TM2012 - Closed Normal(Over!)

[Mastermind of Sin]

ITT Glork > DeltaWave

Vote: DeltaWave

I'm not entirely confident that Delta isn't just an idiot, but this is as good a place as any to put some pressure and see what pops out.

[UberNinja]

Wow, fuck you, Glork.

[UberNinja]

My vote isn't moving off DeltaWave until one of us is dead.
Signed.
Sealed.
Delivered.

Your wish is my command, asshole.

Vote: Glork

[Porochaz]

MoS why do you think Glork is town?

[DeltaWave]

ITT Glork > DeltaWave

Vote: DeltaWave

I'm not entirely confident that Delta isn't just an idiot, but this is as good a place as any to put some pressure and see what pops out.

Look at Jason and Murasa's reasons for voting me, then see if you can tell me that this wagon isn't scumdriven.

[Glork]

So suddenly the OMGUS swings in Jason's direction. You weren't accusing him of being scum driving your wagon the other day. Why now?

[DeltaWave]

So suddenly the OMGUS swings in Jason's direction. You weren't accusing him of being scum driving your wagon the other day. Why now?

Nice try on the misrep but I called him "suspect" in Post #469. The fact that you need to make up shit to support your case is proof enough that this wagon is totally scumdriven.

[GreyICE]

My vote isn't moving off DeltaWave until one of us is dead.
Signed.
Sealed.
Delivered.

Your wish is my command, asshole.

Vote: Glork

Hey Uber, if Glork is scum... What is he doing? He could ride the Haylen wagon to finish and blame me when it fails.

Why is he not doing that?

[Glork]

So suddenly the OMGUS swings in Jason's direction. You weren't accusing him of being scum driving your wagon the other day. Why now?

Nice try on the misrep but I called him "suspect" in Post #469. The fact that you need to make up shit to support your case is proof enough that this wagon is totally scumdriven.

You're right in that I missed 469, but that was still an immediate response to him attacking/voting you. So you're still guilty of bad OMGUS.

[Glork]

You also haven't explained how I've actually shown any AtE in referring to your throwaway comment as "cute," not have you explained how AtE from Glork is a scumtell. Please do so.

[DeltaWave]

So suddenly the OMGUS swings in Jason's direction. You weren't accusing him of being scum driving your wagon the other day. Why now?

Nice try on the misrep but I called him "suspect" in Post #469. The fact that you need to make up shit to support your case is proof enough that this wagon is totally scumdriven.

You're right in that I missed 469, but that was still an immediate response to him attacking/voting you. So you're still guilty of bad OMGUS.

"Immediate response"? I interrogated him as to his reasons in #456 and #459, and only called him suspect when he failed to give one reason for voting me other than "Glork said it".

Glork, do you find it suspicious that Jason would concur with your reasoning so blindly without adding anything of his own? Do you find it suspicious that, in concurring, he ignored my rebuttal to your argument and apparently didn't even seem to care that I rebutted it?

P-Edit: I find that when people toss in filler when the going gets rough, they tend to be mafia.

[Glork]

Filler? Where did I use filler?

[DeltaWave]

Filler? Where did I use filler?

Respond to my entire post.

Jason parroted what you said, and when I pressed him on it, he gave no support for the argument other than you said it. I showed him my rebuttal to that argument, and he completely and willfully ignored it. Doesn't that seem at least the SLIGHTEST bit suspicious to you?

In response to your question: as this argument has gone on, and as I've continually rebutted your points, you've amped up the abrasiveness. That's what I'm referring to.

[DeltaWave]

BTW, I won't let this line of questioning slide. I'm going to continually insist that you answer it if you dodge it again.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS why do you think Glork is town?

His defense of himself makes sense so far.

[DeltaWave]

MoS, I'd like to hear your response to the question I posted in #612

[Glork]

No, it doesn't seem the slightest bit suspicious. I had a protown read in jasonT well before he agreed with my argument, and he hasn't done anything to make me doubt that. Considering your "rebuttal" was a stock non-answer, I can understand why he (and others) have largely ignored it.

Now, please explain Post 429.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I haven't read a single one of Jason's posts as of yet in this game. Actually, that's probably not true. I'm pretty sure I saw him post once, but I have no idea what he said.

[UberNinja]

My vote isn't moving off DeltaWave until one of us is dead.
Signed.
Sealed.
Delivered.

Your wish is my command, asshole.

Vote: Glork

Hey Uber, if Glork is scum... What is he doing? He could ride the Haylen wagon to finish and blame me when it fails.

Why is he not doing that?

I'm voting on Glork on fucking principle.

I'm not interested in him blaming you. I'm interested in him being dead.

[Porochaz]

Hi Glork,

Here is my problem with you.

There is a site meta which you have picked up recently which I hate. You didn't use to do this so it's why Im finding it scummy. So let's get this ironed out, it's always going to go against you but I want to explain my thought process.

Your votes have been on Haylen, UN, Pere, iam and Delta. The first four of which you failed to really give a clear explanation on, hence the flailing comments. It took a bit to get clear reasoning out of you for the first two. When I did, I felt the reasoning was extremely poor, particularly in UN's case.

Haylen was okay as an exploratory vote (which by the way, is not a vote to lynch, hence different things) but from the look of your posts you seem lost by where you should stand with her. I have no idea what your actual thoughts are and to be honest I've stopped caring, they seem to change with every Haylen related post. Regardless from the reasoning you gave me was that she was playing against meta. Not a particularly strong reason...

But then we move onto UN. Who you seemed to vote for based on a statement he made in mafia discussion about his own meta. Him discussing his own meta in another mafia game would be an iffy vote. If you know your meta, you can change your meta. I am unsure why I have had to say it to you. You have taking a random statement from a random thread in mafia discussion to choose how to vote. I don't know how you can't see how ridiculous tenuous that is.

Your next two votes are lurker votes. Easy, brainless votes.

Then we move onto your "scumhunting" post and site meta and one of the main reasons Im pissing off soon. It's this whole "Blah Blah is town" or "Proffesor X is scum, LYNCH LYNCH DIE SUCK DIE" mentality. It's clearly shown in your Jason statement. Where you pointing out Jason is town is scumhunting. Firstly, and not really my point, it's not, it's townhunting. Secondly, it's not because you are telling us Jason is town, you aren't telling us why. Now people like Grey, I can get pissy with all I want, they play like that. But for someone who is usually well reasoned, outside as well as inside of games, you not telling us your reasoning suggests to me you don't have any or they are just really weak votes.

Then we move onto the Deltawave vote, and you have redeemed yourself somewhat with that vote. It's like you have suddenly managed to sink your teeth into something thats not shit. I am interested in how that argument goes. Will be looking closer at deltawave in the coming days.

unvote

[jasonT1981]

Home, but frackin exhausted from work. Normal service resumes after a good night sleep.

[UberNinja]

Hi Glork,

Here is my problem with you.

There is a site meta which you have picked up recently which I hate. You didn't use to do this so it's why Im finding it scummy. So let's get this ironed out, it's always going to go against you but I want to explain my thought process.

Your votes have been on Haylen, UN, Pere, iam and Delta. The first four of which you failed to really give a clear explanation on, hence the flailing comments. It took a bit to get clear reasoning out of you for the first two. When I did, I felt the reasoning was extremely poor, particularly in UN's case.

Haylen was okay as an exploratory vote (which by the way, is not a vote to lynch, hence different things) but from the look of your posts you seem lost by where you should stand with her. I have no idea what your actual thoughts are and to be honest I've stopped caring, they seem to change with every Haylen related post. Regardless from the reasoning you gave me was that she was playing against meta. Not a particularly strong reason...

But then we move onto UN. Who you seemed to vote for based on a statement he made in mafia discussion about his own meta. Him discussing his own meta in another mafia game would be an iffy vote. If you know your meta, you can change your meta. I am unsure why I have had to say it to you. You have taking a random statement from a random thread in mafia discussion to choose how to vote. I don't know how you can't see how ridiculous tenuous that is.

Your next two votes are lurker votes. Easy, brainless votes.

Then we move onto your "scumhunting" post and site meta and one of the main reasons Im pissing off soon. It's this whole "Blah Blah is town" or "Proffesor X is scum, LYNCH LYNCH DIE SUCK DIE" mentality. It's clearly shown in your Jason statement. Where you pointing out Jason is town is scumhunting. Firstly, and not really my point, it's not, it's townhunting. Secondly, it's not because you are telling us Jason is town, you aren't telling us why. Now people like Grey, I can get pissy with all I want, they play like that. But for someone who is usually well reasoned, outside as well as inside of games, you not telling us your reasoning suggests to me you don't have any or they are just really weak votes.

Then we move onto the Deltawave vote, and you have redeemed yourself somewhat with that vote. It's like you have suddenly managed to sink your teeth into something thats not shit. I am interested in how that argument goes. Will be looking closer at deltawave in the coming days.

unvote

tl;dr: So he does shit after shit after shit after shit, but you unvote him at the first sign of non-shit?

[Porochaz]

If you "dr" then you really have no basis to be asking questions.

[Glork]

Fair enough on the "townhunting" (or, as it's more commonly called, "PoE") point. I have noticed that I've been doing this since I got back. FWIW, it's something I did both in My Little Pony Mafia and WINvitational. I don't think scumhunting-by-Process-of-Elimination is a bad thing, but I do agree that it's probably overdone.

But since you asked so nicely, I'll explain my jasontownread.
It actually stemmed when someone on my team (chamber, I think) said jason's Post 164 looked like it had been carefully crafted, because of the out-of-order examples on bandwagoning. That prompted me to go back and look at what else jason had done, and what I found was really interesting.
While I agree that the post was clearly structured to make a point, take a look at Post 125, Post 127, and Post 161. Jason plainly asks for a game, states his intent to read through it to get a beat on Grey, and then

so very casually clears GreyICE

after reading it. The manner of language, unless Jason is scum

with GreyICE

speaks to a protown mindset. Scum would be more interested in blahblahblah-let-me-get-town-cred-for-buddying-GreyTown. And not only that, but immediately after saying he's not concerned with Grey, he asks Grey why he's going lurkerhunting... again, to what end would JasonScum do that?

So, what motivation does Jason have for asking for & reading through a game, and just going "ok, yeah, he's town" and then grill Grey on MoS/CoolDog, and make a thought-out, constructed case against Slaxx? Well, as town the motivation is obvious, assuming Jason is a straight shooter. He thinks Grey's town but wants Grey's focus on more productive things, and he wants attention brought to Slaxx. As scum, I'm having a lot of difficulty finding any motivation (again, unless he's scum *with* Grey).

Basically, unless something happens to change my opinion on Grey, I'm not really interested in pursuing Jason. Naturally, it's possible he's pulled the wool over my eyes, but that's not a concern for me at this time.

[DeltaWave]

No, it doesn't seem the slightest bit suspicious. I had a protown read in jasonT well before he agreed with my argument, and he hasn't done anything to make me doubt that. Considering your "rebuttal" was a stock non-answer, I can understand why he (and others) have largely ignored it.

Now, please explain Post 429.

I don't believe that for a second. What part of my rebuttal was a "stock non-answer"? You and Jason claimed that I put Murasa, Haylen and yourself on my top scum suspect list because you had the largest wagons. That was a bullshit argument in the first place, since we were early in the game and the Murasa and Glork wagon only had 2 votes, but I played along and gave independent reasons for suspecting the three of you. I explained in Post #456 why I had the suspects I did, and

linked to the specific posts that generated suspicion for me.

Now how the hell is that a "non-answer"? You had some time to come up with a good BS reply because you dodged it the first time I asked, I expected you to have better than this.

Here's another question Glork. Murasa's reason for voting me has been nothing but "gut", "you look scummy" and "you put me on your suspect list." If you want to talk about non-answers, what do you think of that? You are so inconsistent that it's unreal. You want to take my post, that has links to the posts of my suspects and why I suspected them, and call that a non-answer... but when Murasa comes out with "oh herp derp deltawave is scummy because of gut and he put me on his suspect list", that's somehow kosher to you? If you're going to make up reasons to vote me you should take better care to make them more consistent.

I don't see what the problem is with 429.