TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.21

Amrun (3) - Johhog, Captain Haddock, Regfan
Cogito Ergo Sum (3) - Benmage, Thestatusquo, Llamarble
Thestatusquo (3) - singersigner, Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez
Captain Haddock (2) - Amrun, Bub Bidderskins
Johhog (1) - SocioPath

Not Voting (1) - Matias

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 21, 2012, at 12:00 AM EDT (UTC-4).

[Matias]

Vote: Johhog

You're doing a ton of things that I don't like.

Not only are you crusading against TSQ for a stupid reason, you're backing off on a "null-scummy read" in order to pander to everyone. This is ridiculous and you're trying to backtrack.

[Matias]

Reg, I don't buy that Johhog is town this game. If the ONLY reason why Johhog is town is because of his preference for non-scum, that isn't enough.

[Johhog]

He never claimed to be contributing when he wasn't. What?

#481 and #484.

Vote: Johhog

You're doing a ton of things that I don't like.

Not only are you crusading against TSQ for a stupid reason, you're backing off on a "null-scummy read" in order to pander to everyone. This is ridiculous and you're trying to backtrack.

I'm not backtracking off anything, I've never in this game been suspicious of TSQ until now (read my ISO). And did you seriously just say that I should vote my null-scum read TSQ instead of my scum read Amrun?

[Matias]

No, I'm saying that you're full speed ahead on pinning things to TSQ that he's never done, but giving him the "benefit of the doubt" by saying that he's null in order to maintain a neutral stance on his wagon, which is a hot topic. It doesn't sit well with me, almost as if you're setting up an out to get onto his wagon should it grow. I don't like it.

[Johhog]

Oh, is that really the catch? Because you're right, I might very well jump on his wagon if I can't get my scum reads lynched. What's the problem with that?

[Bub Bidderskins]

But he is posting content, and the fact that you are suspicious of him

now

that he has posted content more than before when he wasn't is either stupid or scummy or both. To say that TSQ isn't posting content now is disingenuous and reeks of scum trying to preserve what once was an easy wagon.

unvote; vote: Johhog

[Johhog]

I'm still not saying that he doesn't post content. C'mon now, I'm getting a little tired of this.

[Matias]

Oh, is that really the catch? Because you're right, I might very well jump on his wagon if I can't get my scum reads lynched. What's the problem with that?

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm.

[Johhog]

I assure you it isn't. Believe me, in an utopia I would always get my top scum reads lynched but that's unfortunately not the reality. If I have to decide between lynching TSQ and say, CES, I'd choose TSQ any day.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yeah, Johhog is still town.

(I'm focusing on positives here.)

[Bub Bidderskins]

I assure you it isn't. Believe me, in an utopia I would always get my top scum reads lynched but that's unfortunately not the reality. If I have to decide between lynching TSQ and say, CES, I'd choose TSQ any day.

Vote Count 1.21

Amrun (3) -

Johhog

, Captain Haddock, Regfan
Cogito Ergo Sum (3) - Benmage, Thestatusquo, Llamarble

Thestatusquo (3) - singersigner, Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez

Captain Haddock (2) - Amrun, Bub Bidderskins
Johhog (1) - SocioPath

Not Voting (1) - Matias

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 21, 2012, at 12:00 AM EDT (UTC-4).

Permission to call bullshit, sir?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Try reading things, Bud.

[Matias]

To be fair, CES was an example, but it doesn't ring any less bullshit bells when it comes to his reasons on setting up his out on the TSQ wagon.

I want Johhog hung.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Try reading things, Bud.

Man, you're right .

Johhog spent so much time making up bullshit arguments for his null-scum read that I didn't even realize that his actual scumread was Amrun, who he was busy putting exactly zero pressure on. My bad!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I want Johhog hung.

You should sheep The Fonz.

[singersigner]

Gawdfuckingdamnit.

I'm doing the additions of thoughts to my previous post of quotes as we speak.

Shea's still scumscumscum. Notice how he came back to the game RIGHT as another wagon took off. Convenient. Also, his vote on CES is and he's only reading Amrun as town to discourage her from hoping on his wagon.

In the words of Team Skittles: KILL IT, KILL IT WITH FIRE.

[Matias]

Yeah, singer, it's funny how that conveniently came after his third fucking prod.

[Matias]

I seriously don't get the connection of TSQ's lurking to some ulterior motive, like wagons or whatever. I don't like this wagon pushing and I don't like the multiple people skirting around his lurking being "scummy"

Johhog is the worst ever and I wish everyone can see that

[Thestatusquo]

I think the continued attacks on me are laughable. The case on me was that I was lurking. By necessity this is true because I had done nothing else this game. Attempting to continue to attack me after I stopped is, frankly, idiotic, opportunistic, or both.

Claiming that I haven't posted content? That's clearly not true, and frankly, other than her crusade against me, singer really hasn't posted much more content then I have. Its pretty fucking easy to just sit here and do nothing but attack the person who isn't here to defend themselves. Whats the matter, singer, upset that youre losing your easy no strings attached day one lynch?

the claim that somehow I came back at an opportunistic moment is equally bullshit. I was still the number two bandwagon, and considering the fact that I have taken a large amount of flak, with some even saying theyre more willing to vote me now, what possible advantage do you think I've gained,b if I were scum. Serious question. Are you seriously claiming I expected singer and ces to just drop it if I waited until there was another bandwagon? I know yall way better than to think that.

Occams razor says the right explanation is the simplest. That I have had real life issues that have prevented me from giving this game full attention. Hell, look at all my recent site activity from the chess tournament, to the end of whether mafia. I, furthermore do not have any history of lurking day one as scum strategically, and I have even posted many times in md that I pretty much can't stand that strategy. This shit is verifiable, guys.

Attempting to invent reasons why my lurking is more likely to come from scum than town are not persuasive, because its not.

[Thestatusquo]

Basically it boils down to this. Since I am no longer lurking, in order to use it for a reason to vote me, you have to show why you think it is more likely to come from scum shea than town shea. If you plan on doing this, I would like you to provide ONE example of me lurking day one as scum strategically. One. Hell, if you can do that, then maybe I'd be willing to do more than dismiss the continued votes on me as opportunism. Because I'm sure it doesn't exist. Furthermore, you would have to tell me why you think doing what I did as scum puts me at an advantageous position, because frankly, what I'm doing right now, is having a hell of a lot of pressure and having to do a hell of a lot of arguing to convince people that something is a null tell. If you can argue with a straight face that this is the type of position that a scum player attempts to put themselves in, then I don't even know what to tell you.

[singersigner]

Bolding my responses.

I have something else I want to say about it that makes me possibly doubt my own conclusion, but my team and I are checking if I'm allowed to say it.

I want to hear this if you're able.

Also let me know what you think of Benmage, he's not being mentioned much, but he's bothering me a lot.

Well I'll just say I've played in several games with Benmage and his play in this game just feels wrong on just about every level.

I played with Benmage in Weather Mafia II (I *think* that's the only experience I've had with him) and he seemed to be just as loud and obnoxious as he is/has been here. Can you be more specific as to what feel "wrong"?

Wait, are people voting TSQ? That's stupid considering all the scum in this game that are actually posting.

Are you saying you're expecting scum to be among the most active players? If so, why is that?

No, I'm saying there are scum among the players that are actually posting, so its stupid to attack people who won't respond to you when there are scummier people who will.

I'm taking this as a very blatant defense of those being pressured for lurking. I think it's foolish to ignore the obvious need to for EVERYONE to participate in this game.

I might have something to say about 354 once a certain ongoing game ends.

I'm keeping this noted because I'm very curious what you might have to say.

I meant that DGB and I were the only ones (to my recollection) that still thought he was scum AFTER the tracker thing. But it's not important. I don't remember all the details.

Why bring up a point that's meant to support your argument and then dismiss it as unimportant because you "don't remember all the details"?

Well, you obviously didn't get the implication I was going for. And I do believe consistency is normally a scum tell, yes. So what do you conclude from that?

What was the implication you were going for?

UNVOTE: Benmage
VOTE: Amrun

Why?

So, sad news: I can't share why I now suspect TSQ. I don't know if I'm willing to stake his whole alignment on what I wanted to share but cannot, but it does make me lean scum on him.

I'm really disappointed there isn't at least something you can share that would allow us to know what you're thinking. I can't think of many things you wouldn't be able to share and most I can think of shouldn't be affecting your decision much anyway.

I'm in basically the same situation on Johhog.

I'd pay to know what this is, it's pretty hard to defend yourself otherwise.

But I'll tell you one thing; if you suspect me for out of game reasons (lex Regfan) I'll be fucking mad post-game.

This is so scummy it hurts. "I don't know why you think I'm scum but I'll be pissed if you got lucky because of something that doesn't have to do with this game.

But there is a good point in there about Matias somewhere? If so, I'd like you to point it out, because I dont' see it.

I think what he means is that at this point, most onlookers to the Me vs. Haddock feud would narrow it down to town vs. scum. He just believes that Haddock is the town one. I think that's based on the fact that I told Haddock to search my replies to his case, because I'm not writing them down again.

I'd seriously rather NOT hear answers to questions specifically directed at one person, from someone else. You really need to not to that.

Reg: I think Benmage was 100% meta on that flip. I was scum with him during a game before, and he knows I take the convoluted route as town (I have a crazy thought process and will throw myself into blah blah blah blah, you know this, as town. However, I'm more reserved and calculated as scum)

He just recognized this meta with DemonHybrid, not Matias.

Again, seriously need you to stop answering for people. There's a reason people direct their questions to individuals in particular.

Llarmanle, Amrun isn't making up that thing about TSQ. I noticed something the same thing she did too.

I can't work out your Johhog-thing but I did go and do a meta-check through all a bunch of his games. Didn't read them in detail and only came across one scum game of his but his play here and the 'changing votes without explanation' is something he seems to tend to do as town which is mostly what I wanted to look to see if it was the case or not. I did come across this and this post of his here he states he much strongly prefers town roles, though he was scum in that game. Looked a little further and found him saying essentially the same thing in this game so I'm nowhere near as comfortable lynching him anymore.

Amrun, why have you barely talked about me since your 19th post out of 63? And why haven't you called anyone scum since then? VOTE: Amrun

This was something I noticed and have been waiting for a response from my team-mates for a while but they all seem to have gone AWOL.

Unvote, Vote: Amrun

I honestly wish I knew why I pointed this out...

I asked them about TSQ but didn't get an answer quite yet. I have no clue what to make of his obvlurking. I don't even know if it's even inherently scummy.

My reads are a jumble after Haddock's last post

Do you think anything else about his play is scummy?

[singersigner]

What is there to answer? Those are stupid side snipes that mean nothing.

The 'snipes' don't mean nothing and had he not asked you 'who' you were referring to when you said 5 or so other players have done the same thing as you regarding being very active but not stating scum reads I would have asked it. I do want it answered.

I do think that ces making a comment like "shea lurks as scum." is something to look at because frankly, I think it's incredibly untrue, so I don't understand what basis he would have for such a claim unless he was inventing a case out of whole cloth to push on me.

Okay, I get it he stated that you lurk as scum and you don't think you do. That means very little to me, you don't have to post an entire reads list from town-> scum (Though I do think everyone doing so is actually optimal play but that's something for MD not here) but I do want to see a fuckload more content and reads from you.

Also I've narrowed down the pool of people I think are possibly scum to [Amrun, TSQ, Zach, Socio, Llarmable].

How can you possibly narrow down to just 5 possible subjects in 20 pages? You either are the most fantastic scum hunter that ever lived, or you are willfully blinding yourself to other possibilities. I understand the sentiment of, say "I am willing to lynch any of these X people today because I find them the most suspicious." but that's not the way you parsed it, and furthermore, your "list of people who could possibly be scum." seems to oddly parallel those that have been found suspicious of others.


Tell me this, if you have concluded that the people who are possibly scum are in that list of 5 people, then what caused you to discount the other 7 people? Why can't they be scum?

This is the only post in your ISO that DOESN'T have to do with you (minus one calling Amrun town?). Why is defending yourself the only important thing, when, as you say, you're not even "up on the chopping block" as far as you're concerned. If you don't think you're going to be lynched, then why is most of your attention on yourself?

See, the problem is no long that you're lurking, but that you're not contributing while insisting that you are, only concerned with yourself while claiming that you're posting "content," and repeating the same arguments...probably to make it look like you're posting more content than you are.

I'd really like you to address the questions that have been posed to you thus far, Shea, because I see you decided they were worth skipping.

[singersigner]

Reading up on the last four pages. I'm beginning to think Johhog's pretty damn scummy, too.

[Thestatusquo]

I've made three pretty definitive stances, so far. I think thats pretty good for now 2 days of activity. I'm not saying I've climbed out of the hole yet, but I think saying I'm not contributing and focusing only on myself is more than a little unfair. You missed the post where I declared amrun town, and the post where I attacked ces (in fact, a couple of them)

My problem is that you seem to have transfered from "He's lurking lynch lynch lynch." to "He lurked and he's not going to contribute! Lynch lynch lynch." when a its not true and b you're not giving much of a chance to do so. In fact, I would say that it is fairly disengenous to attack me and then attack me for defending myself against your attacks. Like, what would you do if I ignored your attacks against me? Attack me for that, is the answer. Don't try to convince me that it isn't.