TM2012: Scummies 2011.5 - Let the credits roll!

[Kublai Khan]

1. Regarding Fonz dying to prevent ‘lurker hunting’ –

First of all who in your group espouced this. Is it a universal stance?

Second – your group theory is that Fonz was killed to snuff out a known lurker-hunter (which he claimed was true Day 1) and the scum just happened to get lucky that he was also assigned the Best Newbie Scummie?

Amrun. She suggested that Fonz's death suggested that there was a lurker/VI teamed with a more competent player who knows the Fonz. Kuribo agreed.

Regarding Fonz have a scummie. I'd say it's either luck or they might have had an ability to re-direct a scummie to the recipient of their choice.

2. Your group’s ‘possible lurker-scum’ –

Why is it that your lurker-scum group includes Zar (37 posts), TheAm (31 posts) and BBMolla (49 posts) but does not include T-Bone (20 posts)?

I explained my town-read on T-Bone a while back. His longest post (Post 242) was where he gave his reasoning for jumping onto the Captain Ajax wagon. If that was a bus, then it's the least bussingest bus that I've ever seen.

What's your read on xRECKONERx?

[T-Bone]

To be fair, KK doesn't have that much more posts than I do so I'm not sure it's far for him to call anyone 'lurker-scum'. Any lucker-scum list has to include me though. Dead players have more posts than I do. But I digress. The way the site meta is today, lurking as scum doens't seem like the best idea. In my experience playing mafia more often than not there is a scum trying to control the game, and the others trying to post enough so they don't get called lurker-scum.

Definitely agree on Theam. Honestly the only reason at this point I was calling him town was because Ajax flipped scum. I can subscribe to Hito's(I think) theory that Theam is scum and Ajax's vote on the wagon was to give Theam town credit. His ISO reads like a 'greatest hits list' of this is exactly how scum play.

@Deas - Because I asked my team to look over the game. While I had an emergency, I made sure to spend 5 minutes to notify everyone that I was disappearing, including my team. MoS happened to be the teamate who took a look at the game in my absence.

I'm reconsidering my position on Theam. Nothing of his play screams town to me, and the only reason I had him as town yesterday was Ajax's scumflip. I did contend that on Day 2 KK did little in the way of scumhunting and instead chose to argue with MoI about his play. Personally I'm not interested in a player going out of his way to explain why his play is town. It's not for anyone to decide if they are town, it's the rest of the playerlist. I'm more interested in KK's own thoughts rather than his team's.

Again those in 2B, why did you guys agree on giving the scummy to Quilford? And was it a group decision or did anyone disagree? I guess is what I'm getting at is take us through the process that led your group to pick Quil.

[xRECKONERx]

Alright, so... I got a secret double vote thingamajig from the first round of judging. I see no positive way to use this other than to just go ahead and get it out of the way. The only way I could see it helping would be waiting till LYLO/MYLO or some shit, but even that's a long shot and relies on scum going TROLOLOL YOU HAMMERED TOWN GG then letting me turn around and hammer a no lynch or something. I'm going to go ahead and use it today for two reasons:

1) If scum have some kind of "steal scummy" ability, I sure as fuck do NOT want them with a doublevote.
2) It removes the threat of any near-LYLO bullshit on my end.

There is probably scum in theamateur/hitogoroshi/BBmolla. Out of all of those, theam's song and dance this game has been textbook newbscum. The only reason I'm not

immediately

voting him is because somewhere deep down, I still get the tinge of "too scummy to be scum", but I know that's a logical fallacy.

I do believe MoI & DeasVail are both town. Through our interactions in our judging QT yesterday, the two of them both seemed VERY town, and the two of them devised a plan on how to decide who we'll be giving our award to that solely benefits from a town-mindset. I think BBmolla is town, simply because when he's scum, he's pretty obviously scum and I wind up screaming for his death (at least in my experience with him).

That makes me think it's {theamateur > hitogoroshi} + {Zar = Kublai Khan > T-Bone}.

[Lost Butterfly]

Day 3, Votecount 1

theamatuer (1) - Kublai Khan

Not voting

(8): xRECKONERx, MagnaofIllusion, BBmolla, T-Bone, theamatuer, DeasVail, Zar, hitogoroshi

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch or no-lynch.

Deadline:

June 13th at 7:12 PM (EDT)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-06-13 19:12:13)

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Hito

– please confirm that Group 1B gave out a Secret Doublevote Day 1 as TheAm has indicated. Also … is there any reason why he would NOT know who had it based on QT discussion?

@Deas

– yesterday you were all up in arms, as they say, about how I was no longer a Town read. What about yesterday after our back and forth changed your mind?
--

VOTE: KK

I’m not seeing anything in these responses that deters me from my initially posted thoughts today.

I explained my town-read on T-Bone a while back. His longest post (Post 242) was where he gave his reasoning for jumping onto the Captain Ajax wagon. If that was a bus, then it's the least bussingest bus that I've ever seen.

I explained at Post 510 (in my answer to Deas as to why TheAm made sense as a counterwagon to Ajax) why BBMolla makes little sense as scum given his vote flip to Ajax. You seem happy to eliminate the player with the least posts in the game as possible lurker-scum but ignore the reasoning on others. Do not care for.

What's your read on xRECKONERx?

Town. Scum Reck would not have passively let partner Ajax get lynched when he had a chance to further push the Gaoth / Magua wagon he was on for a time Day 1.

Add in his Quilford vote / retraction and other elements (his QT play Day 1) and he’s solid Town.

--

Alright, so... I got a secret double vote thingamajig from the first round of judging.

So this explains TheAm’s comment.

1) If scum have some kind of "steal scummy" ability, I sure as fuck do NOT want them with a doublevote.

I will chime in and say “I doubt they do”. One of the Scummies we had to choose from Day 2 in group 2A was just this – a scummy stealing ability. After getting Mod clarification it was quickly eliminated from contention as it had no Town upside.

I don’t think that scum would have the potential to get access to multiple versions of the same ability. Especially with the limits on awards we have seen (especially Best Newbie from Day 1).

@Reck

– can I get some input from you regarding my “KK is today’s best lynch” reasoning from Post 592? What do you and your team think of that line of thought?

[DeasVail]

T-Bone:

How did MoS know you skipped a page on re-read?

MoI:

Why are you considering theam as possible scum now and not yesterday?

I find it interesting that yesterday I was trying to say theam wasn't necessarily town, and no one listened to me and now theam being possible scum is a popular belief.

The problem is, I don't understand how things like:

-theam asking for an investigation role
-theam asking why we lynched Magua (I disagree with MoI, I don't understand why scum would say this)
-theam being obviously unhelpful

don't make people hesitate in calling theam scum. I think Magua said the day before that theam was supertown for asking for a PR, and I actually agree that it's a very town thing to do.

I guess I could see theam as scum, but if this is how he normally plays as town I'd quite confidently call him town. Does anyone have experience with theam that they'd be able to share?

[xRECKONERx]

@Reck – can I get some input from you regarding my “KK is today’s best lynch” reasoning from Post 592? What do you and your team think of that line of thought?

My team is really inactive right now in the QT. With two of us dead, it's a ghost town.

I do think it's a little unsafe to declare "these people are cleared if this person is scum", because it's not 100%. I really want a lynch on theamateur, but I'm not married to that and could be easily swung to KK if that's majority/half opinion.

[Zar]

[quote="In post 590

Zar-

I think he could be scum. How he comes around to thinking Magua scum does seem suspicious. 558 is like "I voted for Magua so I better start attacking him", but sometimes he seems genuine. [/quote]
Your stance on me is rather vague. Can you explain what in 558 gives you this impression?

Question: Why were you so dramatic in your vote for Molla Day 1?

I use interactions and reactions to try to discern a player's intent. Both Isa and I had a scumread on Molla based on his reaction to theam's thoughts from #151, Johhog also disliked Molla's #97.

Why did you leave yourself in the lists in 408?

I was making a list of the people off the Ajax wagon, which includes myself. Removing myself from the list feels underhanded.

[Kublai Khan]

I did contend that on Day 2 KK did little in the way of scumhunting and instead chose to argue with MoI about his play. Personally I'm not interested in a player going out of his way to explain why his play is town. It's not for anyone to decide if they are town, it's the rest of the playerlist. I'm more interested in KK's own thoughts rather than his team's.

I posted my thoughts early in Day 2. Nobody cared much except for MagnaofIllusion. I'll re-read and post new thoguhts later tonight.

And if I don't agree with my teammates, then I don't post their thoughts.

I do believe MoI & DeasVail are both town. Through our interactions in our judging QT yesterday, the two of them both seemed VERY town, and the two of them devised a plan on how to decide who we'll be giving our award to that solely benefits from a town-mindset. I think BBmolla is town, simply because when he's scum, he's pretty obviously scum and I wind up screaming for his death (at least in my experience with him).

That makes me think it's {theamateur > hitogoroshi} + {Zar = Kublai Khan > T-Bone}.

Huh? You weren't in a judging QT with MagnaofIllusion yesterday.

Town. Scum Reck would not have passively let partner Ajax get lynched when he had a chance to further push the Gaoth / Magua wagon he was on for a time Day 1.

Yeah, I agree with that. The one-time I was scum with xRECKONERx he defended me even though I was in a bad spot. I was wondering if you thought that maybe the V/LA--NC situation off-set that any.

[DeasVail]

I was making a list of the people off the Ajax wagon, which includes myself. Removing myself from the list feels underhanded.

Er... why?

Actually I was wrong about 558, sorry. Disregard that. On reread, I also don't think you voting magua was all that suspicious unless KK is scum, which I doubt.

[DeasVail]

My team is really inactive right now in the QT. With two of us dead, it's a ghost town.

Hmm?

[Zar]

@Hito

– please confirm that Group 1B gave out a Secret Doublevote Day 1 as TheAm has indicated.

I was also a member of that group and I can confirm that it was the Scummie we decided on awarding.

[xRECKONERx]

I did contend that on Day 2 KK did little in the way of scumhunting and instead chose to argue with MoI about his play. Personally I'm not interested in a player going out of his way to explain why his play is town. It's not for anyone to decide if they are town, it's the rest of the playerlist. I'm more interested in KK's own thoughts rather than his team's.

I posted my thoughts early in Day 2. Nobody cared much except for MagnaofIllusion. I'll re-read and post new thoguhts later tonight.

And if I don't agree with my teammates, then I don't post their thoughts.

I do believe MoI & DeasVail are both town. Through our interactions in our judging QT yesterday, the two of them both seemed VERY town, and the two of them devised a plan on how to decide who we'll be giving our award to that solely benefits from a town-mindset. I think BBmolla is town, simply because when he's scum, he's pretty obviously scum and I wind up screaming for his death (at least in my experience with him).

That makes me think it's {theamateur > hitogoroshi} + {Zar = Kublai Khan > T-Bone}.

Huh? You weren't in a judging QT with MagnaofIllusion yesterday.

Yeah sorry, was with MoI first, you this time. My brain's scattered.

My team is really inactive right now in the QT. With two of us dead, it's a ghost town.

Hmm?

The fuck does this add to the game other than fucking mental retardation

[DeasVail]

I am confused by what I quoted.

[xRECKONERx]

SDC. Two members are dead. I was asked what my team thought of this game. I responded.

Reading comprehension is TECH

[Zar]

I was making a list of the people off the Ajax wagon, which includes myself. Removing myself from the list feels underhanded.

Er... why?

If anyone wants to look into all players off the Ajax wagon, a complete list is more useful than one with players that have been removed from it.

[xRECKONERx]

Zar is scummy as all hell . You don't care about how you look to the town if you're town. The only reason to include yourself in that list is to not arouse suspicion. Looks like it backfired.

[DeasVail]

I didn't know Spyrex was dead, and didn't think that them being dead would make their team QT contributions significantly less, but ok.

Zar is scummy as all hell . You don't care about how you look to the town if you're town. The only reason to include yourself in that list is to not arouse suspicion. Looks like it backfired.

Agreed completely, but it's the only think I really find scummy about him.

[xRECKONERx]

You don't find his 3 days of IIoA scummy?

[DeasVail]

It doesn't look like IIoA to me, but I guess I'll have a closer look at his posts when I have more time.

[Zar]

dafuq is IIoA?

[Zar]

DeasVail make up your mind:

I didn't know Spyrex was dead, and didn't think that them being dead would make their team QT contributions significantly less, but ok.

Zar is scummy as all hell . You don't care about how you look to the town if you're town. The only reason to include yourself in that list is to not arouse suspicion. Looks like it backfired.

Agreed completely, but it's the only think I really find scummy about him.

Zar-

I think he could be scum. How he comes around to thinking Magua scum does seem suspicious. 558 is like "I voted for Magua so I better start attacking him", but sometimes he seems genuine. Question: Why were you so dramatic in your vote for Molla Day 1? Why did you leave yourself in the lists in 408?


Also, would it hurt to tell me what Best IC did? I'm curious.

Ok, if Zar's post voting for BBmolla was serious, then he's scummy, but saying BBmolla is lurky, probably can't come from scum. Can it?

[DeasVail]

In response to the first post: Information instead of analysis (I think)

In response to the second: Do you want me to vote you?

[DeasVail]

What

is

the point of 621 anyway?

[Zar]

What

is

the point of 621 anyway?

You keep back-pedaling.