TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.27

Cogito Ergo Sum (3) - Benmage, Thestatusquo, Llamarble
Johhog (3) - SocioPath, Matias, Amrun
Thestatusquo (3) - singersigner, Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez
Amrun (2) - Johhog, Regfan
Bub Bidderskins (1) - Captain Falcon
Zachrulez (1) - Bub Bidderskins

Not Voting (0)

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 21, 2012, at 12:00 AM EDT (UTC-4).

[Captain Falcon]

I'm going to be unavailable tonight to make the post.

Johhog, I won't reveal who I am just yet in order to make sure people don't have prejudice or be swayed, but I will reveal before deadline.

Bub, it is a wagon. A fail wagon that has no wheels yet, and it better stay that way, but people are making attempts to start the wagon and I am not going to let that happen.

[Llamarble]

I read Zach and don't want to lynch him. I also have no interest at all in lynching Bub.
CF / Bub, can you put your votes on your favorite of the 4 viable wagons?
There are two days until deadline.

[Amrun]

But, yes, it IS true. In essence, Johhog has done exactly what he claimed TSQ did - say he provided content when he didn't. Johhog has now talked more about why TSQ is scum than anyone else in the game, period.

And yet, his vote is on me. Why? I don't know. I don't think Johhog knows. It reeks of opportunism

, and he's setting himself up to get on the popular votee TSQ's wagon should that become viable in deadline.

The bolded bit is the scummiest thing in the entire thread so far. I touched on it earlier but didn't go into it enough; You state that he's being opportunistic, which is one of the most used 'buzz' words that people use to enhance the strength of a case. Had you read his ISO, any vote count or anything at all you'd KNOW for a fact that his vote could not be opportunistic since placing an unexplained vote on someone that has 0 other votes on them is almost the opposite of opportunistic.

I actually meant that Johhog's push of the TSQ without a vote was opportunistic, not his vote on me. That was poorly worded, though, so I can see how you came to that conclusion.

Amrun finds me scummyyyyy...why, because I don't see these "obvious" things, as obvious as she does? Or because I keep pointing out when she's clearly misguided?

@Amrun...since when did you find Shea so scummy? You realize that two other people in your suspect pool are fighting quite hard to get a third one lynched, right? What does that tell you of the three of our alignments?
Also, where did Johhog say that he was providing content? Like, does he ever literally say "hey, I'm providing content guyz"?

@Regfan...can we pleasepleaseplease lynch Shea first? As shitty as her play's been so far, I'm having a hard time grasping at its scumminess outside of her connection to Shea. Basically Shea is scum regardless of Amrun's alignment, and I'd really like to see him flip first.

No - it is not even mostly because of that. It is because of your poor pushes on TSQ and Matias. You were pushing TSQ for not providing content (without even explaining why) while providing almost none of your own.

I've found Shea scummy since my team brought my attention to the thing which shall not be named. I stated it. I wish I could explain it. I can't.

And no, my top suspects do not make sense as a scum team and I am A-OK with that on Day 1. Why shouldn't I be?

And I don't understand your Johhog question at all.



@Johhog: ONCE AGAIN, you quote post 184 of Shea's saying that he was providing content and say it was false. I have ALREADY PROVEN that it was, in fact, true, and that you are wrong, but you are ignoring that.

V/LA this weekend

I thought I could do it, but I can't. Probably v/la EVERY weekend. I will try to post once a day, though, at least. In this game especially because of the deadline.

[Regfan]

Magua finally finished the read through. He agrees with me about Matias/Bub/Captain town and is very confident in them. He also agrees that Johhog is probably town from meta and thinks Zach is town strongly (We're going to be discussing this one because I don't see the strength of that). He has a strong scum read on TSQ and Llarmable and has everyone else more around nullish. Discussing Amrun with him too.

Amrun, if you think that TSQ is scum then how is Johhog stating that he would change to TSQ come deadline a scum-tell? Also about half the room has stated the same thing including me, so why is it not a scum-tell for anyone else? Honestly your whole case on Johhog is extremely bad.

IAll people on the Johhog wagon need to choose a new wagon. There is zero chance that Johhog will flip scum in my mind. The makeup of his team would not allow for the setup the requires the best scumhunting/manipulative prowess to rest on Johhog. I am sorry if this comes off as rude, Johhog, but you have just come back from a retirement and I think it would be incredibly dangerous for your team to choose you as a scum member in White Flag if your team was given the option.

Thank you. EVERYONE voting Johhog needs to get the fuck of.

Zach's wagon is equally as bad, if not worse. The people advocating a lynch or a flash lynch should end this needless pressure on Zach. Like Johhog, there is zero chance that Zach is scum given the makeup of his team and the fact that Zach plays a visibly worse scumgame and has expressed dislike of scum publicly.

This was my initial thought however it's weakened a lot as the day has gone on. I really dislike his place thus far but aren't anywhere near comfortable lynching him.

I think you're wrong about Bub. Read his case on Haddock (Your slot) it comes off as if he genuinely believes everything in it and he thinks he nailed a CES-
Haddock connection from it that I don't think he'd have gone into as scum. Also Haddock was right about Amrun and you're best following his footsteps re; it.

[Amrun]

It's not that he is willing to switch to TSQ at deadline ... That's not the issue at all. It's how he chose to push THAT more than he ever pushed anything else, like his LEGITIMATE SCUMREADS, supposedly. It doesn't add up at all. If he had said that same thing about TSQ and said more about me and Benmage, it wouldn't bother me as much (or at all actually).

That being said, meh, I actually think 669 by Falcon is a good point, and a quick skim of meta reveals that Regfan's representation of Johhog's meta is pretty accurate. Also my teammates don't really think Johhog is scum. They don't have a town read on him, really, but not convinced he's scum.

Ugh why are scumreads so HARD this game. I don't know what it is, but this game is like trying to read words written in sand for some reason.

Given the nearness of deadline and my limited access, I'm going to...

VOTE: TSQ

I think TSQ has a decently good chance of flipping scum, and his flip will tell me a lot. A lot of lower-end reads would be improved by knowing his alignment.

[SocioPath]

Socio, why did you refuse to answer Amrun's post about chosing this game? The answer to this question last year, and I'll quote it is much more comforting about your alignment than the one you gave this year.

Did you read what I wrote last year?
Or did you just quote it for posturing?

In fact your whole play last year seems to be a lot more powerful, energetic, and eager. Your play here is almost the complete opposite of the vigor you had.

Sorry, I am new to this site.

[Johhog]

It's not that he is willing to switch to TSQ at deadline ... That's not the issue at all. It's how he chose to push THAT more than he ever pushed anything else, like his LEGITIMATE SCUMREADS, supposedly. It doesn't add up at all. If he had said that same thing about TSQ and said more about me and Benmage, it wouldn't bother me as much (or at all actually).

It's not even worth arguing with you as you're clearly not reading my responses, but here goes once again: I've not pushed TSQ much more than you, it's that I have to reiterate the same argument over and over (is it the sixth time now? Something like that at least).

@Johhog: ONCE AGAIN, you quote post 184 of Shea's saying that he was providing content and say it was false. I have ALREADY PROVEN that it was, in fact, true, and that you are wrong, but you are ignoring that.

You haven't proved anything, the only thing that you've proved is that posting = content for you, a definition that I think neither I or the majority of the town agree with. In case you change your mind/or you're willing to see my definition, read his ISO. Because I'm not explaining at again.

I really really want an Amrunlynch, and it's so evident that she's just trying to save her own skin that it hurts. She voted me with next to none suspicion of me before just because I looked like a likely lynch and now when a TSQ lynch is imminent she switched to him.

Trust me on this one. Amrun's actions are NOT pro-town and I think that we have a higher chance of hitting scum here than on TSQ who's just a lurker at this point.

Also, @Falcon: I hope you out yourself ASAP because as it stands now you have an unfair advantage as the only one in this competition we can't meta. Your team mates outed themselves, too.

[Johhog]

Also, scumday. Woooo!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Amrun is not getting lynched. Switch to shea, Johhog.

[Regfan]

Amrun is not getting lynched. Switch to shea, Johhog.

Why isn't she getting lynched and does a Amrun-TSQ-Llarmable scum-team work?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

You really think a strong player like Amrun would get deadline-lynched over lurker Shea with the votes 4-2 in her favour at the start? And sure, I guess that team would work.

[Regfan]

I think the reasoning behind Amrun being scum is a lot stronger than Shea being scum, so yes.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Such naïveté.

[Regfan]

Which do you think is more likely:

1) TSQ's team would let him get deadline lynched as scum without him posting to defend himself or push the wagon elsewhere.
2) Amruns team getting her to jump on another leading wagon to save herself from getting lynched as scum (Note: Johhog and TSQ votes)

Because I find 2) more likely than 1).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I find 1) more likely than 2), actually. I haven't seen any sign that TSQ's team cares about what happens in this game and frankly, his team mates don't strike me as the type that would.

[Amrun]

Johhog, YES you have talked about shea more than me. As I pointed out, and Zach agreed, you've given exactly zero reasons why I'm scum. In fact, that's the FIRST POST where yoi address it all (and poorly). And now I've pushed you about it.

And NO, posting does not equal content, but talking about alignments and game happenings are, and I showed where he did that.


Question: Johhog, do you prefer scum or town? Which do you think you're better at? Why?

Regfan, if you really think my team would tell me to vote Johhog at deadline, or AnYONE because he's a leading wagon, regardless of alignment, then LOL.

[Johhog]

Johhog, YES you have talked about shea more than me. As I pointed out, and Zach agreed, you've given exactly zero reasons why I'm scum. In fact, that's the FIRST POST where yoi address it all (and poorly). And now I've pushed you about it.

And NO, posting does not equal content, but talking about alignments and game happenings are, and I showed where he did that.

Look, I've already countered these arguments but you're like a robot who just go on and on without reading the game.

Question: Johhog, do you prefer scum or town? Which do you think you're better at? Why?

Yeah, RTFT.

[Amrun]

"Replying" does not equal "countering." I've read the game, and probably more than you have.

What does RTFT mean?

[Johhog]

Read The Fucking Thread.

[Regfan]

Q

uestion: Johhog, do you prefer scum or town? Which do you think you're better at? Why?

I did come across this and this post of his here he states he much strongly prefers town roles, though he was scum in that game. Looked a little further and found him saying essentially the same thing in this game

From the first link:

1) What alignment and role do you prefer, and why?

I like pro-town roles more, as I've a hard time lying and love to take out the bad guys.

From the third link:

2) Would you prefer to be Mafia or Town?

I always prefer to be town, I just can't lie.

Would prefer to be town more than ever in this game, can't be easy to be a scum-IC in your first IC game.

It's like you didn't read the post where I explained why I was pretty sure he was town. But wait;

I actually think 669 by Falcon is a good point, and

a quick skim of meta reveals that Regfan's representation of Johhog's meta is pretty accurate.

Also my teammates don't really think Johhog is scum. They don't have a town read on him, really, but not convinced he's scum.

[Regfan]

Now can we lynch her CES?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

No.

[Johhog]

Oh yeah, nice catch Regfan.

[Regfan]

I'll be at a drinking-marathon thing for the next 24 hours so I likely won't be able to post at all during it.

No.

Every time you refuse to join me on the Amrun lynch you give Magua reason to mock me more. Nobody wants that.