Mini 1327: Murder in the Louvre- Day 6

[shos]

Yosarian2 - "Françoise Dupont" - Some kind of French police inspector.
Hiraki - "Jacqueline Champollion" - Blonde and daughter of the director.
charter - "La Joconde" - aka the mona lisa.
shos - "Le Artefact".
Vi - "the Louvre's mummy".

Parama - "Polyphème Desroches"

- town night guard.
Magua - "Antinous Mondragone".
Zar- "The Broken Jug" - a detective.
Nuwen- "Astrid" - a school girl/fieldtripper.

Kanye- "Williard Winckelmann"

- town scientific expert.

furcolow- "The Portrait of Madame Récamier"

- mafia charmer.

UberNinja- "A Statuette of Pazuzu"

- a town forensic investigator.
Elmo TeH AzN- "Endymion in Diane and Endymion by Jean-Jacques Pradier" [/s]- a town dreamer.

correct me if I got anything wrong.

[Deleted duplicate post] - spring

[shos]

Can I have the name claim list again? I think we can get rid of some town being scum.

I'll get that for you in a minute, can you respond to the last 3 pages in any better way meanwhile?

I will later, but I'm in a brainstorming moment that might show obvscum.

gogogo then.

eh mod, it posted twice, remove one..

[Nuwen]

Charmer isn't a role I've seen before, but /search shows it to have been used as the name for:

1. x-shot lovermaker, a bastard-ish role that creates a midgame or temporary lover bond with target player slot. A possibility if Furcthing hadn't made someone a lover yet.
2. x-shot-on-hit pacifier, makes target immune to actions x number of times. Makes sense in a game with a killing third party.

I doubt there are 3 scum + SK in this game. 3-1-9 is incredibly difficult to balance - first of all, the SK has WAY too many scum potential shots to contend with and likewise the town powers can just swing the game way too hard. I'd bank on 2-1-10 with a lot of remaining town powers being mostly flavorful or near-vanilla, a'la Shos. Flipped town powers include: a lucid dreamer, a forensic investigator (SCREAMS third party), a scientist (whatever that is), and a night guard (bodyguard, prob). I'm inclined to believe Parama took a bullet for someone last night (Zar, prob). Still doesn't answer where the Kanye kill originated from.

If someone has results on Yos last night, this is the time to claim them out. If someone has a successful protect/block from N1, now is also the time to claim it out.

[Yosarian2]

Vi-scum would really need to try to throw some doubt on my town-status here in order to avoid getting process of elimination-ed, and I really have a hard time believing that vi-town would suspect me here at all, much less vote me just over what you have to know is some really weak setup speculation. It also looks like you're trying to cast doubt on charter being town, even though you've were calling him town as well all of yesterday. Starting to feel a little cornered?

Vi-scum would know better than to try lynching a claimed Vig. I'm crazy, but not stupid. [/quote]

I don't think you really do expect to lynch me today. (Although trying to lynch a vig by calling him a SK is actually a trick that does work fairly often.) I am concerned that you're trying to set me up so I can be lynched later.

Also, I'm still disturbed that you were fishing yesterday to find out if I was a one-shot vig or not. If you (and Parama) hadn't done that and revealed that I couldn't shoot again, I probably would have taken a scum kill last night, and drawing the scum kill was half of the reason I claimed in the first place. You never explaind this, Vi; Why did you announce in thread yesterday that you thought I was a one-shot vig? If you are town, why would you tell that to the scum? Or were you scum trying to fish to find out if I was a threat or not?

*You've made a claim that defies flavor balance sense and your attempts to make it seem otherwise are equally implausible

Uh, I already explained why it's not unbalanced, and I don't know why you ignored the logic. My role is much less likely to prematurely end the game then a standard vig would be in a mafia+vig+SK setup, since I can only kill on night 2 if I shot a scum on night 1. Mafia+SK+1-shot vig isn't at all destabilizing in a 13 players setup (the single extra kill basically just makes it a mafia + SK 12 player setup, effectively), and my vig role is one shot unless I shoot a scum (if I do shoot a scum night 1, then the scum group is one smaller and the town can't get endgamed with 5 people left alive).

*and the mod hints associated with your claim

do not match your role at all

How do you figure?

The murderer had this medallion before, as he dropped it after he committed the murder. A vision of a tricolor flag(white isn't a color bitches) And finally, a man cutting his cape and muttering the word Martin.

Part of the reason I believed Hiraki was that that claim, in a vague, fuzzy way, seemed to match my role, a french detective who was suspended from duty after destroying a good piece of art. Or maybe only part of it is. I donno. It's so vauge, and it's filtered through Hiraki's paraphrase, so it's hard to say for sure.

*and speaking frankly I don't trust anyone who is trying to sway me away from the bloody obvious scum that is Nuwen. I've lost too many games because I got talked out of lynching scum and/or wasn't able to lynch them. Not this time.

Yeah, if you're now accusing me of being a SK, then you can't also accuse me of being scum with Nuwen. Pick one absurd excuse for voting me or the other, you can't have it both ways.

[Yosarian2]

and him being an SK works for me; that's why he did not say he shot anyone tonight.

Did you miss my claim at the end of the day yesterday?

The way my role is set up, I lose my vig ability (get suspended from the police force is the flavor) if I shoot a townie. I did, so I could not kill anyone last night, and I can't kill anyone for the rest of the game. I'm effectively vanilla now, which is why I was trying to draw the scum kill yesterday by claiming vig right a the start of the day.

If anyone tracked or watched me or whatever, or if they do any point from now until the end of the game, they can confirm that I did not and will not go anywhere.

[Yosarian2]

Here's how we figure that part out: Yos, you lynching Vi today? You've spent a lot of time making it clear that your town read on me isn't iron-clad, while also prodding Vi as scum. The only thing you've made clear is that you don't think we can be scum TOGETHER, which is about as Captain Obvious as it gets. We know you're not part of any scum faction; the only question here is whether you're an SK or true vig.

vote Vi

How does me lynching Vi or not "help you figure out" if I'm a vig or a SK? That doesn't really make sense, Nuwen.

I really do want to lynch Magna today; I think that no matter if Vi is scum, if you are scum, or if you've both town, that he really has to be the second member of the scum team. What do you think about him, Nuwen? Usually you'd be all over going after someone who's lurked all game.

[Hiraki]

Hmm.

As much as I'd like to comment on the last three pages

my mind is stuck on trying to find relations with names and their roles

trying to see if there's any relation between PRs and names, or anything of that sort

I don't want a massclaim, to note, but I'm going to keep thinking about this and will comment further later, hopefully with more game-content.

[shos]

Hmm.

As much as I'd like to comment on the last three pages

my mind is stuck on trying to find relations with names and their roles

trying to see if there's any relation between PRs and names, or anything of that sort

I don't want a massclaim, to note, but I'm going to keep thinking about this and will comment further later, hopefully with more game-content.

are you for realz????? *inb4hirakiflipsscum*

and him being an SK works for me; that's why he did not say he shot anyone tonight.

Did you miss my claim at the end of the day yesterday?

The way my role is set up, I lose my vig ability (get suspended from the police force is the flavor) if I shoot a townie. I did, so I could not kill anyone last night, and I can't kill anyone for the rest of the game. I'm effectively vanilla now, which is why I was trying to draw the scum kill yesterday by claiming vig right a the start of the day.

If anyone tracked or watched me or whatever, or if they do any point from now until the end of the game, they can confirm that I did not and will not go anywhere.

if you are indeed telling the truth, than having 2 kills tonight makes the game alittle too much killful the way I see it. if you are indeed telling the truth, then thsi game could have had 2 deaths on night 1, and 2 deaths on night 2, getting us to lylo in 2 nights?? I don't think that's normal.

I got my eye on you; I'll lynch Vi and Hiraki first. I don't care much which one; in fact I'll prefer hiraki, since we might be able to decipher that demotic code and get more info on mummy, but really, since Vi is now more likely to get lynched, so be it. I'm convinced. I might be wrong, but the way I see it, game is over.

[Yosarian2]

if you are indeed telling the truth, than having 2 kills tonight makes the game alittle too much killful the way I see it. if you are indeed telling the truth, then thsi game could have had 2 deaths on night 1, and 2 deaths on night 2, getting us to lylo in 2 nights?? I don't think that's normal.

I just explained why it's quite possible, shos, in my last post to vi.

If there is a SK in this game, then SK+Mafia+1-shot vig in a 13 player game is the same as SK+mafia in a 12 player game (mafia+sk in a 12 player game was probably the most common and standard mini setup for mafiascum for years and years, before we bumped the mini games up to 13 a little while ago). The only situation in which I'm not a 1 shot vig is if I kill a scum night 1; and in that case, the fact that there's a dead scum delays lynch or lose.

[shos]

yes I got that info already, but you missed something.
if there's a SK+mafia+1shotvig, then coming up day 2 there could be FOUR people dead. and with 9 players left, 3 scums, that is mylo. there's no frekin way that is the case, mylo after 1 night. therefore I think that is impossible. having just a 1-shot vig with mafia is all good and fine, but then where did the second nightkill come from?? that's why I think sk+mafia could be the setup. worst case for us is 3 dead at day 2, 3 more, and then day 3 is lylo. that is still bad as I said, but that's better than the other options.

the best option imo is that you are an SK, and the scumteam is only 2 people. however, I still have both Vi and Hiraki as suspects, so I will not coontinue speculating. I'll lynch and when we know more, we'll see.

[Yosarian2]

yes I got that info already, but you missed something.
if there's a SK+mafia+1shotvig, then coming up day 2 there could be FOUR people dead. and with 9 players left, 3 scums, that is mylo. there's no frekin way that is the case, mylo after 1 night.

Yes, shos, that is true in every 12 player game with a 3 man mafia and a SK. Which has never stopped that from being a popular setup.

That being said, we don't actually know there is was a 3 man mafia. There could just as easily be a 2 man mafia and a SK; that's not an unusual setup either.

[shos]

I am not too experienced and I do not consider that such a good setup, even if it was popular. and as I said, 2 mafia and an SK is an option, but that still makes you an SK

[Zar]

Actually, I've been toying with the theory that Mafia shot the SK, who opted for a scummy kill to claim Vig. It would explain Furcolow's reaction to Yosarian's vig claim.

[Yosarian2]

I am not too experienced and I do not consider that such a good setup, even if it was popular. and as I said, 2 mafia and an SK is an option, but that still makes you an SK

...

No, I'm a vig. I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall here. 2-3 mafia+SK in a 12 player setup = 2-3 mafia + SK +1 shot vig in a 13 player setup. Any of those setups are balanced-ish, and are quite possible.

[Yosarian2]

Actually, I've been toying with the theory that Mafia shot the SK, who opted for a scummy kill to claim Vig. It would explain Furcolow's reaction to Yosarian's vig claim.

Only idiots claim vig as SK for no reason.

[shos]

everyone go ISO furcolow starting from ISO #63.
then read from page 62 till the lynch.

revoting Hiraki here, in the light of the lynch scumflip we've had.
Vi will be dealt with tomorrow.

UNVOTE: Vi
VOTE: Hiraki.

also Yos is not scum in any way. could be SK, could be town vig a he claims.
Charter is town. Zar is town.
Nuwen is some combination of null-leaning-town and town-leaning-null.

[Zar]

shos FTR: SK is scum, just 3rd party scum

#justsayin'.

[shos]

yeah..but you get the point...either way - he is not the first one to be lynched, because he has the most chances of being actually town I think. the option of two vigs - one odd and one even, or something like that, or one 1-shot-odd and one 1-shot-even or something...I guess that it exists..

[Zar]

Parama's reaction to the quick buildup of Hiraki's wagon gives me pause.

[shos]

why?
he's dead and town anyway.

[Zar]

END OF D1 Votecount

Day 1 Final votecount

(7) UberNinja:

shos, Nuwen,

Yosarian2

,

Zar

, Hiraki,

Furcolow

,

Elmo teh AzN

,

(3) Hiraki :

Parama

, charter, Vi

(2) Zar:

UberNinja

,

kanyeknowsbest

,

(1) Vi:

Katsuki,

(0) Not voting :

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

END OF D2 Votecount.

Day 2 final votecount

(6)

Furcolow

:

Yosarian2

, Vi,

kanyeknowsbest

, Nuwen, shos, charter,

(2) Hiraki :

Katsuki,

Zar

,

(1) Yosarian2:

Furcolow

,

(2) Not voting :

Parama

, Hiraki,

With 11 players, 6 votes are required to lynch.

Hmm..

I think Hiraki-Scum would have enjoyed some well needed town-cred for hopping into the Furcowagon, especially since he's been a viable all through D1 + D2.

[shos]

he did; he was the L-1 vote I think, but then he just unvoted because...well no reason stated of course.

Hiraki, why did you unvote on D2?

[Vi]

my role is an artifact, what the hell do you want me to say more than that? the story of where it comes from, how old is it, what it's made of? I don't know these things, and even if I did, how would that be relevant in any way to make you push so hard on it?

Because everyone else has either a given flavor background or is actually on exhibit in the Tunnel Of Louvre. "Le Artefact" turns up nothing.

Now granted I would be just fine with that answer if it weren't for the sinister overtones here:

- some sort of powerfully energetic entity/creature that can meddle with fate.
- An ancient voice emerging from the origins, resonant/low pitched and taking its time, entering consciences.
- a bright light that can't be avoided, showing no sign of wickedness or righteousness.

Sounds like you. Fits with my Role PM. Looks dubious with that last part.

---

So your operating theory is that Yos-scum claimed the scum kill as a vig kill, before there was any evidence that there was actually a second killer.

Now there is evidence there's a second killer.

Yos could be scum lying about being a vig, in which case there has to be an SK or vig around to account for the second kill. And that SK or vig didn't shoot Yos.
Yos could be an SK who decided to claim pre-emptively (possible, I suppose, if bulletproof), but then that would mean that Yos is either an SK-pretending-to-be-a-vig by shooting Parama, or that the mafia shot Parama, both of which are =/
Or Yos is a vig.

I'm seriously not seeing your hang up over this.

You're missing the part about multi-kill madness. More so than Zar's JOAT example.

Elaborate.

Read it yourself. The clues around the N1 murder scene (as mentioned by Hiraki) do not relate to a living French inspector.

----

So, there are two things about this Viscum theory that don't work.

(1) My Night action was actually circumvented last Night. Not that you'd know that, but it means I wouldn't be writing anything on the walls - as I said earlier.
Also,
(2) Supposing for a moment that I were scum in a game where it's very obvious that flavor means a lot (remember the claims came on Day

Two

), don't you think that I would claim just about anything except what all the clues point to? Something innocuous, like a schoolgirl on a field trip.

Call it WIFOM if you like; I'd like to refer to my previous statement about me not being a total retard. And in case it's not obvious, I'm quite positive that this is a setup.

----

I don't think you really do expect to lynch me today. (Although trying to lynch a vig by calling him a SK is actually a trick that does work fairly often.) I am concerned that you're trying to set me up so I can be lynched later.

I've actually never seen that trick before. As for getting you lynched now or later - if you're scum, whichever works, as long as it happens. That's a cause worth dying for.

As an aside, with eight alive and (barring the lack of another Vig claiming) the assumption of two Mafia and one SK, there's no room to mislynch. But, it's still possible to win whether you (if SK) are lynched Today or not, and if something happens overNight that clears you, so much the better. That's why I'm willing to switch to Nuwen, who still hasn't done anything but wait for the gods to deliver blessed flavor for her to stay on the ignored fringes of the game.

Also, I'm still disturbed that you were fishing yesterday to find out if I was a one-shot vig or not. If you (and Parama) hadn't done that and revealed that I couldn't shoot again, I probably would have taken a scum kill last night, and drawing the scum kill was half of the reason I claimed in the first place. You never explaind this, Vi; Why did you announce in thread yesterday that you thought I was a one-shot vig? If you are town, why would you tell that to the scum? Or were you scum trying to fish to find out if I was a threat or not?

I wasn't even thinking when I said that. But in Minis, OSVigs occur far more often than full Vigs. It was a reflex reaction. Had you not said anything about it I would never have noticed I said it.

Uh, I already explained why it's not unbalanced, and I don't know why you ignored the logic. My role is much less likely to prematurely end the game then a standard vig would be in a mafia+vig+SK setup

except Mafia+Vig+SK is in no way a good and balanced game in most cases.

Mafia+OSVig+SK is ridiculous. You start Day 2 with 9 players alive. If three are groupscum, D3 is game over worst-case.

To answer something further down, 8-3-1 was one of

the worst

Mini setups out there. Players and mods were both complaining about getting screwed by mislynching once and the Town never being able to recover. It's a big part of why Minis went up to thirteen players (which having an OSVig in kind of renders worthless). Etc. I should not have to be lecturing you on this.

How do you figure?

Your role. St. George. Or whoever it was when I brought out links for pointing out what Hiraki was talking about. It describes a sculpture or whatever it's called. Not a living police chief.

I really do want to lynch Magna today; I think that no matter if Vi is scum, if you are scum, or if you've both town, that he really has to be the second member of the scum team. What do you think about him, Nuwen? Usually you'd be all over going after someone who's lurked all game.

BECAUSE SHE'S SCUM YOU MORON
HOW MANY TIMES DURING A SINGLE GAME DO I HAVE TO REPEAT THIS BEFORE YOU GET IT
HOW MANY TIMES DURING A SINGLE GAME DO I HAVE TO REPEAT THIS BEFORE ANYONE GETS IT

I got my eye on you; I'll lynch Vi and Hiraki first. I don't care much which one; in fact I'll prefer hiraki, since we might be able to decipher that demotic code and get more info on mummy, but really, since Vi is now more likely to get lynched, so be it. I'm convinced. I might be wrong, but the way I see it, game is over.

I would advise you to never say this, and if you do say it, never believe it.

I'm not just saying that because I'm biased about the prospects of lynching me. The last time I said something like this I lost so badly that it made me emotionally ill for a solid 36 hours.

Talking of emotionally ill, I need to step out for a moment.

[Vi]

Actually I'm not stepping out yet. I'm still frustrated.

Whatever. Realistically Yos isn't getting lynched Today. So be it.

Unvote: Yosarian2
Vote: Nuwen

(L-4)

Hiraki might be scum. Hiraki might stand a good chance at being scum after shosgate D2. But it's not as likely as Nuwen-scum.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki, why did you unvote on D2?

I was able to relate with other ongoing games. Not going to say much more than that because that's just about as much as I can say.