TM2012: Scummies 2011.5 - Let the credits roll!

[theamatuer]

Group 2B was me, hito, BBmolla, and magua.
We gave out the best IC. I chose Quilford.
Also question: do you like to lie as scum or tell half-truths?

[theamatuer]

and why the hell did you guys go and lynch Magua

[hitogoroshi]

2b was me, Magua, BBmolla, theam. Not saying anything more until theam answers my question.

[hitogoroshi]

oh, ninja'd by the answer.

BBmolla, who did you choose to give the award to?

[BBmolla]

Chose Quilford.

Theam's question is dumb.

[hitogoroshi]

well inevitable follow up question

To my current Scummies Group, I'm voting to give the scummy to the person I said is my #1 choice in message #13 in the QT.

I am also in this group, and I would like to say that while this isn't the worst idea you should instead do what I said in post 20. Just trust me when I say it's the best, even if it seems janky.

why exactly did you guys not do this

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Hito - what was your suggestoiin in Post 20?

[hitogoroshi]

giving you best IC instead of quilford

[theamatuer]

Because Of a reason that I'll explain in- depth later

[hitogoroshi]

Okay, here's a question for

MoI only

:

please read this fragment and tell me what conclusions you draw.

I am also in this group, and I would like to say that while this isn't the worst idea you should instead do what I said in post 20. Just trust me when I say it's the best, even if it seems janky.

I believe I am now seeing the undertone of what you're saying, which I had not seen before. I have switched my vote to the person you suggested.

I believe I have the town motivation for why you would do this. I'm lacking the scum motivation, because if the person you are suggesting dies with the award, there's enough people in the group to make it bad for you, so I'm going to trust that my town motivation read of what you're suggesting is right.

[Kublai Khan]

Group 2C was myself, DeasVail, and xRECKONERx.

vote: theamatuer

[Zar]

hito: please look at 38 from the 1B QT.

[theamatuer]

oh right. We have a secret double voter here. I'd like that double voter to vote me just to confirm his/her existence, just so scum can't abuse it lylo/mylo or something

[T-Bone]

Double voter....what?

Also, is it just me, or are we not judging today?

For those of you in 2B, you gave the award to Quilford correct? Why?

[xRECKONERx]

I will catch up tomorrow. Too burnt out tonight. My group was me KK and DV

[DeasVail]

xReckonerX-

A moderate townread at the moment because of the Gaoth vote and I agree that he would probably be playing differently as scum. I'm still not very sure about this though and I get a kind of scummy feeling from him.

MagnaofIllusion-

I don't really see scum pushing Ajax as heavily as MoI did. That and his high activity are what contributes to my townread on him.

BBmolla-

This is one of my reads that I find myself having to reconsider. I originally had a bit of a scumread on him because he didn't really seem to know what to do in our Day 1 judging group and posted there well after his first post in the thread. He doesn't seem to show much thought regarding Ajax, and seems to jump straight to supporting his lynch. Until the claim of cop, I never felt at all sure about Ajax (although maybe that's just a me thing).

I think there are a few things that he says that seem townish, but going through his ISO, I've decided he's one of the less towny of the players remaining.

Kublai Khan-

I think he's town because of the thing where he didn't know that we were all judging each round, which I'm pretty sure happened before he asked me for my alignment preference (which would only be done as scum in an effort to look town to me, which would be unnecessary following me taking what he said in the QT as a towntell). Also, let's face it. Convincing me that you're town is one of the least useful things scum can do. Even his magua vote seems more eager than it would be from scum. Question: Is there anything in theam's ISO that makes you question your scumread?

T-Bone-

Seems like town to me, but I have a question or two: How did MoS know to point out what you said he pointed out in 242? Why didn't you vote theam Day 1?

Theamatuer-

Probably town, but why did you have a townread of Magua? What did you think of the scumreads on him?

Zar-

I think he could be scum. How he comes around to thinking Magua scum does seem suspicious. 558 is like "I voted for Magua so I better start attacking him", but sometimes he seems genuine. Question: Why were you so dramatic in your vote for Molla Day 1? Why did you leave yourself in the lists in 408?

Hitgoroshi-

Seems genuine overall, but I'm interested in why you thought Magua was scum?

I haven't decided on who I want to lynch today, and would like comments on my reads and answers to my questions.

Also, would it hurt to tell me what Best IC did? I'm curious.

[MagnaofIllusion]

First some information dump –

Judging Groups with Alignment Color Codes

–

Group 1A – Reck,

Quilford

, T-Bone,

Captain Ajax

,

MoI

: Gave Best Newbie
Group 1B – Hito,

Magua

, Zar, Theam,

Fonz

Group 1C – KK, BBMolla, DeaVail

Group 2A - MoI,

Quilford

, T-Bone and Zar.
Group 2B - TheAm, hito, BBmolla, and

Magua

: Gave Best IC
Group 2C – KK, Reck, Deas

Final Day 1 Vote Count with Alignment Color Codes

–

Captain Ajax

(7) - hitogoroshi,

Quilford

, DeasVail, BBMolla, T-Bone,

MagnaofIllusion

,

Magua

theamatuer (3) - Kublai Khan,

Fonz

,

Captain Ajax

Magua

(1) - xRECKONERx
BBmolla (2) - theamatuer, Zar

[MagnaofIllusion]

So what do I take from those bits –

I think KK is the best lynch for today. Aside from thinking he’s totes scum (as my case indicated) his flip either way gives us valuble relational information –

1. Him flipping scum clears BBMolla, DeaS and TheAm. You can argue with me if you want but no way that both unknown scum were in the 3 player group Day 1 or both remaining scum were in the 3 player group Day 2. Also KK and Ajax scum both being on TheAm when BB was a viable alternate wagon to TheAm means all three aren’t partners.

2. Alternately him flipping Town means that TheAm actually makes a very good scum possibility since Captain Ajax’s jump onto TheAm was with 3 confirmed Townies (Magua, Fonz and KK-Town). Odds are that was last second distancing given he could have also moved to BBMolla if he actually wanted a Town counterwagon.

So after I finish responding to the rest of the thread I’m probably dropping a KK vote.

[MagnaofIllusion]

and why the hell did you guys go and lynch Magua

See it is posts like this that are making me re-think my “TheAm shouldn’t be lynched today”. Because there is no Town motivation in posting this but plenty of scum motivation in grabbing “I was right” cred.

You notice I wasn’t voting for Magua yesterday. I thought KK was a better choice. But that doesn’t make me think Magua was a bad lynch given how Day 1 played out.

But this … this “How could you do that he was soooo Town” coming from a player who did NOTHING to prevent said lynch (your contribution was sheeping onto Zar). Nada. You plopped down your vote and just cruised.

Because Of a reason that I'll explain in- depth later

Well why don’t you consider later now!

oh right. We have a secret double voter here. I'd like that double voter to vote me just to confirm his/her existence, just so scum can't abuse it lylo/mylo or something

I myself would love to know how you came by this conclusion.

--

please read this fragment and tell me what conclusions you draw.

Um, whut?

You are asking me to draw a conclusion based on information I am not privy to from a single post from Magua?

Conclusions I can draw –

Magua had a Town read on you given his willingness to follow your suggestion and not seeing any strong scum-motivations in it.

Quilford’s reads Day 2 may be better than mine if scum if Quilford was killed blind.

There may be a scum leak in your group between TheAm and BBmolla since Quilford (who was ostensibly the first choice for the power) was taken out.

[hitogoroshi]

You are asking me to draw a conclusion based on information I am not privy to from a single post from Magua?

yeah basically I need to know what it looks like if you DON'T know what's being said because I'm trying to track the flow of information. I have my preconception of what it looks like is being said but I'm biased because I know what is being said.

so thanks for the help.

Hitgoroshi- Seems genuine overall, but I'm interested in why you thought Magua was scum?

both ends of the connection seemed pretty scummy. I don't know if Ajax was pulling some really high-end shit or if he just stumbled in to it but he sure looked pretty goath-buddy. also a team mafia specific secret tell that I guess was actually bunkum.

People in the 1a scummies judging group: I know how the votes fell (at least how everyone claimed they fell), but what was the discussion about votes in the QT? ie, can you list who claimed to be voting who when the QT closed, who claimed to be voting within a list, and who never claimed their votes?

[MagnaofIllusion]

People in the 1a scummies judging group: I know how the votes fell (at least how everyone claimed they fell), but what was the discussion about votes in the QT? ie, can you list who claimed to be voting who when the QT closed, who claimed to be voting within a list, and who never claimed their votes?

I'll field this ... there was no actual discussion about who to give it to in the QT. I take the blame for that (shared by Reck and Quil to a small degree as they were also voting) as I didn't read up on the QT specific rules and hammered the Best Newbie before discussion about who to give it to started.

It's one of the reasons I sort went batshit yesterday about 2A not being complete. I wanted to make sure I didn't participate in another Judging that didn't fully get it's shit together before deciding the award officially.

[Kublai Khan]

Question: Is there anything in theam's ISO that makes you question your scumread?

MagnaofIllusion picked up on the same thing I did. He called Magua town yesterday, made no effort to fight against the lynch then opened up today with a "aw, why'd you guys do that?" statement.

It feels like elementary scum-hunting (jeep-tells, even), but I haven't re-read Day 2 yet.

The "Quilford gets a PR then dies" happenance is suspicious as fuck. If I have any credibility at all I'd say that the scum are within {theamatuer, Zar, BBmolla}.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The "Quilford gets a PR then dies" happenance is suspicious as fuck. If I have any credibility at all I'd say that the scum are within {theamatuer, Zar, BBmolla}.

Why Zar in that set?

[Kublai Khan]

The "Quilford gets a PR then dies" happenance is suspicious as fuck. If I have any credibility at all I'd say that the scum are within {theamatuer, Zar, BBmolla}.

Why Zar in that set?

My group has a scum-read on him. They think that the Fonz's kill was a attempt to remove a lurker-hunter from the game. They feels that Zar (along with theamatuer & BBmolla) fit the profile of "possible lurker-scum".

[MagnaofIllusion]

My group has a scum-read on him. They think that the Fonz's kill was a attempt to remove a lurker-hunter from the game. They feels that Zar (along with theamatuer & BBmolla) fit the profile of "possible lurker-scum".

Well let’s discuss two specific elements of this –

1. Regarding Fonz dying to prevent ‘lurker hunting’ –

First of all who in your group espouced this. Is it a universal stance?

Second – your group theory is that Fonz was killed to snuff out a known lurker-hunter (which he claimed was true Day 1) and the scum just happened to get lucky that he was also assigned the Best Newbie Scummie?

2. Your group’s ‘possible lurker-scum’ –

Why is it that your lurker-scum group includes Zar (37 posts), TheAm (31 posts) and BBMolla (49 posts) but does not include T-Bone (20 posts)?