation has NEVER ONCE CHANGED, until about a post ago. He is STILL talking about Matias and the thing that happened way back then that I am still voting him for. And note - who does he vote for, but someone else that he perceives to be threatening him. Yeah, my vote is in the right place.

[Amrun]

btw, traveling tomorrow, idk if can post, etc

[Matias]

Unvote

Don't shoot the messenger. Jeez, they brought up that context, not me.

[Matias]

Rhinox posted that. I've yelled at him in the QT.

[Matias]

Oh oops, he mentioned it offhand like a post after that. Just ignore that, I really didn't check the end of the game for role clarification, I just assumed you were a VT.

Yeah I haven't a fucking clue, I'm not really reading my QT as closely as I thought.

[Regfan]

ALSO, if you had not noticed, I have called TSQ scummy. I have lots of townreads, and several other reads that are leaning scummy in a more slight way, but no one jumps out at me as much as Haddock. I have been observing Haddock and seen nothing to dissuade me; the topic of his conversation has NEVER ONCE CHANGED, until about a post ago. He is STILL talking about Matias and the thing that happened way back then that I am still voting him for. And note - who does he vote for, but someone else that he perceives to be threatening him. Yeah, my vote is in the right place.

Lets say Captain is attacking someone that is 'threatening him' again. His reasoning this time unlike against Matias is completely sound. I don't find anything in your ISO that shows any hint of suspicion towards anyone other than TSQ and Captain, the TSQ suspicion is universal right now is based around some outside factors so I wouldn't consider that a read brought about by scumhunting. That means that the only thing your ISO shows in terms of 'scum' 'hunting' is your FoS on Captain which you haven't expanded on any further until now. That's a very little amount of scum reads for the amount of posts that you have and I find that scum find it a lot more difficult to fake reasoning behind scum-reads thus the absence of them is incredibly scummy.

[Regfan]

Matias, what's the last 'reads' that your team left behind in your QT?

[Matias]

Amrun is neutral to me now that I realized that she had a cop inno

Damn I'm more embarrassed than anything, I swear I'm not stupid, I just didn't check my facts

Edit: Nothing since Amrun. They're more concerned with Almost Normal, for good reason. This game is a little slow.

[Regfan]

That wasn't meant as an insult, Johhoq. I was in the exact same position last year, and still somewhat this year. You and Haddock are just less experienced than the rest of this playerlist. Weakestt becomes quite relative when the overall level is high.

Also Amrun; Here you admit that Haddock is a 'weaker' player than a lot of the other playerlist, so why is you parking your vote on a weak player and doing little else in terms of pushing or stating scum reads something that shouldn't be considered a scum-tell?

[Matias]

I asked them about TSQ but didn't get an answer quite yet. I have no clue what to make of his obvlurking. I don't even know if it's even inherently scummy.

My reads are a jumble after Haddock's last post

[Amrun]

I don't really care if anything I do may or may not be perceived as a scumtell by some. I'm working in my own way and I'm fine with that. This game isn't a normal game and I'm not playing it like one. I'm using my QT and I may or may not share all information out of it as I see pertinent. I don't really care how that looks because - shocker - I'm not scum. I've done several things already that would be very questionable for scum to do, but I'm not going to bother pointing them out as I think they should speak for themselves.

I do owe this game a good re-read, but I've been in the middle of end of semester and moving out (and am again am moving across the country for the umpteenth time this year, tomorrow).

Also, kuribo wishes to say that, as usual, he thinks Llamarble is retarded.

[SocioPath]

I'm using my QT and I may or may not share all information out of it as I see pertinent.

There is zero reason not to share your team's reads with us. ZERO.

I know your team is scumhunting, if you're town, and your other teammates are not concerned with talking about it. So why are you?

IT IS LIKE THEY WRITE THEMSELVES.

[Amrun]

It's like they ignore context all by themselves. I've been sharing most of what my team thinks, and I clearly have good reasons for not sharing it all, namely not being modkilled. What's your excuse?

[Regfan]

It's like they ignore context all by themselves. I've been sharing most of what my team thinks, and I clearly have good reasons for not sharing it all,

namely not being modkilled

. What's your excuse?

This really isn't true. You can state a lot more about what's going on in your QT as long as you paraphrase it.