TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.25

Amrun (3) - Johhog, Captain Falcon, Regfan
Cogito Ergo Sum (3) - Benmage, Thestatusquo, Llamarble
Thestatusquo (3) - singersigner, Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez
Johhog (2) - SocioPath, Matias
Captain Haddock (1) - Amrun
Zachrulez (1) - Bub Bidderskins

Not Voting (0)

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 21, 2012, at 12:00 AM EDT (UTC-4).

[Bub Bidderskins]

So your solution is to start a completely new wagon four days from deadline?

My solution is to lynch scum. If this wagon doesn't pan out I'm willing to lynch CES or TSQ if I have to, even though I think Shea's town.

Actually, a few things:

1. Do you think Shea is town?

2. Does not moving his vote make Zach scum?

3. Why do you think it's the easiest wagon?

1. Yes
2. Partially
3. Because shea couldn't defend himself. Its the path of least resistance.

[Regfan]

Sorry, been very busy. Will get to this game tonight.

[Zachrulez]

I'm interested in why bub's specifically interested in my vote when it's technically the most recent of all the active ones. (Since that was his basis.) It's an issue in a case specifically crafted against me, but not used for anyone else.

And TSQ if you have to? After me and CES? What?

Also TSQ is posting now and clearly defending himself. So your response to 3 is no longer valid.

[Captain Falcon]

BTW I picked this game because I had a great experience last year and I like the setup.

That's not what

I

think.

[Zachrulez]

BTW I picked this game because I had a great experience last year and I like the setup.

That's not what

I

think.

So enlighten por favor.

[singersigner]

Actually, a few things:

1. Do you think Shea is town?

2. Does not moving his vote make Zach scum?

3. Why do you think it's the easiest wagon?

1. Yes
2. Partially
3. Because shea couldn't defend himself. Its the path of least resistance.

1. Why?
2. Better question: is Zach scum? What else other than him not moving his vote makes him scum?
3. Like Zack said, this is no longer valid reasoning because he's been around and posting actively (however empty) in this thread. CES and I have also not budged this entire time, and yet you're not criticizing our votes on the "easy" wagon.

[Captain Falcon]

Actually, my reasoning could fall under his umbrella term "I like the setup", but I will oblige you Zach.

LLamarble is an intelligent player. He is also a good player, touting an impressive win to loss ratio, and even going as far as listing himself an 8 or a 9 in terms of player skill. Although I can't find the thread, I remember his explanation of the reason vividly. Essentially, LLmarble's definition of a good player is the rate of turnaround when replacing into a slot. Turning a bad slot into a protown slot that lives to endgame is one of his primary criteria for viewing another player as "good".

Llmarble's cockiness is just the type of thing that would lead me to believe he chose scum again (given the option). However, that rests on the question - did he have the option? Given his play, I think so.

[Amrun]

Wait, for real. Since when do I lurk as scum? Please post examples. You can't just say things in an attempt to get someone true that have no objective basis in reality.

Vote: Ces

What is there to answer? Those are stupid side snipes that mean nothing.

The 'snipes' don't mean nothing and had he not asked you 'who' you were referring to when you said 5 or so other players have done the same thing as you regarding being very active but not stating scum reads I would have asked it. I do want it answered.

I do think that ces making a comment like "shea lurks as scum." is something to look at because frankly, I think it's incredibly untrue, so I don't understand what basis he would have for such a claim unless he was inventing a case out of whole cloth to push on me.

Okay, I get it he stated that you lurk as scum and you don't think you do. That means very little to me, you don't have to post an entire reads list from town-> scum (Though I do think everyone doing so is actually optimal play but that's something for MD not here) but I do want to see a fuckload more content and reads from you.

Also I've narrowed down the pool of people I think are possibly scum to [Amrun, TSQ, Zach, Socio, Llarmable].

How can you possibly narrow down to just 5 possible subjects in 20 pages? You either are the most fantastic scum hunter that ever lived, or you are willfully blinding yourself to other possibilities. I understand the sentiment of, say "I am willing to lynch any of these X people today because I find them the most suspicious." but that's not the way you parsed it, and furthermore, your "list of people who could possibly be scum." seems to oddly parallel those that have been found suspicious of others.


Tell me this, if you have concluded that the people who are possibly scum are in that list of 5 people, then what caused you to discount the other 7 people? Why can't they be scum?

imo amrun is pretty clearly town, by the way.

It was not directed to you. It was directed to the person who just said he had deduced that the scum were among 5 possible people, oddly enough.

Well, you could comment on it instead of ignoring it, now that you've figured out what I'm talking about.

Because I hate theme shit.

Since when?

Put another way: If I am being voted because I was lurking, and now I am not lurking, it makes no sense to continue voting me, since the genesis of the votes is no longer a relevant cause It is preferable to not lynch me here because now you have a chance to read me as opposed to lynching me blind. If my new content makes me seem suspicious to you, then thats a fine reason to vote me, but barring new suspicion, voting a player for lurking when they are no longer lurking makes no sense.

And I do want CES's comment explained, back to game relevant material.

Isn't the reason that you're suspected that you're not posting content, which you still aren't? (Ftr, TSQ just got scummier in my eyes since he actually posted but with almost none content)

I am aware its not a non-serious wagon. I just think that as long as I remain here and continue to post content that it should not remain a serious wagon. Surely there are better candidates to lynch than someone who just got caught up in the real world for a little bit.

Do you think you're posting content? Because I'm not agreeing. The only thing you've contributed is a vote on CES with some shitty reasoning.

I didn't really consider "very active" as part of the bargain. But still, then, we'll throw out TSQ, and even Sociopath, who is not "very" active. Johhoq came to mind - one scum read, Ben, no reasoning at all that I remember, which shows how good it was.

What? Perhaps that was true by page 5 but you should really reread.

Alright, TSQ is more active by this post but I still think my reasoning is valid as he didn't contribute at the time he wrote that post IMO.

See those quotes above? Those are TSQ's non-defensive content posts that came BEFORE Johhog's attack on him. EVEN IF there had been zero content by that point, Johhog's attack was still 100% invalid.

lol, Amrun, you always resort to fear mongering instead of simply answering questions posed to you. Why? Am I "scummy" for not seeing the difference?

You're letting Socio troll you and it's

hilarious

.

Also, I understand your point about Johhog; however, you DID argue that Shea has provided content (as I had quoted), so I asked you to show me where. Please do so.

Preview Edit:
@Johhog...I *facepalmed* too. >_>

Fear mongering? Those words do not think what you think they mean. Like, what?

How did I not answer the question posed to me? Yes, you are scummy for not seeing the difference because it's OBVIOUS, and posing the question to me like it's not obvious seems like an attempt to "trick question" me hoping I'll trip up in my answer.

I am not letting Socio troll me. I know exactly what he's doing. I just think it's bullshit. I have no read on Socio because he's making it fucking impossible, and I don't like that.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I'm interested in why bub's specifically interested in my vote when it's technically the most recent of all the active ones. (Since that was his basis.) It's an issue in a case specifically crafted against me, but not used for anyone else.

Yes, it was last on the bandwagon. You put your vote on an easy, useless bandwagon and left it there uselessly. You haven't scumhunted much at all since that, since you could just say "TSQ's scum" and leave it there, since TSQ can't respond.

And TSQ if you have to? After me and CES? What?

Well, actually I forgot about Amrun. My lynch order would be something like Zach>CES>Amrun>>>>>>>>TSQ. I would say Haddock's replacement above TSQ as wel, but I want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Also TSQ is posting now and clearly defending himself. So your response to 3 is no longer valid.

Bullshit scum argument. That point was valid when you voted for it. "I murdered all those people because they were shitting in the urinal, but now nobody is shitting in the urinal anymore, so I'm totally absolved of murder, right?" You can't go back in time zach. Let's look at what you've said about TSQ, who is apparently your number 1 scumread, since he actually started posting:

CES vote from TSQ is unimpressive.

I can sum up the rest of his activity as basically challenging Regfan's scumreads, and then calling Amrun obvtown.

Hardly anything that screams at me to unvote. If nothing else, I want the pressure on him to remain so he doesn't just go and disappear for another week.

On TSQ's town reads. They are exclusively on people who were on the fence with him annoyed with his lurking, but not sure if it made him scum. I think that's all that needs to be said there.

Just that, and you made 18 posts since he came back. And all you said was: "I don't really want to unvote" and "I'm not sure if he's scum". On your supposed number one suspect.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Actually, a few things:

1. Do you think Shea is town?

2. Does not moving his vote make Zach scum?

3. Why do you think it's the easiest wagon?

1. Yes
2. Partially
3. Because shea couldn't defend himself. Its the path of least resistance.

1. Why?
2. Better question: is Zach scum? What else other than him not moving his vote makes him scum?
3. Like Zack said, this is no longer valid reasoning because he's been around and posting actively (however empty) in this thread. CES and I have also not budged this entire time, and yet you're not criticizing our votes on the "easy" wagon.

1. He jumped on an easy bandwagon and kept his vote on an spot. Also, read my previous post.
2. I think Zach is scum, again, see above post
3. He was the third on that easy bandwagon. It was an easy place to slide onto the bandwagon.

[Zachrulez]

I'm interested in why bub's specifically interested in my vote when it's technically the most recent of all the active ones. (Since that was his basis.) It's an issue in a case specifically crafted against me, but not used for anyone else.

Yes, it was last on the bandwagon. You put your vote on an easy, useless bandwagon and left it there uselessly. You haven't scumhunted much at all since that, since you could just say "TSQ's scum" and leave it there, since TSQ can't respond.

And TSQ if you have to? After me and CES? What?

Well, actually I forgot about Amrun. My lynch order would be something like Zach>CES>Amrun>>>>>>>>TSQ. I would say Haddock's replacement above TSQ as wel, but I want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Also TSQ is posting now and clearly defending himself. So your response to 3 is no longer valid.

Bullshit scum argument. That point was valid when you voted for it. "I murdered all those people because they were shitting in the urinal, but now nobody is shitting in the urinal anymore, so I'm totally absolved of murder, right?" You can't go back in time zach. Let's look at what you've said about TSQ, who is apparently your number 1 scumread, since he actually started posting:

CES vote from TSQ is unimpressive.

I can sum up the rest of his activity as basically challenging Regfan's scumreads, and then calling Amrun obvtown.

Hardly anything that screams at me to unvote. If nothing else, I want the pressure on him to remain so he doesn't just go and disappear for another week.

On TSQ's town reads. They are exclusively on people who were on the fence with him annoyed with his lurking, but not sure if it made him scum. I think that's all that needs to be said there.

Just that, and you made 18 posts since he came back. And all you said was: "I don't really want to unvote" and

"I'm not sure if he's scum"

. On your supposed number one suspect.

Emphasis bold. I never said that.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Fair enough. You pointed out what you admitted to be a null tell. That really furthers your case on TSQ. My case still stands.

[singersigner]

@Amrun...
"I have no read on Socio because he's making it fucking impossible, and I don't like that." Uh, yes, I believe he's trolling you.

Also, I never said you didn't answer the question, I said you had to resort to "WOW YOU MUST BE SUPER STUPID OR SUPER SCUMMY FOR NOT SEEING THIS." I'm tired of you saying everything is so fucking obvious and trying to use it as an excuse not to answer something, and then when you DO answer, you make it seem like the end of the world because, oh no, someone didn't know what you meant. Get off it woman.

Also, let's analyze those quotes, shall we?

Quote #1: "since when do I lurk as scum" is clearly in defense of himself. He lurked in WMII. There, example numero uno.

Quote #2: He hasn't even read the first 20 pages where Regfan is clearly scumhunting and showing his PoE of who he finds scummiest and who he finds town. This is an empty toss OF NOTHING into thin air that was able to trick you into thinking it was scumhunting (though I'm not surprised).

Quote #3: Stating an empty town read with nothing to back it up =/= scumhunting/content. Please don't be so naive to think it does.

Quote #4: Telling someone to comment on something when there have been questions posed to him in the pages of the game

that he hasn't even read yet

is not content. If anything it's hypocritical because he's ignored points brought up about him (that are not exclusively lurking related).

Please explain to me how Johhog's attack would still be "100% invalid" in your eyes if you didn't mistakenly see these posts as "content-worthy." Johhog's attack was "you're suspected because you're not posting content." Um, yes, Zach and I have both admitted (I don't remember if CES did or not) that we were no longer voting for Shea because he was lurking, but because he lacked content. So.

[Amrun]

VOTE: Benmage

Do you read Benmage as town?

Why do you think that SocioPath is town Benmage?

To be honest it was much of a tie-breaker, I trusted Isa more with the game than I trusted myself with it. It's not that I wouldn't be able to handle it.

I don't have that many strong reads yet but these is the ones that I have:

Town:

Bub
Llamarble
Zach

Null-town:

CES

Not a fucking clue:

Amrun
Regfan
Singer
Socio
TSQ

Null-scum:

Matias
Haddock

Scum:

Benmage

I've skimmed a bit too much though, I'll reread and see if I adjust something.

This is EVERYTHING that Johhog ever said about Benmage, leading up to his only scumread being Benmage.

I ask him why he thinks Benmage is scum. He answers:

Amrun: It's mainly a gut-read but his last posts about his reads hasn't improved my view of him, I'm going further into that when he answers my question. I guess it started though with his CES vote in RVS, I didn't like that at all as I saw that CES post as pro-town.

PEdit: In what order Matias? Town to Sum?

Isa claims that he complained multiple times about the White Flag setup in the chat. Why would you lie Regfan?

And yeah, I want some firm reasons as to why I'm scum because I see next to none reasons even though several people read me as such.

But when someone suspects him, WHY DIDN'T THEY POST REASONS?!

I'm happy with my vote and I'll not change it before we reach a consensus in the team. As of now the four of us have 3 scum reads together and it's only one of us who has a scum read on either, Isa thinks that Zach is scum, PeregrineV thinks that CES is scum and I think that Benmage is scum.

But yeah, your case is weak. Like extremely weak. I just can't see how asking for a case is scummy.

He's happy with his vote, despite never explaining more like he said he would.

I'm in basically the same situation on Johhog.

I'd pay to know what this is, it's pretty hard to defend yourself otherwise.

But I'll tell you one thing; if you suspect me for out of game reasons (lex Regfan) I'll be fucking mad post-game.

I really hate this post. I kind of skimmed over it at the time, but it's been bugging me. I'm not sure what it is about it, but I find it scummy. I thought about it a little bit and decided I think it feels like a "scum annoyed to be caught for the wrong reasons" post.

You're completely missing the point, everyone of you. I'm not saying that TSQ isn't contributing (which he is) but that he wasn't contributing at a time when he claimed to be, which means SCUM POINTS. But you want a straight answer to if I'd support a TSQ-lynch or not you can get one; I won't, not at this time. I read him as null leaning on scum.

This really annoys me. We've been talking about how I don't think it's a valid attack. TSQ CLEARLY meant, "I'm here, I'm posting, and I'm trying to play this game," but Johhog tries to twist it into a scumtell because TSQ didn't post long analysis yet. I showed before how he was WRONG to say TSQ had posted no content, but even if that HAD been true, it's taking the heart of what TSQ was saying and twisting it in a way that I find really scummy.

He's voting for me, now, and I found zero reasons he thinks I'm scummy in his ISO. Literally zero. He hasn't mentioned Benmage since I ASKED him why Benmage was scummy - and when I mentioned that he had voted Benmage and Benmage was his only real suspect and he had little reasoning for it, he said that wasn't true.

But, yes, it IS true. In essence, Johhog has done exactly what he claimed TSQ did - say he provided content when he didn't. Johhog has now talked more about why TSQ is scum than anyone else in the game, period. And yet, his vote is on me. Why? I don't know. I don't think Johhog knows. It reeks of opportunism, and he's setting himself up to get on the popular votee TSQ's wagon should that become viable in deadline.

VOTE: Johhog

[Zachrulez]

He's voting for me, now, and I found zero reasons he thinks I'm scummy in his ISO. Literally zero. He hasn't mentioned Benmage since I ASKED him why Benmage was scummy - and when I mentioned that he had voted Benmage and Benmage was his only real suspect and he had little reasoning for it, he said that wasn't true.

But, yes, it IS true. In essence, Johhog has done exactly what he claimed TSQ did - say he provided content when he didn't. Johhog has now talked more about why TSQ is scum than anyone else in the game, period. And yet, his vote is on me. Why? I don't know. I don't think Johhog knows. It reeks of opportunism, and he's setting himself up to get on the popular votee TSQ's wagon should that become viable in deadline.

VOTE: Johhog

I just looked through his iso back to the point where his vote moved to you and I can't find one either.

[SocioPath]

I have no read on Socio because he's making it fucking impossible, and I don't like that.

HOLD UP.
What do you mean, you "don't like that."?

[Regfan]

Actually, my reasoning could fall under his umbrella term "I like the setup", but I will oblige you Zach.

LLamarble is an intelligent player. He is also a good player, touting an impressive win to loss ratio, and even going as far as listing himself an 8 or a 9 in terms of player skill. Although I can't find the thread, I remember his explanation of the reason vividly. Essentially, LLmarble's definition of a good player is the rate of turnaround when replacing into a slot. Turning a bad slot into a protown slot that lives to endgame is one of his primary criteria for viewing another player as "good".

Llmarble's cockiness is just the type of thing that would lead me to believe he chose scum again (given the option). However, that rests on the question - did he have the option? Given his play, I think so.

See, while I can follow your logic here I also think after last year and given his meta or liking pure scumhunting I think he would take white flag REGARDLESS of the role that his team had in it thereby nullifiying this entire line of logic or reasoning. Though I do think his play alone is scummy.

This really annoys me. We've been talking about how I don't think it's a valid attack. TSQ CLEARLY meant, "I'm here, I'm posting, and I'm trying to play this game," but Johhog tries to twist it into a scumtell because TSQ didn't post long analysis yet. I showed before how he was WRONG to say TSQ had posted no content, but even if that HAD been true, it's taking the heart of what TSQ was saying and twisting it in a way that I find really scummy.

He's voting for me, now, and I found zero reasons he thinks I'm scummy in his ISO. Literally zero. He hasn't mentioned Benmage since I ASKED him why Benmage was scummy - and when I mentioned that he had voted Benmage and Benmage was his only real suspect and he had little reasoning for it, he said that wasn't true.

But, yes, it IS true. In essence, Johhog has done exactly what he claimed TSQ did - say he provided content when he didn't. Johhog has now talked more about why TSQ is scum than anyone else in the game, period. And yet, his vote is on me. Why? I don't know. I don't think Johhog knows. It reeks of opportunism, and he's setting himself up to get on the popular votee TSQ's wagon should that become viable in deadline.

VOTE: Johhog

I really don't find Johhogs mentions of TSQ scummy and fail to even comprehend the argument you're using against him here. He disliked TSQs entrance, found it scummy, stated so, that's all there really is to it but people are blowing it up and making it something that it's not. And I've already explained that changing his vote without reasoning seems to be a meta-town-tell for him; it's the whole reason I looked through his games therefore his change of vote to you without saying anything else most certainly isn't a scum-tell. And Johhog being lesser active and providing little content is a scum-tell for him and not for other people or for you providing a lack of suspects earlier? I don't buy it. His vote on you CANNOT be opportunism because he was the FIRST person to vote you so your attempt to portray it as him parking his vote on a wagon with no reasoning is completely incorrect. Also how is 'setting self up for voting TSQ' a scum-tell when everyone in the room agrees that TSQ is a decent lynch if it were to come down to a deadline?

But oh wait, lets look at something;

That wasn't meant as an insult, Johhoq. I was in the exact same position last year, and still somewhat this year. You and Haddock are just less experienced than the rest of this playerlist. Weakestt becomes quite relative when the overall level is high.

So you maintained Haddock as your primary scum-read and kept your vote on him for the first 3 quarters of the day, then moved to Johhog. That means you've attacked BOTH of the people that you claim are weaker players without showing much focus or real suspicion elsewhere at all. Die.

[Regfan]

We're nearing the end of the day, we're going to have to start moving towards a lynch so it's not last minute scramble. Bub, while I think Zach has a decent chance of being scum given that his posts have really gone downhill in this game he's not being lynched today so move to Amrun please.

[Amrun]

I have no read on Socio because he's making it fucking impossible, and I don't like that.

HOLD UP.
What do you mean, you "don't like that."?

I mean it's annoying and I don't like it. I don't understand your question.


@Regfan: Yes, I am - and the fact that I said that myself should tell you I don't give a rip - and has zero scum motivation. I'm going to vote whomever I think has the highest chance of flipping scum. I also have scumreads on TSQ and singer, but I think they have lower chances of flipping scum than Johhog.

But, on that note, my scumread on Haddock is lessening. I like Captain Falcon so far, and even though I know it doesn't matter at all, I can't help but feel less passion for that Ajax flipped scum. I'm trying to reason myself with statistics that I know. I did think Haddock's replace out was a minor town tell, though.

And you should know that half of a meta means nothing. What did you find in his scum meta? Does he switch votes without reason there?

I'm not really caring about him switching votes without reason, though. I'm caring about his hypocrisy and image consciousness.


Which reminds me - Johhog, can you provide me with some scum meta, please?

[Regfan]

@Regfan: Yes, I am - and the fact that I said that myself should tell you I don't give a rip - and has zero scum motivation. I'm going to vote whomever I think has the highest chance of flipping scum. I also have scumreads on TSQ and singer, but I think they have lower chances of flipping scum than Johhog.

There's plenty of scum motivation. Weaker players are generally easy to push because they defend themselves worse and drop things which can be manufactured into scum-tells. As for you making the comment earlier. I don't think it's something that came to your mind when you started your push on Johhog but the fact that you called him an easy lynch to Matias alone makes your push that much more suspect on him. Especially when I think that it's likely an attempt to jump on an alternative created wagon that isn't yourself or TSQ.

But, on that note, my scumread on Haddock is lessening. I like Captain Falcon so far, and even though I know it doesn't matter at all, I can't help but feel less passion for that Ajax flipped scum. I'm trying to reason myself with statistics that I know. I did think Haddock's replace out was a minor town tell, though.

And you should know that half of a meta means nothing. What did you find in his scum meta? Does he switch votes without reason there?

I'm not really caring about him switching votes without reason, though. I'm caring about his hypocrisy and image consciousness.

His scum meta was a lot different, he explained votes and went into things on a deeper level then what I could find from his early day town-games. His hypocrisy is something I still don't understand or agree with; He found TSQs contribution lacking, that's not scummy, that's understandable and acceptable and him having less content himself doesn't change the fact that he can legitimately find it a scum-tell, perhaps not the strongest of ones but still one.

[Regfan]

I want this Amrun lynch through soooooooo bad.

[Amrun]

There IS scum motivation to push weaker players. There ISN'T scum motivation to go, "HEY THESE PLAYERS ARE WEAKER AND HERE'S WHY - OH HEY I'M GOING TO PUSH THEM."

I will compare Johhog's meta, though. It's possible that I'm finding his playstyle scummy and that he's missing some things with English being a second language and that adding up in my mind as scummy. I will have a hard time doing this before deadline, though - my summer weekends are usually 18-20 hour work days. I'll try, but I'm not sure how crazy it is going to be.

It's not that he found TSQ's contribution lacking that I find scummy. It's the way he expressed himself about it. It looked to me like he was trying to find a scumtell, and found something he could construe as a scumtell. And he demands reasons that people are suspecting him, and yet doesn't give any of his own.

I also don't like that his strongest reasoning for scum is about TSQ, and yet that's not where his vote is. I have scumreads on them both, so I noticed that immediately.

My preferred lynch pool is {Johhog, TSQ, Haddock, singer} in that order, and I would compromise on a couple of others.

[Regfan]

There IS scum motivation to push weaker players. There ISN'T scum motivation to go, "HEY THESE PLAYERS ARE WEAKER AND HERE'S WHY - OH HEY I'M GOING TO PUSH THEM."

That's not how it went though. It didn't go like that at all and I'm guessing had I not quoted that comment it probably wouldn't have been brought up or mentioned. The manner in which you said that they were weaker players was when you were telling Matias that his push towards them is 'easy' which could completely be to white-knight a townie alongside with show some instance of 'scumhunting' whereas your turnaround makes COMPLETE sense as you jumping on a wagon that is already going with piss-shit reasoning to save yours/tsqs own asses. If you thought TSQ was scum then him stating that he wouldn't mind compromising on TSQ wouldn't be a strong scum-tell a all. You quoted a bunch of posts of Johhogs and are now backtracking on what exactly you found to be scum-tells of his.

It's not that he found TSQ's contribution lacking that I find scummy. It's the way he expressed himself about it. It looked to me like he was trying to find a scumtell, and found something he could construe as a scumtell. And he demands reasons that people are suspecting him, and yet doesn't give any of his own. I also don't like that his strongest reasoning for scum is about TSQ, and yet that's not where his vote is. I have scumreads on them both, so I noticed that immediately. My preferred lynch pool is {Johhog, TSQ, Haddock, singer} in that order, and I would compromise on a couple of others.

His defending himself and wanting to know reasoning behind peoples votes on him alongside with him attempting to diffuse this TSQ thing is not a scum-tell in the slightest. I actually find his 'if you suspect me for non-game related reasons' to be something that is much more likely to be said from town than scum and while scum want to be defensive it's also something that town do too - town players HATE being voted, especially newer/weaker town players. Also #610 from him is a decent explanation to the whole TSQ thing.

[Regfan]

But, yes, it IS true. In essence, Johhog has done exactly what he claimed TSQ did - say he provided content when he didn't. Johhog has now talked more about why TSQ is scum than anyone else in the game, period.

And yet, his vote is on me. Why? I don't know. I don't think Johhog knows. It reeks of opportunism

, and he's setting himself up to get on the popular votee TSQ's wagon should that become viable in deadline.

The bolded bit is the scummiest thing in the entire thread so far. I touched on it earlier but didn't go into it enough; You state that he's being opportunistic, which is one of the most used 'buzz' words that people use to enhance the strength of a case. Had you read his ISO, any vote count or anything at all you'd KNOW for a fact that his vote could not be opportunistic since placing an unexplained vote on someone that has 0 other votes on them is almost the opposite of opportunistic.