TM2012: Scummies 2011.5 - Let the credits roll!

[MagnaofIllusion]

One other note that I think bears mention here -

Lost Butterfly in today's Judging QT has mentioned that a player who is lynched still counts towards Scummie distribution if they cast said vote before they were lynched. So we can safely assume Ajax voted and scum in some way capitalized on it. Furthermore that revelation means that Mafia probably do have Daytalk as unless they have an outright re-direct or another scum was in Group 1A they wouldn't have known which player Ajax had voted for manipulation purposes.

Food for thought.

[T-Bone]

Wait MoI, I think our category qualified as 'undecided', which according to the rules allows scum to mess with it. We didn't have a 50%+1 majority.

Which means, the judging groups should decide in the judging QTs from now on to prevent that from happening again.

[T-Bone]

4) Undecided categories: (THIS ONLY COMES IN TO PLAY IF THE JUDGES FAIL TO REACH A DECISION - SCUM DO NOT GET A FREE PICK IF NOT)

a) At night, the scumteam is informed of which categories/roles were left undecided. They may then pick one award from the undecided categories to assign to a player who was eligible for the award during the day (i.e., was not a member of that category's judging group).

b) If a category was undecided due to the judges' inability to reach a consensus on a role, the scumteam may choose to assign any award in it. If the judges agreed on a Scummie, but no candidates received any secret ballot votes, the scumteam can only assign that Scummie.

[Lost Butterfly]

Day 2, Votecount 4

Magua (1) - DeasVail

Not voting

(10): xRECKONERx, MagnaofIllusion, BBmolla, Kublai Khan, Magua, Quilford, T-Bone, theamatuer, hitogoroshi, Zar

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch or no-lynch.

Deadline:

June 3rd at 4:01pm (EDT)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-06-03 16:01:00)

Countdown to the end of First Half Judging

: (expired on 2012-05-24 16:01:00)

[MagnaofIllusion]

d) The eligible player with the most votes will win the category and be informed of his new role during twilight. We will use random.org to break a tie.

You may abstain from voting, but if no one votes, then this award is also undecided.

T-Bone you are not reading the right section. Undecided refers to Scummies that were not decided within the Judging QT (LB also made a post clarifying this at Post 39).

Per the rule set the player with the most 'secret' votes will win the category. In this case it's not possible for everyone who voted (Reck / Quil / Myself) to be scum lying about so Scum had to use some sort of manipulation.

The bolded specifically states the category is undecided only if No-one votes.

[T-Bone]

I'm confusing award voting and player voting. Nevermind.

[MagnaofIllusion]

T-Bone –

Grey wants me to ask you some questions because he thinks you are scummy. In regards to the following –

Guys in 1A, I apologize. When I had that issue last week, I missed the opportunity to vote and did not submit one in time. I did submit a late vote on Zar though. I'll PM the Mod and see if they were lenient enough to count it or not.

In Post 242 you said that your two strongest Town reads were Fonz and BBMolla. This was your last explicit Town read give of the day. Yes, you did earlier call Zar Town ( Post 110) but at the very end of the Day you said both BB and Fonz were your strongest Town reads.

What changed after 242 that made you at the last minute vote Zar as opposed to either Fonz or BB?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I’ll go ahead and pony up to be the rep of 2A today.

Today’s reps (as indicated in thread are) –

2A – MoI
2B – TheAm
2C – KK (claimed 3 person group)

[MagnaofIllusion]

Zar: I like his D1 play. D2 play so far is more meh, but I'm willing to overlook that until after the scummy judging is over and people start voting me. Reg repeats "look out he loves playing scum," but doesn't currently read him as scum.

Magua

- Llama has asked me to have you ask Reg if he has links that can help illustrate Zar's preference for scum and if so to post them.

[T-Bone]

Nothing much had changed. At that point when I came back the deadline had expired. We didn't come to a consensus in the judging QT, so I went with Zar because I had no idea who everyone else voted for. I had it in my head none of you would vote Fonz, so I decided not to vote him either. I flipped a coin between BB and Zar. I knew I was late so I wanted to try and get a vote in anyway. Also, the Mod replied to my question from earlier, he didn't count my late vote.

[Magua]

Magna, you're making me break my rule about reading your quote stripes. I dun wanna do that.

First things first: Zar links.

Spoiler: Zar Meta

http://mafia.perendination.com/board/in ... st&p=41540
http://mafia.perendination.com/board/in ... st&p=40006

Regfan says the first link has Zar saying to the mod, ""I AM THE SYMP!! YES! YES! YES! YES!"

Second link is a game where Zar busses a partner, strategically lurks in the game thread, but posts a lot in the (daytalk) scum thread. Mod says about Zar, "I have started sending out log in PMs and gave the evils access to the assassin forum. Zar is so excited he already has posted in there"

The problem is that this board requires you to be activated before you can follow those links. I registered, but receive an "Error: Topic does not exist" type message when I follow them because I haven't been approved yet.

Regfan's offering to screenshot these if I can't get activated; he also says that Zar's going to confirm everything that he said anyways.

Now.

Casually active means you’ve popped up to look like you are engaged (asking Deas questions) but are doing it in a way that isn’t related at all to finding scum IMO. And that you are playing it ‘cool’ given that you should have expected to be hit with a barrage of fire and brimstone today.

Town Magua should really have been more proactive trying to actually find scum IMO. You may disagree but it doesn’t serve Town’s long term interest for you to just not make your thoughts and feelings known even if you are eating rope today.

The last sentence's truth hinges on you being Town and quite frankly I have not a lot of faith in that right now.

Meh. Asking questions *is* how I find the scum. As scum, I lurk and try to avoid notice. You can read my scumgames from the wiki; I think only GreyICE has actually played in a game with me where I was actually scum, but I'll tl,dr; my scumgame for you: I suck, and I lurk a lot.

However, several people, you included, should know how I play as town, and should be able to compare/contrast as they will.

(Lulz, self-meta.)

I only have two-town modes: asking questions and raging at people for being stupid. So far, no one in the thread is being stupid, so no rage. Questions it is.

Other stuff: You think that if there's a busser on Ajax it's me. Well, seeing as how I know that's 100% incorrect, I'm not even going to address it as a hypothetical. Your baiting and rephrasing attempts to provoke a reaction are just grating.

I honestly don't give a fuck if you think my reads or statements look non-credible. I'm not particularly worried about being credible, I'm more worried about actually being correct. Strange, I know.

(Sarcasm is a null-tell for me, alignment wise. Lulz self-meta, etc.)

I'd like you to explain how BB's vote looks like bussing at all given the timing of it and the flow of the votes at that stage of the game.

I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

Here's what I'm seeing:

Ajax and my slot are at L-3 -- BBmolla is voting me.

Ajax calls my wagon "too easy," stays off of it. BBmolla says, "I hate that 'too easy'," in response to Ajax, specifically saying it means nothing, implying (again) suspicion of my slot as he defends his position on its wagon, complains *heavily* about Kublai Khan being scum, and then votes Ajax for, as far as I can tell, Ajax's reactions in the Ajax/Quilford scramble.

Then never really mentions Ajax again.

Re: Regfan's BBmolla read. I replace in, I say, "Man, BBmolla feels off," Regfan's all, "That's all alignment-null for BBmolla, he's probably town due to meta." After Ajax flipped, Regfan says there's a severe lack of interaction between Ajax and BBmolla, and starts reconsidering my read, gives me shit for thinking that hitogoroshi was scum, and states that his suspects are Reckoner, theamatuer, Kublai Khan, BBmolla, Zar (in no specific order).

(He says that Reckoner not knowing what Ajax claimed is a towntell, as I said last post, I don't believe that coming from Reckoner, etc.)

Mmmmm. Other stuff. You don't like that Regfan doesn't like you. Man, do you want to take a guess as to the number of fucks I have to give about that?

Zar: He's succinct, which, after wading through your posts I find so pleasing, and he asks questions, which makes me meta-like him because I can see the similarities in our playstyle. His D1 questions seem more open-ended exploratory than his D2, which is why I said D1 > D2. I'm relying on Regfan for Zar-meta, and so far Regfan hasn't found Zar to be super-scummy, just at the tail end of PoE.

[xRECKONERx]

Did you literally flip a coin?

[Magua]

Oh, LLD should also have me-scum-meta from Strategy Mafia and should be able to confirm that I'm terrible as scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Meh. Asking questions *is* how I find the scum. As scum, I lurk and try to avoid notice. You can read my scumgames from the wiki; I think only GreyICE has actually played in a game with me where I was actually scum, but I'll tl,dr; my scumgame for you: I suck, and I lurk a lot.

Cyclical Experiment 2. How quickly you forget ....

Unfortunately all your content was eaten by Tigers but my recollection was not "lazy, lurking Magua".

[Magua]

I forgot about that game. Also, we were scumbuddies in Open 302, which I had *completely* forgotten about, but only illustrates my point more.

Regarding Cyclic: O RLY?

Let's ignore "Replace in, see scumbuddy-Andrius at L-1, do not hammer."

Let's ignore "Let Fourseen/chkflip decide who the scum kill is." (which is verifiable in the Daevori QT as well as I said it in the Dead QT).

Let's ignore the "didn't read game up to my replacement point for over a week" (also confirmable from Daevori QT)

Me getting bussed hard by Muffin isn't really a good tell because Fourseen had outted me so completely, but, is a general tell that I prefer to be bussed and out of the game than be the busser as scum. Lulz self-meta, etc.

[Magua]

EBWOP: Not Open 302, Open 320

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, you're making me break my rule about reading your quote stripes. I dun wanna do that.

Well to quote someone recently – “Man, do you want to take a guess as to the number of fucks I have to give about that?”

Other stuff: You think that if there's a busser on Ajax it's me. Well, seeing as how I know that's 100% incorrect, I'm not even going to address it as a hypothetical. Your baiting and rephrasing attempts to provoke a reaction are just grating.

I honestly don't give a fuck if you think my reads or statements look non-credible. I'm not particularly worried about being credible, I'm more worried about actually being correct. Strange, I know.

Well it is all well and good that you feel ‘baited’. The fact remains that I very much doubt bussing is going on here for a number of reasons. So I’m not going to be bothering looking at those who actually helped move the lynch along until another Mafia is dead. Life's tough ...

Ajax and my slot are at L-3 -- BBmolla is voting me.

Ajax calls my wagon "too easy," stays off of it. BBmolla says, "I hate that 'too easy'," in response to Ajax, specifically saying it means nothing, implying (again) suspicion of my slot as he defends his position on its wagon, complains *heavily* about Kublai Khan being scum, and then votes Ajax for, as far as I can tell, Ajax's reactions in the Ajax/Quilford scramble.

Then never really mentions Ajax again.

So you think that it is in scum’s best interest to abandon the direct counter-wagon to his partner, complain about another player being scum (said player having no votes IIRC and plenty of what I consider stupid Town reads from players), and choose to land his vote on his partner making the wagon even more viable and making your ‘mislynch’ even less likely.

Well suffice it to say I disagree and we can leave it at that.

Re: Regfan's BBmolla read. I replace in, I say, "Man, BBmolla feels off," Regfan's all, "That's all alignment-null for BBmolla, he's probably town due to meta." After Ajax flipped, Regfan says there's a severe lack of interaction between Ajax and BBmolla, and starts reconsidering my read, gives me shit for thinking that hitogoroshi was scum, and states that his suspects are Reckoner, theamatuer, Kublai Khan, BBmolla, Zar (in no specific order).

There’s a severe lack of interaction between MANY slots and Ajax. Including yours. So that evidence is rather whelming.

I forgot about that game. Also, we were scumbuddies in Open 302, which I had *completely* forgotten about, but only illustrates my point more.

Um, whut? You had the third most number of posts in that game. Hardly an example of your ‘lurking’. And given your self-meta of “I hate bussing” the fact that you did everything in your power to avoid voting for him until it was pretty much sealed doesn’t help your case for not being Ajax’s partner IMO.

[theamatuer]

I have something I want to check. Can someone give me an investigative role tonight?
I also play better with a PR so yeah

[Kublai Khan]

I have my doubts about the viability of this ‘Town Tell’. First I really don’t put much stock in Town tells to begin with (call me the anti-Magua). Second KK is experienced enough and quite skilled enough (see his Best Serial Killer Scummie) that faking such a Town-tell is well within his wheel-house.

Hey MagnaofIllusion, Just want to congratulate you. I think you're the first to actually state "Hey, look at his scummie, he's really good and we should watch out for him". Which I think is hilarious considering you just finished lugging around a scummie. How'd that argument ever sound to you?

@KK

– I’m going to ask you directly since you’ve avoided actually stating it despite being asked to numerous times.

What was the scum-slip you claimed you saw from Reck? You need to specifically point out what it was and why you thought it was indicative of a scum-slip. Failure to do so in your next post will be considered a scum-claim.

I'm going to get to it, you don't need to blow a head gasket. BBmolla ignored my post and request of him, so he's probably scum. Explanation will come in the next post.

Actually, fuck that. I hate being ignored. BBmolla missed a chance to come off as townie.

I town-telled in my second post. Because I was a scummie judge this year, I entered the game with a notion that like the real-life Scummies, there are two groups that judge and award the scummies. I knew I was in a group and since it numbered 3 (DeasVail and BBmolla were the other two), I figured that the other judging group would be 3 as well. When hitogoroshi spoke early on about a 4-0 judging score, I posted in my scummie judging QT that I thought he either was in a group of 4 members or he's naively guessing or he's trying to coax info out. DeasVail then pointed out that he thought that everyone was a judge and the title of "1C" meant there were at at least 2 other groups so after a bit of back-and-forth I summarized that for there to be a 4 person group, there would have to be a 3-3-3-4 grouping system.

Then I made 99 where I asked a non-judge to out themselves. I waited a little bit, then in 149 I address hitogoroshi and put forth my theory. He corrects me, and then we move on from there. It was at that point that I skimmed through the game any made my reads post. xRECKONERx's 96 posited that maybe one group had no scum. To me, at that time, it sounded like maybe he pre-emptively knew that there were no non-judges in the game, which sounded like inside information. So I jumped the gun, then later realized that he didn't say that at all and his question would made sense even if he also started the game with my initial misconception. So I tried to drop it because it made me look really stupid.

So there you go. DeasVail and BBmolla will confirm all the QT stuff that shows my train of thought.

Um, what? Yesterday you were REAJHSHH, KK SMASH when I pointed out you were not scum-hunting. In fact you dropping this –

Ah, so you disagree with me and therefore I'm scum. Ok.

little bit when I called you out on suspecting both Quil and TheAm. So at that stage you were presenting your scum-hunting as a solid effort. You also commented that your efforts at uncovering "Scum-Quilford and Scum-TheAm were unappreciated". Now we get this response? Um, no.

No, I was "REAJHSHH KHAN SMASH" over the fact that you might be hiding behind teammate's one-line reads. I'll defend myself against any case because I know I'm town and therefore any case against me is wrong. But it sounded like you were trying to use heresay as evidence against me and I still say that my rage was justified.

This is a terrible false dichotomoy you have set up. My thinking you are scum looking to hop on the popular scum-read from Day 1 isn’t at all a case of either “buddying or defending”. It’s pretty ludicrous to suggest those are the only options.

Here is what you said re Gaoth / Magua Day 1 –

Yup … that’s it. That is the extent of your posting regarding the slot Day 1 as it pertains to his alignment. You basically fence-sit on him here in saying he’s a Null read. You do, however, find those people on his wagon to be scummy for it as shown in these quotes –

Right, that's my point. I don't understand your charge at all. Goath made a single post yesterday and got two votes with little explanation beyond "it feels wrong". Now I appreciate you going through the trouble of pulling linkless quotes out of context simply because they mention the word "Goath". My null read comes from the fact that Goath had made

one single post

. Since that one post didn't contain the words "I am Scum", I was curious as to how some players felt they could get away with calling it scummy enough for a vote and not commenting much on anything else at all (such as BBmolla at the time of my post you quoted, Zar had some other reads but he had just goaded BBmolla into voting Goath).

Magua’s flip as Town or Scum really don’t look good for you either way to be honest. I may have some confirmation bias going on here since you are scummy as fuck IMO but him flipping Town really strengthens my “KK was playing to set up attacks based on his inside knowledge that non-performer Gaoth was an ‘easy’ Town target” feelings. Meanwhile a scum flip from Magua means your “epiphany” overnight is just scrambling to distance yourself from your second teammate going down and that your more or less refusal to call either one anything (either Town or Scum) in Post 153 is another nail in the coffin.

You can't have it both ways. You can't tell hitogoroshi that I'm skilled and experienced and then accuse me of being so bush-league that I would scramble to try to bus a scum-partner for town cred. You are admitting that you have some confirmation bias simply because even you realize that pushing a Magua lynch makes zero sense as a scum ploy. No matter what Magus flips, that would only buy me a day, max.

See this … this makes me chuckle. You are basically stating that “Well it developed honestly and naturally as I read overnight. Yeah, there is no evidence that it happened that way you will just have to trust me”. No, I don’t have to trust you at all.

Well, what the fuck are you expecting? I would fly you over and let you Vulcan mind-meld me to know I say saying the truth except 1) I'm not going to cover your travel expenses and 2) there's no such thing as a Vulcan mind-meld. There's no evidence of my re-reading the game beyond me saying that I re-read the game. And you're choosing to not believe me. So that's pretty much it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I have something I want to check. Can someone give me an investigative role tonight?
I also play better with a PR so yeah

Are you trying to do everything in your power to make the people who don't think you are scum consider your death a bonus even when considering the Team Mafia points system?

Seriously ...

Stop pretending you can't play without a crutch.

Opinions on Zar / KK / Magua given the flips --- go!

[theamatuer]

Zar- scum
KK - null-scum
Magua- town

[Kublai Khan]

Hey theamatuer,

Could you switch games with Bud Bidderskins or mykonian? You can do so since it's currently day 2 and your team hasn't made it's one switch. I'd like to play a game with someone who actually reads the game and can intelligently convey his thoughts.

Thanks,

- Kublai Khan

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey MagnaofIllusion, Just want to congratulate you. I think you're the first to actually state "Hey, look at his scummie, he's really good and we should watch out for him". Which I think is hilarious considering you just finished lugging around a scummie. How'd that argument ever sound to you?

Well considering I think I’m a better than average player I got used to it. And I think my having been on the receiving end of copious amounts of Burden of Proficiency arguments gives me a bit of freedom to use them on players who likewise deserve them. Life’s a bitch when you have the hardware that says “I’m good at this game, especially as Non-Town”, huh?

So there you go. DeasVail and BBmolla will confirm all the QT stuff that shows my train of thought.

Well let’s addrss this. You ignored the calls for explanation when both BB and Deas could confirm said train of thought Day 1 (or, from a KK Town perspective, get caught lying about it as scum barring both of them being scum) and still didn’t address it until I was annoying about it even though your post makes it seem like a pretty easy thing to explain?

What about that is Pro-Town at all? And the answer of “I’m scum hunting BB for his reaction” really isn’t meaningful to me since I think he’s Town and you are scum.

No, I was "REAJHSHH KHAN SMASH" over the fact that you might be hiding behind teammate's one-line reads. I'll defend myself against any case because I know I'm town and therefore any case against me is wrong. But it sounded like you were trying to use heresay as evidence against me and I still say that my rage was justified.

Nice deflection from the point I was making. Yes, I’m directly calling it a deflection. You haven’t addressed the fact that Day 1 you were bemoaning that your valid scum-hunting was being ignored. Yet at the start of today suddenly you claim to be doing a half-assed job Day 1. Those lines of thought do not coincide and the flip smells like scum poised at rep-rebuilding.

Right, that's my point. I don't understand your charge at all. Goath made a single post yesterday and got two votes with little explanation beyond "it feels wrong".

Now I appreciate you going through the trouble of pulling linkless quotes out of context simply because they mention the word "Goath".

My null read comes from the fact that Goath had made one single post. Since that one post didn't contain the words "I am Scum", I was curious as to how some players felt they could get away with calling it scummy enough for a vote and not commenting much on anything else at all (such as BBmolla at the time of my post you quoted, Zar had some other reads but he had just goaded BBmolla into voting Goath).

Things I want to point out about this response –

1. The bolded is a typical scum undermining technique. You don’t want to come out and directly say my method was scummy but you attack me for making ‘linkless’ quotes that are ‘out of context’. Are you suggesting that my pulling quotes which include the post number in the quote box without a direct link (because I form not using multi-quote but copy / paste into Word) is scummy? Are you suggesting those quotes don’t come from the posts I listed? Are you suggesting that when I am discussing your complete lack of read on Gaoth / Magua the entire day that finding your ONLY direct mention of him vis-a-vie alignment isn’t in context of our discussion? Please be specific about what is wrong with my point there. You didn’t include any reads on Magua either after he started posting.
2. You don’t understand how I can find your read on the Gaoth / Magua slot (null at only mention) which mimicked your Ajax read (saying he commited a bad post but otherwise you have no problems with his slot, which reads pretty much as Null to me) might be a sign that you were treating both your potential scum-buddies the same?

You can't have it both ways. You can't tell hitogoroshi that I'm skilled and experienced and then accuse me of being so bush-league that I would scramble to try to bus a scum-partner for town cred. You are admitting that you have some confirmation bias simply because even you realize that pushing a Magua lynch makes zero sense as a scum ploy. No matter what Magus flips, that would only buy me a day, max.

Yup, I have confirmation bias. I fully concede that I was making an argument in that vein their. I think you are scum. Honestly at this stage I’d rather hang you than him for a number of reasons.

Well, what the fuck are you expecting? I would fly you over and let you Vulcan mind-meld me to know I say saying the truth except 1) I'm not going to cover your travel expenses and 2) there's no such thing as a Vulcan mind-meld. There's no evidence of my re-reading the game beyond me saying that I re-read the game. And you're choosing to not believe me. So that's pretty much it.

If you are outright saying that no-one should believe your response (given no-one could be 'inside your head') what was the purpose of giving it other than to include trendy MS buzzwords like “organic” as a means to present a Town position?

Hey theamatuer,

Could you switch games with Bud Bidderskins or mykonian? You can do so since it's currently day 2 and your team hasn't made it's one switch. I'd like to play a game with someone who actually reads the game and can intelligently convey his thoughts.

Thanks,

- Kublai Khan

Translation – can you switch with a teammate who might not see me as scum? Very few aside from MoI suspect me and when he’s Nightkilled I’ll have an easier time coasting.

[MagnaofIllusion]

For those playing at home the other part of Post 471 that doesn't make sense from a Town perspective?

Why is KK asking TheAm to flip out with a 'more competent' member of his team if he still thinks he is scum? And he still is keeping that option open with today's "Is he dumb or scum" stance.

If KK is Town who still harbors some illusion that TheAm is actually scum why bring in a better player who likely will get a 'replacement halo' if they play in a manner that even resembles Town in the slightest given the general consensus that TheAm was a last ditch counter-wagon to Ajax-scum? Makes little sense other than frustration that TheAm is not playing the game 'the right way'. And at this stage hanging scum should be a bigger concern.

[Kublai Khan]

Well let’s addrss this. You ignored the calls for explanation when both BB and Deas could confirm said train of thought Day 1 (or, from a KK Town perspective, get caught lying about it as scum barring both of them being scum) and still didn’t address it until I was annoying about it even though your post makes it seem like a pretty easy thing to explain?

What about that is Pro-Town at all? And the answer of “I’m scum hunting BB for his reaction” really isn’t meaningful to me since I think he’s Town and you are scum.

Translation: I'm going to ask you questions, but I'm going to let you know that any answer other than "Ok, you got me, I'm scum" will be dismissed as meaningless to me.

I'm sorry that you don't want to hear that your BBmolla read is wrong, but in all likelihood it is. Both DeasVail and BBmolla knew that my train of thinking was town as fuck. DeasVail spoke up for me and BBmolla didn't. My conclusion is that BBmolla isn't as towny as you want to believe.

Nice deflection from the point I was making. Yes, I’m directly calling it a deflection. You haven’t addressed the fact that Day 1 you were bemoaning that your valid scum-hunting was being ignored. Yet at the start of today suddenly you claim to be doing a half-assed job Day 1. Those lines of thought do not coincide and the flip smells like scum poised at rep-rebuilding.

Are you serious? Even my bemoaning was half-assed yesterday. You've played with me before. When I'm "in" a game, I'm in it and I make my keyboard cry for mercy to prove my points, no matter the alignment.

Things I want to point out about this response –

1. The bolded is a typical scum undermining technique. You don’t want to come out and directly say my method was scummy but you attack me for making ‘linkless’ quotes that are ‘out of context’. Are you suggesting that my pulling quotes which include the post number in the quote box without a direct link (because I form not using multi-quote but copy / paste into Word) is scummy? Are you suggesting those quotes don’t come from the posts I listed? Are you suggesting that when I am discussing your complete lack of read on Gaoth / Magua the entire day that finding your ONLY direct mention of him vis-a-vie alignment isn’t in context of our discussion? Please be specific about what is wrong with my point there. You didn’t include any reads on Magua either after he started posting.

*pinches nose* For fuck's sake. This is the bullshit byproduct of confirmation bias, MagnaofIllusion. You know that. Just like if I had a scum-read on you, I'd be calling your use of loaded questions a "typical scum technique". You read my town-tell previous to this and could find nothing wrong with it (other than timing, apparently) so now you're just trying to re-convince yourself of your bias. I'm going to take a moment to ask if you really want to delve into the digression of how individual argument techniques indicate anything of alignment? If you do, I'll respond to this. If you accuse me of "avoiding" discussion it, then we'll discuss it to death except I'll spoiler it so we're not drowning out the whole game because I'm not afraid of going toe-to-toe with a waller.

2. You don’t understand how I can find your read on the Gaoth / Magua slot (null at only mention) which mimicked your Ajax read (saying he commited a bad post but otherwise you have no problems with his slot, which reads pretty much as Null to me) might be a sign that you were treating both your potential scum-buddies the same?

Do you realize that you're telling me that you've calculated the area of a scum triangle with only one known point (Captain Ajax)?

Yup, I have confirmation bias. I fully concede that I was making an argument in that vein their. I think you are scum. Honestly at this stage I’d rather hang you than him for a number of reasons.

If you are outright saying that no-one should believe your response (given no-one could be 'inside your head') what was the purpose of giving it other than to include trendy MS buzzwords like “organic” as a means to present a Town position?

Translation – can you switch with a teammate who might not see me as scum? Very few aside from MoI suspect me and when he’s Nightkilled I’ll have an easier time coasting.

The rest of this is just posturing and laziness. Re-generate your read on my given the new insight you've gained.

P.Edit - 473 - Really? Okay, let's put it out to a vote on who wants theamatuer to stay in the game.