Mini 1327: Murder in the Louvre- Day 6

[Nuwen]

ITT:

Nuwen insists that this is a flavor- and power-role game.
Nuwen completely misses that the visions say considerably more than "Yos2's role is French" and shamelessly buddies to him. (which, if I notice buddying at all, it has to be pretty shameless)
Zar pulls out completely unnecessary vote count analysis to simultaneously throw Nuwen's name out as a suspect and then conveniently ignore her in the analysis.

Yes, flavor is very much relevant to this game. There's A LOT of it and scattered amidst the fluff I believe there's important information to be gleaned. Ignoring this to suit your own agenda is either intellectually lazy or scummy. Haven't decided which yet. This game isn't interesting enough to compete with team mafia.

I'm not shamelessly buddying Yos - there's a dude voting for him AFTER THE COMPLEMENTING CLAIMS, which I also find either incredibly misguided or scummy. Running defense for Furclow wins you no points with me.

Vote count analysis isn't magic numerology. I do it when I think wagons contain important data or lack a better starting point. The casing on Hiraki after his town-motivated claim is more than enough of a jump-off for today.

Also reasonably sure that you have to have inside info to EVER read Uberninja's D1 as town in this game. No regrets at all on that one.

[Zar]

The Case on Nuwen:

Spoiler: Summary

#120 Casts a vote on Parama based on META. after a brief prod of quilford, never mentions parama since. Never explained what was the evil META used as a reason.

#129 at the moment, was not a bad vote, but now looks like Nuwen was looking for something easily justifiable to jump onto and keep parked on (this vote lasted from #129 all the way through #561, moment which Nuwen failed to use to explore anything else).

#138 - #227 - #317 is part of the quilford tunnel, a case that looks bad now that there is a town flip.

#228 the early dismissal of charter from voting Vi does not feel pro-town. It came at the moment the quilford wagon was waning.

#710, #717, #724, #968 flavor speculation

#897: Calls out the waning UN wagon, tries to keep it from stalling. (Competing wagon at the moment was Vi).
#1241: yeah, I can see how Nuwen could be partnered with Hiraki based on this post.

The flavor in Hiraki's vision claims can really only be understood in one way: Yos dropped a French medallion at the scene of Elmo's viggin', which fits with the flavor of Yos' nameclaim. Hiraki has NO incentive to reveal this information as scum. He could have stayed silent, said ANYTHING condemning about Yos.

Actually, this makes all the sense in the world for scum to do. One of the most valuable things to garner in the game is trust. Once you've established a certaind degree of credibility, players are least likely to scrutinize your actions and to try to analyze the intent behind them. A Good way for scum to do this is to somehow demonstrate an intent of helping out by sharing out results from any power roles they may have.

#1242: #1245, more flavor speculation

Worth Noting: I have noticed that Nuwen has missed out names from players a few times. Is this something Nuwen commonly does? The name crossing reads as careless, and possibly having no intent in engaging in solving the game.

VOTES BY NUWEN ON D1

Spoiler: Votes

#8 - Yosarian2
#120 - Parama
#129 - Quilford
#561 - Uberninja

Responses to Vi:

Nuwen:
*Slammed through the UberNinja case Yesterday as a policy lynch when it was for the most part pretty bloody obvious that UN was Town

Didn't Nuwen say it was Hiraki being policy lynched? Or was this another of her name confusions? Nuwen seemed determined on NijaScum to be later claiming this was a policy lynch.

*Has offered nothing involving actual hunting of scum except the minimum (see scumlist consisting of everyone except herself and three other players),

Agreeing with this. Nuwen kept her suspect pool very narrow on D1. It consisted on quilford/Elmo scum + UN (both innocent).

*preferring to keep to speculating on game flavor

Focusing solely on flavor is a good way of looking busy. Nuwen's latest renditions have been dedicated mostly to flavor discussion rather than working on narrowing her suspect pool. Considerably suspicious after looking at the result of her only two D1 suspects, since the rest of her focus was dedicated on flavor on that day as well.

*Has lurked like a boss

In regards to Nuwen's response to this:

This game isn't interesting enough to compete with team mafia.

^^ Nuwen: you should be well aware you were lurking in this game BEFORE the team Mafia games started. TM began on May 7th. Your firts post on the Louvre game was on April 14th, THREE WEEKS BEFORE. In 33 days, you have produced 36 posts, which roughly counts for about 1 post a day. Basically, you have indeed lurked like a boss all through the game. Hiraki has 1 post less than you and you've been here since the beginning of the game.

*From what I'm told, SHOULD be the one doing the vote count analysis (

especially given all those threats about tearing up the people off the UberNinja wagon

), not you

What threats?

CONCLUSION: Yeah, Nuwen is probably scum.

UNVOTE
VOTE: NUWEN

Will do Furcolow tomorrow.

[Zar]

@Mod please prod Katsuki & charter

[Furcolow]

unvote;
vote: Zar

let's do me vs. you today, bub

[Furcolow]

also Zar I'm going to go ahead and say I'm not going to be buying your fakeclaim

[shos]

unvote;
vote: Zar

let's do me vs. you today, bub

also Zar I'm going to go ahead and say I'm not going to be buying your fakeclaim

please explain?
either way you're not a lynch candidate hehe, so it's mostly Hiraki v Nuwen.

I'll respond to the case on Nuwen after he does.

[Vi]

ITT:

Nuwen insists that this is a flavor- and power-role game.
Nuwen completely misses that the visions say considerably more than "Yos2's role is French" and shamelessly buddies to him. (which, if I notice buddying at all, it has to be pretty shameless)
Zar pulls out completely unnecessary vote count analysis to simultaneously throw Nuwen's name out as a suspect and then conveniently ignore her in the analysis.

Yes, flavor is very much relevant to this game. There's A LOT of it and scattered amidst the fluff I believe there's important information to be gleaned. Ignoring this to suit your own agenda is either intellectually lazy or scummy. Haven't decided which yet. This game isn't interesting enough to compete with team mafia.

Hey. Hey Nuwen. Read my posts. I'm not ignoring flavor. I'm just not paying lip service to the rest of the game.

I'm not shamelessly buddying Yos - there's a dude voting for him AFTER THE COMPLEMENTING CLAIMS, which I also find either incredibly misguided or scummy. Running defense for Furclow wins you no points with me.

The level of derptastic in the last two pages is giving me a brain aneurysm.

Is Yos okay? Caught up and saw the post re: a bad situation IRL. Don't abandon me to the insanity wolves. Hope things are better now.

Shameless buddying is both shameless and buddying.

Vote count analysis isn't magic numerology. I do it when I think wagons contain important data or lack a better starting point. The casing on Hiraki after his town-motivated claim is more than enough of a jump-off for today.

So you're saying your much-vaulted analysis of the UberNinja wagon would have ended on Hiraki even though you didn't actually do the analysis?

Also reasonably sure that you have to have inside info to EVER read Uberninja's D1 as town in this game. No regrets at all on that one.

If UN was actually scum I would have been both impressed and terribly embarrassed. But hey, throw me some empty words saying I'm scum if you like.

---

@Zar:

*"Policy lynch" was the wrong term, in favor of "tunnel lynch" or something to that effect.
*The threats were along the lines of "I will find and thresh everyone who is not already on the UberNinja wagon because when he flips scum I will kill the stupid and the scumpartners". UberNinja didn't flip scum, but I would expect someone who actively thought UberNinja was scum to try and analyze the wagon anyway.

---

@Furcolow: If it came down to you vs. Zar I would vote you first. Just saying.

[Nuwen]

One post/day is considered lurking, now?

Uberninja's wagon is less valuable BECAUSE he was so inherently scummy with every action and every word. I don't care that you claim to have a magical town read on him early and consistently; imo a town read on Uberninja in response to his D1 play is either inside information. Or maybe you're just better at mafia than everyone else in this game, Vi. All hail!~~

But sarcasm aside, a wagon that could have been entirely town-driven is less valuable for rote vote analysis. In fact, it's rote vote analysis that can make the behavior of "town-purging-town," something to be encouraged D1 imo, a lynch-able offense in ensuing days. Take it from someone who knows and uses VCA to squeeze on fresh information on a game: there's not much to see on Uberninja's wagon. I'm not going to invent a case I don't agree with because it fits your small paradigm of scum-must-be-asserting-wagon.

These cases are essentially questioning my reads ("too many potential scum," "

buddying

her limited town reads), calling one post/day lurking, and concluding that my open invitation to the Uberninja pool is something most likely done by scum.

~~~

I'm not saying that Hiraki's claim makes him mod-confirmed town, but I do see a much stronger town incentive than scum incentive behind claiming what and how he did. Double-plus so after Yos had a VOTE (Furclow) on him and a scum Hiraki could have done the exact opposite: kept his mouth quiet and waiting to see if a wagon formed. The assorted people voting for Hiraki haven't actually commented on this piece, but have instead resorted to calling me scum with Hiraki?

But evidently that's how mafia is played now so w/e.

[springlullaby]

Day 2 votecount 4

(0) Katsuki:

(0) kanyeknowsbest:

(0) Yosarian2:

(0) Parama :

(0) shos:

(0) Vi:

(0) Furcolow:

(3) Hiraki :

charter, Parama, shos,

(3) Nuwen :

Vi, Nuwen, Zar,

(1) charter:

Hiraki,

(1) Zar:

Furcolow,

(3) Not voting :

Yosarian2, Katsuki, kanyeknowsbest,

With 11 players, 6 votes are required to lynch.

Katsuki has been prodded.

[charter]

Now we have six votes on scum, but there isn't a lynch. I thought I already was voting for Nuwen, but

Unvote, vote Nuwen

[shos]

I'm not saying that Hiraki's claim makes him mod-confirmed town, but I do see a much stronger town incentive than scum incentive behind claiming what and how he did. Double-plus so after Yos had a VOTE (Furclow) on him and a scum Hiraki could have done the exact opposite: kept his mouth quiet and waiting to see if a wagon formed. The assorted people voting for Hiraki haven't actually commented on this piece, but have instead resorted to calling me scum with Hiraki?

furcolow's vote was so negligable that I really don't see how this helps you. moreover, there definitely is a scum incentive to do that. firstly, sharing any power-role-information you have gained with the town is townie, so doing that just might get some people to give him town points. Next, would be the fact that nobody even questioned Yos' claim, so the first two visions really don't add anything to the game. next there's the fact that you completely ignored my theory about Hiraki inventing those to appear town; what if the third one is completely made up? you didn't even consider Hiraki lying. especially after the fact that he was taking fire; so sitting back won't do anything. after my claim about the message I sent him and everything related, and him making up stuff, you really think that if he stayed silent, Yos would be the lynch instead of him? what real case has furcolow had about Yos that would make it such a viable lynch?
in other words, I think that in addition to what people have said, the fact you're either white-knighting or just protecting your buddy with really bad reasons - you're scum. The possibility that you two are buddies exists, but the opposite can just as well. you just passed him on the scumdar; when you flip scum, I'll do my reconsiderations about Hiraki.

UNVOTE: Hiraki
VOTE: NUWEN

THIS VOTE IS L-1 PEOPLE, if you have intention to hammer say it and ask for a claim, don't do it.

[shos]

And you don't think Nuwen is Hiraki's buddy? I think it's pretty obvious she is.

o look, lol @ dat

[Yosarian2]

Not a fan of this Nuwen wagon. Nuwen is defending Hiraki for reasons that seem entierly logical, are pretty strong, and are probably right. So, because she's defending someone who's probably town from getting lynched...that makes her scum?

[shos]

A) not only;
and B), the reasons are definitely NOT logical, red my post 1285 above. do you think I am wrong?

[charter]

Both Hiraki and Nuwen are scum.

[Hiraki]

Two votes in a row?

get the fuck out

[Zar]

Not a fan of this Nuwen wagon. Nuwen is defending Hiraki for reasons that seem entierly logical, are pretty strong, and are probably right. So, because she's defending someone who's probably town from getting lynched...that makes her scum?

Yosarian, what are your tiers? Who do you suspect and why?

unvote;
vote: Zar

let's do me vs. you today, bub

No. 1 vs. 1 are: pointless, distracting, and self-serving.

[Parama]

can we lynch hiraki now
nuwen is the obvious counterwagon here

[Hiraki]

Uberninja's wagon is less valuable BECAUSE he was so inherently scummy with every action and every word. I don't care that you claim to have a magical town read on him early and consistently; imo a town read on Uberninja in response to his D1 play is either inside information. Or maybe you're just better at mafia than everyone else in this game, Vi. All hail!~~

He's obv. newb town that thinks he's godly

like I used to play with him

just not so crappily

[shos]

Uberninja's wagon is less valuable BECAUSE he was so inherently scummy with every action and every word. I don't care that you claim to have a magical town read on him early and consistently; imo a town read on Uberninja in response to his D1 play is either inside information. Or maybe you're just better at mafia than everyone else in this game, Vi. All hail!~~

He's obv. newb town that thinks he's godly

like I used to play with him

just not so crappily

are you talking about UN? whom you VOTED?
or perhaps about Vi? who is apparantly the newbest evah onsite?

[Katsuki]

Barely alive right now. Haven't read game.

[Parama]

Haven't read game.

~Kats in every mafia game ever, even the ones he didn't play in

[kanyeknowsbest]

~Kats in every mafia game ever, even the ones he didn't play in

i played a game with him once wher ehe was actually read the game and was super proactive it was amazing. he got lynched for it, naturally.

[kanyeknowsbest]

vote shos

i need to check a thing.

[Vi]

But sarcasm aside, a wagon that could have been entirely town-driven is less valuable for rote vote analysis. In fact, it's rote vote analysis that can make the behavior of "town-purging-town," something to be encouraged D1 imo, a lynch-able offense in ensuing days. Take it from someone who knows and uses VCA to squeeze on fresh information on a game: there's not much to see on Uberninja's wagon. I'm not going to invent a case I don't agree with because it fits your small paradigm of scum-must-be-asserting-wagon.

"Oh wagon analysis isn't that useful because it's just as likely that scum weren't on the wagon at all"



"oh trust me I've already looked at the UN wagon and there's nothing to see"

Not a fan of this Nuwen wagon. Nuwen is defending Hiraki for reasons that seem entierly logical, are pretty strong, and are probably right. So, because she's defending someone who's probably town from getting lynched...that makes her scum?

When did anyone care about her defending Hiraki?