[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Junpei]

Why would town use that ability?

[Staeg]

To confirm that they have the power to do so if, for example, the scum silencer is dead.

[Alchemist]

Eh, its a pretty fluff ability. I originally was thinking

1 Town Silencer
3 Vanillas
1 Goon Silencer
1 Goon

But thought that was too scumsided considering Town Silencer can miss and the Goon Silencer will never miss. I'm not seeing how the optimal play argument comes into effect. Silence someone you think is scummy. They have a slight disadvantage. Its not that big of a deal.

[callforjudgement]

Town Silencer is effectively an Innocent Child, there (they can't be counterclaimed as they can confirm their role by silencing the counterclaimer). So it's probably balanced or slightly scumsided, and the role might make for some fun apart from that. Giving the scum one as well would make the setup somewhat more scumsided, although not by much.

[Alchemist]

Town Silencer is effectively an Innocent Child, there (they can't be counterclaimed as they can confirm their role by silencing the counterclaimer). So it's probably balanced or slightly scumsided, and the role might make for some fun apart from that. Giving the scum one as well would make the setup somewhat more scumsided, although not by much.

Also this

Its not like he can be CC'd

[Staeg]

Why not? Unless I misunderstood something, the scum and town-sided abilities are identical, so you can't tell which one of the silencers is the town one.

[Alchemist]

Reread the first post lil bud, I edited it almost immediately, you must have seen the first version.

[IceGuy]

Reverse Vengeful

2 Mafia Goons
5 VTs

Nightless.
Special mechanic: When the first Goon gets lynched, they get a vengekill.
Mafia wins if they make up at least half of the players.

EV is 35% town, 65% mafia, which seems reasonably balanced considering mafia can't reliably take out strong players.

[izakthegoomba]

I think it would be more balanced with 7 VTs.

[Junpei]

4 lynches to get 2 scum. 2/4

I don't know if that's balanced or not.

11v2
9v2
7v2
5v2
3v2
2v1

So that's six lynches to get two scum. So izak is right, there should be seven VTs.

[IceGuy]

4 lynches to get 2 scum. 2/4

I don't know if that's balanced or not.

Keep in mind that those lynches aren't 2 or 3 out of 13, but 2 out of at most 7, and 1 out of at most 5.

[Faraday]

(Also the mafia nightkill is a ridiculously powerful weapon in mountainous)

[Junpei]

4 lynches to get 2 scum. 2/4

I don't know if that's balanced or not.

Keep in mind that those lynches aren't 2 or 3 out of 13, but 2 out of at most 7, and 1 out of at most 5.

That's true. So you did the math and got 35/65? That doesn't seem right. How do you do the math, just multiply the percentages and add it up right? On second look, it looks balanced and fair to me, though the EV system is not really saying that.

[IceGuy]

That's true. So you did the math and got 35/65? That doesn't seem right. How do you do the math, just multiply the percentages and add it up right? On second look, it looks balanced and fair to me, though the EV system is not really saying that.

Basically, like this. The EV is obviously just a rough estimate, but in general (i.e. for a normal lynches/kills setup) I'd say a setup with around 40-50% town EV is reasonably balanced (considering non-random lynches benefit town more than non-random NKs benefit scum).

If you multiply the probabilities in the paths and add all paths for town and scum together in the setup I'm suggesting, you get 35% for town and 65% for scum.

[Alchemist]

Is it just me or are White Flag games like way scumsided? 5:3 seems too stronk, all things considered. What do you guys think of Less Pressure (2innochil,3maf,3vanilla) for Vent?

[callforjudgement]

I've been thinking about this for a while, but after playing in Worst Roles Mafia, it seemed to become particularly viable.

Keep It Balanced Mafia

• 5 Vanilla Townies
• 3 Mafia Goons
• 3 Werewolf Goons

If all players die simultaneously, or all townies die leaving an equal number of Mafia and Wolves, town wins even though they have no surviving members.

Working out the strategy for this one is really confusing. (For instance, in 1:1:1 lylo, it's optimal play for town to self-vote.)

[izakthegoomba]

...what does that have to do with WRM?

[callforjudgement]

The bargaining between the scumteams. Deciding whether to crosskill or not to crosskill really was a strong part of that game from the scum play, and to a lesser extent, playing the scumteams off against each other (see: the enslavement of saulres) was noticeable in the townplay, towards the end.

[quadz08]

Is it just me or are White Flag games like way scumsided? 5:3 seems too stronk, all things considered. What do you guys think of Less Pressure (2innochil,3maf,3vanilla) for Vent?

Where are you finding a 5:3 white flag? Cause yeah that's hilariously scumsided.

[Alchemist]

Scumhunter 8p
Less Pressure
etc

[Hoopla]

Reverse Vengeful

2 Mafia Goons
5 VTs

Nightless.
Special mechanic: When the first Goon gets lynched, they get a vengekill.
Mafia wins if they make up at least half of the players.

EV is 35% town, 65% mafia, which seems reasonably balanced considering mafia can't reliably take out strong players.

This plays very similarly to No Lynching Town.

[IceGuy]

This plays very similarly to No Lynching Town.

You're right; I didn't think of this setup.

[quadz08]

Scumhunter 8p
Less Pressure
etc

Those both have hilariously townsided mechanics and/or roles to balance it though.

scumhunter

The scum have no normal nightkill. However, after Day One only:
If a scum player is lynched, scum chose one player to kill, but it then becomes White Flag (scum lose when there is only one scum left)
If a town player is lynched, scum must kill one of their own.

That guarantees only two scum left after D1. This makes it 4:2, with no NKs, and possibly in White Flag setup if town gets lucky D1.

Less Pressure give town two innocent children and no scum nightkills. That's hilariously powerful, as it narrows down your lynch pool by two right from the beginning, as well as guaranteeing the good intent of those two players. I'd venture to say that it might even be townsided, depending on the players who get the innocent child roles.

[Phillammon]

Too Many Cooks

3x Mafia Goons

10x Modified Vigilantes

• Daystart
  
• Mafia have a nightkill and a roleblock, as well as night talk
  
• If a player is targetted by a single vigilante in the night, the target dies
  
• If multiple vigilantes target the same player, or a vig targets the player that the mafia kill, all of the vigilantes targeting that player die.

[quadz08]

oh god so much scumsided

far too much potential for tons of town death really fast.

give it 2 goons and 11 town, and maybe give the town 2 x-shot bps and then mafia 1 x-shot bp?