TM2012 - Closed Normal(Over!)

[jasonT1981]

Sorry, quoted 200 twice. but still LIES!! You had Cooldog as town Day 1....and only jumped on him d2 when a wagon formed.

so how was that NOT a strong town read yet enough to declare him town ALL day 1!!!!!

[GreyICE]

Okay, one of the very first games not eaten by tigers.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3232919


Subject: Mini 1203: Set's Speed Mafia - Game Over.

Vote Count

rblinker123 (7)

- Spyrex, Does Bo Know, Noramp, Beck, Toast, Ranmaru, YankCane151

Beck (1)

-

Pine

Cyberbob (1)

- TwistedSpoon

YankCane151 (1)

: SensFan

Not Voting

:

MrZepher, Cyberbob,

rblinker123

That's a HAMMER.

Death scene impending.

If you follow the voting, no one else really emerged with a viable wagon, so the scum had little motive to try and push through a town lynch. In response, they stayed off the wagon, and there you go. All green town wagon, day 1, no self-hammer.

Stop assuming scum work hard to get town lynched. Especially when the town is hugely scummy it's usually the scum who don't want to commit.

[UberNinja]

Jason, I'm not convinced Captain Murasa is scum. I'm willing to give him a chance to redeem himself.

Porochaz on the other hand. GreyICE makes a

very good point

, which I myself missed. So here I am, sheeping GreyICE again.

Vote: Porochaz

[CooLDoG]

DW is still scum. UN is scum. Vote one of the two. Preferably UN for now. At least DW makes it look like he is posting content.

1. Posting "content" does

not

make one town

2. I have about four times the posts you do, buddy

Guys. I do not have to say anything about this post. Can you guys shoot me. Like, right now.

[DeltaWave]

Dayvig:

CoolDog

[UberNinja]

Holy shit. Please let that be real.

[UberNinja]

Ah damn, I didn't see CoolDog's post before it.

Prob not real then eh.

[DeltaWave]

If it was real I would have done it a long time ago

[CooLDoG]

Hi Iam.

That's exactly what MoI believes. The fact that Delta came to the same conclusion is a very strong town tell.

But the real question here is what are you doing? Yesterday you were convinced Haylen was scum. You clearly saw very good evidence that she was scum.

If Delta is town, does it make more sense that scum were:

A) Strongly pushing a lynch on a town player in order to reduce their credibility for day 2 and make it harder to switch to the other town player?
B) Weakly pushing neither wagon, and allowing the deadline to do their work for them, then trying to capitalize by discrediting as many townies as possible, and hopefully getting another town wagon on the other player later in the game?

Why are you defending DW? Serious question.

Yesterday, we lynched a town player. Today, DeltaWave, who voted for that town player, is voting someone who didn't vote that town player, for not voting for that town player.

YEP (I am scum guys)

fixed for accuracy and I made it more factual.

iam, go back and read again. delta is not a good lynch AT ALL.

and yes, me defending delta and saying his lynch is stupid WHEN WE BOTH LOOK BAD sure is some pretty fantastic evidence that we are scum together... NOT

Yeah, it is. Seeing as you sat on your ass and ate popcorn while you pushed the haylen wagon, and now you are defending people with no evidence, yeah it does sorta look bad. The thing is that you don't really tell us why DW is town. "DW wagon is stupid, and you are a retard for pushing it" is not an actual reason. Just like when almost every one of your d1 posts were "hay guys, let's lynch haylen all ready!!!!!111!!!!!"

That much of the defense of Haylen yesterday, particularly the weak and lame defenses that just said 'I don't really want to vote here' instead of 'she's definitely town, get your votes off her' were from scum.

Some scum were probably doing that, yeah. *cough* Prozac *cough*

But a D1 town lynch does not happen without

any scum involvement at all.

There were legitimate reasons for town players to think Haylen was scum yesterday, obviously. There were also scum exploiting these incorrect town players to net themselves an easy mislynch.

And looking at the players who voted for Haylen, I can follow the town thought processes behind your vote and Slaxx's vote very well. PeregrineV's to a lesser extent. I have a much harder time seeing the town thought processes behind DeltaWave's vote, or UberNinja's vote. Ergo, I conclude that one or both of them is probably scum.

If I produced an example of a day 1 town lynch with zero scum on the wagon, would you please vote OBVIOUS SCUM POROCHAZ?

No you must provide me with 20 out of a hundred games for me to do it. One game out of the thousand games played on MS is

NOT

statistically valid at all in any sense of the word. I would say at least 90-95% of games have at least one scum on a town d1 mislynch, one game isn't going to change that. Another example of bullshit meta arguments that people really shouldn't use, "I saw it in this one game, so it MUST, without any reservations, in fact, be universally true for every single game that will ever be played on MS ever."

I'm going to say this again so that there's no confusion: I'm not voting CD because he wasn't on the Haylen wagon. I'm voting CD because he stayed off the Haylen wagon and is now trying to cash in MAD TOWN CRED with this "I told you so, now everyone follow me" attitude. D1, he kept himself off the main wagon, did jack shit other than to make a bunch of useless comments, and now is trying to be THE SUPER TOWN CRUSADER because he didn't vote for Haylen. A vote on Cooldog is a vote for justice.

You know, it would be fun to do this. In fact, I'm going to do it right now to you DW:

I was right about haylen.
You were 100% wrong about haylen.
I was right about glork.
You were 100% wrong about glork.
thus, you must suck my balls.

Actually, that wasn't even asking for town cred. I haven't used the fact that I PERSONALLY wasn't on the haylen wagon as leverage. I have used the fact that other people pushed the haylen wagon very scummy as leverage. There is a difference guys.

Not to just quote something and say "I agree" but this is how I stand on UN/DW:

It's more if UN flips scum than town, UN flipping town means I need to re-evaluate this game, possibly look at the people trying to lead town, like Mos and Grey. It wouldn't mean Delta was in the clear, to answer your question, but my reasons for having suspicion on DW would not make sense if UN was town. Although not as apparent, the love between UN and Delta isn't one way. I can't see either of them as scum trying to buddy to a town player, partly due to their experience but mostly due to the desperation in UN's posts combined with Delta's apparent lack of concern that there is someone who is doing the defending for him.

If it was real I would have done it a long time ago

And then you would have been wrong 3 times.

@jason, What do you think of a mersa/UN/DW scum team?

[DeltaWave]

You know, it would be fun to do this. In fact, I'm going to do it right now to you DW:

I was right about haylen.
You were 100% wrong about haylen.
I was right about glork.
You were 100% wrong about glork.
thus, you must suck my balls.

If it was real I would have done it a long time ago

And then you would have been wrong 3 times.

@jason, What do you think of a mersa/UN/DW scum team?

You know what the absolute best part of this post is? The language that you're using presumes that I'm town. If you

really

thought I was scum, then there's no way I could have been

wrong

about Haylen, since scum would know the alignment of other players. You call me scum in the last line of your post, but your analysis presumes that I'm town who was wrong about my reads. That's because you're fully aware that I'm town.

You just scumslipped hard.

[GreyICE]

Why are you defending DW? Serious question.

Because I have a town read on him, and I don't want him lynched.

[CooLDoG]

Why are you defending DW? Serious question.

Because I have a town read on him, and I don't want him lynched.

fair.

@DW, yeah. Sure. Be disillusioned. Disillusioned scum could be fun. You know what I mean, and instead of addressing the argument you cop out with technicalities...

I wish I had two votes. I would so split vote between DW/UN right now.

[Mastermind of Sin]

It saddens me to say this, but Delta is probably not scum. That said, this game has made it obvious that he has no fucking clue what he's talking about. Still, his posts the last few pages have seemed genuine to me.

Vote: iamausername

I really think we've got scum here. I think D1 was predominantly run by idiot town going after each other (Haylen, GI, Delta, etc...Glork wasn't an idiot but he was chasing the idiots for being dumbasses rather than for being scummy). iamausername's post where he voted Delta really set off alarm bells in my head, especially since Delta's most recent posts before that had made me LESS sure of him being scum, not the other way around.

Also, Prozac: Just because you modded my ONE exceptionally good town game in the last two years doesn't mean you know my town meta. In fact, I was a replacement in that game, so you have no basis for comparison toward my Day 1 play (which is relatively consistent across the site).

[GreyICE]

Hey MoS

Put your post in context with your last post, below.


Acceptable context includes "I'm scum with Prozac and he sucks at distancing."

Prozac's case is terribly full of wholes

Oh MoS, never change.

In other news, what's your opinion on Prozac?

That's what I get for typing a post while not having slept for over 36 hours. -_-

As far as Prozac goes, I'm undecided. The spiteful player in me wants to go after him for being an idiot and actually thinking I might be scum, but the way he went about it strikes me as genuine, even if he clearly didn't think it through

at all

...Captain Murasa seems more likely scum out of that twosome, and I'd definitely be ok pursuing that today.

[UberNinja]

Cooldog what do you think of poro/mos?

[hasdgfas]

Uberninja(3): CooLDoG, Captain Murasa, Porochaz
Porochaz(2): GreyICE, UberNinja
Captain Murasa(1): jasonT1981
CooLDoG(1): DeltaWave
DeltaWave(1): iamausername
iamausername(1): Mastermind of Sin

Not Voting: PeregrineV, Slaxx
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is June 2nd.

[UberNinja]

mos, iama, jason, delta: please come over to the porochaz wagon.

delta: cooldog is probably just stupid town.
jason: captain murasa seems too stupid to be scum.
mos: your wagon is going nowhere, vote porochaz
iama: same as mos, delta is town. vote porochaz

[Mastermind of Sin]

Hey MoS

Put your post in context with your last post, below.


Acceptable context includes "I'm scum with Prozac and he sucks at distancing."

I see no cognitive dissonance between the posts. Also, if I was scum with Prozac he'd be lynched already.

[UberNinja]

Well then you should have no problem lynching him now.

[Captain Murasa]

Guys, I'm replacing out. The game is moving too fast for me. Sorry.

[CooLDoG]

Cooldog what do you think of poro/mos?

I would prefer for you to answer the points against you that I have brought up before I answer your questions, but what are you going to do?

Poro I'm not entirely sure on. Some posts make me think he is town, some make me think he is scum.
Mos is the scummier of the two for sure. But I'm not sold on him being scum. Our best bets are to lynch out of you,DW,Captain (which made a really really really scummy replace, We will get to that a little bit later), or even GI to some extent. I would prefer one of the first three.

How does being stupid clear you as town? Can't scum be stupid? Can't scum fake being stupid? Are you being stupid? Because compared to the other two you are the most "Stupid" of the bunch.

Funny how Captain Murasa replaces out when D1 Was way faster than d2... Also odd that she chooses now of all times to replace out.

[PeregrineV]

Catching up from before.

Yeah, I'm here.

More later since my boss is in town, but no doc or JK, since Glork was obvious target.

maybe they just didn't target glork because they thought glork was scum

ever think of that?

Not really.

Now I wonder what Haylen meant by this?

Now I wonder why you didn't ask her yesterday?

@Jason- People neglected in 946.
GreyIce
Mastermind of Sin
Did you not agree/disagree/have anything to say about anything they said?

My, bad, you do use a MoS quote to reinforce a Capt Murasa attack in 947.

@Porochaz-

There is a lot of PoE going on, which is horrible but out of everything, this was the worst PoE, from a logical standpoint but more importantly from a stating helpful advice to scum standpoint.

What advice was given, and how will it help scum?
Meanwhile, I do like the MoS vote.

@Grey-

If I produced an example of a day 1 town lynch with zero scum on the wagon, would you please vote OBVIOUS SCUM POROCHAZ?

Maybe. I'd be interested in seeing it, either way.

Maybe. I'd like to see it, anyway.

lol

@Delta (1007) He's not getting MAD TOWN CRED for it. Who are your other likely suspects?

It's more if UN flips scum than town, UN flipping town means I need to re-evaluate this game, possibly look at the people trying to lead town, like Mos and Grey. It wouldn't mean Delta was in the clear, to answer your question, but my reasons for having suspicion on DW would not make sense if UN was town. Although not as apparent, the love between UN and Delta isn't one way. I can't see either of them as scum trying to buddy to a town player, partly due to their experience but mostly due to the desperation in UN's posts combined with Delta's apparent lack of concern that there is someone who is doing the defending for him.

It seems like your scumhunting would be more effective if you skipped the unverifiable associative tells at this point and went straight to the re-evaluation.

Totally caught up with the thread.

Vote: Mastermind of Sin

[hasdgfas]

Captain Leela replaces Captain Murasa

[UberNinja]

Captain Leela replaces Captain Murasa

[jasonT1981]

Welcome Leela, to catch you up to speed, right now your slot is one of my top scum suspects along with Deltawave. I will however

unvote

to let you get caught up on everything for now.

Ninja -= I don't buy into the too stupid to be scum thing, too much WIFOM for my liking.