Open 399: Faith Plus 1 (Day Seven)

[Kassadin]

u r dumb already

[MattP]

You are a joy to have around, Kass, you are a breath of fresh air from the cynical lives we all lead.

[vijay2vasandani]

Why do you think I don't want him lynched unless we know he's scum? XD

[Kassadin]

go ahead

[kondi2424]

You're good at buddying townies, what can I say.

Also, I wanted to see your reaction. Seems it's not Om. Trollie, you, and Venmar then?

In the case of shotgun, it was him that caused most of the suspicion (i.e. a scumslip).

[kondi2424]

Also, shotgun: you are either investigating me or Trollie tonight. No exceptions.

[Darkling_Perhaps]

Aaaahhhh, this game moves so fast.

First off, I totally called that you were the liar, vijay. Good work, regardless, I'd never think the chance you took would pay off.

And we already caught scum? Geez, that was quick.

So...
OmNom
BK
Kondi
Trollie
MattP
Kass

Neat, 1/3rd chance of hitting scum tomorrow.

Letsee. I'm going to try to map out some interactions, since we have a more limited number of players... After I wake up. I don't think I'll beat out the mod but at least I can try.

Just my gut reaction on scum would be Venmar with... either MattP/Kondi or maybe BK/Kass. Nothing substantial though. I'm not really feeling Trollie as scum right now, rereading. Ugh, this game is crazy, 55 pages?!?

[Om of the Nom]

So here are all the comments between Trollie and Venmar. I'll expand on why I quoted them in my next post, just wanna get this out here right now.

It basically can prevent mislynches and greatly hinders the mafia by making their vote less powerful.

yeah but at the same time it seems to me like if you think the ppl in the bloc are town, and everyone does, they wont get voted for anyway...idk still seems dumb to me...

Making a random list of most likely random people is just kind of weird to me, as some of those

could be your scum buddies.

could be your scum buddies? are you implying you know kondi (or someone else in there) is scum?

Ok, here are my quick reads:

Town

- Venmar

( Im town )

- Morton

( Hasn't given off a single mafia vibe for me. This isn't much but his play seems more townish than scummish. )

- Psyche

( Doesn't strike me as a scummy player. His absence at first seemed like lurking, but he has returned with plenty of decent and good content )

- Mattp

( He has been doing a lot of scum hunting lately and has been pressuring others greatly. Looks very townish to me. Regardless of how hard he is trying to tunnel me.. )

Neutral / Null

- DmrShotgun

( I am very null about shotgun. I can't seem to decide if his claim is legit or not. Until someone can help me decide if his claim can be trusted or not, i will stay null about him. Seeing shotgun wasn't REALLY pressured into claiming, his claim is a bit harder to believe. )

- Kassadin

( Very unreadable for me. I can lean town but he hasn't been posting enough nor giving much content in his posts. This makes him hard to read for ME. So i am neutral with Kass. )

- Om Nom

( Seems very energetic with his posting. Not sure if this is a hyper mafia or just a energetic personality. Semi-tunneling into Dark also seems kind of weary. But none of this really makes me suspicious enough of him to list him as mafia. So i am null here.. )

- Vijay

( Seems to be trying to scum hunt some people. Though i don't agree with some things, his posts are generally well spirited and fairly pro-town. However i am not sure if i can list him as a Townie just yet, nor mafia. )

Possible Mafia or Scum

- Darkling

( His post about saying lurkers are scummy so early in the game just set off plenty of alarms in my head. Compared with my post about Psyche, his is much worse. I only tried to pressure Psyche into talking, Dark outright said he was scummy for lurking. )

- BK-201

( I cant decide, but he seems to ignore or forget about questions aimed at him and it kind of makes him look like a scum trying to avoid further suspicion. I cant really say though, but out of all others BK seems to be more scummier than those below and most of the above. Further more, his justification for why Kondi could be a bad town is very insulting. I don't think current behavior should be based off of play records. Its easy for others to say your a bad town simply for not playing the game before. Im calling you out scummy just for that. However, in my previous off site game BK played somewhat well as a cop, but from my experience BK does not lie unless he is scum. For the time being, sticking with a possible scum read. )

Limbo ( Not sure if Mafia or Townie )

- Kondi

( You know, i am leaning scum just for the bloc at the beginning of the game, but at the same time i kind of believe him that it could have been a bait trying to arouse reactions from others. His further activity in this game has been promising, so i doubt he is mafia because making that bloc would have been a fairly dumb mafia move. Seeing as Kondi doesn't strike me as a bad player, i doubt that it was scum mistake. )

- Trollie

( His large disapproval of the Voting Bloc is very edgy for me. I think he could be a scum trying to prevent us townies from forming a bloc, which could actually help us get scum. Naturally, i feel like mafia members would try and prevent blocs to stop the town from organizing themselves to beat the mafia. Then again his suspicions for a bloc seem somewhat solid, as mafia members sneaking into blocs is always a possibility. I have a very un decided opinion on Trollie. )

- Chrimi

( In post 480, he exactly quotes " Neither of you claim,

we don't want scum knowing who another of my faith healer is

." Tell me what you guys think of what he said here. He could be saying he is a faith healer or just talking to the town in general. Him asking for the faith healer(s) is kind of a scum move in my opinion, as at this point the faith healers definitely should not claim ANYTHING regarding their role. This, coupled with my weird gut feeling on Chrimi and what others have said, i cannot decide if he is Town or Maf. )

Well there's my reads on people. Nothing is set in stone, and i am more than happy to answer any questions aimed at me.

To explain about shotty: You say he changed his story about the voting block. I see it as he revealed information. At first before he knew it was fake he said it would help town. After he found out it was fake he said he assumed it was made to help town by lynching kass. I don't see any conflicting information there.

thank you. this is the first time anyone has given an alternate reason for his behavior...

not sure if shot is telling the truth but seems likely…not worth killing the cop if he is so I’ll drop it for now (idk his play style, but role claiming at this point seems pretty silly. I know he apologized, but, for people who have played with him before: is that role claim out of character?)

Reads

Town:

Om

Vij

MattP

leaning town

Kondi

– I see a lot of scumhunting, he’s been going after multiple people and has follow-up questions to a lot of people’s interactions.

Kass

– I don’t know anthing about him, but you guys have made good points for why he’s probably town in this game due to the way he is posting compared to how he usually posts.

Null

Shot

– claim of dr. moves him to null. I still don’t like how aggressive he was against me when he wasn’t doing anything to answer my questions about him.

Psyche

Dark

Venmar

– his posts are very wishy washy but at the same time he is generally encouraging scum-hunting. I just wish he encouraged it less and did it more. Also his response to Matt’s attack is very weird—he thinks matt is talking about psyche. He’s probably fine but I want to keep watching him.

leaning scum

Morton

– bad vibe…he attacks me for not scum hunting based on a post that was clearly me being a smart-ass
Chrimi – the role fishing was scummy, but he was trying to deal with a pretty tough situation (finding a way to save our potential cop) so I’m not ready to pull the trigger on this yet.

Scum

BK

– spends a lot of the game trying to get us off the scumhunting path and onto Kass. After claiming he will replace out if we do not lynch kass he changes his vote to shot because of a scumslip. He is very much against anyone else voting for someone other than kass if they feel someone is scummy, however.


On another note I am sorry for flipping you off Om, that was wrong of me. However, I was trying, in my own ass-holish way, to get you and others to focus more on THIS game and less on the out-of-game discussion. Didn’t mean to piss you off.

^ Shot claimed cop.. not dr. Are you actually reading the thread or is this a mistake?

Could you possible explain why you think Dark is null, and why is Om town?

Shot – claim of dr. moves him to null. I still don’t like how aggressive he was against me when he wasn’t doing anything to answer my questions about him.

Sorry..didn’t mean to make that confusing..i meant claim of dr (drmyshot) not claim of dr (doctor role)

Will post my reasons on dark and om when I get a chance. Likely later tonight unless I decide to procrastinate more before then.

@Trollie

You have the time to read over the whole thread to make a vote count but not to explain your reads on Om and Dark?

@venmar: can you explain your change of hart on kondi?

agh...now i dont know what to do. I don't like what I'm seeing from either of these guys:

@Trollie's case: Notice that vijay ALSO mentioned the FH's CCing in his post. That's why I unvoted, not because Kassadin could be investigated.

this is a non-answer. it gets rid of one of the three position swaps at the very best. worse though, is that i find it to be

yet another

instance of backtracking. you did not mean FH CCing when you unvoted.

By the way, MattP townslipped.

Hmmmm.. XD just kidding.

1 for 1 is always good imo, even if we lose our cop. But seriously, this claiming. *sigh* might as well say it, I'm a Faith Healer as well.

All other FHs should claim now.

We aren't PLing today guys. Let shotgun sort that out for us. Once Kass is conftown/scum we can let scum nightkill him or we can lynch him.

Good call, vijay. UNVOTE:

only valid interp is that you are saying good point on the kass thing. (a) why would u be saying "good call" to the line "all other FHs should claim now." (b) you go from that directly into unvoting so it stands to reason that you are talking about his point on kass

now you are backtracking again saying that you never changed your mind because you wanted to wait for shot to investigate. That is not in line with what i see here.

@kondi: also, you didn't answer: what made your read on me change?

but, at the same time:

I had a unsure read. I can't call him town nor mafia because i am unsure!! How hard is this to understand..

(a) "I had an unsure read" -- re-read the posts matt quoted. you called kondi "clearly not scum," and "leaning scum" that is not an unsure read.
(b) you did call him town AND mafia so i dont get why your response is you can't call him town nor mafia
(c) very defensive -- "how hard is this to understand"

eh...now i dont know which to pick...

how many votes is that on ven?

i'm pretty convinced by all of this "turtle" nonsense

UNVOTE: kondi
VOTE: venmar

no one else thinks venmar's BK comment deserves discussion?

[Om of the Nom]

Alright, so this is why I think they are scum together. First of all, they rarely mention each other, which strikes me as them trying not to be tied together in case one of them flips scum.

Making a random list of most likely random people is just kind of weird to me, as some of those

could be your scum buddies.

could be your scum buddies? are you implying you know kondi (or someone else in there) is scum?

This is a really weak attack from Trollie, it looks like a weak bus to me. Also the mention of kondi specifically instead of someone else leads me to think he's also the other scumbuddy.

Ok, here are my quick reads:

- Trollie

( His large disapproval of the Voting Bloc is very edgy for me. I think he could be a scum trying to prevent us townies from forming a bloc, which could actually help us get scum. Naturally, i feel like mafia members would try and prevent blocs to stop the town from organizing themselves to beat the mafia. Then again his suspicions for a bloc seem somewhat solid, as mafia members sneaking into blocs is always a possibility. I have a very un decided opinion on Trollie. )

Notice how in his reads he leaves Trollie as a null read? I think this is because he doesn't want to have a strong opinion on his buddy in case he flips scum. He can't hard defend or it will look bad, and he can't tunnel a lot, otherwise it will also look bad. Also the only reason he has for putting him as null is based on the voting block discussion which happened like 200-400 posts before this one.

Reads

Null

Venmar

– his posts are very wishy washy but at the same time he is generally encouraging scum-hunting. I just wish he encouraged it less and did it more. Also his response to Matt’s attack is very weird—he thinks matt is talking about psyche. He’s probably fine but I want to keep watching him.

Notice how Trollie also lists Venmar as a null read? This was filled with weak attacks and waffles. He brings up some reasonably decent points against Venmar but never pursues them and doesn't try to find out more.

More coming.

[Om of the Nom]

^ Shot claimed cop.. not dr. Are you actually reading the thread or is this a mistake?

Could you possible explain why you think Dark is null, and why is Om town?

Shot – claim of dr. moves him to null. I still don’t like how aggressive he was against me when he wasn’t doing anything to answer my questions about him.

Sorry..didn’t mean to make that confusing..i meant claim of dr (drmyshot) not claim of dr (doctor role)

Will post my reasons on dark and om when I get a chance. Likely later tonight unless I decide to procrastinate more before then.

Here he just asks Venmar a few questions, nothing too informative and nothing too damning. I think he's trying to test the waters here. Also he never addresses his concerns with Venmar from his reads list.

but, at the same time:

I had a unsure read. I can't call him town nor mafia because i am unsure!! How hard is this to understand..

(a) "I had an unsure read" -- re-read the posts matt quoted. you called kondi "clearly not scum," and "leaning scum" that is not an unsure read.
(b) you did call him town AND mafia so i dont get why your response is you can't call him town nor mafia
(c) very defensive -- "how hard is this to understand"

eh...now i dont know which to pick...

Yet another weak bussing attack on Venmar. No pursuing of this afterwards, no questions to get more information. Nothing at all.

how many votes is that on ven?

Hey look, suddenly he's concerned with the wagon on Ven. I think he's worried that Ven will get lynched.

i'm pretty convinced by all of this "turtle" nonsense

UNVOTE: kondi
VOTE: venmar

The most blatant wagon jump ever. This just reeks of bussing. No real reason to jump on his wagon, no case to go with it, nothing but a bad "reason" and a vote.

no one else thinks venmar's BK comment deserves discussion?

Again with the random suspicion. The closest thing he had before this in relation to thinking Ven-scum was the vote on him and a few bussing attacks.

[Om of the Nom]

tl;dr
Ven and Trollie are scumbuddies together because:
~They rarely mention each other so they can keep the connection low.
~The only real comments between them consist of random, weak bussing attempts with no follow up for any information.
~They both kept each other as null reads originally so they could avoid having a strong opinion on each other.
~Trollie randomly started suspecting Venmar for no apparent reason, no case to go with his vote, and no strong or damning attacks or attempts to get information from Ven to try and discern his alignment.

[Om of the Nom]

See, if you wait at least one day before lynching you can get awesome people with awesome cases like this before you lynch someone.

[Om of the Nom]

Also note how the only people that Venmar references about their stance on the block when giving his reads are kondi and Trollie. I think this links them all together nicely.

[Venmar]

......
I must ask, what's poxnora? I could go and check, but I'm lazy..

Poxnora is a different type of game as mafia. Its played on a different client, and its a turn based strategy game.

Heres the website if you want to check it out : http://www.poxnora.com

Heres a link to one of the games me and BK played in. http://forums.station.sony.com/strategy ... c_id=78802
If you browse through the off topic section you should find the previous mafia games. The one currently in sign up is called Toybox Mafia.

My username in poxnora is BoneSentry, BK's username is the same.

[Venmar]

OmNom, stop speculating, i already told you that Vijay and Shotgun are my scum partners.

Lol.

[vijay2vasandani]

Careful Venmar. You can get banned for that sort of thing. I think they'll let you off because you aren't advertising another site as such, but just be careful anyway.

[Venmar]

For what?

Im shutting up anyways, got nothing else to contribute anyways.

[vijay2vasandani]

Linking another site (ie poxnora)

[Venmar]

Oh.

I am not trying to advertise it. Shotgun asked what it is so i linked him the forum where we poxers play mafia. In case you wanted to see how we play mafia over there or such.

[vijay2vasandani]

Yeah I know. But you don't want to have to explain that to anybody else etc etc. Anyway don't worry about it.

[Chrimi]

Lol, nice catch Om.

I say cop investigates Om, if he's town then we follow his suspicions? Or investigate vijay. Either way.

[TheTrollie]

The most blatant wagon jump ever. This just reeks of bussing. No real reason to jump on his wagon, no case to go with it, nothing but a bad "reason" and a vote.

I will not stand for you claiming my vote on ven wasn't justified. I was heavily involved in the ven debate that took place before the lynch and it seems to me that you are just using my newbie status to make shitloads of false arguments against me. i have a feeling you are just trying to get me riled up (which you did, but only because i take offense to this particular statement) but if you aren't and you are genuinely making a case against me, that's bullshit and i cant wait to lynch you tomorrow. Your points are horrible and scream scum trying to divert attention away from you.

[Chrimi]

EBWOP: Not Vijay, Trollie***

[kondi2424]

CRAP

Mod please delete the alt post.

[drmyshotgun]

That's a pretty looking alt you got there Kondi.
I was sort of right about Trollie. He's too scummy.
Kondi or Trollie guys.