TM2012: Scummies 2011.5 - Let the credits roll!

[hitogoroshi]

Quil, if Ajax is scum (and how could he not be, at this point) it's Magua next. Afterwords we can compare KK/Fonz/whoever else but do not waver from the sacred purpose.

Page top so you kids don't forget.

[BBmolla]

Anyone else think this means Mafia probably don't have daytalk or am I just overthinking things

[hitogoroshi]

With Magua/Ajax team yeah I'm not seeing daytalk. Ajax would have just offered the shit claim for Magua to kill for townpoints and then died peacefully and lazily. But he clearly thought the claim might save him. Magua of course knew it was terrible and jumped on it anyway, but I don't think it's what Ajax was expecting.

[Quilford]

Quil, if Ajax is scum (and how could he not be, at this point) it's Magua next. Afterwords we can compare KK/Fonz/whoever else but do not waver from the sacred purpose.

Page top so you kids don't forget.

Yeah Magua's pretty bad too, I don't like how he found you scummy upon replacing in (you are exactly the person I thought scum replacing in would attack) and I don't like how he jumped to mod meta instead of commonsense to find a flaw in Captain's claim.

But Fonz is worse or just as bad.

[Lost Butterfly]

Day 1, Votecount 13

Captain Ajax (6) - hitogoroshi, Quilford, DeasVail, BBMolla, T-Bone, MagnaofIllusion

theamatuer (3) - Kublai Khan, The Fonz, Captain Ajax
Magua (1) - xRECKONERx
BBmolla (2) - theamatuer, Zar

Not voting

(1) : Magua

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or no-lynch.

Deadline:

21st of May at 11:50pm (EDT)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-05-21 23:50:00)

Countdown to the end of First Half Judging

: Deadline passed

[Quilford]

Someone better hammer while Faraday/Mina is still online. (God I hope there's flavour.)

[DeasVail]

I wish I could.

[BBmolla]

Why the hell didn't Mascumma hammer

[hitogoroshi]

Quil, if Ajax is scum (and how could he not be, at this point) it's Magua next. Afterwords we can compare KK/Fonz/whoever else but do not waver from the sacred purpose.

Page top so you kids don't forget.

Yeah Magua's pretty bad too, I don't like how he found you scummy upon replacing in (you are exactly the person I thought scum replacing in would attack) and I don't like how he jumped to mod meta instead of commonsense to find a flaw in Captain's claim.

But Fonz is worse or just as bad.

Quil. Trust me on this one. Fonz is not worse or just as bad.

If Captain Ajax flips scum, we are lynching Magua.

If I die and I see a fonz wagon tomorrow instead of a Magua wagon, I will be incredibly cross.

[BBmolla]

This game seems way too damned easy.

[Quilford]

Quil, if Ajax is scum (and how could he not be, at this point) it's Magua next. Afterwords we can compare KK/Fonz/whoever else but do not waver from the sacred purpose.

Page top so you kids don't forget.

Yeah Magua's pretty bad too, I don't like how he found you scummy upon replacing in (you are exactly the person I thought scum replacing in would attack) and I don't like how he jumped to mod meta instead of commonsense to find a flaw in Captain's claim.

But Fonz is worse or just as bad.

Quil. Trust me on this one. Fonz is not worse or just as bad.

If Captain Ajax flips scum, we are lynching Magua.

If I die and I see a fonz wagon tomorrow instead of a Magua wagon, I will be incredibly cross.

But but but the wallpost!

the wallpost

[DeasVail]

His suspicion of me is really bad too. I'll get around to explaining why (if it's even needed).

[DeasVail]

Actually, he has used a reason to suspect me that works with Ajax-scum

as well

as Ajax-town...

[Quilford]

And most of his posts are meta, theory, or shit.

[DeasVail]

About Fonz suspecting me:

So he's saying that I'm on the Ajax wagon without having put effort into convincing everyone else to join his wagon and not having the emotional energy either. The problem is that I don't see how I would expected to say a whole lot more than I have. Obviously, I agreed with what people had to say about Ajax, didn't feel the need to put much effort into convincing people to lynch considering a lack of confidence in my read/size of the wagon/early part of the day, and people such as Quil and MoI were saying quite a bit and unless I actually did say something, I didn't have anything else I felt the need to add.

Saying that those posts feel off is kind of townish I guess, but I don't understand it.

Additionally, his answer to my question is not an honest answer, because I know that if he is town (and even if scum) he would not have preferred that I pushed more on Ajax. Instead, he gives the thought out, reasonable answer that scum would give.

And lastly, scum try to get me mislynched almost every single game and The Fonz is the only one that has really expressed suspicion of me, so...

[Zar]

I will be around in a few hours (about 4), but Rule III 1 makes Ajax's claim a most likely lie.

[The Fonz]

His suspicion of me is really bad too. I'll get around to explaining why (if it's even needed).

I'll save you the time. Five letters, begins with O.

Oh and here are my reads.

The Fonz is super scum. His latest wallpost is filled with terrible, and it hits you from the first quote stripe. Look at that terrible extrapolation of BBmolla's words. Following that you have some unexplained reads coming from players posts (note him turning up the 'stream of consciousness' to justify a lack of explanation), afterwards you get a nice slice of quote pie with some IIoA on top, more unexplained reads and some mafia theory to round it off.

There's no IIoA there at all. (Also, I'd hardly say the length of that post is a wall. WTF has happened to people's attention span?) That you talk about a post of basically pure scumhunting (minus the bit where I, y'know, answer a direct question) this way causes me to want to break stuff. Incidentally, compare this post to any re-read/replacement/late entry post I've ever made. You're basically calling me scum for the way in which I express my scumhunting thoughts, and I'm not going to stand for it.

But anyway, I'm sure there's going to be plenty more of this day two, given that y'all were completely right on Ajax. 'May be awarded by the town' is not at all ambiguous. Anything else anyone desperately needs to say before the hammer?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yes on phone give me one hour to get to my computer.

[The Fonz]

Magna, if it's 'Fonz is scum' I think we can wait until tomorrow (you and Quilford almost assuredly aren't both going to die, barring the world's dumbest vig).

[MagnaofIllusion]

Fonz shockingly every thing I post is not about you.

[The Fonz]

Fonz shockingly every thing I post is not about you.

Just checking. Also, got any good crow recipes? Because you are going to be reminding me about this forever. Well, unless you're scum.

[Quilford]

Oh and here are my reads.

The Fonz is super scum. His latest wallpost is filled with terrible, and it hits you from the first quote stripe. Look at that terrible extrapolation of BBmolla's words. Following that you have some unexplained reads coming from players posts (note him turning up the 'stream of consciousness' to justify a lack of explanation), afterwards you get a nice slice of quote pie with some IIoA on top, more unexplained reads and some mafia theory to round it off.

There's no IIoA there at all. (Also, I'd hardly say the length of that post is a wall. WTF has happened to people's attention span?) That you talk about a post of basically pure scumhunting (minus the bit where I, y'know, answer a direct question) this way causes me to want to break stuff. Incidentally, compare this post to any re-read/replacement/late entry post I've ever made. You're basically calling me scum for the way in which I express my scumhunting thoughts, and I'm not going to stand for it.

But anyway, I'm sure there's going to be plenty more of this day two, given that y'all were completely right on Ajax. 'May be awarded by the town' is not at all ambiguous. Anything else anyone desperately needs to say before the hammer?

There is, but you've cleverly disguised it in the form of looking like you're stating an opinion ('BBMolla votes Ajax at the end of a wall, very little of which actually talks about Ajax.', So, T-Bone returns in #242 and his top suspects just so happen to be the two with the biggest wagons?') OR you give a five word shitty read immediately after, which does not count as analysis ('Hito calling both of the best-known players in the game town within a couple of pages without explaining. That's questionable.', 'Reck changes his mind and does a mea culpa, that's kind of a town sign.') and so on.

You're not going to stand for it. Boo-hoo. That is not pure scumhunting at all, that is 'someone did this, this is how I feel about it in 5 words'. Try again.

What do attention spans have to do with walls.

No. Hammer immediately.

[Quilford]

Fonz shockingly every thing I post is not about you.

:P

Just checking. Also, got any good crow recipes? Because

you are going to be reminding me

about this forever. Well, unless you're scum.

Oh dear. Someone's not in the right mindset, are they now?

[MagnaofIllusion]

First thing is first - Ajax is now clearly scum and I’m surprised it took that horrible claim to get some people to agree with it.

Once he flips scum the odds that TheAm is scum WITH him is minimal. By the time the TheAm wagon got built Ajax was obv-scum and just coasting on time due to the judging process. So he wasn’t going to get any Town cred from bussing TheAm. So again – an Ajax Scum flip means TheAm is likely Town and should not be poked til endgame if at all.

Quilford, Hito, and Reck are also obv-Town. Anyone going at them will cause my ghost to rise up from the grave and wreck terrible vengeance upon them. BB also is a pretty strong Town read for me. Deas is sorta there but has not quite yet made the leap. PoE is looking very good for Town with an Ajax flip.

As a reminder the following players were on the counterwagon to Ajax –

KK, TheFonz, Ajax, and Magua

You can absolutely put it in the bank that at least two scum were on that wagon trying to save Ajax. Perhaps three but that I’m not sure if am willing to fully commit to that possibility yet.

Right now my personal reads about scum possibilities from there (aside from claimed scum Ajax) are in decending order

Magua > KK > TheFonz

Magua and KK are rather close and there is some current distance between Fonz and the others.

GreyICE on the other hand wrote a large (and this is coming from me so you know what size I am talking about) post in the QT basically saying that Post 212 was a complete wall of nothing, giving reasons, and ending with “Fonz needs to die”.

I will be gathering LLD and Llama’s thoughts on the Wagon o Doom and if I survive Night will give them in the AM.

This pretty much shows that KK is not 'too busy' for the game but is just avoiding it. Which is what I would expect for scum who has parked his vote on a counter-wagon and doesn't want to make a bad move in justifying his read on his buddy.

--

One of the reasons why I don’t think Fonz is as likely partners with Ajax is the following –

I'm almost sure that one of the scummie options is going to be Paragon, and that it's going to be some kind of investigative ability. The judges for that group will be effectively outing themselves as not-cop if they declare.

I've already got a Scummie. And I don't mean the "Best Town Performance Scummie" (and definitely not the "Best Mafia Performance Scummie"). I have the "Paragon of Mafia Hunters Scummie". I'm a cop. (And a horrible one, apparently.)

I find it very unlikely that Fonz as scum with Ajax would have dropped this suggestion WAY back on page 2 if it was going to be later used as the base for a fake-claim by scum under-fire. Even without Daytalk scum did have pre-game to work out these sorts of things.

--

Magua’s Post 311 and Post 315 are terrible as already noted as Magua reverts immediately to ‘Mod Meta’ as opposed to the clear and obvious contradiction to the claim given in the rules. It speaks to a manufactured reaction rather than an honest one … he had a back pocket “Ahah that’s a horrible claim” reaction ready to spring.

Futhermore his point about Faraday and Mina not using Cops is factually incorrect –

From Faraday and Mina games (or games they were Co-Mods with each other or another person) –

Storm of Swords had a Lannister (Town) aligned Rolename Cop which in a game where the Stark were known to be scum is the equivalent of a normal Cop.

Clash of Kings had an Innocent aligned NameCop, which like SoS is the equivalent of a normal cop in a game with clear scum factions.

Feast of Crows had a role in the randomized set-up that fell to Pine that was RoleCop times 2 and Cop times 1.

Mafiascum Camp has my role as DGB Fanboy which was a 1 shot Modified Cop (I got to choose two players and determine if they were Town or scum aligned and would get results indicating if both were as I tested or not).

So clearly Faraday and Mina have used roles that are effectively Cops (if not straight Cop if simply for the theme involved). Magua’s research clearly was clearly not accurate. Hell he even provided a Mafiascum Camp link in 315.

Magua’s play screams buddy. He replaced in and called Ajax Town while going out of his way to not argue that I (and others) were wrong. Town-Magua strongly believes in his Town reads. I know this from hydrating with him. It’s one of the reasons we chose to do so … he generates strong Town reads and I generate strong scum reads and we mix them together to destroy scum. The fact that he professed as Ajax is Town read and then backtracked to “I’m not saying he’s not scum, I just think TheAm is more scummy” does not fit with the play of Magua Town.

@Magua

– Sorry to say buddy but I’m going to have to grind you up tomorrow given how scummy your play has been. Wish we could have for once drawn the same side in a game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Now with that said -

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