NY 151: Playground Mafia (Game Over-Mafia Win!)

[Kublai Khan]

This is a mehful attack.

The attack is sound. Your reaction is what's meh.

[drmyshotgun]

Seriously. Someone vig Scooby. But then again he's screaming to be vig-ed.

[Maxous]

Even as town yes Seacore should of voted Junpei, he would'nt know for sure that Junpei is town while he knows he is.
I found it more suspect that he did'nt stick with his Junpei vote(as in asking for cases) and talked about forming a third wagon(personally that is the approach I feel scum is more likely to take rather than,"i'm voting Junpei because it is of no benefit that I just let myself be lynched" - which would be correct)

But most of all Seacore wanted to start a wagon on shotgun because he thought shotgun proposed a no-lynch.
That's scummy, that's very similar to why we're wagoning Pine in the first place.

Why would scum just propose a no-lynch like that? What is the scum benefit to announcing that?
It would bring negative attention to them from a situation where it is completely unneccessary.

[Kublai Khan]

Even as town yes Seacore should of voted Junpei, he would'nt know for sure that Junpei is town while he knows he is.

Wrong. What if Junpei was a doctor/cop/whatever that really didn't want to claim unless he was at L-1? Why the fuck would a VT risk that?

Seacore had no idea what Junpei's claim was. Any good VT knows that they deserve to die instead of a town PR. Why would VT-Seacore vote for someone he had

ZERO

read on when he knows that he's the most expendable town-role when the shit is deadlined to hit the fan?

[Maxous]

Any good VT knows that they deserve to die instead of a town PR.

Disagree... but it's late and i'm tired so i'm not discussing game theory

[Junpei]

Ugh. I can't watch this. I just have to intervene because Kublai's logic is bugging me too much.

Kublai: Your logic is fine only if Seacore has reason beyond randomness to think that I'm a PR. Granted he didn't have reason beyond randomness to think I'm scum (which is why it's scummy). If you want to make the point that Seacore shouldn't have voted before getting a read on me and then deciding whether to kneel over and die or not then fine; but you're presenting that point as if you are saying that VTs should all die to avoid risk of PR-claiming prematurely.

[Seacore]

Also, as you've pointed out, I didn't even put Junpei on L-1, so why should I be scared of him being lynched? Junpei was a much better place for me to park my vote while I read than wherever Pine had it. Enough people are saying this is a null for it to be a null, even if you disagree that it's a smart action.

Benmage. Seacore is a boy, he has boy bits.

Proposing a no-lynch in the 11th hour is absolutely scum motivated, Max. No-lynches are nearly always pro-scum. If there is enough distraction for there to not be a lynch, the scum get to watch town bring up the Junpei v Seacore fight again tomorrow and they've had a free NK in the meantime... I mean seriously, that's pretty obvious.

[Junpei]

Seacore: Is a vote parked on me better than no vote parked at all?

I agree scum would want a no lynch, but would scum want to admit that they want a no lynch?

[Psyche]

This is a mehful attack.

The attack is sound. Your reaction is what's meh.

No, it's stupid and based on false assumptions about player psychology. But I'd rather this be addressed by the defender, so I just wanted to give some indication of how much I approve of it.

[Psyche]

Even as town yes Seacore should of voted Junpei, he would'nt know for sure that Junpei is town while he knows he is.

Wrong. What if Junpei was a doctor/cop/whatever that really didn't want to claim unless he was at L-1? Why the fuck would a VT risk that?

Seacore had no idea what Junpei's claim was. Any good VT knows that they deserve to die instead of a town PR. Why would VT-Seacore vote for someone he had

ZERO

read on when he knows that he's the most expendable town-role when the shit is deadlined to hit the fan?

Because he knows to himself that he's confirmed town. :/

[Kublai Khan]

Ugh. I can't watch this. I just have to intervene because Kublai's logic is bugging me too much.

Kublai: Your logic is fine only if Seacore has reason beyond randomness to think that I'm a PR. Granted he didn't have reason beyond randomness to think I'm scum (which is why it's scummy). If you want to make the point that Seacore shouldn't have voted before getting a read on me and then deciding whether to kneel over and die or not then fine; but you're presenting that point as if you are saying that VTs should all die to avoid risk of PR-claiming prematurely.

Oh, not all VTs. If Seacore is a VT and had read the game (by being in it or catch-up reading), then I would have no problem with his voting for you because it was be an informed vote.

If you replace into a VT slot and it's a "you or him" situation and you have no time to read, then it just breaks down to mathematical odds. Statistically, in a closed setup, how likely is someone to be scum versus a town PR?

Also, as you've pointed out, I didn't even put Junpei on L-1, so why should I be scared of him being lynched?

Don't play that game. A L-2 vote isn't that much different from a L-1 vote with a deadline looming.

[Seacore]

So, I shouldn't vote for Junpei until I found out if he's a PR or not.
But I shouldn't bring him to claiming level with a vote...

So what was I supposed to do again?

Seacore: Is a vote parked on me better than no vote parked at all?

I agree scum would want a no lynch, but would scum want to admit that they want a no lynch?

Yes, a vote parked on you reminds all players that despite a tight deadline, i'm not the only possible lynch.

And not all scum play optimally, otherwise we wouldn't catch them, seriously, what is the point of this question, are you just grasping at flaws to try and paint me as scum? Everything Seacore says is questionable! Look how I question it.

[Kublai Khan]

So, I shouldn't vote for Junpei until I found out if he's a PR or not.
But I shouldn't bring him to claiming level with a vote...

So what was I supposed to do again?

No, when you replace into a suspected VT slot, you power-read as much as possible. Whatever you don't finish reading you ask questions on. Then you vote your gut and/or your conscience. Failing that, sheep whoever you have the strongest town-read on.

Voting your counter-wagon and making excuses as to why you haven't read anything yet is something that scum do.

[Seacore]

I explained why I couldn't do any reading. I have been travelling and attending a wedding all weekend. The little mobile phone reading I could do was spent keeping up and responding... you know, actually contributing as best i could at the time. I explained this as soon as I replaced in. I said when i'd be able to start real reading and when to expect posts from me and so far I have not failed in meeting a deadline.

I would like you to recognise that voting my counter wagon is something that I feel was right to do and something that a bunch of other people have agreed with, so you disagreeing is an opinion.

Anyway, that first bit was PEDIT, here is the rest:

So, I just ISO'd Junpei and I've got a pretty good town read on him.
Which is terribly unfortunate. He's aggressive, he's arrogant and he's dishing out confirmation bias like it's tasty tasty soup, but he reads as town.

And I'm not sure if anybody disagrees with me given that THERE HAS NOT BEEN A CASE POSTED!

So, now I get the fun job of trying to save my life by finding an actual scummy person and trying to persuade 10 people to jump on board with me.
I'm about to go into a meeting, and then I'll be working for the rest of the day, but hopefully I'll have something later tonight.

Also, how many people are just lurking their way through this thing? Can we lynch one of them?

[Code_X]

We should have lynched Mastin.

[DeasVail]

Please lynch seacore guys.

His scumread on Junpei seems predetermined, as in he decided to have a scumread on Junpei and demonstrate this with his posting, instead of considering things first. Junpei's actually not very scummy, so I don't really believe that Seacore would replace in and think Junpei was scum. The part where he says Junpei knew he'd been hammered comes across as too sure that Junpei is scum, and is what I feel fuels my above point. I'd expect more consideration of whether he really wanted to make Junpei the only viable counterwagon to himself. In any case, I think he's a better lynch than Junpei and if nothing else, you should just vote him for this reason. (I'll feel really embarrassed if Junpei is scum and Seacore town)

tl;dr LYNCH SEACORE. TRUST ME.

Code_X, why say that now?

[Code_X]

I've been saying it for days. Keep up.

It's futile though in the state of the game.

[FakeGod]

Sorry I didn't post in awhile. I am incredibly sick at the moment.

However, this is long overdue.

VOTE: Seacore

[DeasVail]

I've been saying it for days. Keep up.

It's futile though in the state of the game.

That doesn't answer my question.

Sorry I didn't post in awhile. I am incredibly sick at the moment.

However, this is long overdue.

VOTE: Seacore

Good move.

[Seacore]

Um, DV, do you actually read my posts, or just skip them and decide what I've said separately ?

[DeasVail]

Um, DV, do you actually read my posts, or just skip them and decide what I've said separately ?

A bit of both, why?

[Seacore]

Because my most recent post details that I think junpei is town. So it seems that its you that has pre-decided that I'm scum.

[DeasVail]

I haven't read your most recent post yet, sorry.

[DeasVail]

It actually doesn't make much of a difference to my point. Why did you think it did?

[Code_X]

@DV - merely pissed off. I don't think either of these lynches are great - what choice do I have though. I had Pine and Junpei both more townish than scum.