TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[singersigner]

@Llamarble...what makes CES's vote/push on Shea any different than mine? I never once moved my vote after that and pushed rather consistently/hard, yet that doesn't seem to be a problem for you.

[singersigner]

This just in: CES reads are Nuwen-approved.

unvote
vote: Llamarble

Nacho can wait til tomorrow even though I'm grumpy that this slot is getting away yet again.

[Llamarble]

If X is scum for Y then why isn't Z scum for Y is a usually useless argument that pretty much always has the same answer.
Context.
To put it bluntly, I expected more from CES than sitting his vote for flimsy reasons on people who aren't posting and never reevaluating.
You-town aggressively tunneling TSQ despite him having basically no posts I can buy, and you have a lot of other town-feeling posts.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

You're going through the same motions you usually go through as town, but instead of smashing things up you've been sitting your vote in places that weren't biting back because it's easier.

I would just ask you a similar question here. The first part here is unconnected to the second part; you're not drawing any conclusions from it but it's in there in some vague accusatory manner regardless.

Scum want to be on losing wagons that they can look like they legitimately believe in, and voting lurkers who are likely to show up and push the lynch away are good options for that.

I posit to you that the shealynch would've gone through if Amrun hadn't been V/LA at the end there, so I very much question the relevance of this.

[singersigner]

I find that usually if two people are doing the "same thing," people are at least able to distinguish between the two and comment on them accordingly. At least Nacho had specified why he felt Zach was different than me, even though I thoroughly disagree, whereas you simply brought up one person. It seemed suspicious that you DID only bring up one of us.

It sounds like you think me asking "why him and not me" was completely irrelevant, though.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Are you just basing your meta calls off of games we've played together, 'marble?

[Llamarble]

I went and read some of your other games a couple weeks ago.

Singer, I've called you or things you've done town at various points throughout the game I'm pretty sure.
I don't feel any particular need to explain townreads on people who have done similar things to people I think are scum.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Did you read Marius and Sulla?

[Llamarble]

I went and looked for your recent scumgames and some recent towngames.
I don't really remember the names of the games though; I was looking for tone and how you used your vote and stuff or something.
I'll probably look through again soonish, but I have a lot of other people to reread.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

How many of my scum games would you say you've read?

[Zachrulez]

Scum want to be on losing wagons that they can look like they legitimately believe in, and voting lurkers who are likely to show up and push the lynch away are good options for that.

I posit to you that the shealynch would've gone through if Amrun hadn't been V/LA at the end there, so I very much question the relevance of this.

You can get more basic than that and say his vote was key in getting Amrun lynched and in avoiding Shealynch.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I was expecting him to vote for Amrun if he had the chance though.

[Zachrulez]

I was expecting him to vote for Amrun if he had the chance though.

I'm basing that opinion on pure bandwagon analysis. TSQ was the leading wagon when he tied it up, which made Amrun a viable lynch.

Having a lot of trouble reconciling his stance on TSQ in that post vs this one.

The shift looks very unnatural to me and is the biggest thing that bothers me about Llama right now.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.11

Llamarble (4) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Captain Falcon, Zachrulez, singersigner
Cogito Ergo Sum (2) - Benmage, Llamarble
Zachrulez (2) - Nachomamma8, Bub Bidderskins
Benmage (1) - Johhog
Bub Bidderskins (1) - SocioPath

Not Voting (1) - Matias

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Sunday, June 3, 2012, at 7:08 PM EDT (UTC-4).

[Llamarble]

I'd say it was 2 or 3 scumgames and 3 or 4 towngames, looking mainly at your ISOs except when figuring out what something was about.

Shea didn't even vote Amrun, so the wagons weren't :that: close.
I tend to change my mind a little more violently than most people.
What do you think was unnatural about my shift on TSQ?

[Zachrulez]

Basically the whole suspect em when they lurk and then call them town when they become active is not something I have an easy time finding examples for from town, but a lot easier to find when it comes from scum. (Because what leads you to suspect a lurker is not likely to be something that will be completely alleviated with one spat of activity.)

[Llamarble]

Well it was.
He dropped a couple of town-being-run-up tells.
If anything I'd expect scum to try and drive a lynch home and town to be more likely to rethink things, but that doesn't really matter.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'd say it was 2 or 3 scumgames and 3 or 4 towngames, looking mainly at your ISOs except when figuring out what something was about.

You'd think Marius and Sulla would stand out then as the only recent scum game you would actually find. One after that is close to a year old; that's ages ago.

[Llamarble]

I do remember having to go back far for scumgames.
I might have missed Marius and Sulla because there isn't any trivial place where your alignment is identified.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

So when you called them "recent scumgames" earlier, that was a symptom of you not really having put any effort into looking at my scum meta, right?

Also, regardless of which games you looked at exactly, I'm pretty sure my play this game would compare positively to scum games of mine from a year back.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Okay, right now I think singer, matias, nacho, falcon, and johhog are town.

I could be convinced to lynch any of zach, llamarble, CES, socio, or benmage, with a preference to zach or llamarble.

[Llamarble]

^ Semantic Bull Crap.
Recent as in I go search your topics and go through your games until I find a few where you were scum and a few where you were town. I remembered having to search for awhile after you reminded me.

If anything this whole line of inquiry is a symptom of me not immediately going back and looking at the games again, which pretty much confirms me as town simply because I don't play off the top of my head as scum when I don't recall something clearly. When I'm scum, I am very good at reconstructing a clear thought process behind everything.
Townies who are voting me really need to vote actual scum.

MoI also just reminded me that he offered me Dr Who mafia when I was looking for stuff.


VOTE: Benmage
THIS IS THE PATH.
Benmage has been passive all game after shifting his reads list around some on D1.
He keeps his vote on CES without pushing, CES lists him as scum without voting him.

Ben

, can you explain the Amrun, Johhog, CES and Socio town reads for me?

CES for his reasoning why Johhog is town, double confirmed them both.
Amrun because he feels genuine. I mean shit he looks real obvious.
SP gut.

He didn't read what CES said about Johhog carefully but called both of them clear town for it.
He has been buddying me for unclear reasons all game.
I haven't had access enough to be obvllamatown till now.
And he does love being scum.

[singersigner]

Okay, right now I think singer, matias, nacho, falcon, and johhog are town.

I could be convinced to lynch any of zach, llamarble, CES, socio, or benmage, with a preference to zach or llamarble.

You could just hop on Llamarble's wagon since it's the only viable lynch of the options you've provided for yourself.

[Llamarble]

Ugh, I am actually in danger of getting mislynched again.

I could be convinced to lynch llamarble.

Why?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

^ Semantic Bull Crap.
Recent as in I go search your topics and go through your games until I find a few where you were scum and a few where you were town. I remembered having to search for awhile after you reminded me.

"After" being the important word there; I would expect the inadequacy of the scum meta you found to be something you'd be aware of as town and maybe not so much as scum.

If anything this whole line of inquiry is a symptom of me not immediately going back and looking at the games again, which pretty much confirms me as town simply because I don't play off the top of my head as scum when I don't recall something clearly. When I'm scum, I am very good at reconstructing a clear thought process behind everything.
Townies who are voting me really need to vote actual scum.

I see no evidence that you didn't go back and look nor do I see why you'd expect trouble; you did do the meta research after all, no?