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Post Post #1050 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 8:00 am

Post by iamausername »

Porochaz wrote:It's more if UN flips scum than town, UN flipping town means I need to re-evaluate this game, possibly look at the people trying to lead town, like Mos and Grey. It wouldn't mean Delta was in the clear, to answer your question, but my reasons for having suspicion on DW would not make sense if UN was town. Although not as apparent, the love between UN and Delta isn't one way. I can't see either of them as scum trying to buddy to a town player, partly due to their experience but mostly due to the desperation in UN's posts combined with Delta's apparent lack of concern that there is someone who is doing the defending for him.


So your point is "If UN is scum, his lynch will be good", and you're trying to pass that off as a valid reason to lynch him. Got it.

jasonT1981 wrote:Oh gold mine!! scum is caught, trapped and backtracking! not knowing what she said d1!

[snip]

Not a strong town read D1 but enough that you declared as town MANY TIMES! CAUGHT IN YOUR LIES

Lynch this now please!!!


jason, you've quoted one post that calls CoolDog null, one that says one thing he said looks town, THAT SAME EXACT POST AGAIN, and one that clarifies why the previous post looks town while also calling something else he said scummy.

Saying that this does not constitute a strong town read is in no way a massive lynch-worthy contradiction. Please check your extreme confirmation bias at the door and try again.

GreyICE wrote:If you follow the voting, no one else really emerged with a viable wagon, so the scum had little motive to try and push through a town lynch. In response, they stayed off the wagon, and there you go. All green town wagon, day 1, no self-hammer.

Stop assuming scum work hard to get town lynched. Especially when the town is hugely scummy it's usually the scum who don't want to commit.


OK. Granted, it is possible for a town lynch to happen with no scum involvement.

However, the complete lack of any counterwagon there seems like a pretty exceptional set of circumstances that didn't exist in this game. If I take for granted that DeltaWave is town, which I see no reason to do, then at least some of the scum
did
put effort into pushing a town wagon, because there is only one person in the game who didn't pick one side or the other between Haylen and DeltaWave yesterday.

I'm not assuming that scum work hard to get town lynched. If I made that assumption, I'd probably be voting for you. I'm voting for the guy who put a shitty vote on Haylen at the beginning of the game, parked it there without any further comment about her for most of the day, OMGUSed when Glork started hounding him, then switched back to Haylen when it became clear that it was either her or him. Hardly what I'd call 'working hard'.

DeltaWave wrote:
You know what the absolute best part of this post is? The language that you're using presumes that I'm town. If you
really
thought I was scum, then there's no way I could have been
wrong
about Haylen, since scum would know the alignment of other players. You call me scum in the last line of your post, but your analysis presumes that I'm town who was wrong about my reads. That's because you're fully aware that I'm town.

You just scumslipped hard.


Because this kind of logic worked out so well yesterday.

UberNinja wrote:mos, iama, jason, delta: please come over to the porochaz wagon.

delta: cooldog is probably just stupid town.
jason: captain murasa seems too stupid to be scum.
mos: your wagon is going nowhere, vote porochaz
iama: same as mos, delta is town. vote porochaz


Who else is scum besides Prozac? Because you seem to be clearing... pretty much everyone else in this post.

CooLDoG wrote:
Funny how Captain Murasa replaces out when D1 Was way faster than d2... Also odd that she chooses now of all times to replace out.


I think the two days have been pretty much on a par as far as pace, and I don't have a clue what you're getting at with the 'now of all times'. Why is this a particularly scummy time to replace out?
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Post Post #1051 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 8:09 am

Post by Porochaz »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:It saddens me to say this, but Delta is probably not scum. That said, this game has made it obvious that he has no fucking clue what he's talking about. Still, his posts the last few pages have seemed genuine to me.

Vote: iamausername


I really think we've got scum here. I think D1 was predominantly run by idiot town going after each other (Haylen, GI, Delta, etc...Glork wasn't an idiot but he was chasing the idiots for being dumbasses rather than for being scummy). iamausername's post where he voted Delta really set off alarm bells in my head, especially since Delta's most recent posts before that had made me LESS sure of him being scum, not the other way around.

Also, Prozac: Just because you modded my ONE exceptionally good town game in the last two years doesn't mean you know my town meta. In fact, I was a replacement in that game, so you have no basis for comparison toward my Day 1 play (which is relatively consistent across the site).


I wasn't even thinking about that.
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Post Post #1052 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 8:30 am

Post by CooLDoG »

@iam, "Can't take the pressure!" People are starting to gang up on her. And her excuse makes no sense at all.
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Post Post #1053 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 8:39 am

Post by CooLDoG »

Also, welcome tammy! Thanks for replacing in.
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Post Post #1054 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 9:19 am

Post by PeregrineV »

jasonT1981 wrote:Welcome Leela, to catch you up to speed, right now your slot is one of my top scum suspects along with Deltawave. I will however

unvote
to let you get caught up on everything for now.

Way to pressure your top scum suspect. :roll:
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Post Post #1055 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 10:25 am

Post by UberNinja »

PeregrineV wrote:
jasonT1981 wrote:Welcome Leela, to catch you up to speed, right now your slot is one of my top scum suspects along with Deltawave. I will however

unvote
to let you get caught up on everything for now.

Way to pressure your top scum suspect. :roll:

Way to snipe at someone from a vantage point of relative safety. :roll:
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Post Post #1056 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 10:50 am

Post by PeregrineV »

UberNinja wrote:
PeregrineV wrote:
jasonT1981 wrote:Welcome Leela, to catch you up to speed, right now your slot is one of my top scum suspects along with Deltawave. I will however

unvote
to let you get caught up on everything for now.

Way to pressure your top scum suspect. :roll:

Way to snipe at someone from a vantage point of relative safety. :roll:


UberNinja wrote:Jason, I'm not convinced Captain Murasa is scum. I'm willing to give him a chance to redeem himself.

Porochaz on the other hand. GreyICE makes a
very good point
, which I myself missed. So here I am, sheeping GreyICE again.

Vote: Porochaz


Porochaz removes his vote from his "top candidate", this is pointed out by GreyIce, and you think Porochaz deserves a vote.
Jason removes his vote from his "top candidate", I point this out, and you want to call me out for pointing it out?

Please explain the contradictory thought patterns, both in relation to Porochaz-Jason, and GreyIce-me.
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Post Post #1057 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 10:58 am

Post by GreyICE »

What is this shit?

Everything anyone has written on this page is very stupid.

Except Iam's post, but that's the top of the page, so it barely counts.
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Post Post #1058 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 12:17 pm

Post by jasonT1981 »

PeregrineV wrote:
UberNinja wrote:
PeregrineV wrote:
jasonT1981 wrote:Welcome Leela, to catch you up to speed, right now your slot is one of my top scum suspects along with Deltawave. I will however

unvote
to let you get caught up on everything for now.

Way to pressure your top scum suspect. :roll:

Way to snipe at someone from a vantage point of relative safety. :roll:


UberNinja wrote:Jason, I'm not convinced Captain Murasa is scum. I'm willing to give him a chance to redeem himself.

Porochaz on the other hand. GreyICE makes a
very good point
, which I myself missed. So here I am, sheeping GreyICE again.

Vote: Porochaz


Porochaz removes his vote from his "top candidate", this is pointed out by GreyIce, and you think Porochaz deserves a vote.
Jason removes his vote from his "top candidate", I point this out, and you want to call me out for pointing it out?

Please explain the contradictory thought patterns, both in relation to Porochaz-Jason, and GreyIce-me.


Completely different set of circumstances. I unvoted to let Leela catch up and give her thoughts as someone replacing into the game. Poro didn't.
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Post Post #1059 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 12:22 pm

Post by UberNinja »

^

Try again PereV.
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Post Post #1060 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 12:42 pm

Post by Captain Leela »

Hi all! I'm replacing Murasa. I was able to read through the thread this afternoon and will be commenting on some things and giving reads tonight. I have some people to ISO and think about, and I haven't been given access to the team qt yet, so I don't know what any of their thoughts are at this point.

Anyway, the Haylen wagon was a bit of a disappointment (lulz...confirmation bias). I could see the case on her, but it seems like some people were voting for her for personality tells instead of alignment. I noticed that early on UN claimed that her defense of herself was something that scum do because townies disregard suspicion, which is absolute bullshit. How people react to suspicion is more a personality than an alignment tell so any push on someone for overreacting or getting over defensive is weak and clumsy. What's most disappointing is that the lynch came instead of DeltaWave which was a far superior lynch, but since I have a bit to say about him and need to ISO that will come in a later post.

GreyIce is town - He's rude and snarky and makes me laugh, which always wins me over. So he's innocent...of course. (lulz...buddying) Okay no, I don't just claim people town for something like that, but his demeanor yesterday and the way he pushed the Haylen lynch reads as town to me.

MoS is town - I had an iffy feeling when he entered and even though he didn't do much day one, he felt town. This was strengthened by the way he approached day two. I'm not a big fan of wagon analysis until there's been at least one scum flip, but eh. I also like his changing his position on DeltaWave in . I think he's wrong on DeltaWave, but his changing his mind looks genuine as does his search for scum.

CooLDoG is town - I read him as scum in the early part of the game, but he became town in and kept getting townier and townier after that. Plus he welcomed me to the game, which was nice.

Jason is town - His efforts to find scum feel genuine, that plus Glork's explanation and confidence in the town read makes me feel good about him being town.

GreyIce - Could you explain please? I reread the post in question and I'm trying to figure out what kind of scum tell it is. It just looked like normal questions to me.

Slaxx - I have a generally positive feeling about his posts, which make me lean town.

I have a strong scum read on DeltaWave, am leaning scum on Uberninja and Peregrine, and am waffling on Porochax and Iamusername. I need to ISO these 6 before I finish putting my thoughts together.
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Post Post #1061 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 12:55 pm

Post by UberNinja »

Fine, I have had it.

Let's just fucking lynch Delta so I can say "I told you so" and everyone can get back to being logical.

Spoiler:
Just kidding
. Don't you guys dare lynch him.

In fact, if it comes down to it, I'd recommend lynching me first so I'll flip town and you can see that my read on him is genuine. I'm just a lowly VT so it doesn't fucking matter in the long run, and he's been more use to the game than I have.

I just can't get into my groove this game. I blame CoolDog.
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Post Post #1062 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 12:57 pm

Post by Captain Leela »

UberNinja wrote:time to ISO glork to see who he suspected


I've been going back and forth on what I think about you the whole thread, but when I came to this post I immediately had good thoughts about you. I don't think enough people look back at the thoughts of the night kill and see if it can help in determining who the killers are, so I looked forward to see what you discovered. It looked like you were being proactive in the hunt for killers, but you never did anything with it. Why not?
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Post Post #1063 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 12:58 pm

Post by UberNinja »

UberNinja wrote:I just can't get into my groove this game. I blame CoolDog.
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Post Post #1064 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 1:05 pm

Post by UberNinja »

Glork's voting history.

Not gonna analyze all his posts due to there being so much, but just the votes should be enough. He hopped around a lot so that seems like an adequate representation of "who he suspected at the time", as opposed to him suspecting multiple people but voting only one of them. So that's fortuitous, at least.

Glork wrote:
UberNinja wrote:Is there a true answer to why I picked GreyICE? Maybe. But maybe not.

For someone who recently lamented that personalities are trumping logic and reasoning, this seems awfully dubious.

Unvote
Vote: UberNinja

Glork wrote:I'm willing to see where this goes. The only note I had on Haylen was that her enthusiasm seemed out of character, but chamber and I had attributed that to the uniqueness of Team Mafia.

Vote: Haylen

Glork wrote:
UNVOTE
VOTE: UBERNINJA

FOS: SLAXX
MINOR FOS: CAPTAIN MURASA



PEdit: Grey: I'm trying to post from my phone at work, hence the delay and not being hidden.

More PEdit: Fuck it, I'll read that shit later.

Glork wrote:Whatever.

Vote: Haylen


Still don't like UberNinja a whole lot.

Glork wrote:
Haylen wrote:
Glork wrote:If you want to attack the contents of the defense, do that, but defending oneself from an attack isn't by any means a scum tell.

Glork's voting me when he said my defence isn't scummy. Voting patterns inconsistent with opinions -> noted.

:bigredx:

Stating "defending oneself isn't scummy" != "Haylen's defense isn't scummy."

Your defense is like a billion times STRONGER than it was in LyLo in Scummies WINvitational, and that freaks me the fuck out, because
THE GAME WAS ON THE LINE THEN, AND YOU COULDN'T BE ARSED TO DEFEND YOURSELF
. Here, you get some small amount of pressure D1, and flip a shit out on EVERYBODY. The difference could not be mroe vast. I'm trying to figure out why that's the case.

I said that people should not attack you simply because you defend yourself. They should be attacking you because of
HOW
you defend yourself. Because it doesn't sit well with me either.



Porochaz: Before I even begin to get into this one, could you please explain your definition of "flailing"?


Now, first impressions of the Haylenwagon.
Grey is either busing like a crazy motherfucker, or is town. To be completely frank, I could see either being the case quite easily. I'd be sorely tempted to gain brownie points by throwing Haylen under the bus if I were scum.
This may sound really, really, REALLY retarded. But what initially bothered me is the way he tried to appeal to me without dropping a pile of f-bombs and/or insulting my intelligence. I got a distinct "I want to get on Glork's good side" vibe from his appeal to me.
What really tipped me off to the idea of Grey busing is this whole "read you like a book" thing. While it may be TECHNICALLY true that Grey has never misread Haylen as town,
his sample size appears to be ONE
. Can somebody please explain how the fuck reading a player in ONE game translates to "I can read you like an open book"? Am I missing something here?


GreyICE wrote:Lets summarize this.

Haylen is trying to convince me that I can't read her.
With her vote on me.


If I'm scum, why does she want to introduce doubt about my read on her? I wouldn't have an honest read on her, I'd have a dishonest read on her based on the fact I was scum.
This one gets me, because the answer should be obvious.
But Haylen isn't GIVING it.
"Because showing that your claimed 'read' is complete bullshit will convince people that you are scum with a fabricated 'meta,' and she is town."

But fucking NOBODY is saying that. NOBODY. Instead we have Slaxx and iamausername derping along going "HAY I AGREEZ" and not bothring to put a bit of fucking THOUGHT into any of this.

And yet.

Haylen can't even give the right answer.


Sidenote on Haylen: CES is pretty convinced she's scum. Chamber is on the fence like me. CTD think she's town, and remembers a game from ages back where she vehemently defended herself D1 and CTD (as scum) got her lynched for it. So CTD asserts that her behavior here is consistent with Haylen-town.


PereV is being actively useless. DeltaWave, too.
Porochaz seems to have done his absolute best to not comment on the Haylen situation at all.
If Grey/Haylen are protown, there are probably two scum in this group of three.

I do, however, agree with Porochaz's points against Murasa. There are a lot of questions and not a lot of thoughts/opinions/analysis/statements given.

UberNinja is trying way too hard to be all cute with people, and CooLDoG hit the nail on the head with that one. It makes everything he says look like some herpaderp who would rather one-up other players than find scum. Basically, everything UN has said so far has struck me wrong. Nothing resonates as somebody looking for scum, just someone who would rather 'win' petty arguments over stupid shit.

I've got a tentative townread on jasonT.

Though I didn't read into it earlier (the whole skimming on my phone at work thing), a quick iso of iamusername reveals that looks pretty bad. I never got the impression that UN expected someone to ask "why Grey." The rest of iamusernames's posts are pretty uninspiring.

I'm actually going to take a step back here and
Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV
.
To be completely frank, I'd probably have moved to Porochaz, but I want to extract some information from him before I decide if he's scum or not.
PereV and DeltaWave, on the other hand, could use a bit of pressure the old-fashioned way.

Glork wrote:
Confirm Vote: Pere

Glork wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:
Porochaz wrote:
PeregrineV wrote:
Porochaz wrote:MoS, you do that, I vote for you.

Glork isn't playing his town game here.


Was there a particular post, or is this an overall thing?


You should read my posts addressed to him.


LoL, so basically you would vote me for sheeping Glork because he's not playing his town game, rather than voting Glork for not playing his town game?

HMMMMMM
Oh thank god.

For a bit I was worried you were scumsheeping me.

But yeah.

Unvote

Glork wrote:
Slaxx wrote:K well don't shoot the messenger but Reg is telling me Pere's honesty about not having shit to say early +his spiel about overcoming bis reads as town.

Reg is saying Iam+Haylen+a lurker right now.

Lukewarm on Haylen, but I could totes go for an Iamlynch here. "A lurker" seems right, too. If I have a gun, it's pointed at DeltaWave right now.

Vote: iamausername

Glork wrote:
Vote: Haylen

Glork wrote:
Haylen wrote:My team thinks you're scum.

Really.

That's fascinating, consiering 2/3 of your team hasn't been active on the site in 7 hours, and the other one is Parama, who should ALSO be meta-ing me as protown based on Scummies WINvitational.

Confirm Vote: Haylen

Glork wrote:
hasdgfas wrote:Haylen(5): UberNinja, DeltaWave, iamausername, Glork, GreyICE
Glork(2): Haylen, Porochaz
Captain Murasa(2): PeregrineV, jasonT1981
Uberninja(1): CooLDoG
jasonT1981(1): Captain Murasa


Not Voting: Mastermind of Sin, Slaxx

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is May 21.

DeltaWave wrote:My opinions:

Captain Murasa
Glork
Haylen

SCUM

Not totally set on the middle bunch but I'd vote for anyone in the bottom 4.

This isn't an incredibly convenient top three suspicion list or anything.

Vote: DeltaWave

Glork wrote:WILL NEVER, EVER LYNCH:
GreyICE
Slaxx
JasonT

Voting bloc from these people would be fine and dandy.

Glork wrote:
Unvote


Off to work. When I get home tonight, I'm going to catch up, re-read, and consider this very carefully, given there was a D1 scumlynch in the game my team was NOT in.

Glork wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:If anything, the main reason I'm not certain of my Glorktown read yet is because he wasn't ENOUGH of a dick so far. Obviously now his future behavior is moot toward this meta, but the point is that Glork being a dick isn't a scumtell.

Interesting. Not something I would have expected you to say.

Also worth noting that in Weasel Mafia, I was scum.

But part of my in-game persona is as a complete hard-ass, and I've publicly stated that I sometimes intentionally antagonize people I think are scum, because it elicits a more nautral (and easier to read) reaction. (Talking Tree Stump Mafia here.)




Now. I personally have sort of gotten cold feet about a Haylen-lynch. However, due to the result in the other game and after a little discussion with the team, there's *enough* of a chance that Haylen is scum that we decided being on the lynch is a good idea. I'll probably wind up regretting this for a host of reasons, but here goes.

Vote: Haylen

Glork wrote:Bah. Go town.
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Post Post #1065 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 1:24 pm

Post by DeltaWave »

Despite the fact that Cooldog annoys me to no end, I have to admit that the case on Poro is stronger at the moment.

UNVOTE: CD
VOTE: Porochaz
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Post Post #1066 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 1:36 pm

Post by UberNinja »

^ this is clearly town
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Post Post #1067 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 3:14 pm

Post by CooLDoG »

UberNinja wrote:^ this is clearly town

why
after a wank.
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Post Post #1068 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 3:30 pm

Post by jasonT1981 »

UberNinja wrote:^ this is clearly town


voting who you are voting, or who you approve of him voting does not = town!
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Post Post #1069 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 4:46 pm

Post by GreyICE »

Captain Leela wrote:
GreyIce - Could you explain please? I reread the post in question and I'm trying to figure out what kind of scum tell it is. It just looked like normal questions to me.


Did you just ask me to explain why a post your slot made was scummy?

The sitting there and 'I'm bored ask me something' is the most passive thing in the universe. It's literally saying 'I don't want to be seen as lurking, but I don't want to initiate anything. Come on townies, initiate something for me.'

So is your slot scum, Leela?
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Post Post #1070 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 7:21 pm

Post by Porochaz »

The case on me at the moment is what? That I had a case on MoS which I decided wasn't as good as the one I had on Uber so I switched my votes? Right... well glad people are playing their A game here. (or GreyIce is sadly, playing blindly, Uber likes to follow people and Delta likes to follow Uber - hey isn't there a pattern forming here?)
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Post Post #1071 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 7:26 pm

Post by Tammy »

GreyICE wrote:
Captain Leela wrote:
GreyIce - Could you explain please? I reread the post in question and I'm trying to figure out what kind of scum tell it is. It just looked like normal questions to me.


Did you just ask me to explain why a post your slot made was scummy?

The sitting there and 'I'm bored ask me something' is the most passive thing in the universe. It's literally saying 'I don't want to be seen as lurking, but I don't want to initiate anything. Come on townies, initiate something for me.'

So is your slot scum, Leela?
.

Nope!

And what? I don't even know what post you're talking about. referenced as a scum tell. It was referring to a post made by Jason, which is why it was just under my read of him. I couldn't figure out why him asking those questions was a scum tell.
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Post Post #1072 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 7:27 pm

Post by Captain Leela »

Tammy wrote:
GreyICE wrote:
Captain Leela wrote:
GreyIce - Could you explain please? I reread the post in question and I'm trying to figure out what kind of scum tell it is. It just looked like normal questions to me.


Did you just ask me to explain why a post your slot made was scummy?

The sitting there and 'I'm bored ask me something' is the most passive thing in the universe. It's literally saying 'I don't want to be seen as lurking, but I don't want to initiate anything. Come on townies, initiate something for me.'

So is your slot scum, Leela?
.

Nope!

And what? I don't even know what post you're talking about. referenced as a scum tell. It was referring to a post made by Jason, which is why it was just under my read of him. I couldn't figure out why him asking those questions was a scum tell.


Oops :oops:
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Post Post #1073 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 8:06 pm

Post by Captain Leela »

DeltaWave wrote:Despite the fact that Cooldog annoys me to no end, I have to admit that the case on Poro is stronger at the moment.

UNVOTE: CD
VOTE: Porochaz


Although I think your case on CooLDoG sucks, why is Poro's suddenly stronger?
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Post Post #1074 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 8:29 pm

Post by iamausername »

I'm going to be V/LA for the next couple of days... may or may not be able to get on at all, but certainly don't expect anything much from me before Sunday.

don't do anything dumb while i'm gone
Elapsam semel occasionem non ipse potest Iuppiter reprehendere
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