Heroes of Comedy Game Over - He who laughs last!

[Korlash]

Buddy her more.

I would if I could.

Okay, fine. Will read it tomorrow. But if you expect my strong scumreads to change you are out of your mind. As I saisd in my original catchup post, my reads on these people are SO STRONG that I would have daykilled them after reading the first 10 pages, had I possessed such an ability.

Just a question since I must have missed it, were Scott and Pere scum reads from the first 10 pages as well, or did they just become scum reads after you saw posts from them recently?

[HezLucky]

You're obviously not reading. {LOL IRONY LOL OLOL YEAH I GET IT}

Every single read of mine at this point in the game is based on the first 10 pages. {except my scumread on Peregrine has strengthened}

[HezLucky]

I have decided I will read chunks of the game while continuing to be active, so that I am not taken out. Now I have read up to page SEVENTEEN.

Starting from Post 230:

Jester #232 is interesting if he actually does it. Or a ballsy gambit.

Korlash #246

On a more serious note, no one has accumulated enough to deserve my vote at the moment

Are you serious? By this point in the game I have reads on nearly everyone, and two incredibly strong scumreads [one on you]. LOL FENCESITTING.

I've already stated how I respect MoI's ability to scumhunt (after Berlin Divided, which I have read in full) but how he tends to tunnel on town excessively as well. He got "one of Benmage/Fate is maf" correct and, in Post #256, he points out pappums rat, who hasn't done much up to that point in the game. He also alludes to Yates being "dumb town", and had attacked Scott Brosius' slot earlier. I largely feel better about all my reads every time he seemingly validates them =D.

Fate #258 says the scum is in [Knox, Pere, Vijay, Istark] - I agree. The scum are Knox and Pere, along with Korlash here. CMON PEOPLE, WHY WAS FATE KILLED? IF HE WAS A TOWN LEADER GETTING STUFF WRONG HE WOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT ALIVE ONE MORE DAY. I can definitely see there being 2 mafia in his list of 4.

Pizzadudes #272 reads as mad town though :S. This makes pappums vote in #277 strange. Pappums also declares that he is "confident benmage is town" in this post, something that would be reasonable to do as Benmage looked town up to that point, but is damning given the flip.

Hey look, Korlash #282 is bussing Peregrine.

AND MAGNA VOTES PAPPUMS. I'm surprised my read on someone has actually changed to scum wow.

Korlash and Benmage are once again spamming the game on Page 11 trying to do a back-and-forth to distance themselves. Oh god. Korlash and Benmage are interacting with each other way too much given that NEITHER OF THEM ARE VOTING THE OTHER. This is unnatural, forced interaction. THIS IS A MOVE TO CREATE TOWN APATHY. TOWN APATHY KILLS GAMES.

TML is obvtown. Replaced into the iStark slot which was obvtown. #322 are good questions. I also vaguely remember TML as being a good player. Fucking sweet.

I don't understand PeregrineV #336. He doesn't actually state why he's voting for Korlash (ie. why it makes Korlash scum). In other words, this looks like a bus/distancing.

WHERE IS KNOX? MY OTHER SCUMREAD HAS DISAPPEARED. I HAVE NOT READ ANYTHING FROM HIM IN OVER 100 POSTS!

I think the debate between Benmage and Korlash looks like town vs. town.

This post makes me do a doubletake if pappums is maf Korlash probably isn't.

And I love love love TML's refusal to get off the vijay questioning in #364. Vijay is town

but TML is MORE TOWN THAN YOU.

@MoI-
Who are town and why?
Who are scum and why?

Once again, MoI has CLEARLY mentioned (he has been EXTREMELY obvious about it) who he thinks the potential mafia are. This is just an attempt to look useful by Peregrine.

---On #401---

SCUM -
[consider a questino mark to be, like, half a non-question mark]

Korlash scumscumscumscumscum [unlikely to be scum with Vijay] [not scum with pappumsrat]
knox/zeek/Scott Brosius scumscumscum
PeregrineV scum
pappumsrat town?scum?scum [not scum with Korlash]
Pizzadudes7/spitfarvle scum?town?
Jester/MattP/Tammy BE USEFUL
Yates town
Vijay town
iStark/TML towntown

[vijay2vasandani]

Where's the customary HEZZZZZZZWAVREEEE?

[splitfarvle]

I kinda like Hez so far but would love it if he at least read to the end of day 1 at least.

Peregrine has some decent points about Hez, but this is not a good lynch for today. We worry about split/hez tomorrow, Korlash for today. (We have T-shirts. Only $22.99 plus shipping and handling.)

What do you actually think about Hez? Which of Pere's points are decent, and if they're decent why do you "kinda like" Hez?

[HezLucky]

Where's the customary HEZZZZZZZWAVREEEE?

HEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZWAVRE

[PeregrineV]

@Korlash- I'm curious why your 797 doesn't equate ignorance with distancing. As a matter for fact, you use only question marks, not even something like a wild card point.

Using a non-math based system, what type of interactions do you find between BenMage and HezLucky, Scott slot and Tammy slot?

[Tammy]

Okay Korlash. I had a chance to go through your ISO today (not completely I took a short break from work and need to look some more). Here are a few examples of what I was talking about with you and Ben. Your conversations don't seem like townies who are trying to figure out each other, they feel staged to show that your interacting, ie...distancing...

Post 54
Post 57
Post 60
Post 303

Now to be fair, I notice a similar type of conversational practice with a lot of people so it's not necessarily evident of distancing but I also don't get a sense of you really trying to figure out who the scum are. And I got to your reasoning for voting MoI, and it hit me one of the reasons I just didn't like it. It's not that the reasoning itself was inherently bad, because everything you wrote in your reasoning was correct. And, that's part of my problem...it's too shallow. You recited the evidence of what happened. You talked about the wagon, and the people on the wagon, you talked about possible vote count analysis, then you talk about his claim and what this possibly means and what he says. All of this is correct; you have all the facts straight. So, we have:

Go for it mate. Vote analysis, set-up speculation, and recent events all say you should be lynched. You can't scare me off...

All of these verifiable things say MoI should be lynched. You don't try to assess the behavior behind the verifiables which makes it a really shallow way of scumhunting. The thing is that scum tend to hunt here because it's a safe place to hunt. So, they focus on word choice, slips and contradictions that they can turn into proof of someone's guilt, vote counts and wagon analysis, etc. All of these things can be proven in the thread, so when a mislynch occurs they get to point back to the evidence and say "But, the evidence pointed to them being guilty!" Sure, some town hunt this way too but usually town tries to find the motivations and the whys behind the actions...they tend to try to find the intent of the person...or get a sense of the person overall...and this is because town doesn't know anything so it's more natural whereas scum "scum" hunting tends to be mechanical, shallow, or verifiable. It's one of the reasons why so many of the arguments in mafia are townvtown, because people perceive things differently and as town you judge by your perceptions, so naturally disagreements will arise between town members. Your recent wagon analysis feels like the type of mechanical hunting, with the exception of the Ben ISO - I like that. I just don't get a sense of looking beneath the surface very often.

So, even in your discussion with me, which has been fun cuz I like talking and stuff, it feels the same way. I don't feel like you're trying to actually determine whether or not I'm scum but discussing things with me and pointing out interpretations of things I say to show why it might be a scum tell. So, you said I was possibly threatening VJ with the "If you're town...", which sorry still can't get to, I gave a scum tell by saying the Fate death didn't look good for you and a long reason why, you gave me play style theory advice, argued semantics, and discussed MoI's gambit, etc. But, I don't get a real sense of you trying to figure me out, but trying to figure out what I've said and what I said means. Even in the suspicion list where you have me at number four, it's for something you can verify. I haven't done a lot of progress, I didn't point out the Ben stuff (though I really shouldn't have to), I didn't unvote you immediately and said later I didn't want to leave you at L-1. You jump to looking at a scum motivation for me to do that, but never think of a possible town motivation regardless of the fact that you should have been able to determine whether or not I might have town motivation so far. Your more recent response to me concerning the people you suspect felt more natural as it looked like you were looking at behaviors and the whys, so I will give you that.

As I said, some town do hunt the way that I've said, so I'm not saying that this means you're for sure definite scum. I don't know what is typical for you and some of your responses to your impending lynch have felt genuine.

[Korlash]

Experiment time! - Time is now! la la la!

*Disclaimer:

I cut your stuff up into sizable chunks so I could tackle each issue one at a time. If you feel I missed responding to something or took something out of context, or anything else by doing this, please let me know as this was not my intention. Don't feel the need to quote/comment on every separate thing I've said here, feel free to return us back to something a little less wally if you want. I needed to do it this way because there was a lot you said and I wanted each issue to have it's own space to mature.

** to those who don't want to read this

or whatever your problem is I think it's drastically important you know how little I care. Go play checkers or something if the basis of how this game operates is too difficult for you.

As I said, some town do hunt the way that I've said, so I'm not saying that this means you're for sure definite scum. I don't know what is typical for you and some of your responses to your impending lynch have felt genuine.

Typical for me is a hard question. When it comes to the three-pronged skill list regarding a mafia player, I might excel at the Political/Deceptive sides but I fail miserably at the Deductive side. When I'm scum, I can BS a case to look good, but as town my odds of actually hitting scum via scum hunting is barely 50/50 if that. To make up for my lack of detective skills, I tend to delve into the mathematical side and speculative side as much as possible since it's what I'm better at. You can say what you want about my math, but I at least proved my skill via speculation with MoI's fakeclaim. You can say whatever you want about me or what the event says about my alignment, but I caught him fakeclaiming which should be proof enough I'm not lying when I say I have some skill in this area.

Tl;Dr, this is how I play as town. Put me in a theme game after a mass claim, or a 5+ day long mini in LYLO and I'll show you why.

All of these verifiable things say MoI should be lynched. You don't try to assess the behavior behind the verifiables which makes it a really shallow way of scumhunting.

He fakeclaimed, and pulled a gambit I felt town had no reason to do. Those combine to form a rather damning piece of evidence on their own. You can say I was shallow or whatever, but this fact alone made MoI lynch worthy. And I feel I continued to pry into it after I voted him to ensure my feelings were accurate. From my perspective, my 'scum hunting' towards MoI (at least after his fakedclaim) was not shallow at all.

So, they focus on word choice, slips and contradictions that they can turn into proof of someone's guilt, vote counts and wagon analysis, etc. All of these things can be proven in the thread, so when a mislynch occurs they get to point back to the evidence and say "But, the evidence pointed to them being guilty!"

If memory serves, more than a few of the people voting me at the moment have used 'contradiction' or some form of 'word choice' as a basis for their vote/suspicions.

To your point, I've been in this game for 35 pages and have only used my wagon/vote analysis twice if I count correctly. EVEN then, I based nothing solely on them (as Rat would be so ready to point out I still have not commuted to a 'target') Even if you say scum use Vote/Wagon analysis as easy ways to justify their votes or push mislynches, isn't it true I haven't done that?

Sure, some town hunt this way too but usually town tries to find the motivations and the whys behind the actions...

Are you saying I haven't been?

and this is because town doesn't know anything so it's more natural whereas scum "scum" hunting tends to be mechanical, shallow, or verifiable.

I'm the opposite. Maybe it's because my talents lie in being deceptive (lol... lie, get it? ha ha ha). Knowing things as scum let's me craft a workable case/evidence and makes my attacks/cases seem better than they are. As town, i can't fabricate evidence, so I have to rely on the more mechanical side otherwise I tend to be more or less useless. My one flaw I suppose. (Well, one of many...)

I just don't get a sense of looking beneath the surface very often.

I don't tend to look beneath the surface (assuming we both interpret that phrase to mean the same thing), I play for the moment which means being active and part of the discussion as it is happening. It's why I always favor replying to new posts over looking over ISOs. I can reread a thread until the cows come home, but I play better and feel I get reads better as I actually interact with people.

I don't feel like you're trying to actually determine whether or not I'm scum but discussing things with me and pointing out interpretations of things I say to show why it might be a scum tell.

I determine if you are scum by discussing things with you and pointing out interpretations of things you say (when applicable) to in turn judge your reaction/response. Exactly what aren't I supposedly doing that you feel is important in determining whether you are scum or not?

But, I don't get a real sense of you trying to figure me out, but trying to figure out what I've said and what I said means.

Again, I don't get it. I figure you out by figuring out what the things you say mean and why you said them. If you're town, what you say and the reasons for saying them would be town oriented while if you're scum it would be the opposite. How do I get a real sense of a person in a forum game that goes post by post except by analyzing what they say, how they said it, why they said it, etc? I don't understand what it is you feel I am not doing or not doing properly... :\

though I really shouldn't have to

You shouldn't have to point out links between me and the dead scum? Why? That is very much something you should have to do.

You jump to looking at a scum motivation for me to do that, but never think of a possible town motivation regardless of the fact that you should have been able to determine whether or not I might have town motivation so far.

If you're town, you will give me the town motivation for why you did it. End of story. If I see something I think is scummy, and the player is town, won't they then be able to give me a valid, reasonable, response to my suspicions? Wouldn't a town be able to explain their actions? What does me assuming your town motivation do for the game? What does it accomplish? Nothing. Pointing out something suspicious and letting that player explain it themselves accomplished a great deal. (I hope it's obvious enough that I don't have to list out any and all possible reasons to do such a thing...)

And for the record, I don't JUMP to looking at scum motivations for anything. I see something, and if it appears to be what I think scum would do, I run with it. if it appears to be something town would do, I trust in that. And if it's something I have no idea why someone would do, I question it. There are always exceptions, and 'trusting' something doesn't mean I ignore it or anything like that, but overall this seems to me to be a fairly good way of approaching the game. (scum hunting wise)

Your more recent response to me concerning the people you suspect felt more natural as it looked like you were looking at behaviors and the whys, so I will give you that.

My analysis may rank and file my suspects but it hardly defines them.

It's not that the reasoning itself was inherently bad, because everything you wrote in your reasoning was correct. And, that's part of my problem...it's too shallow.

What do you mean by 'it's too shallow'? My conclusions over MoI's claim for instance was correct 9and I'm very proud of that) but I do not think I failed in any sense to delve into the possible reasons for his fakeclaim. If there had been ANY town motivation in it, I might not have came to the same conclusion about his alignment that I had. As I said with MoI, I am very good at doing 'plans' and shit like this, so seeing a fakeclaim on it's own is not scum worthy to me. it's seeing his fakeclaim WHILE having no town (in his case, he appeared to have scum motivation) motivation behind it.

I could not predict he would physically concoct a flawed and worthless plan, thus I wasn't able to account for that possibility.

All in all, I feel I was very deep regarding that whole thing. So this brings me once again to my inquiry... What did you mean by it being shallow?


Regarding your Ben links: There is really nothing to say unless you want to get specific. I can't sit here and tell you why I said everything I said to Ben, it's pointless and a waste of time. if you can tell me HOW or WHERE they appear to be staged, or give me some specifics as to how they would actually help two scum 'distance', then perhaps I can tell you my side of things and we can start a discussion on them.

I KNOW these posts aren't distancing, because I made them. So I at the very least feel my explanations should help alleviate some of the suspicion but I've been put in an awkward spot where all I can actually respond to you is the phrase "No they aren't." it's hardly a fitting discussion wouldn't you say? Considering I could very well be mislynched specifically for these 'possible buddy links', I kinda feel it's important we take this time to discuss them.

[Korlash]

@Korlash- I'm curious why your 797 doesn't equate ignorance with distancing. As a matter for fact, you use only question marks, not even something like a wild card point.

I wanted to assign them points, but it's not possible. Ignoring them IS equated with distancing (hence why I mention it) BUT, and this is a huge fucking but, the very act of ignorance is that nothing exists. It is, litterally, the lack of any interactions. And as such, cannot be physically used (as evidence, as qualifying for a point value, as anything.)

In addition, There are a number of variables involved that would mean assigning them point values would ultimately corrupt the data. For instance, Scott... Hardly been an active slot all game has it? Perfectly logical ben ignored him for non-scum reasons. (You cannot be active towards someone not here.) Same exact thing for Tammy's slot. Wasn't here for half the day. Add in that this only takes into account a single in game day and the span of information is very very limited. it is perfectly reasonable a player (regardless of alignment) ignores another for a whole day (or half due to inactivity) just because that's how the game plays out.

Ignorance IS a link... But given the inactivity and shortness of time Ben was alive... it doesn't say much... And honestly, can't be legitimately used as evidence.

I appreciate you bringing this up. It's good to know at least someone is actually looking at what I took all that time to compile. I had this same conversation with myself while doing it.

Using a non-math based system, what type of interactions do you find between BenMage and HezLucky, Scott slot and Tammy slot?

I haven't looked at Hez's slot in ISO yet, and I have no interest in taking the time to look at Scott's or Tammy's (well, I might look into Matt...) just because they were inactive while Ben was around. From ben's perspective, He litterally mentions Tammy and Scott zero times, and only mentioned DRMY twice. (one of which, I've already said, is very fucking suspicious)

So as I said, I feel it's possible Ben and Drmy had talked during Confirmation in their QT and that's how Ben KNEW he wasn't an alt. It's hardly solid, and if I'm wrong could be easily proven to be wrong, so it's not something I'm putting a LOT of faith in... after I do Drmy's iso, I should at least have a better stand on how likely this could be.

Aside from that ^, there was no interactions on Ben's end. I'll get back to you after I ISO the others (if I get time to that is)

[The Mini-Librarian]

OK, I'm here. These last few days have been pretty crazy for me, so my playing time has been cut down drastically. Anyway enough excuses, let's play.

As far as 'purely mechcanical ways of scumhunting' it isn't. This is one post out of... how many have I made? Forty-thousand? It's the mechanical side, but it isn't everything I do. Nor do I base my entire way of thinking on the 'mechanical side'.

In addition, I couple my vote analysis with ISO, which are not a mechanical form of scum hunting, but an analytical one. Thus, I have two separate forms of scum hunting done at once. I don't get how you missed this.

I guess what I mean is that it feels very compartmentalized from the rest of your style of play. I guess I'm not seeing how this is a natural progression of your gameplay. It feels a bit forced to me. (but that could just because you were at like L-1 or 2 at the time.)

As for those games you mentioned where you did this type of analysis, do you have any links for these or have they been eaten? I searched for a bit for them but couldn't find them. A look at these would really help me figure out how you normally work into these things.

You do know you have yet to actually show me a case as to why I'm scum right. Neither has anyone else on my wagon. You should hold comments like this until after you at least illistrate WHY I should be lynched. 'Kay, thanks, bye!

OK, no. I explained to you earlier in the day why I'm voting you. I'm not going to run through it again with you. I don't expect you to be happy with it, but I'm not going to convince you you're scum, so I'm done with that. If someone else, somehow, doesn't know why I'm voting you or want some convincing I'll explain my reasons again. Until then it's a waste of space and time.

--

I don't like leaving people at L-1 for some happy hammer person especially when I didn't point out what I've been telling him I would.

I'm aware. I kinda figured you'd unvote when he got to L-1. I just wanted to give you a hard time. :p

--

@Hez:

I'd highly suggest you finish your read of the game as quickly as possible. This is becoming a terrible distraction.

--

What do you actually think about Hez? Which of Pere's points are decent, and if they're decent why do you "kinda like" Hez?

Hez is currently just above the null line into maybe town area. His posts come off sounding pretty sincere to me and I like the fire he brings to the game. I do however acknowledge that a) drmy was a huge question mark for me and b) I like Pere's point about how he's not exactly being useful currently and some of his posts can read as "trying to appear helpful" (I guess this is also Yates' and Korlash's points also, but Peregrine is where I first saw it.) So this read isn't very strong for me. Basically I need to see more content from that slot to have a real strong read on it. So Yeah. I "kinda like" him.

--

I think that's all I wanted to talk about. If I missed anything tell me.

[Tammy]

I'm not saying that the mathematical and analytical skills aren't important, and I know that in LyLo and after claims they can be very useful and help you come to accurate results. I'm not even saying that just because someone hunts that way it proves they're scum because I know that town hunts that way too. I'm just saying that it's a typical practice for scum to hunt that way because it's easier; it's provable and safe. See for me, I'm interested in behavior, so the mechanical stuff isn't where I find the majority of my reads. I'm actually part logical/part emotional player...so it's not always what the post says but the feeling I get from the post.

Well sure, people are using contradictions and word choice for why they're voting you. I didn't say these things are irrelevant; I just don't think alone they are indicative of scum. But, you also have to look at the contradiction as I've found scum through contradictions as well but you have to put it into context and assess the behavior of it.

Okay so no, you haven't tried to push mislynches due to your verifiable information, but you did use it to justify your jump onto the Magna wagon, and seeing as how you haven't pushed any wagon, you don't get to use the lack of information to prove you haven't done it. I'm telling you what I notice as a trend in your scumhunting, and no I don't get an overall feel for a search for the motivations behind the statements because you assess things to the words stated and argue that and your interpretation while refuting the answer given.

So, for instance, I tell V2V that if he's town he should rethink his assessment of Yates, which you immediately claim is a threat to V2V, no matter how ridiculous it is. And no matter how much it's been explained and that Yates told you that it was a ridiculous interpretation, you still say, "well the words say that." And that you would defend that interpretation to the death. So, yes, trying to cast suspicion my way by an interpretation of what those words could mean is a shallow way of scumhunting, you didn't assess the behavior and when explained you still defend your interpretation. You look like you're leaving your options open to try to get me mislynched.

When I said looking beneath the surface, I'm not talking about ISO's, I'm talking about looking to the intent of the behavior being exhibited not just the shallowness of what is being said. So, for instance, your most recent evidence to cast suspicion on me entails me moving my vote from you because you were at L-1 and casting it as me being scum trying to distance myself from a mislynch. Sure, you focus on the provable aspects. I didn't unvote you when I first noticed it and did later, so you cast that as me being disingenuous; however, that doesn't fit at all with what has happened up until that moment or my behavior. I would really like for you to think about in what universe I, even as scum, would look bad if you were mislynched. I mean, think about it logically. I enter the game, express my suspicions of you and vote, we enter into a long conversation, other people weigh in, two other people replace in and think you're scum and vote you, one of them quite aggressively. Please tell me how I as scum would worry about your mislynch looking bad for me? Dude, your lynch would be a dream situation for a scum replacing in. It's all wrapped up in a box with a bow. Not one person on your wagon is going to look bad if you flip town. If you think I wouldn't be smart enough as scum to recognize that, then I don't know what to tell you. The only reason why I unvoted was because of the slight possibility it would be a mislynch and I needed to think and finish up some things. You say if I was town, I'd give you the town motivation for it. Well, I think if you were town, rather than stating that I did it from scum motivation, you would ask me why I didn't do it immediately, but you didn't.

And, no, you know I don't have to point out the links between you and dead scum. And I'm not going to explain to you why the posts that I posted make me feel like it's staged interaction. I'm not going to go line by line and say this feels fake, this feels fake, this feels fake, because it's how it feels to me. And here is probably where I drive players like you crazy because I'm not a completely logic based player so it's harder to talk me out of what I think because you can't manipulate the way I feel about a post in question. I have a friend at my other site who always kills or lynches the gut-based players early because he says it drives him crazy that he can't manipulate them the way that he can manipulate logic based players. You can cut away at logic based players cases, poke holes in them and manipulate them to see your view; however, players who tend towards the emotional end/or a combination of them both are harder to sway. So, I pointed out to you the interactions that feel off to me; that don't feel like two players assessing one another. They feel like two players interacting with one another for distancing purposes. You already answered for this though when you said that you weren't suspecting him so you actually weren't.

I don't know why you want me to define shallow. Your evidence for MoI was correct; I'm not saying it wasn't. I'm saying it doesn't go beyond that and that sets off alarms for me. I'm not going to get into a discussion about this. What I want from you, if you're town, is who should be lynched instead of you, not you trying to dismantle the way I scumhunt.

So, wait you said you liked Scott for his stupidity about the V2V claim? I thought you thought he was most likely mafia because he brought up the whole roleblocker thing.

What do you think of Scott Brosius? Quite honestly, besides you, he's my number one pick for scum, so for you to like him I find that quite interesting.

[Tammy]

Mostly clerical...I want to look at some of these as they're Ben interactions with PizzaSplit and a couple with Korlash. I'm not about to post the walls between Ben and Korlash though. I might give analysis later, or I'll just decide they don't mean anything. It's busy work.

vote pizzadude

God do I want pizza right now.

MoI, did you open affc with that last to confirm thing, or am I misremembering... on phone.

@Fate: he isn't shotty, you can ask Benmage. They're playing in a game together. Although he (Ben) may have expressed doubts about shotgun being a shotty alt but I think he was joking.

He's not an alt.

Where did I ask him to validate his vote?

In the post I quoted Ben. Why the faux denseness?

There is no reason to question if he had read regarding his vote unless you are specifically checking for validation of said vote..

I'm not being dense. here is my original post:

Vote: MoI

Just cause.

Had you read the few posts thus far when you made this post?

-Fate you best be. Cause I'll know. And yes, MoI is scum.

I asked him if he read BEFORE HE POSTED. I don't mention the vote. I wasn't questioning the validity of the vote. I was questioning if he had read yet. The context of the vote is obviously an rvs one and to assume otherwise would be stupid. Disagree? There was some 20 posts before his, but it looked like people were already beginning discussion and moving from the rvs. (Obviously namely between you and Vijay) He didn't comment on anything. He just inserted himself with a rvs vote, and that alone.

So don't fuck with my inquiries.

Unless you are just fluffing.

Ironically, this^ is the epitome of fluffing. You know damn well I wouldn't be, and therefore this sentence adds nothing except to suggest a negative connotation to my actions (Again). We'll call it undermining. You've done it to me before as scum.

Korlash, your top 3 scum reads please.

MoI in the same way your trying to refute my claim that scum slow claim or refuse to claim with personal Meta, YOU SHOULD be self voting because I used your Meta yo show you open games the way you did here.

Yes I've caught you fabricating. No two games are goin to be alike. You hammering the issue, see see see.... its scummy has fuck. Oh you didn't act the exact same way as scum. Congratufuckinlations.

So now papums me yates and fate are scum. Anyone who disagrees with you is apparently scum. Is Knox too?

But korlash who hasn't attacked you is conftown, right?

Korlash, just tell me you're town...it'll make life easier.

For one, he has been fixated on MoI and myself this whole time. I see no reason for anyone to just keep one target at a time. Also, he only has contributed when people directly ask him questions and early on in the game.

Honestly,

and this is coming from me, he really isn't helping himself out and he DEFINITELY isn't helping the town out.

(To potentially save for Korlash endgame if things turn out my way, otherwise ignore this)

[HezLucky]

And, no, you know I don't have to point out the links between you and dead scum. And I'm not going to explain to you why the posts that I posted make me feel like it's staged interaction. I'm not going to go line by line and say this feels fake, this feels fake, this feels fake, because it's how it feels to me. And here is probably where I drive players like you crazy because I'm not a completely logic based player so it's harder to talk me out of what I think because you can't manipulate the way I feel about a post in question. I have a friend at my other site who always kills or lynches the gut-based players early because he says it drives him crazy that he can't manipulate them the way that he can manipulate logic based players. You can cut away at logic based players cases, poke holes in them and manipulate them to see your view; however, players who tend towards the emotional end/or a combination of them both are harder to sway. So, I pointed out to you the interactions that feel off to me; that don't feel like two players assessing one another. They feel like two players interacting with one another for distancing purposes. You already answered for this though when you said that you weren't suspecting him so you actually weren't.

You're being way too apologetic to Korlash. He is TRYING to manipulate you. Ugh

You see the exact same shit I do. There's a reason for this.

[vijay2vasandani]

Reading Benmage's ISO makes me think Korlash is scum. For no discernable reason X.X fuark.

[Tammy]

Okay so, just re-read Hez, as he replaced into a blank spot, and he's t-t-t-town...t-t-t-town <------ it sounds right when you hum it to Beethoven's fifth. Besides he makes me laugh, which means he's innocent...of course.

Pizzadudes slot left blank as well. I feel all right about Split's contribution so far, but I wish there was more. (lulz...hypocrisy)

Pere - Didn't like the pretend you're going to be lynched test in Post 188. It became a total distraction and kind of felt like fishing in an attempt to decide what direction to go rather than to determine what Magna's real scum reads were. OMGUS'd Korlash in Post 336 meh... this post might be important later if Korlash flips scum. Meh...I have a hard time reading Pere, so I'm going to put it off. I don't see him being lynched today, and I haven't really had the time/energy to interact with him like I should to get an accurate reading of him due to not paying enough attention to this game. (Bad Tammy)

Paps - Oh a man after my own heart in Post 155. I hate when people do partner analysis crap before a scum flip has happened. At least I don't have to give him my speech Pap's is town...just is...not gonna explain it...oh and so is Vijay. (If Korlash flips town, look again, but town.)

Last read I promised to look at again was Scott - Scum. Seriously ISO him. Hey Scott - How's that eye on my slot coming? He's done nothing redeemable since replacing in at all.

[Tammy]

Oh...I suppose I should say "Intent to Hammer"

[vijay2vasandani]

Wait, the Korlash is at L-1? If not, I'll vote as well.

[Tammy]

Oh...never mind...I didn't realize you had voted Hez after you voted Korlash Vijay. I thought he was at L-1; I was wrong.

[vijay2vasandani]

Oh okay.
VOTE: Korlash go for it.

[HezLucky]

Last read I promised to look at again was Scott - Scum. Seriously ISO him. Hey Scott - How's that eye on my slot coming? He's done nothing redeemable since replacing in at all.

I agree so hard with this.

[Yates]

he's t-t-t-town...t-t-t-town

See? This is why I get you. I actually READ that in Beethoven's Fith before seeing the reference!

I'm not ready to call Hez Town, though. I find him more frustrating than funny. Scott is in this same boat. In one, you have a slot that thinks it's cool to vote and call people idiots after admitting he has only read 1/3 of the game. In the other, you have someone that fails at reading comprehension and engages in crapatastic logic. These are both traits that drive me straight up a wall.

To both your credits, I'm starting to agree with you in 865 and Hez in 870. As with Korlash, I have a scum FEELING on Scott but nothing vote worthy. Yet.

Oh okay.
VOTE: Korlash go for it.

Why???

The way I see it, the only reason you are voting Korlash is because you see that someone is willing to hammer if you put his slot at L-1. You think that's reason enough to vote for them? Seriously? Can you put ONE good reason [of your own] you think Korlash is scum out there for us to look at?

I'm staying out of the Korlash circus. I've said all I think I can on the matter. Going purely on empirical evidence [plus

maybe

10% gut] I still think VJ is the better play and nets us better odds of finding scum.

[Korlash]

OK, no. I explained to you earlier in the day why I'm voting you. I'm not going to run through it again with you. I don't expect you to be happy with it, but I'm not going to convince you you're scum, so I'm done with that. If someone else, somehow, doesn't know why I'm voting you or want some convincing I'll explain my reasons again. Until then it's a waste of space and time.

This is the type of attitude that leads to mislynches mate, you should work on fixing it. If you feel your reasons you gave for voting X number of pages justify the way my wagon has gone and my eventual lynch, then you just keep sitting there holding on to your stubborn ideals.

If however, you actually care about lynching scum then constant discussion with your suspect over WHY they are scum is the key. If you have so little faith in the wagon you're on that you think discussing why that person is scum is 'wasted space' then I'm sorry to say you're on the wrong wagon.

As for those games you mentioned where you did this type of analysis, do you have any links for these or have they been eaten? I searched for a bit for them but couldn't find them. A look at these would really help me figure out how you normally work into these things.

Villiage for 13 was eaten (at least the part I replaced into was, i think half of day one is still there) and the newbie game isn't going to say a lot other than I do this. Chocolate Cake mafia For your viewing pleasure.

[Korlash]

So, wait you said you liked Scott for his stupidity about the V2V claim? I thought you thought he was most likely mafia because he brought up the whole roleblocker thing.

What do you think of Scott Brosius? Quite honestly, besides you, he's my number one pick for scum, so for you to like him I find that quite interesting.

Funny, You saying you like Hez is as equally interesting to me.

I had forgotten about the whole RBer thing, it seems so long ago... *gets lot in thought*... but even so, it's still only one point. I don't see Ben (even as a goon) ignoring both his partner (even if they were both inactive) so I doubt you and him are both scum. Between the two of you, you're the more likely to flip mafia so he falls down the list a bit for that. My feelings on the V2V wagon are kinda complicated, I personally feel the V2V wagon was something scum WOULD have jumped on, so him arguing against it as he has makes doubt his guilt. This is of course assuming V2V is town, which is in and of itself in question. Even if V2V flips scum though, Scott's reaction to his wagon doesn't strike me as what scum would do in that situation. (with only two of them left, who defends their buddy that hard?)

So the odds of Scott being town are rather high at this point.

Why do you think he is scum?

What I want from you, if you're town, is who should be lynched instead of you, not you trying to dismantle the way I scumhunt.

How did I try to dismantle the way you scumhunt? I asked you to define something and point something else out. If doing either of those would cause the way you scum hunt to be dismantled then I'm sorry to say your methods are rather flimsy to start with...

As far as going into who should be lynched 'instead of me' it's a pointless endeavor. I've already posted my suspects, my analysis, and my math, saying it again won't change anything. And my lynch as become an inevitability. There are four players voting me who will refuse to change their vote for any reason so it's mathematically impossible to lynch anyone else. (the fifth being V2V who will vote anyone, so his vote will remain on me unless all five of the remaining players can agree on a separate target.)

And while it may be possible for Yates, Pere, you, and Scott to agree on another lynch candidate, I personally cannot be the one to convince them as neither Yates nor Pere will actually listen to what I say (given their stated feelings on me, I doubt they feel they can trust me) and if Scott is in fact your number 2, then me and him on the same wagon will drive you off of it, yes?

All I can do at this point is continue to try and create as much information through discussion for you lot to use tomorrow. (since I've already done what I can to find the scum) I can and will do some of the ISOs I want as well, but... You have to look at it from my perspective... I have very little motivation to actually do them so... aside from the two I'll do today, we probably won't see too many more.

If you're asking me, however, gun to my head who would I bet on being the last scum.... I would have to say you and Yates. But that's based on knowledge of my own flip and my own personal opinion, which I wouldn't trust very highly. I prefer to stick with my analysis(s) and PoE it down...

Oh...I suppose I should say "Intent to Hammer"

Yeah this is as worthless as V2V's 'intent' was. I can't take you seriously if you can't even pay attention to the wagon's actual size...

However, *checks watch* in the interest of time I'll tell you this.

I am Father Dougal McGuire, and the only thing I'm guilty of is pushing a fucking button!

AND I'D DO IT AGAIN! HA HA HA HA HA!
Seriously, have you ever pushed the button? It's freaking amazing...

I'm staying out of the Korlash circus. I've said all I think I can on the matter. Going purely on empirical evidence [plus maybe 10% gut] I still think VJ is the better play and nets us better odds of finding scum.

Why are you staying out of the Korlash Circus? Are you afraid of the elephants? Or is it because you know I'm about to flip town and want to distance yourself from the aftermath? *scribbles in notepad*

Better chance at

finding

scum? Not 'being' scum?

[Korlash]

You're being way too apologetic to Korlash. He is TRYING to manipulate you. Ugh

If I was 'trying' to manipulate anyone, I'd have a lot more people 'on my side' right now. I'm a fucking genius at manipulation.

As it stands, I can only manipulate people as far as my being town allows (lack of knowledge, having to rely on true facts, the whole 'town WC' holding me back, yadda yadda yadda) It all makes for a bit of a boring time really... As much as I would love to manipulate people off my wagon and onto someone I think is scum (perfectly legitimate people, you should try it sometime) It's impossible at this point.

Hell, the only real manipulation left to me is trying to make people vote me, and I can't even do that thanks to this blasted WC... Scum have all the fun... ;_;