TM2012 - Closed Normal(Over!)

[Porochaz]

So lets talk about MoS.

My issue with MoS for the PoE is that the basis for it comes out of his ass. I mean look at the way he does it. He arbitrarily chooses numbers for the wagons, he randomly pulls name out of the list which again are random, but the fact is this "evidence" he is talking about, well... doesn't really exist. Or at least doesn't from his p.o.v. I mean I find all three of them neutral to town (although cooldogs attempts to get me to put a vote on uber is amusing) but do I think that there is "evidence" that allows them to be ruled out. No, definitely not. There is no cop or tracker results to the contrary.

Now I slightly understand the thinking behind the PoE comments, but suggesting we automatically discount people for the next few game days is not a town thing to say. He is actively trying to kill scumhunting. Furthermore, once again Mos isn't playing to his meta. MoS is a good player but he is a traditional player, he makes cases which usually are airtight. Its why he has been nominated for awards.

Look at his play this game, he lurked with little to no scumhunting day 1, then on day 2 decides to arbitrarily eliminate a few players and tries to structure the next few days worth of play, yet not only has no evidence for any of this but despite now trying to lead the town, he has failed to make any impact at all on the game.

Put it this way, does anyone actually know any of his opinions on any player?

Pere's post is a single thing thats wrong, MoS's play thus far has not been great throughout the whole game.

vote MoS

[iamausername]

Hey Prozac, do you happen to know why tajo dropped out of your team? Just curious.

[Mastermind of Sin]

[CooLDoG]

Also, I'd quickly like to point out that CD's espoused position makes no sense.

UberNinja is scummier than Haylen because he pushed Haylen strongly, and Haylen flipped town.

Yet if DeltaWave is town, then UberNinja would have no motive to push Haylen strongly (since he knew Haylen would flip town). Therefore the 'UberNinja got scummier' presupposes a DeltaWave scum flip... which hasn't happened yet.

So CooLDoG basically wants to lynch UN for being scum with a player who is still alive.

P.S. #936 still happened

HUH? Let me explain this to you in very very simple terms:

I'm okay with a UN or DW lynch.
I'm voting UN over DW right now becuase UN pushed the haylen wagon more and worse then DW.
Blow me.

[GreyICE]

But if DW is town, then is pushing a town wagon hard over... a town wagon a scumtell, CD?

[UberNinja]

Why not GreyICE then CoolDog? He pushed the Haylen wagon just as much or more than I did. You are so full of shit it's almost funny.
Not to mention, just because someone pushes a wagon doesn't mean they're scum. Town push mislynches too, hurrr durrrr.... Stupid.

Jason's posts are actually really good. Capt Murasa looks much worse to me now. But now that I see how hypocritical he's being, Captain Murasa can go the way of the dodo.

I'm still not 100% on board with PeregrineV being scum, but he looks pretty bad in my eyes too.

Porochaz's post on MoS is also interesting to note. I'll look into that as well.

[GreyICE]

UN are you scum?

[UberNinja]

No. Absolutely not.

I was more pissed at myself when Haylen flipped town than I was pissed at zoraster when he penalized me for "talking about ongoing games", which was pretty fucking stupid.

[Mastermind of Sin]

UN are you scum?

Is it just me, or does every consecutive post by UN make him look even worse? -_-

[Mastermind of Sin]

Oh, and anyone who takes even the most cursory glance at my ISO can see the Prozac's case is terribly full of wholes and completely unsupported. That's just about all that needs to be said.

[GreyICE]

Prozac's case is terribly full of wholes

Oh MoS, never change.

In other news, what's your opinion on Prozac?

[CooLDoG]

But if DW is town, then is pushing a town wagon hard over... a town wagon a scumtell, CD?

Let's take DW out of the equation of a second here. Look at what UB does during d1. Is that not scummy? That's why I'm voting him.

Now, I personally think that UN's push for the haylen deserves to be voted over DW for right now. If I was 100% sure that haylen was town, which I wasn't, then I would have kept my vote on UN d1.

Question to you Grey: Why do you feel the need to chainsaw for UN right now? Why do you even care which of my top two scum reads I'm voting for right now? Why were you and UN buddy buddy d1? I also wonder why you haven't actually laid out a good case on me yet. The only case you have is "ohh, that one post back in d1 when he was catching up wasn't a case." Your arguments don't have any impacts, that is to say, they don't actually tell me why I am scum. They simply state, "ohh he did this." I ask, and have been asking, so what?

Any way, I don't feel like yyou are a viable lynch today. However, if UN flips scum, you are going to die. If UN flips scum I will put my vote on you and it will not change.


Ohh, and by the way, the argument that "you couldn't read me in this game we played in over a year ago" and "your buds can't read me because they haven't played with me" is not a reason for you to be town. Heck, it isn't even a reason for you to be "not scum", its just a reason that let's you cop out of everything people bring up against you.

So, off to bed for me. Even though it is early I am quite tired. I will be able to post more about other people tomorrow. Sorry I couldn't get into anything other than Grey's points right now.

[CooLDoG]

I'm interested in seeing what deltawave has to say. He had better post. And it had better be more than just a defense. I want actual proactive content.

@DW, how 'bout your glork read?

[GreyICE]

Let's take DW out of the equation of a second here. Look at what UB does during d1. Is that not scummy? That's why I'm voting him.

Now, I personally think that UN's push for the haylen deserves to be voted over DW for right now. If I was 100% sure that haylen was town, which I wasn't, then I would have kept my vote on UN d1.

Question to you Grey: Why do you feel the need to chainsaw for UN right now? Why do you even care which of my top two scum reads I'm voting for right now? Why were you and UN buddy buddy d1? I also wonder why you haven't actually laid out a good case on me yet. The only case you have is "ohh, that one post back in d1 when he was catching up wasn't a case." Your arguments don't have any impacts, that is to say, they don't actually tell me why I am scum. They simply state, "ohh he did this." I ask, and have been asking, so what?

Any way, I don't feel like yyou are a viable lynch today. However, if UN flips scum, you are going to die. If UN flips scum I will put my vote on you and it will not change.


Ohh, and by the way, the argument that "you couldn't read me in this game we played in over a year ago" and "your buds can't read me because they haven't played with me" is not a reason for you to be town. Heck, it isn't even a reason for you to be "not scum", its just a reason that let's you cop out of everything people bring up against you.

So, off to bed for me. Even though it is early I am quite tired. I will be able to post more about other people tomorrow. Sorry I couldn't get into anything other than Grey's points right now.

Oh CooLDoG.

I'm not going to vote for either of them.

I'm deciding whether to vote for you.

Understanding your reasoning, such as it is, is absolutely instrumental in determining whether or not that happens.

[hasdgfas]

Uberninja(2): CooLDoG, Captain Murasa
PeregrineV(1): GreyICE
Captain Murasa(1): jasonT1981
Mastermind of Sin(1): Porochaz

Not Voting: iamausername, PeregrineV, UberNinja, Slaxx, DeltaWave, Mastermind of Sin
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is June 2nd.

[UberNinja]

Why do you think everyone you think is scum is scum?

Still waiting on this, Capt. Murasa.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Prozac's case is terribly full of wholes

Oh MoS, never change.

In other news, what's your opinion on Prozac?

That's what I get for typing a post while not having slept for over 36 hours. -_-

As far as Prozac goes, I'm undecided. The spiteful player in me wants to go after him for being an idiot and actually thinking I might be scum, but the way he went about it strikes me as genuine, even if he clearly didn't think it through

at all

...Captain Murasa seems more likely scum out of that twosome, and I'd definitely be ok pursuing that today.

[UberNinja]

It has struck me recently that the more a player says "clearly", the more likely they are to subscribe to trains of thought that nobody else really follows.

So there's that. Waiting on Capt. Murasa though.

[Captain Murasa]

Geez, be patient. I was at school :P
Anyway, I'mma do that stuf very soon. Also jasons case is very situational and really doesn't work if you consider a lot of the circumstances. UberNinja said scummy stuff at the start of D2, even if he's been a town read all game so far I still can't just brush it aside. I'll respond to the rest of his case soon.

[Captain Murasa]

I still don't get why there is a wagon on Glork in the first place. I still think Glork is one of the towniest people in this game.

And who died in the night? the one person you have been calling town...

And what is this supposed to be implying?

I'm not trying to be a huge part of the Glork vs Delta fight. I'm just arguing with Delta and yelling at people for wagoning obvtown Glork. I'm not a part of their fight together.

ducking and avoiding... noted.

I prefer not to get into large tunnel fights like they did. Sorry if that makes me scum.

Posting for the sake of posting. Nothing anyone has said lately has changed my mind about my reads.
Meh, I'm bored right now. Someone ask me some questions.

Scum, complete scum...posting full of nothing, just posting to make a post without giving any actual insight or reasons to anything going on... LYNCH THIS WITRH FIRE

I didn't have any insight. Is that a problem? I'm sure as scum I would have faked some content to try and look towny. Plus I would have given content had you asked some questions.

The following exchange looks forced:

If I vote UN, will you guys help me wagon DeltaWave tomorrow?

Probably. Depends on if he's still scummy. It certainly looks possible at this point, though.

Okey dokey.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: UberNinja

Especially after Day 1 defending of UN

Why is it forced? What meks you think that?

I think Haylen is town and why are people voting her?
UberNinja is null-town right now, nullness is probably due to the fact that he took forever to finally provide an explanation and answer to Haylen's question, otherwise he's been towny to me.
Glork is town for actively joining into the discussion and not laying low behind the Haylen/UN dialogue.

and here

CoolDog's big post about me + vote is completely disingenuous and isn't saying anything new.

He's parroting and hoping that nobody notices he's scum with Haylen. Too bad, bro. You're scum.

Just because other pepole might have made the argument before doesn't invalidate the argument.

I like this, it really sounds like it came from town.

Jump on the wagon baby jump on... only suspects him when a wagon is forming... LYNCXH CAPT WITH FIRE! SHE IS SCUM

Circumstancial attack. Did you ever consider me getting on the UN wagon because I think he's scum?

I actually think 1 scum on the wagon. I think there were some scum advocating the Haylen lynch without being on it in the first place. She was a perfect mislynch driven by obnoxious and loud town (*cough*GreyICE*cough*) which meant it was perfect for scum to advocate it without being seen.

I still think Jason is scum though. Jason DeltaWave and UN are my current picks for scum right now.

you had UN as town all D1... now a wagon on him d2 he is scum?

WHATS UP WITH THAT?

Are my reads not allowed to change?

It's not making excuses for anyone.

Also I may not be able to remember exactly why they are scum but I do know it was for a good reason.

Translaion - I said something, cant remember because I am actually scum and dont nered to believe my cases on others.

Wrong interpretation. You're twisting my words. I'm just a silly forgetful town.

PereV
Capt
DeltaWave (where is he?)

Explain why PereV.

[Captain Murasa]

@UN: You are scum because you had a terribly scummy D2 first post. It's full of speculation which you aren't doing anything with.
Jason is scum because he's tunneling on me a lot. Plus he's using lots of circumstancial evidence and is twisting my words.
Delta is scum because gut combined with lots of discrediting of the attacks on him and also lurking.

[CooLDoG]

Why not GreyICE then CoolDog? He pushed the Haylen wagon just as much or more than I did. You are so full of shit it's almost funny.
Not to mention, just because someone pushes a wagon doesn't mean they're scum. Town push mislynches too, hurrr durrrr.... Stupid.

Jason's posts are actually really good. Capt Murasa looks much worse to me now. But now that I see how hypocritical he's being, Captain Murasa can go the way of the dodo.

I'm still not 100% on board with PeregrineV being scum, but he looks pretty bad in my eyes too.

Porochaz's post on MoS is also interesting to note. I'll look into that as well.

Yeah, I would agree with you if grey sheeped a town player and contributed nothing to the wagon. The thing is UN, grey basically created the haylen wagon. He made the case for the haylen wagon. The haylen wagon was his baby all day long from start to finish. Every post that haylen made, he added to the case for haylen to be lynched. That's active scumhunting. One could say that it is masterful scum posting, but we really don't need to get into that on D2.

You, on the the other hand, did basically nothing to push the haylen wagon. You sheeped out on grey ice all of day 1. You contributed nothing to discussion all day long. You did not have any unique points. And, quite frankly, the haylen wagon was an easy lynch to push because people like grey did all the work for you. You are scummy for not activly scum hunting. You are scummy for flying right behind grey ice the whole time. And, you are scummy because you do not answer things brought up against you, hopping that they go away...

Yeah, you still have a lot of stuff to answer to. In fact, you actually hven't answered to my first post of the day... Also, stop being grey's butt boy please.

No. Absolutely not.

I was more pissed at myself when Haylen flipped town than I was pissed at zoraster when he penalized me for "talking about ongoing games", which was pretty fucking stupid.

yeah, sure.

UN are you scum?

Is it just me, or does every consecutive post by UN make him look even worse? -_-

Join the club.

Oh CooLDoG.

I'm not going to vote for either of them.

I'm deciding whether to vote for you.

Understanding your reasoning, such as it is, is absolutely instrumental in determining whether or not that happens.

Why are DW and UN town. I want reasons now. Affirmative town reasons. Not "not scum" scum reasons.

@UN: You are scum because you had a terribly scummy D2 first post. It's full of speculation which you aren't doing anything with.
Jason is scum because he's tunneling on me a lot. Plus he's using lots of circumstancial evidence and is twisting my words.
Delta is scum because gut combined with lots of discrediting of the attacks on him and also lurking.

No. UN is not scum only because of that D2 post.

Damn you grey ICE. You are making me have second thoughts about this UN wagon.
Also, damn you jason for making me think murasa is scum and wanting to vote for her.

@Cpatain, so one post canceled out a whole town read thing that you had d1?

[Captain Murasa]

That post was really bad. Plus he wasn't a strong town read D1 either.

[DeltaWave]

CooLDoG: Ended the day voting DeltaWave, with a big long case. Starts day 2... voting UberNinja. Has forgotten about DeltaWave. Que que? Does not compute.

It's probably easier to mislynch UN today that it is to mislynch me. Haylen was after me for self-preservation reasons and Glork ultimately decided to move away from my wagon at the last moment, so he probably wouldn't have voted me today. This means that a mislynch on me will be very difficult today, but a mislynch on UN is possible. Simple strategy.

The back and forth between DeltaWave and Glork must have made me register Delta's vote as on Glork at the time. Especially considering Glork was also voting Delta.

This means you are subconsciously chalking Delta up to being an OMGUS player when in fact he wasn't being that. He was voting who he thought was scum instead of who was voting him at pretty much all times, IIRC.

Frankly I'm pretty unnerved with the seeming confidence with which you simply "brush off" evidence that contradicts your reasoning, and push on with your own agenda anyway.

+1

CooLDoG - you wrote a whole big case on DeltaWave yesterday, and were very, very adamant about him being scum. Today you open immediately with a UN vote. What happened?

Haylen flipped town is what happened, grey. The way Uber pushed for haylen's lynch gains him a lot of scum points in my book. I still highly suspect DW and will lynch either of them. But with the flips, I have to vote for UN.

Also, don't trust what grey ICE says, look where following him led us yesterday... A mislynch that scum easily pushed (for those who aren't paying attention). Follow what the flips say and how people pushed the haylen lynch.

@grey, Gotta ask you this. Several times d1 you said I was scum. You have never ever explained why. Based off of my D1 actions

ONLY

, why am I scummy?

@poro, vote your buddy now.

CD, you are the stereotypical scum that stays off the lead wagon when they know it's town, and then claims on the next day that everyone should follow you.

I'm interested in seeing what deltawave has to say. He had better post. And it had better be more than just a defense.

I want actual proactive content.

@DW, how 'bout your glork read?

The bolded part is absolutely hilarious coming from you.

You're talking like you know people's alignments. First with the "I knew Haylen was town all along listen to me guys!" type of stuff, now with this Glork comment too. Glork did some scummy shit by not answering my question regarding his inconsistency. He earned the scumread that I had on him.

I'm going to call what's going on here: CD abandoned his case on me (until GI reminded him) because a mislynch on me would be too hard without Haylen and because Glork jumped ship off my wagon and prob. wouldn't have voted for me anyway. CD knew, by virtue of his alignment, that Haylen was town and is now trying to use that to take town cred.

"He had better post"... LOL. You think you're going to take charge now because Haylen flipped town? Just, lol.

VOTE: Cooldog

[CooLDoG]

huh? Didn't I say multipul times that you and UN are my two best scum reads? Yeah, I guess I did. Where have I abandoned that read?
How can I push the most popular wagon when I am the one who started the wagon? And only two people are on "my" UN wagon? How is that a popular wagon by any definition of the term?

Great job on your glork read man. Why were you so wrong? Why are you back tracking from it now? Why do you feel the need to dissociated yourself from your glork read?

DW is still scum. UN is scum. Vote one of the two. Preferably UN for now. At least DW makes it look like he is posting content.