[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Staeg]

How about simply making the target flip VT and letting mafia know whether it was a vt or not?

[Phillammon]

I had a different idea, actually, which is lose the block/janitor and make NKs noflip.

[Phillammon]

Gah, why no PEdits... Yeah, that would be a good idea. The Scumkill is actually a kill+Rolecop, and NKs are noflip...

[Phillammon]

Delphi

3x Mafia Goons

4x Oracles
7x Vanilla Townies

-Each Oracle picks a person each night. If that oracle dies that night and they chose a town-aligned player, then the player that they chose becomes mod confirmed town. However, if the oracle is lynched, or they chose a scum-aligned player, then no such confirmation occurs.
-Scum have a factional nightkill, which also reports the role of the killed player to the scum QT.
-Night Kills do not flip.[/area]

Any better? Slightly edited to account for everything. Maybe the number of oracles needs tweaking?

[Staeg]

You can enable PVs in options.

[Phillammon]

PVs?

[Staeg]

PreViews

[Phillammon]

Ah. Okay. In any case, do you think that could work better?

[Staeg]

Well, I'd say yeah.

[IceGuy]

You should flip alignment, even if you don't flip role. And I'm thinking town might be underpowered without oracle flips.

[Staeg]

Iceguy, if the mafia somehow kill one of their own, I don't think town should complain about that strategic move.

[Phillammon]

If there were a third party, maybe. The way I see this being played by the town is watching for coincidences in the hypoclaims etc, whereas the scum are desperately trying to ensure that they hit VT if anyone is pointed at them, and trying to lynch the oracles to avoid getting into lylo with too many confirmed townies left. I still want to force scum to manage to lynch at least one more oracle than they lose themselves, hence there being one more oracle than there is scum.

[IceGuy]

Iceguy, if the mafia somehow kill one of their own, I don't think town should complain about that strategic move.

What do you mean?

[Phillammon]

I mean, there are only two alignments. Scum, and Town. Alignment flip is unnecessary because they will flip town, as there is only scum who have NKs, and scum self killing in a vanilla+investigative game is MORONIC.

[IceGuy]

So you mean lynches do flip?

[Staeg]

He explicitly said NIGHT KILLS do not flip, so I guess so?

[Phillammon]

Yeah, lynches flip, but don't give oracle knowledge.

[callforjudgement]

I mean, there are only two alignments. Scum, and Town. Alignment flip is unnecessary because they will flip town, as there is only scum who have NKs, and scum self killing in a vanilla+investigative game is MORONIC.

I've seen something very similar done offsite (although the setup wasn't quite so simple, it was close; a cop/doc/vig variation). The mafia member in question maintained it was the right play afterwards; they'd killed the cop and were trying to make out that the dead scum was the real cop, and it worked right up to the day after the day the town thought was lylo :)

[Phillammon]

Fair enough. All the same, I reckon it's unnecessary, given the meta here.

[Junpei]

Delphi

3x Mafia Goons

4x Oracles
7x Vanilla Townies

-Each Oracle picks a person each night. If that oracle dies that night and they chose a town-aligned player, then the player that they chose becomes mod confirmed town. However, if the oracle is lynched, or they chose a scum-aligned player, then no such confirmation occurs.
-Scum have a factional nightkill, which also reports the role of the killed player to the scum QT.
-Night Kills do not flip.[/area]

Any better? Slightly edited to account for everything. Maybe the number of oracles needs tweaking?

Day 1:
Mass claim.

Why is this not the best option? This would either force mafia to kill an oracle or two or force mafia to CC oracle, in which case it becomes 7v2 + 4v1. It's pretty much monotonous, and 10v3 monotonous is balanced yes?

[Faraday]

Do you mean 'Mountainous'?

And no, 10/3 isn't balanced. Not at all. 10/3 white flag is considered balanced but I don't think town have won that in practise, either.

[Phillammon]

10 v 3 with possible confirmed town, I'd have thought, would be fairer, though. As for the anti mass-claim, surely that's by definition a problem with all opens? How do most non-variables stop it being a gamebreaker?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

By having few non-VT roles and disincentivizing claiming (e.g. Macho Cops).

[callforjudgement]

10 v 3 with possible confirmed town, I'd have thought, would be fairer, though. As for the anti mass-claim, surely that's by definition a problem with all opens? How do most non-variables stop it being a gamebreaker?

Either by having very few power roles, or with a specific anti-mass-claim mechanic (normally involving some sort of scum power).

[Phillammon]

Would reducing things to 3 oracles, 7 VTs, 3 scum help?