TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Llamarble]

I'm not sure whether most of the scum were on it. That is what I am figuring out.
Falcon looks pretty darn town.

[singersigner]

Though I do agree with wondering why Llamarble felt the need to specify that he could provide "proof" of his absence...

Less bothered by that than I am the sheer emptiness of his play today.

What do you think of Socio's "emptiness" of play, with no explanation, nor offer of any reason for his absence/lack of participation?

For the record, Zach was not the only one who disagreed with the Amrun wagon, nor was he the only one to express its shittiness.

@CES...what do you think of Nacho's play today? You dropped Shea's push yesterday for Llamarble today...what's different now?

This whole argument re: Benmage coloring Shea in red when everyone else in red was a scum read and then claiming to never say/think Shea was scum is ridiculous. No he did not EXPLICITLY SAY that those in red were scum, but any reasonable person would assume that's what he was talking about when everyone else was mild-null scum. I could be convinced to move to Benmage today.

[Zachrulez]

What do you think of Socio's "emptiness" of play, with no explanation, nor offer of any reason for his absence/lack of participation?

I have a slate of four players that I think lynching gives the town a very strong chance of winning. Nacho, Llamarble, Benmage, and Sociopath are all on that slate. I'd be willing to lynch Socio with a viable wagon on him.

This whole argument re: Benmage coloring Shea in red when everyone else in red was a scum read and then claiming to never say/think Shea was scum is ridiculous. No he did not EXPLICITLY SAY that those in red were scum, but any reasonable person would assume that's what he was talking about when everyone else was mild-null scum. I could be convinced to move to Benmage today.

Thank you, that was basically my ENTIRE problem with it. Nacho's trying to turn it into me saying Benmage lied about putting the name in red or something stupid so that the entire context of the argument gets lost and makes it easier for him to paint me as scum.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm saying I expect him to do something productive in the meantime, or have a read that changes ever.
His D2 play is pretty much sitting his vote on me and arguing that the NK points to me.

This is wrong.
If I were you, I would get to catching up and stop talking about things you clearly haven't read.

For the record, Zach was not the only one who disagreed with the Amrun wagon, nor was he the only one to express its shittiness.

He didn't express its shittiness yesterday.

This whole argument re: Benmage coloring Shea in red when everyone else in red was a scum read and then claiming to never say/think Shea was scum is ridiculous. No he did not EXPLICITLY SAY that those in red were scum, but any reasonable person would assume that's what he was talking about when everyone else was mild-null scum. I could be convinced to move to Benmage today.

Three scumreads, lurker as backup.
That doesn't mean he should be forced to justify lurker and scumsuspect A as scum together.

[Nachomamma8]

Thank you, that was basically my ENTIRE problem with it. Nacho's trying to turn it into me saying Benmage lied about putting the name in red or something stupid so that the entire context of the argument gets lost and makes it easier for him to paint me as scum.

I don't think it's fair to say I'm ignoring the entire context of the argument.

You asked how Ben found CES and TSQ scum together.
Ben said he didn't have an opinion on TSQ yet.
You quoted a reads list where he put CES, TSQ, Amrun, and Bub under "remainders" in red lettering.
He noted the "remainders".
But you couldn't take that because he colored them red. Not because he had townreads on everyone else and because there were not many of them there, but because they were in red.

[Zachrulez]

For the record, Zach was not the only one who disagreed with the Amrun wagon, nor was he the only one to express its shittiness.

He didn't express its shittiness yesterday.

Nope. Totally Didn't.

It was pretty clear what I thought of it and that I didn't want to support it.

This whole argument re: Benmage coloring Shea in red when everyone else in red was a scum read and then claiming to never say/think Shea was scum is ridiculous. No he did not EXPLICITLY SAY that those in red were scum, but any reasonable person would assume that's what he was talking about when everyone else was mild-null scum. I could be convinced to move to Benmage today.

Three scumreads, lurker as backup.
That doesn't mean he should be forced to justify lurker and scumsuspect A as scum together.

He should just be allowed to be as vague as possible, because it makes people like me easy to attack when we try to interpret it, right?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

My #3 and #4 reads are also inactive fucks, 'marble, so what do you expect from me?

@CES...what do you think of Nacho's play today? You dropped Shea's push yesterday for Llamarble today...what's different now?

My read on that slot has only strengthened. But I've always had both of them as scum; I just went after Shea Yesterday because Llamarble didn't seem feasible.

[Zachrulez]

I also find the notion pretty hilarious that Nacho wants to argue that I could have prevented Amrun's lynch by being more vocally against it. If that was the case, then I should have also been able to get his slot lynched, but clearly that didn't happen either... (I WAS vocal about that one.)

[SocioPath]

I don't understand how in what in the where of Matias and Bub somehow being town.

'Oh hey it happened D1, DOESNT COUNT DOESNT COUNT. IM SAFE.'

...You mean the time where scum are more lax about the things they spew out of their mouth?
If you want to go back even farther, I've disliked Bub since his first posts his did.

And then Matias latched on him.

Also,

Also, socio's reads are total bullshit. He called two the consensus most townie players scumbuds.

I love this quote.

Unvote
Vote: Bub

The dynamic duo will be how we win this game.
The third doesn't even matter.

So I get that you were downsizing your play D1; was catching everyone calling you town for no reason part of the plan?

There are several players, whom, if called town by a player, that player is more likely to be scum.

It works the same way if they call me scum.

My play and play style intentionally 'makes it difficult for me to be read', so basing my theoretical alignment based on HOW I play is silly and a cop out to real reads.
It is the motivation behind the things I do that people should work out my alignment from.

Which makes Nacho a bit of a joke.

[Llamarble]

I don't find anybody in the middle of the Amrunwagon scummy.
Socio / Matias wouldn't have had any particular motive to protect TSQ since by the time they voted Amrun was already probably the lynch (TSQ never even placed a 1v1 survival vote).
Overall Nacho is probtown and scum likely didn't care which of those wagons lynched.

CES, Socio, Johhog, Benmage is where the scum live.

[Llamarble]

I'm saying I expect him to do something productive in the meantime, or have a read that changes ever.
His D2 play is pretty much sitting his vote on me and arguing that the NK points to me.

This is wrong.
If I were you, I would get to catching up and stop talking about things you clearly haven't read.

I looked through and other than him calling Singer town I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I'll get through a deeper readcycle tonight.

[Llamarble]

My #3 and #4 reads are also inactive fucks, 'marble, so what do you expect from me?

@CES...what do you think of Nacho's play today? You dropped Shea's push yesterday for Llamarble today...what's different now?

My read on that slot has only strengthened. But I've always had both of them as scum; I just went after Shea Yesterday because Llamarble didn't seem feasible.

If you're town I expect you to stop misreading me and vote someplace useful.
Town don't cop out to who is feasible instead of trying really hard to find the one person who :will: flip scum and lynching them though.
Especially not for a long period of time while the player they chose to vote isn't even there.
You are doing your CES be terse and snarky thing but there isn't townmind behind your path

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Town don't cop out to who is feasible instead of trying really hard to find the one person who :will: flip scum and lynching them though.

Weren't you complaining about me not being practical enough like 5 seconds ago? And I've learned my lesson with regards to what you're saying long ago; don't give me that idealist nonsense.

You are doing your CES be terse and snarky thing but there isn't townmind behind your path

Why is me being terse and snarky relevant? And do you see a scum mind behind my path?

[Llamarble]

The path I don't like is instead of trying really hard to find the scummiest scumbag and lynch them and then compromising as lynchtime approached, you voted for the easier lynch on a lurker for a long time which had no votee to respond and made the day more boring. So you were practical about lynchchoice prematurely and impractical about helping smash things up / making the day useful.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I HAVE RETURNED.
If anybody actually thinks I was lurking tactically, I am happy to provide a list of the things I've done in the last 10 days.

Why do you feel the need to offer that?

Maybe this?

Sorry about not posting. I've been following the game, but I don't really have much to say when my number 1 scumread right now is lurking. Do you hear that Llmarble? Get the fuck in here.

Or possibly something from another game and I got mixed up.

You haven't answered the question.

[Llamarble]

Well I had some votes on me when I came back and figured that might be related to lurking or saw some people had said some things.
Don't precisely remember my mind-state, honestly.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.10

Llamarble (3) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Captain Falcon, Zachrulez
Cogito Ergo Sum (2) - Benmage, Llamarble
Zachrulez (2) - Nachomamma8, Bub Bidderskins
Benmage (1) - Johhog
Bub Bidderskins (1) - SocioPath
Nachomamma8 (1) - singersigner

Not Voting (1) - Matias

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Sunday, June 3, 2012, at 7:08 PM EDT (UTC-4).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

The path I don't like is instead of trying really hard to find the scummiest scumbag and lynch them and then compromising as lynchtime approached, you voted for the easier lynch on a lurker for a long time which had no votee to respond and made the day more boring. So you were practical about lynchchoice prematurely and impractical about helping smash things up / making the day useful.

I think keeping the pressure up on shea was plenty useful - certainly more useful than a lone vote on you or benmage (second vote on benmage, I think, but no meaningful associated pressure). It's not like I had shea that much lower on the totemscum pole either + pretty sure I got pretty close to grinding out a Shealynch.

[singersigner]

The path I don't like is instead of trying really hard to find the scummiest scumbag and lynch them and then compromising as lynchtime approached, you voted for the easier lynch on a lurker for a long time which had no votee to respond and made the day more boring. So you were practical about lynchchoice prematurely and impractical about helping smash things up / making the day useful.

I think keeping the pressure up on shea was plenty useful - certainly more useful than a lone vote on you or benmage (second vote on benmage, I think, but no meaningful associated pressure). It's not like I had shea that much lower on the totemscum pole either +

pretty sure I got pretty close to grinding out a Shealynch.

@Llamarble...what makes CES's vote/push on Shea any different than mine? I never once moved my vote after that and pushed rather consistently/hard, yet that doesn't seem to be a problem for you.

bolded:

You certainly got SO CLOSE. -_-

My #3 and #4 reads are also inactive fucks, 'marble, so what do you expect from me?

@CES...what do you think of Nacho's play today? You dropped Shea's push yesterday for Llamarble today...what's different now?

My read on that slot has only strengthened. But I've always had both of them as scum; I just went after Shea Yesterday because Llamarble didn't seem feasible.

I'm assuming this means you find him equally, if not more, scummy...though maybe I shouldn't assume because clearly that upsets people >_>). Do you not feel a Nacho lynch is equally feasible today? What about his play do you find scummy?

@Socio...I'm not quite sure I follow this:

There are several players, whom, if called town by a player, that player is more likely to be scum.

It works the same way if they call me scum.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm assuming this means you find him equally, if not more, scummy...though maybe I shouldn't assume because clearly that upsets people >_>). Do you not feel a Nacho lynch is equally feasible today? What about his play do you find scummy?

Yeah, I find Llamarble slightly scummier (that's who you mean by "him", right?). Nacholynch is probably still feasible at deadline but otherwise I suspect a Nachowagon would be perceived as not going anywhere due to stuff. His attack on Zach seems very weak to me, especially the bit about the red text and how easily he dismissed the Zachtownteammafiameta argument.

[singersigner]

Oh...I was talking about Nacho the whole time...

But ok, same page...understood, and agree re: attack on Zach.

unvote

Now that I've been paying more attention to Benmage, I could strongly be convinced of Benmagescum. I don't like that he lumped Shea in with "others" while proclaiming that 3/4 "others" were scum reads (colors aside), then denying any sort of a read on Shea.

@Zach...I feel like we could learn information from 3/4 of those...I have a fairly strong town read on Socio, and while I felt that he was entirely accurate last year, I don't feel like lynching him is the right choice. I'd rather lynch Bub, in all honesty.

vote: Benmage

[singersigner]

Also, I don't think anyone noticed this, but for the sake of less confusion later, in my post 976, I meant that he was calling everyone else mild-null TOWN*, not scum.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Why is me being terse and snarky relevant? And do you see a scum mind behind my path?

Do answer these too, 'marble.

[Llamarble]

You're going through the same motions you usually go through as town, but instead of smashing things up you've been sitting your vote in places that weren't biting back because it's easier.

Scum want to be on losing wagons that they can look like they legitimately believe in, and voting lurkers who are likely to show up and push the lynch away are good options for that.

[Nachomamma8]

Zach, do you have recent scum meta of you as a lone wolf?