TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.04

Llamarble (3) - Bub Bidderskins, Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - Captain Falcon
Nachomamma8 (1) - singersigner
singersigner (1) - Matias

Not Voting (5) - Benmage, Johhog, Llamarble, SocioPath, Nachomamma8

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Sunday, June 3, 2012, at 7:08 PM EDT (UTC-4).

Mod Notes

Johhog is V/LA from May 22 to May 24.

[Zachrulez]

I'd rather hear from Llamarble first before I make judgment on him.

I've heard a lot in the silence that has been coming from him since the end of day 1.

[Matias]

Me too, kind of, but I'd rather have him catch up.

[Zachrulez]

I just looked at search on him and misread last post from tue as thu, so I might have jumped the gun on that. It's not my primary reason for suspecting him anyway.

[Matias]

Oh good, for a second, I was doubting you were townish, but I like that.

[Matias]

Fonz got back to me.

He hasn't been on MS a lot since he died in his game. He hasn't been checking up lately, but he will see what he can do. He really doesn't like the WF setup at all though.

[singersigner]

I want to know why wanting a player replaced out and wanting a slot dead is not something that contradicts each other in the sense of "I think it's the player" and "I don't think it's the player, it's the alignment".

You keep saying that

*I*

was the one who wanted him to replace out, which is why you're having conflicting reads. Just because you continue to misread/misinterpret what I said, and repeat it over and over again, doesn't make it true.

It basically boils down to this: I wanted votes on him. I was telling people to pressure him into either replacing out or give me something that would change my mind. I really don't understand how you're still not understanding that after I've said it at least twice (three times) now.

It's like you're trying to capitalize on seeing one thing that you see as a contradiction, while not reading anything else I've said. You certainly haven't bothered responding to anything other than saying BUT SEE HERE IN THIS ONE POST.

[singersigner]

I'll have my own thoughts re: your Amrun comments later, but I'm traveling straight for the next two days (driving 8 hours today, then flying 14 hours tomorrow), so it'll have to wait til I have internet again. I'm already late. >_>

[Matias]

I understand what youre saying, but if youre willing to have him replace out or have someone convince you otherwise, THAT is why Im not liking your stance on it, because it sounds like youre targeting the player, not the slot. This is what I mean. Its that youre WILLING to have him replace out, not that you asked him to (though thatd be much worse)

Im on my phone, so I have to reread this entire argument.

[Nachomamma8]

I have a half an hour to catch up, so I'm probably not gonna get done by today.

He was the fourth on the bandwagon, which is my breaking point for "bandwagon inflation". But more importantly, he made a comment that did not further any discussion at all and was kind of pointless. Other people either just voted or came up with a silly reason for voting. You asked Singer a valid meta-related question. CES just made a silly comment on the game itself that served no purpose.

This is stupid. If you're making that argument, then I don't really see how singer/llamarble/amrun/captain did any more to get the game out of the RVS than CES did. I don't really like this because it seems like a failed attempt at a strong start.

Llamarble's #23 also seems like it's falling into the same trap.

I don't understand why Matias unvoted at the top of page two. Was it so he could brag that he predicted the Llamarble forming, or...? Not really liking how he's trying to push something on Haddock, but needs Zach's approval to do it.

Zach bringing up his own meta sucks. A lot.

I'm getting a pretty strong town read from singer based on how aggressively she's responding to Zach and Matias.

Matias is being stubborn as hell with the brilliance of his RVS wagon that he started on Llamarble, and I'm reading it as pretty distinctly townish. At least from the times I've played with him, he's been a lot more passive and reserved.

Sparing the long detailed explanation, the gist of it is that I'm terrible at scum.

I would like the long detailed explanation.

Fishing around for views on self instead of scum. This most is mainly just a defense asking for reasons why people think he's scum.

It's pretty standard procedure to ask why people are voting you if you are suspected and you don't really know why.

For the record I love me some lurking as scum, and I'm not stupid either.

But I thought you sucked as scum...

I really like how Captain Haddock is insistent in getting people to read his ISO in order to read his case on Matias. It shows that he's pretty damn confident in it, and that he's also confident that his ISO shows his towniness.

I like Johhog's #302. He could let the newbie card ride for a little while, but instead takes a hit right in the pride. If he were scum, I think the ego would translate more into a "I'll show you by crushing your entire team" rather than a simple fuck you.

1. CES' reads have been static for half the game so far. Maybe a top scumread stays the same for a long time, but all 3 top reads don't stay the same when you're looking for scum. Especially when you have a whole team's worth of people with new ideas.

I disagree, and I think that it's scummy you're trying to discount CES's reads because he's had them for a long time.

made it halfway through pretty much, will continue later
for now matias and singer and haddock are solidly town
bub and johhog and ben are pretty town

[Captain Falcon]

But, on that note, my scumread on Haddock is lessening. I like Captain Falcon so far, and even though I know it doesn't matter at all, I can't help but feel less passion for that Ajax flipped scum. I'm trying to reason myself with statistics that I know. I did think Haddock's replace out was a minor town tell, though.

There are scenarios where team mates flipping scum or town would be meaningful, but I really don't see how Captain Ajax's alignment is supposed to be linked to Captain Falcon's. It's null.

CES. Rectify this statement in terms of what your teammates have stated within the last 4 hours with relation to this specific tell.

My vote is now even more justified the fact that you can come to different conclusions regarding the same topic.

[Zachrulez]

For the record I love me some lurking as scum, and I'm not stupid either.

But I thought you sucked as scum...

I wasn't bragging. I literally know nothing else as scum and it inevitably leads to me getting caught.

[Equinox]

Llamarble has been prodded.

[Llamarble]

I was entirely off the internet the last couple days. I'll catch up soon though.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

CES. Rectify this statement in terms of what your teammates have stated within the last 4 hours with relation to this specific tell.

I think it's mostly null with a team like Captain's. Like I said, you need to have beliefs about how the team assigns its role PMs before you can really draw meaningful conclusions from it.

[Johhog]

I'm back now. Reading.

[zoraster]

But, on that note, my scumread on Haddock is lessening. I like Captain Falcon so far, and even though I know it doesn't matter at all, I can't help but feel less passion for that Ajax flipped scum. I'm trying to reason myself with statistics that I know. I did think Haddock's replace out was a minor town tell, though.

There are scenarios where team mates flipping scum or town would be meaningful, but I really don't see how Captain Ajax's alignment is supposed to be linked to Captain Falcon's. It's null.

CES. Rectify this statement in terms of what your teammates have stated within the last 4 hours with relation to this specific tell.

My vote is now even more justified the fact that you can come to different conclusions regarding the same topic.

1. Players may mention other games within Team Mafia only to talk about things that have been mod confirmed such as what a player flipped when they were killed. They may not speculate about another game’s players (such as who is scummy and so forth). You may not talk about how bad a wagon was, etc. You must keep it to only the information provided by the moderator.

Violating the Talking About Other Games Section: For minor offenses: First time -1 point or a warning depending on severity, Second+ -5 points. For major offenses: -5 points to mod kill on either or both members violating, depending on severity.

Encouraging Others to Violate a Rule: Warning up to the penalty that would be assessed on the encouraged behavior.

This is a warning for discussing other games beyond what is mod confirmed. As a reminder: you may not discuss other games except in the ways described in the rules.

Future violations by The Captains will result in point deductions.

[Matias]

Oh look, nachomamma is posting a lot more than TSQ, how

strange

, right singer?

[Equinox]

Benmage has been prodded.

[Captain Falcon]

CES. Rectify this statement in terms of what your teammates have stated within the last 4 hours with relation to this specific tell.

I think it's mostly null with a team like Captain's. Like I said, you need to have beliefs about how the team assigns its role PMs before you can really draw meaningful conclusions from it.

And where did you say this exactly?

[singersigner]

Oh look, nachomamma is posting a lot more than TSQ, how

strange

, right singer?

He made one post?

So strange...

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. He's basically called 5 people town-prob town, none of which included one of the most obviously town players in the game (in fact, he attacked him in his post).

Also, I see you've changed your stance to me ASKING him to replace out to me being WILLING to have him replace out. Sure, I'm willing to have anyone replace out if the situation calls for it. That doesn't mean I'm going to find his slot any less scummy all things considering (half of which you are not). Yes, I said Shea could

possibly

change my mind if he delivered, but he didn't, in any way, shape, or form.

Also, also, I'd like to know what you have to say AFTER rereading the argument.

[singersigner]

In any case, Zach, Matias, Johhog, Falcon, and Bub are my strongest town reads that are in all honestly not likely to change. I'd like to hear what Socio has to say about the happenings of Day 1, most importantly where he's placing his vote. Rereading Benmage after what Zach had to say about him.

CES, Llamarble, Socio, and Benmage are the people I'd like to hear most from today.

Nacho...sorry dude, that first post wasn't very convincing...

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

CES. Rectify this statement in terms of what your teammates have stated within the last 4 hours with relation to this specific tell.

I think it's mostly null with a team like Captain's. Like I said, you need to have beliefs about how the team assigns its role PMs before you can really draw meaningful conclusions from it.

And where did you say this exactly?

I was referring to the comment you quoted. ("There are scenarios where team mates flipping scum or town would be meaningful, but I really don't see how Captain Ajax's alignment is supposed to be linked to Captain Falcon's. It's null.")

[singersigner]

EBWOP: he stated 6 town reads, my bad.

Also, I'm mooching off of crappy airport internet, and my flight's about to board, so see you guys on Sunday.

Nacho, it's still worth catching up. I'd really like to hear what you have to say about the rest of the game.

I'd also like to hear what everyone's opinion of Socio is at this point in the game.

[singersigner]

BAH ALSO REREADING REGFAN LAST POST I SWEAR.