TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.13

Llamarble (4) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Captain Falcon, Zachrulez, singersigner
Benmage (2) - Johhog, Llamarble
Zachrulez (2) - Nachomamma8, Bub Bidderskins
Bub Bidderskins (1) - SocioPath
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - Benmage

Not Voting (1) - Matias

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Sunday, June 3, 2012, at 7:08 PM EDT (UTC-4).

[Johhog]

I like the push for Benmage, it's nice to see someone understanding it.

As for Llamarble, he reads null to me. I'm not sure I even understand what the case is against him. Lurking?

[singersigner]

He has the :SHIFTY EYES:

[SocioPath]

@Socio...I'm not quite sure I follow this:

There are several players, whom, if called town by a player, that player is more likely to be scum.

It works the same way if they call me scum.

Scum call certain people town to keep them at bay and off of their asses.
Or use it to blindly dismiss a scum buddy.
Regardless of how that "town" player is behaving.

Its one of the reasons why I love lists of reads from peoples so much.

[Zachrulez]

Zach, do you have recent scum meta of you as a lone wolf?

Please stop intentionally or unintentionally ignoring my questions.

What does this mean? A game where I was the only remaining scum? You'd have to go WAY back if that's what you're asking.

Where you were scum as Zachrulez, and not hydraing with Sotty.

In that case it would be Paranoia Mafia. I was in the game as Sottyrulez, but I was the only one playing.

[Matias]

I'm leaving singer alone due to Nacho's replacement and her backing off of him.

I'm also not sure what the case is against Llamarble. I know this is a short statement, but I really can't comment on anything else except for the Zach vs. Nacho back and forth, in which case I'd need to look at that somewhat closer.

[Matias]

Socio, I'm also not sure why you backed off on your read on me. It feels fake because of that.

[Matias]

Sorry I haven't been around for the record, I haven't been home for a while and I didn't really want to catch up right away on this game.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Ugh, I am actually in danger of getting mislynched again.

I could be convinced to lynch llamarble.

Why?

I really didn't like your jump on the TSQ wagon on D-1. I felt it was very weak and convenient. Then you jumped on the Amrun wagon when it got large. I really don't like those wagon hops.

[Llamarble]

I move my vote around a lot more than most people because I rethink things pretty often.
If you look at my ISO you'll note that I was wary of both of them for some time before I voted them.
I liked that the Amrun wagon was growing fast and that my vote made 3 in a row because it smashed things up and made the game less boring, which helps town. It was obviously going to get me attention, so I don't think my vote was 'convenient' at all. Same goes for my TSQ vote which came before / after I was attacking his wagon and the people on it.

Go look through my ISO. I have tried to figure out this game and have cared who got lynched.
I have been a starter or primary driver of several wagons because of this.
I've attacked and annoyed a lot of different people including hard to lynch don't-want-them-after-you players like CES.
My reads have gone back and forth on people in a way that has little or no point for scum and is hard to fake.
I think a lot of specific thought processes I've gone through are unlikely from scum and will start running through them if needbe.
These are a lot of the biggest real differences between town and scum these days, and Benmage has done zero of these things.

[singersigner]

I have been a starter or primary driver of several wagons because of this.

Can you list exactly what wagons you feel you've had a crucial part in starting and/or pushing?

[Llamarble]

Captain Haddock wagon I started.
CES wagon I have been the primary pusher of all game.
And now Benmage.

[Johhog]

That's... three? Wouldn't that be close to average of how many wagons people have pushed?

Or are you referring to wagons you started? Because then you did only start Haddock's wagon IIRC while I, for example, who hasn't been that active started both the wagons on Amrun and Benmage.

[Captain Falcon]

I move my vote around a lot more than most people because I rethink things pretty often.
If you look at my ISO you'll note that I was wary of both of them for some time before I voted them.
I liked that the Amrun wagon was growing fast and that my vote made 3 in a row because it smashed things up and made the game less boring, which helps town. It was obviously going to get me attention, so I don't think my vote was 'convenient' at all. Same goes for my TSQ vote which came before / after I was attacking his wagon and the people on it.

Go look through my ISO. I have tried to figure out this game and have cared who got lynched.
I have been a starter or primary driver of several wagons because of this.
I've attacked and annoyed a lot of different people including hard to lynch don't-want-them-after-you players like CES.
My reads have gone back and forth on people in a way that has little or no point for scum and is hard to fake.
I think a lot of specific thought processes I've gone through are unlikely from scum and will start running through them if needbe.
These are a lot of the biggest real differences between town and scum these days, and Benmage has done zero of these things.

Llmarble, the fact that you recignite all of that is what make me question your alignment.
I don't like the fact that once pressure you start going into this look at all the things I've done!! mode.

Also, the original statement that brought about the question you answered with nomination mafia and the other one is the one I think is engineered. The "oh I am going to get mislynched again" statement. Scum say that a lot. Hell in my last scum game I was on the verge of being lynched and I said "if I am going to get mislynched by deadline so be it".

It is exactly the type of statement that a scumbag would say to get people to see the "motivation" behind the posts.

[singersigner]

Captain Haddock wagon I started.
CES wagon I have been the primary pusher of all game.
And now Benmage.

I completely disagree with Benmage. I really feel like Johhog has been both the primary starter and pusher of that wagon.

Captain Haddock, you started, but also jumped ship relatively quickly...to Shea, whom you left for Amrun as soon as Shea's wagon was bigger than hers.

I'll admit that you have been focused on CES at least somewhat the whole time, you've also been very flaky about him.

[Zachrulez]

I haven't seen Llamarble make anything close to a convincing argument about why CES is scum. Ditto Benmage.

Kinda at that point where I really don't have much more to say and anything I would say would pretty much be filler...

... Lynch Llamarble, ect.

[Llamarble]

Once I am threatened with being lynched, I ask people to actually read my stuff I've done and stop being stupid?
What an incredibly scummy thing to do!
Surely I haven't done that practically every time I've ever been run up as town.

That statement was more of an 'okay better get my ass in gear' than it was anything else.
My annoyance was due to the fact that I've been run up several times recently and don't really have time to properly defend myself.
I have no idea how getting people to see motivation behind posts is relevant.

Singer, starting wagons and jumping ship quickly is something I'm much more likely to do as town.
There just isn't an incentive to abandon perfectly good wagons as scum.
I've been Flaky about CES? WHAT
Maybe I Obama Peaceprized a bit on Benmage, but my point was that I have not just picked my favorite of the day's viable wagons and attempted to make a lynch out of it but rather have come to my own conclusions and tried to force them through. Benmage wagon had one vote when I joined it.
What is your opinion of Benmage and my case on him?

Zach, what do you find unimpressive about my Benmage/CES cases?

[Zachrulez]

I'm unimpressed with you calling CES scum. I don't mind lynching Benmage. (Actually prefer it, but I'd be dividing the wagons without a clear path to a Benmage lynch.)

[Llamarble]

Well you may as well vote him then and deadline in a few days will make either me or him get lynched, so there's not really anything to lose.

[Zachrulez]

... Screw it. Best way to find out if it's viable is to put my vote there.

Unvote: Vote: Benmage

Mind you I think Benmage AND Llamarble are both great lynches, it's just a preference issue at this point.

[Benmage]

P.S. the notion that MoS being on benmage's team is somehow incongruous with him being useless is nonsensical. And the person I'd most expect to care would be benmage if he were scum.

Thank you. Anyone worth 2 cents should have written me down as conftown long ago.

That said, quite comical I get some votes after promising to get my act together this weekend.

[Benmage]

What is your opinion of Benmage and my case on him?

Can you tell me the post of said case?

[Zachrulez]

P.S. the notion that MoS being on benmage's team is somehow incongruous with him being useless is nonsensical. And the person I'd most expect to care would be benmage if he were scum.

Thank you. Anyone worth 2 cents should have written me down as conftown long ago.

That said, quite comical I get some votes after promising to get my act together this weekend.

That's not a significant factor in my vote.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Llamarble, question: you've kept your vote on me for significant periods of time - what was it supposed to accomplish?

Maybe I Obama Peaceprized a bit on Benmage, but my point was that I have not just picked my favorite of the day's viable wagons and attempted to make a lynch out of it but rather have come to my own conclusions and tried to force them through. Benmage wagon had one vote when I joined it.

And yet it was the most viable counterwagon to your lynch you could've joined.

[Nachomamma8]

P.S. the notion that MoS being on benmage's team is somehow incongruous with him being useless is nonsensical. And the person I'd most expect to care would be benmage if he were scum.

Thank you. Anyone worth 2 cents should have written me down as conftown long ago.

That said, quite comical I get some votes after promising to get my act together this weekend.

The deadline is Sunday, June 3, 2012, at 7:08 PM EDT (UTC-4).