TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.28

Thestatusquo (4) - singersigner, Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez, Amrun
Cogito Ergo Sum (3) - Benmage, Thestatusquo, Llamarble
Amrun (2) - Johhog, Regfan
Johhog (2) - SocioPath, Matias
Bub Bidderskins (1) - Captain Falcon
Zachrulez (1) - Bub Bidderskins

Not Voting (0)

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 21, 2012, at 12:00 AM EDT (UTC-4).

Mod Notes

Amrun is V/LA until May 21.

[Matias]

The only two people I will compromise a lynch on is Johhog and POSSIBLY Amrun (it's not preferred; I see SOME town qualities in her but I can also see her as scum)

I will not vote Shea or CES. The out on Shea is fucking ridiculous, for the record.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Well, clearly the zach flash wagon isn't getting anywhere, so I'm going to make my vote useful.

unvote; vote: Amrun

Willing to lynch CES as well. I really don't want to lynch TSQ as I think the wagon on him is pure shit, but I'd vote for him given no other options.

[Matias]

The wagon on TSQ is indeed pure shit.

Johhog or Amrun. I'll throw down the hammer vote, but you guys choose, because I'm not lynching anyone else at this point. Sorry.

[Matias]

Unvote

[Captain Falcon]

I'm putting this at the top of my post because I think it is the most important, across all games of Team Mafia. Please, all of you, tell your teammates, so that everyone involved in Team Mafia will respond.

I want on a scale of 1 - 10 the degree of intensity that you all wish to win. This will help all towns in all of the games determine how likely a team is going to give a member a scum role. I know this is playing into the "meta" of people choosing town versus people choosing scum, but it is a simple request and will help every town navigate the complexities of the role distribution and the team's choices on who will represent them in what game.

Please do this at the earliest convenience!

Spoiler: Wall of Death, sorry!

vote: CES

1. Bandwagon inflation
2. Not doing anything to try and get of RVS

Discuss.

How is 1 not accomplishing 2? This is an illogical argument. Bub's probably town for it, though.

Hell, you could go back at anytime and review the game itself. That scumteam was nominated for a scummy. There's plenty of reason to believe that Llamarble was going to be wagoned.

I really agree with Matias on this one. Anyone that played in last year's White Flag (me, Matias, singer very briefly), have an absolutely bone to pick with Llamarble.

I played in White Flag because I have been trying to erase that game from existence all year and I really need to replace it with better memories. So if we lose, I hate everyone who is town. Basically.

CES is being cagey and it makes me uncomfortable. Not sure why he's so avidly attacking early reads. What is so bad about Llamarble's Haddock read?

I like it, actually.

VOTE: Captain Haddock

p-edit: I wonder if this will be repeat of last year and I'll catch scum for how they attack Matias/DH.

I generally disagree with almost everything in this post. So much that I just want to take my F-zero skills and drive the fuck away.

First she gives Bub some town points for stating very bad reasoning as his suspicion of CES. I'm sorry?

Like I said previously, about Bub and CES, they both are applying soft pressure to each other without ever really sticking to an opinion. Amrun also fits this bill, especially with this post.

Amrun states that anyone who was in WF last year has a reason to be suspicious of Llmarble. Why? Because he chose scum and the scumteam
cleverly deceived the rest of the town. I can only assume that Amrun would continue to have suspicion of Llmarble given his play last year after that comment, yet she likes his read on my predecessor.

Her reasoning for choosing this game is also peculiar as she specifically picked this game to erase bad memories from last year. Wouldn't you rather choose a game so far from this one so you wouldn't have to relive the same experiences? I don't understand the logic behind this and it just seems like filler to a question *Llmarble* asked.

Her comment on CES is just like the suspicion that Bub is trying to apply to CES. Noncommittal and more generally soft accusations, not to mention her smarmy pedit in response to Singer voting Matias. I have a question Amrun, did you include CES's FoS on Matias into your "I'm gonna catch scum suspecting Matias" statement?

I feel like everyone should have volunteered this information, yes, but since it was never made a point of, I don't feel like the people who did not are scummy, especially considering they're mostly newbies to team mafia.

Consider this me asking everyone why they chose this game.

So you think scum Matias would purposely draw attention to himself? Why?

And can you show me where you think he's tooting his own horn? I don't see that.

Yes, just like Llmarble started the game last year. Asking everyone why they chose this game and who their partners were.

I thought you had a bone to pick and bad memories to replace?

I like very vanilla setups. Themes and roles and crap bust my balls.

Is that why the only Open game on your wiki was one you replaced into? And even then it was hardly vanilla like this game? You chose this game ... an open game... over Closed Normal and Almost Normal, but you barely ever play in Opens?

You're also telling me that, given your proclaimed Town loss stagnation, that your team felt confident enough to give you a town game, reliant on the sole aspect of scumhunting, ignoring your above average winrate as scum?

I have relatively strong town reads on Zach and Singer at the moment and a weaker ones on Bub and Captain. I don't find Matias plan as scummy, I think he'd do it regardless of his alignment. I do find his 'the question of the day is if you made it up or not, if you did you're scum' rant as scummy though, especially with it followed by 'leaving it for now'. Slaxx has told me he can read Matias like a book though so I'll wait for his thoughts.

I agree for the most part with this paragraph, except I have reservations on that last line. I've seen another one of your teammates use very similar wording. I can't go any further, but your teammate should definitely not be having trouble with the person that can be "read as a book". I'm trying to gauge whether or not you should either...

I think relaying information from the QT is fine in doses. The only real thought on the playerlist that Slaxx/my team-mates stated pre-game was that he thought you'd be more likely to rejoin this setup as scum rather than town considering how last year went down.

Ladies and gentlemen, Regfan and Slaxx win the prize of 5 minutes in my F-zero racer.

That's weird, because when we voted internally White Flag was on the bottom of both his and mine lists. To avoid flipping a coin though I volunteered, I decided that MetaMafia was too hard for me as I'm recently back to this site.

This is why no sane team would ever give a totally skill reliant setup to a recently returned player.

@RegFan: Can you find that comment from Isa anywhere?

This is Amrun trying to push an early Johhog wagon. Fortunately it fell flat on its face at that time.

Slaxx has a strong town read on DH. He's pretty positive that Scum-DH wouldn't post #114 and I agree with him there. I also found DHs comments about his team QT discussion to be a minor town-tell. The only thing we disagree with at the moment is our read on Amrun.

Yup. This part of your team is town.

Your vote on Llamarble was terrible in general. Why do you think it wouldn't apply to you?

It doesn't apply to me because I always place my vote on the biggest bandwagon at the beginning of a game. Purest meta null tell you're likely to find.

Uhh... I'm not following. You've only proven that you do it as both alignments and if he thinks it is scummy that should be fine.

Speaking of which, after Matias explained his logic to me, his early game actions make a lot more sense. Yeah, he was grasping at straws if he hoped to get any scum suspects, but it was the RVS, and those straws were scum. For that I think he's likely town.

Also, Amrun brought up an intersting thing about Haddock:

Why the fuck is their play so damn similar (between Amrun and Bub)? Bub's over justification of Matias as town is suspicious as normally I feel scum are likely to over justify their votes.

Oh, right, forgot. my bad.

You certainly aren't trying to forget memories in this year's game are you?

I got some 'GO LYNCH ZACH' from my QT.
QT also thinks CES town, Singer town, Bub probtown, Johhog scum.

Your QT is retarded. :troll:

How is 1 not accomplishing 2? This is an illogical argument. Bub's probably town for it, though.

Hrm, I think this comes from scum SLIGHTLY more often than it comes from town.
And I do feel a little buddied by Amrun.
I wish Flash IV hadn't been eaten by the tigers.

I believe she is.

Bub has a history of making illogical arguments as town.

So now the truth comes out, why don't you present this information upfront when you first apply the read?

Bub has a history of making illogical arguments as town.

That's more true than I'd like .

Llamarble, why does your QT think Zach is scum? I've got a pretty strong town read on him.

Oh, and CooLDoG wants everybody to stop using bullshit meta on last years game .

I repeat my previous statement - why you, if you're town, to represent your team?

FoS: Johhog

Fishing around for views on self instead of scum. This most is mainly just a defense asking for reasons why people think he's scum. Also, Johhog's vote has been parked on Benmage long passed its welcome. He's given no follow up pressure or reasoning behind his vote that I can see. His posts have mainly been weak questions without follow up or anything.

As a player who is seen as scummy regardless of alignment, people just handing out suspicions on you is quite annoying, not to mention, scum will often try to save you for a mislynch. Getting suspicions in "print" form is vital to later game analysis once scum have to actually *make* an assertion and stick to their opinion. Right now scum are most likely trying to keep their options open for potential mislynches (i.e. Johhog).

Shea-benmage-Llamarble is the scum team.

You don't have the right to say things like this without backing up your assertions. I know this will be hard, but why?

Johhog's townieness shines through in his Team Mafia-related dealings. He's not scum.

The first one to announce this, why are you so certain?

Also not feeling Johhoq-scum, just Johhoq-useless.

Not voting TSQ just for not posting.

Scum already building their town reads on people most likely to be lynched. Classic.

The depressing thing though, is that we LOST last years White Flag mafia as well.
So may that as it may, I am not going to make the same mistakes twice.

After reading this post in context and his answer to my original question I feel like Socio is likely town.

I really don't think what you're doing right now is pro-town, but you're town, so I'll just let you do whatever you want to do.

In my opinion this is not like Amrun town. I've seen her be much more aggressive to townreads she views as dumb/seeing her as scum and this whole post looks like it is capitulating to Regfan in order to not step on his toes and indirectly buddy him. :\

Your Amrunscumread sucks, Regfan.

Honestly, when I get these ideas of teammates and then things like this start happening I get scarred that I am very horribly wrong and seeing only what I want to see. >_> I know there is a wagon on CES + Amrun right now, but why aren't people seeing the same scumminess that I see in Bub? :\

Here's where I'm at:

Conftown via truth tells
Benmage
Zachrulez
singersigner

Most town looking
Regfan
Matias
Llamarble
Johhog

Other reasoning
SocioPath
Captain Haddock

Remainder:
Thestatusquo
Amrun
Bub Bidderskins
Cogito Ergo Sum

I want to have little Captain Falcon babies with you.

Show me your moves!

Socio, what are your thoughts on Haddock

Looking at him isn't as important as looking at his wagon.
He is much finer than those that vote him.

and Jahudo?

Johhog

, the way he responds to poking is going to be the determining factor here.

I just realized that

And who on his wagon looks interesting to you? Come on Socio, get in the game here.

I really can't read Amrun, so I'm asking my QT for help. I relay that info back, but either way I think Haddock and Amrun are not scum together. Amrun started the whole wagon on Haddock. I don't see scum doing that on a buddy.

A little bit of Monica all night long
A little bit of Amrun to sing this song

A little bit of posturing here and there
Bub is scum caught in his underwear

Out of all the things that have happened, Benmage listing him as scum, Regfan's lists, and so forth. There was a lot of new information to be discussed, but Bub conveniently ignores it.

vote: haddock

Bub makes this very big post saying that he still does not agree with other people saying Haddock is town, and votes him to prove his still confident in this slot being scum. However, when I was skimming through the thread, he eventually just drops this line of suspicion onto someone else? I don't believe it and I'll make another comment once I read through more of the thread, but that is one thing that definitely stuck out in my mind.

How do you reconcile that that scumteam doesn't make sense from play?

Say what? You just supported Bub stating that CES + Haddock are possibly a team. Are you dimissing this based on the fact that you were included by Marble? I think you are and that is scummy as fuck.

Walls happen.

Meanwhile Benmage continues to set off alarm bells in my head and TSQ continues to provide nothing of value.

I find Benmage to be a difficult person to read (and I'm mostly blinded by my infatuation with our similar reads sans TSQ), why is he sending off alarm bells?

Scum: Thestatusquo, benmage, Llamarble
Back-up scum: Bud Bibberskins, Captain Haddock, Amrun

Again I repeat myself, Amrun just said marble's case was bad listing you, her, and my slot. You said the case that Bub made was silly yet you list Haddock as backup scum.

You also list a lurker, who has *no* game posts as scum, and the two people who have named you as scum with basically all the people you've listed as scum.

What the fuck is that CES.

I'm not going to quote the interaction between Singer and Amrun on page 14 because I feel it can go without saying. Singer brought up some legitimate points about the TSQ argument and Amrun responded super defensively. she hides behind the fact that her team is discussing something which may or may not break rules and then goes on to apologize to Singer again, in what looks like a capitulating move to a commonly held townread.

I intend for my reads to be static throughout the game.

Why is your scumhunting so shallow, 'marble?

Do you really think you are that good that you don't have to change your reads and that you are right the first time? What will happen if none of those people you've listed as scum ever flip as scum?

I will be fucking pissed off if we lynch a lurker on D-1. Here's what we do, we lynch scum today, then TSQ gets the night to read back up on this game. If he doesn't post anything worthwhile, then we can start lynching him. But as for right now, a lynch on TSQ is stupid and easy and anti-town.

This reads as completely fucking ungenuine in my opinion.

Matias's fail with regards to Amrun "lying" is disconcerting and has made me suspicious of that slot as well as overall weakening my read on Amrun since that resposne seemed very town + it supports her further meta opinions.

:\

That said, Regfan's analysis of Amrun stating she has many scumreads rings true and I feel that Regfan is very likely town.

Right now, I'm really not feeling the Amrun wagon. It seems mainly based on an off-hand comment she made that doesn't really mean anything. I'd much prefer a Haddock or Johhog lynch.

Just like you don't prefer the lynch on TSQ as well but advocate if he is still lurking to get him tomorrow. Bub still at this point has suspicions of this slot and wants a lynch on it.

I didn't comment on a lot of stuff in between now as I feel like I would just be rehashing the same point over and over again. People already hate it when I do this and if my wall doesn't give you an indication of who I am to those of you who have played with me, shame on you.

In other news: my team and I are pretty on board with similar town reads, and that's awesome.

Kublai Kahn thinks Sociopath's noncontribution is bullshit and he deserves to be lynched for it, or voted until he stops.

Good thing we will never know what those reads since you don't like them/won't post them. Does Kublai also think that TSQ's lurking is bullshit?

Because your suspicion of TSQ and your statement that you all have similar town reads would say your team thinks TSQ is scum.

How can you possibly narrow down to just 5 possible subjects in 20 pages? You either are the most fantastic scum hunter that ever lived, or you are willfully blinding yourself to other possibilities.

>_>

<_<

... >_>

Reg, I don't buy that Johhog is town this game. If the ONLY reason why Johhog is town is because of his preference for non-scum, that isn't enough.

I generally agree with that it isn't enough, but I stand behind my assertion that it is very unlikely Johhog is scum as I have said earlier.

But he is posting content, and the fact that you are suspicious of him

now

that he has posted content more than before when he wasn't is either stupid or scummy or both. To say that TSQ isn't posting content now is disingenuous and reeks of scum trying to preserve what once was an easy wagon.

unvote; vote: Johhog

Funny how he went from dead certain that Haddock was scum to wanting a lynch on Haddock and Johhog to voting Johhog. I do not think Bub is town in the slightest. I think he is trying to setup for the best availability of a mislynch and Matias's suspicions + rebuttal against Regfan was the motivation and the spark that Bub needed to jump onto Johhog.

No mention of my slot at all when he made this post.

Try reading things, Bud.

Man, you're right .

Johhog spent so much time making up bullshit arguments for his null-scum read that I didn't even realize that his actual scumread was Amrun, who he was busy putting exactly zero pressure on. My bad!

Yup. You aren't going to get out of this one trying to play that opportunism away.

I want Bub blood only because I feel he is the most likely to flip scum out of Amrun + CES + Bub. However, I can't really say I'm not happy with the the wagons on CES and Amrun either.

Also, if you guys are annoyed that I posted this huge ass wall well I condensed it to a reread wall + scumreads wall to save time and effort on my part and the fact that reading three probably shorter walls is a lot worse than just one big one. I'm sorry in advance.

I don't agree, but okay.

Shea/TSQ, please don't give into Amrun's appeal/defense of you. I'm putting this down as buddying.

She was scummy before the comment and one person was voting for her. She was scummy after the comment, and four people are voting for her for stuff she did before the comment. Do you see the problem I have with this wagon? All those reasons could have been used earlier but they weren't, because Amrun wasn't a convenient wagon then.

Okay, this is idiotic. No one and I mean no one who voted Amrun voted her even partially because of 'any specific comment' yet you INSIST that it's the case. Sure, some of the reasons for voting her could have been used to vote her earlier but that doesn't negate the strength or validity of them been put forward later, nor does it make the votes that followed it suspicious in any way.

Fine, just explain to me how Amrun got three more votes within 24 hours.

Defending TSQ like no other to defending Amrun while forgoing trying to get his scumread lynched. In my opinion, if Bub was town he would try to push his own scumread as a counter to Amrun's WHILE he was defending Amrun/trying to shut down her wagon.

CES' reasons for voting TSQ are lol fail.

@Reg: give me one non-meta reason why Johhog is not scum. Just one.

Add another one to the Bub - CES - Amrun connection Triangle.

unvote

I did a re-read of Johhog's iso, and for some fucking reason he looks town to me now. The main reason I thought he was scummy was because he didn't pressure any of his scum suspects. But looking back at his votes, none of them looked like scum votes. Scum either A) want to start a mislynch wagon or B) try to hop on an easy wagon unnoticed. Johhog's two votes were a random vote on Benmage that he later stuck with and a vote on Amrun when nobody was voting for Amrun. He didn't add much pressure to his vote, but he didn't use his vote in a scum-motivated way.

I feel like he actually thought that Benmage and Amurn were scum at the time. And then there's the meta stuff that Reg brought up. I think he may just be town...

Oh my fucking god. This post sends shivers down my spine. I cannot even begin to describe the feeling of how artificial and forced the "feelings" conveyed in this post look. Bub hopped onto Johhog's wagon once others signaled intent to vote him, was pointed out that the reasoning he used to vote Johhog was not entirely correct, and it took him until now to unvote. Not to mention, he again overjustifies, this time moving off Johhog's wagon once it becomes clear the Johhog's wagon is going to go nowhere. The last line is killer and the "I think he may just be town..." is definitely a posturing move in order to buy some more time until other desirable lynches (i.e. not on CES + Amrun, his buddies) present themselves.

unvote; vote: Zach

Why are you voting for somebody that you aren't sure is scum four days until deadline. I really don't like how your vote has been parked on the easiest wagon to get on.

Shit tastic vote and just a way for Bub to buy more time before he has to make an actual committment on which teammate he should be voting for between CES and Amrun.

Zach is town. Without a doubt. Bub is applying fake pressure to look active, hoping that an alternative will pop up.

This is when I replace in.

tl;dr

Amrun, Bub, and CES are the scumteam.

Their interactions with each other are all passive attempts at applying suspicion and they each in turn seem to defend each other in a cycle

Ideally I would get my Bub lynch but I will be voting for Amrun at deadline

[Llamarble]

Bub :is: town. Also Bub is voting for Amrun right now, so I doubt that they are scum together.
It was brutally difficult winning after DGB got lynched D1 last year.

TSQ wagon is bad. His response to being run up is town and the lurking his wagon was based on seems unlikely to be strategic.
He's been unapologetic/righteously-annoyed at his wagon in a town way since getting back.
He called Amrun town, and scum don't often call likely alternatives to themselves town.

VOTE: Amrun
I would still prefer CES, but I reread and 680, her wagon vs TSQ's wagon (CES doesn't want to lynch her but Regfan does), and just going through everything again I think she's decently likely to flip scum.
I will hopefully be able to check in one more time before deadline, so if there is a CES wagon at that point I'll move my vote back.

[singersigner]

@Amrun...how do you not understand my question? It's pretty straight forward and the answer is QUITE obvious if you ask me.

[singersigner]

But really, you said that Johhog wa berating Shea for not posting content, while Johhog isn't posting content of his own.

The difference is that Johhog's never claimed to be posting all of this SUPER AWESOME content while Shea proclaimed it every other post.

Also, you never responded to/commented on my breakdown of the "content" posts by Shea you provided.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Singer, get off your plz.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Amrun, Bub, and CES are the scumteam.

Their interactions with each other are all passive attempts at applying suspicion and they each in turn seem to defend each other in a cycle

So what you're saying is that that Amrun-Bub-CES is definitely not the scum team?

I was going to respond to points in Falcon's wall but bleh, too much inanity to deal with.

More votes for shea.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

TSQ wagon is bad. His response to being run up is town and the lurking his wagon was based on seems unlikely to be strategic.

It's unlikely to be entirely strategic, but that's not particularly relevant.

He's been unapologetic/righteously-annoyed at his wagon in a town way since getting back.

He's pretending the problem doesn't exist in a competent scum way.

He called Amrun town, and scum don't often call likely alternatives to themselves town.

Shouldn't, maybe (since you can just self preservation your way onto the wagon). Don't, no.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Singer, get off your plz.

Fuck.

EBWOP: Singer, get off your fail wagon plz.

[Equinox]

Benmage has been prodded.

[Captain Falcon]

Singer, get off your plz.

Show me your moves!

Amrun, Bub, and CES are the scumteam.

Their interactions with each other are all passive attempts at applying suspicion and they each in turn seem to defend each other in a cycle

So what you're saying is that that Amrun-Bub-CES is definitely not the scum team?

I was going to respond to points in Falcon's wall but bleh, too much inanity to deal with.

More votes for shea.

Erm, no. You each in turn are applying minor pressure as well as defending each other, but never the same person at the same time. I have seen scum do this as a way to distance.

Maybe I won't reveal who I a really am...

Llmarble, why is Bub town?

I am going to keep repeating myself until you bastards tell me how much each team wants to win.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Erm, no. You each in turn are applying minor pressure as well as defending each other, but never the same person at the same time. I have seen scum do this as a way to distance.

It works just fine as a sign that X and Y are buddies if X and Y are not too competent. But having an entire team act that way amongst each other seems pretty unlikely to me especially if it's a team that's supposed to have Amrun and me on it.

[Zachrulez]

Falcon is giving me a strong town read now, stronger than Haddock.

The wagon on TSQ is indeed pure shit.

Johhog or Amrun. I'll throw down the hammer vote, but you guys choose, because I'm not lynching anyone else at this point. Sorry.

Even if the alternative is a no lynch? That's just terrible.

I really don't want to reward TSQ's play/lack of play by allowing him to get any deeper in the game, especially when there's a really good chance that it's scum motivated on his part. (To all those arguments that it makes him town. Fuck you.) To me, that's a lot worse than lynching anyone else who's actually bothered to contribute reasonably today.

Vote TSQ in 2012!

[Zachrulez]

Would take a Benmage or Llamarble lynch failing that. Any other wagon is a meh/avoid no lynch wagon.

[SocioPath]

Maybe I won't reveal who I a really am...

Anyone paying attention should already know this information anyways.

[Regfan]

Matias, Magua wants to know if you think Shea is town (If so why) or if you just think the wagon on him is opportunistic. I'd like Bub to answer it too.

Bub makes this very big post saying that he still does not agree with other people saying Haddock is town, and votes him to prove his still confident in this slot being scum. However, when I was skimming through the thread, he eventually just drops this line of suspicion onto someone else? I don't believe it and I'll make another comment once I read through more of the thread, but that is one thing that definitely stuck out in my mind.

Funny how he went from dead certain that Haddock was scum to wanting a lynch on Haddock and Johhog to voting Johhog. I do not think Bub is town in the slightest. I think he is trying to setup for the best availability of a mislynch and Matias's suspicions + rebuttal against Regfan was the motivation and the spark that Bub needed to jump onto Johhog. No mention of my slot at all when he made this post.

This is probably the reason I find strongest in your entire wall and reduces the strength of my town read on him quite a bit. His dropping of his Haddock-CES case and theory happens very abruptly without much discussion or explanation behind it. It also leaves him an opening to jump back to this theory later if a mslynch or two were to happen. I want it explained asap. With that said, I think you're exaggerating some of his other actions and tunneling somewhat.

For instance the same point re; lack of opens played could be said for me. I hate most theme games, I hate games that involve a lot of roles. I prefer relatively vanilla setups and find open setups specifically mountainous style setups to be a lot more enjoyable however my 'wiki' or 'game history' contains nearly no games of it. Also I disagree with your point about his "town loss stagnation" making him more likely to have a scum role because as town this sort of system (Team Mafia) is the perfect way to improve your town game. You're able to discuss reads, thoughts, theories and ideas with 3 other people that you know are town.

Some other things about your wall;

- While I see where you're coming from with Socio I don't agree. I think Town-Socio is likely to be trying to be more reserved to avoid a night kill but I also think Scum-Socio will use that same excuse to be lesser active so altogether I find his drop in activity this year in comparison to last years game to be relatively null.

- I'd like your stance on Llarmable explained, because in #632 you stated that you thought given his play he was scum however he's not one of your Amrun-CES-Bub connection. Does this mean you have alternate scum-reads outside of your called scum team?

- I didn't fully grasp or decipher what you were referring to re; "Able to read like a book" comment but hopefully someone on my team can.

[Regfan]

Also 18 hours till the deadline. Can people switch their votes to Amrun now please.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Amrun and shea are the only 2 acceptable votes right now.

More votes for shea, please.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Would take a Benmage or Llamarble lynch failing that. Any other wagon is a meh/avoid no lynch wagon.

This makes me think Amrun is scum with zach.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Zach is town tho'.

[Captain Falcon]

Would take a Benmage or Llamarble lynch failing that. Any other wagon is a meh/avoid no lynch wagon.

This makes me think Amrun is scum with zach.

Will you answer Regfan's questions please?

Reg, that was what I was thinking with Socio too. Regardless of his alignment, he would have chosen this game. I can see two possibilities with Socio's play.

He drew scum in this game and is deciding to play like a wounded allstar from last year's game
or
He drew town and is playing close to the vest so he isn't offed the first night

From rereading what he is posting, and his statement for choosing this game last year, I think he is town.

I can also not comment on anything with regards to your book comment without potentially getting a point infraction. I'm sorry I even brought it up.

My stance on Llmarble is still a minor scumread although I haven't exactly expressed as much. I don't see Llmarble as one to just give into another wagon when he has been saying scum CES for a very long time, but he hasn't exactly been trying to push for that wagon.

He votes for Amrun using Haddock + your logic as basis for the vote while having her in a "reread" category of his scumlist. His "woe is me" comment about getting a new read on people every time he reads through feels forced too. After he feels better about Amrun he goes back to CES only to once again move back to Amrun basically sheeping you and going off the assumption that CES scum doesn't want Amrunscum to die.

I'm curious what his Bub read is and why he thinks Bub is town.