Open 413 - Duck, Duck, Shoot! (Game over!)

[andrew94]

mcqueen post 137 - lol? so if everyone posts fluff, no case would be made


@ Quinter, about your alt post. ACrv made a post earlier saying you were new
and so shouldnt be subjected to some tells or something,
but your not new. i believe shotgun reinforces this in post 164

You can endorse more than one lynch. ITs called scumreads.
your logic makes no sense.


@acrv, read the above. quinter isnt new. so your 'christmas reference' is gone

shattered is hardcore lurking

@brundibar i am interested in whats not right


@phil

-kondi didnt read first few posts, so hes scum
- shotgun apparently didnt read his pm .. . ??? logic???

i dont think kondi is scum because of that, and so shotgun is town too.
People that believe shotgun is scum for not reading, kondi is too.



mcqueen is town.


@ Om, sup welcome
quinter jumps on shotgun for crap reasoning

acrv was looking pro town earlier
mcqueen was trying to suggest that his town at that point in time

[Om of the Nom]

Elaborate. What in particular makes them town? What part of quinter's reasoning was crap?

[Om of the Nom]

Also sup.

[andrew94]

mcqueen is now town with reasons similar to shotgun

quinter was jumping on shotgun with the reasoning of he didnt read the pm.

[Om of the Nom]

Why are mcqueen and shotgun town?
Why was quinter's reasoning bad?

[mcqueen]

Om of the Non has commented on nearly everyone, but me. :c

[mcqueen]

Fuck. Nevermind. Dumb shit kindle.

[Om of the Nom]

I DON'T LOVE YOU

[mcqueen]

I DON'T LOVE YOU

I just told my mommy on you. Good luck with her tonight. Btw, it's 2:30 AM here, and I'm not even tired.

On this note, duck, duck, goose. I choose Om of the Nom. Want to 1v1 me boii? I am bad. You can spank me now.

[mcqueen]

COME AT ME, MR. POTATO.

[Om of the Nom]

I NEED AN ADULT! I NEED AN ADULT!

Depends, I am obvious town, but I don't know if you are scum yet. If you are scum, I'll happily 1v1 you. But if you are town I'll decline because I don't wanna die either :P

[Om of the Nom]

POTATO

[Om of the Nom]

I'M GOING TO TAKE MY DOG FOR A WALK.
I'LL TALK AGAIN IN HALF AN HOUR TO AN HOUR.

[AcRv]

Okay, Phillamon's jumping at a claim this early is rather odd, I'll admit. But the fact that you confirmed by PM by posting your Role Name, without actually reading what your role is, seems unlikely. Because the "confirm by PM" is at the bottom of the PM. To get to the bottom of the PM you have to read the bit before it. Which tells you what the role does.

How is it odd?

Because when every town member is the same role, so we can assume someone claiming isn't doing it seriously.

We were just arguing over the fact he got wrong the role that every townie has - so town being PGOs would be on his mind.

Don't like the way this is worded.

May I ask how you'd rather have it worded? If not I'm asking anyway

However, one thing does hit me - scum QT would have been filled with "how are we going to tackle these PGOs?" talk.

What makes you think this?

Last time this setup was run we spent a good eight or nine pages disussing what I posted in my first post - the point of this setup is the amount of WIFOM caused by the fact that every player as the potential to shoot back. So scum need to know pretty quickly whether they want to play it by manipulating and no killing, or take chances with night kills.

And so he would have known what the PGO was. And so the most likely explanation is in fact that he didn't read his role PM. So yes, he townslipped, but for a different reason.

Isn't this starting to assume too much?

I don't think it's too much to assume the scum were talking about ways not to lose...

They don't want to risk losing someone.

What makes you think this?

Because scum aren't a fan of having members die. Well they shouldn't be, at least...

I currently have townreads on drmyshotgun, Phillammon, and Jal.

Why for each of them?

Already been down this road.

Just realised that drmyshotgun is back to null because I just realised the WIFOMfest that we can have over that...

Sounds like backtracking again.

That was made shortly after the original post - it was me realising I made a mistake. Believe it or not, I'm not perfect

If Jal is scum then so is drmyshotgun, and if drmyshotgun is town then so is Jal.

Don't like how this came out of nowhere.

This was me saying things early game to get me moving. If you read later, you see that I realised I was wrong on this account too.

I dunno why Jal was Town and why he is closely linked with me.

This.

See above

Look at his post. He tried to defend you by saying we were assuming you read your PM.

Isn't that assuming too? What makes you think he was trying to defend Gunny?

Shooting down a case against player x is defending player x.

If he were scum and you were town, he wouldn't have bothered, because it'd be an easy wagon. So he's probably town.
However, as scum he might want to defend you if you were buddies. So he is only scum if you are.

I agree with kondi here. This is shit logic.

I also believe I acknowledged this later on.

AcRv

:

What makes Phill town?

You want me to explain my town reads? So scum know what they can do to make me think they're town? I'm good.

This is a new one. I call bullshit.

I would link to one instance to it, but that was lost in the crash... I'm sure if you looked you could find occassions where it's done. I can understand why they do it too, hence why I'm doing it. I only do it early game so scum don't give me an early town vibe and then mess with me a bit later on.

If he were scum and you were town, he wouldn't have bothered, because it'd be an easy wagon. So he's probably town.
However, as scum he might want to defend you if you were buddies. So he is only scum if you are.

Getting this straight:

So if I were scum, I wouldn't have bothered to defend him if he were town because it would be an easy wagon.
However, if I were scum I might defend him if we were buddies.

This is all on top of assuming that I was even defending him. This sounds like some horrible roundabout logic to make me look scummy and tie Gunny and I together.

Uhm...

despite having apparently

read

your PM, and despite both PMs being posted above?

Whoa whoa whoa. We're already assuming too much here.

... Right there you say that we are assuming too much in the case against shotgun. That's defending shotgun.

Not neccesarily, maybe he was just attacking Phillamon?

Then why'd he say "we"? And I believe at this point I had also posted against him.

Really looks like you're trying to defend shotgun a little too much... bringing up an incorrect point trying to defend him, when we had already established that what he did was a null tell. And also denying you defended him seems off as well.

What is so incorrect about what he is saying?

That was the Role PM confusion which is now sorted out - at the time it wasn't, however, so I was attacking him for saying the "Confirm via PM" wasn't in the post. We have established this now too.

AcRv

:

You want me to explain my town reads? So scum know what they can do to make me think they're town? I'm good.

So you're making claims that someone is townie, but backing up this claim would be giving away secrets to the scum? Why should we believe you if you're not going to back-up your claim?

Look at it this way - why would a town member lie about a townread?

WIFOM

Exactly. Saying I'm scum for not explaining my townread is WIFOM, because it can just as easily be town as it could be scum

All you need to know is that I have no plans on voting him/her in the forseeable future.

Okay, if you end up voting them, I'll make sure to attack you for it :3

Seems fair enough

@acrv, read the above. quinter isnt new. so your 'christmas reference' is gone

We established that already... we're doing an awful lot of restating things we know, aren't we?

[mcqueen]

I NEED AN ADULT! I NEED AN ADULT!

Depends, I am obvious town, but I don't know if you are scum yet. If you are scum, I'll happily 1v1 you. But if you are town I'll decline because I don't wanna die either

You are not obvious town to me. No one is, yet.

@AcRv

"Shooting down a case against player x is defending player x."

- No, this is called

Attacking Player X

.

Defending Player X

is shooting down someone else's case about them, in order to protect them.

[Om of the Nom]

You are not obvious town to me. No one is, yet.

Something must be wrong in your head then. I am always super duper obv townie and that's the way I like it :3
Responding to AcRv now.

[Om of the Nom]

Okay, Phillamon's jumping at a claim this early is rather odd, I'll admit. But the fact that you confirmed by PM by posting your Role Name, without actually reading what your role is, seems unlikely. Because the "confirm by PM" is at the bottom of the PM. To get to the bottom of the PM you have to read the bit before it. Which tells you what the role does.

How is it odd?

Because when every town member is the same role, so we can assume someone claiming isn't doing it seriously.

Could you reword this please? I can't make sense of it.

We were just arguing over the fact he got wrong the role that every townie has - so town being PGOs would be on his mind.

Don't like the way this is worded.

May I ask how you'd rather have it worded? If not I'm asking anyway

The part in particular I didn't like was, "he got wrong the role that every tonwie has," to me, it sounds like you used a few choice words in a few choice places to create a bigger impact. I would have worded it like, "he misinterpreted the role that each town member has." "Got wrong," seems way too absolute to me.

However, one thing does hit me - scum QT would have been filled with "how are we going to tackle these PGOs?" talk.

What makes you think this?

Last time this setup was run we spent a good eight or nine pages disussing what I posted in my first post - the point of this setup is the amount of WIFOM caused by the fact that every player as the potential to shoot back. So scum need to know pretty quickly whether they want to play it by manipulating and no killing, or take chances with night kills.

Alright, makes sense (I knew this already, was just making sure your explanation held up).

And so he would have known what the PGO was. And so the most likely explanation is in fact that he didn't read his role PM. So yes, he townslipped, but for a different reason.

Isn't this starting to assume too much?

I don't think it's too much to assume the scum were talking about ways not to lose...

That's not what I meant. You're assuming he didn't read his role PM. Which means you aren't looking at all the other possibilities. For example, he could just be mafia playing dumb.

They don't want to risk losing someone.

What makes you think this?

Because scum aren't a fan of having members die. Well they shouldn't be, at least...

What do you think bussing is for?

I currently have townreads on drmyshotgun, Phillammon, and Jal.

Why for each of them?

Already been down this road.

Quote it please.

Just realised that drmyshotgun is back to null because I just realised the WIFOMfest that we can have over that...

Sounds like backtracking again.

That was made shortly after the original post - it was me realising I made a mistake. Believe it or not, I'm not perfect

The timing seems bad though. I interpreted it as if you realised you might be able to get a mislynch on gunny, so you put your read back to null which makes you able to jump on his wagon at a later time.

If Jal is scum then so is drmyshotgun, and if drmyshotgun is town then so is Jal.

Don't like how this came out of nowhere.

This was me saying things early game to get me moving. If you read later, you see that I realised I was wrong on this account too.

The absolutes are really bad sounding though. A much better way to say it would have been, "If Jal is scum, I'm willing to bet gunny is too, and if gunny is town the I'm betting Jal will be too."

Look at his post. He tried to defend you by saying we were assuming you read your PM.

Isn't that assuming too? What makes you think he was trying to defend Gunny?

Shooting down a case against player x is defending player x.

No it's not, as mcqueen said.

If he were scum and you were town, he wouldn't have bothered, because it'd be an easy wagon. So he's probably town.
However, as scum he might want to defend you if you were buddies. So he is only scum if you are.

I agree with kondi here. This is shit logic.

I also believe I acknowledged this later on.

Quote where you did this please.

AcRv

:

What makes Phill town?

You want me to explain my town reads? So scum know what they can do to make me think they're town? I'm good.

This is a new one. I call bullshit.

I would link to one instance to it, but that was lost in the crash... I'm sure if you looked you could find occassions where it's done. I can understand why they do it too, hence why I'm doing it. I only do it early game so scum don't give me an early town vibe and then mess with me a bit later on.

But if they start acting like that once they see your reason for your town reads, then surely that would be suspicious to you wouldn't it? It's a shit reason to not give out your town reads. You aren't just witholding information from the scum, but also from the town.

If he were scum and you were town, he wouldn't have bothered, because it'd be an easy wagon. So he's probably town.
However, as scum he might want to defend you if you were buddies. So he is only scum if you are.

Getting this straight:

So if I were scum, I wouldn't have bothered to defend him if he were town because it would be an easy wagon.
However, if I were scum I might defend him if we were buddies.

This is all on top of assuming that I was even defending him. This sounds like some horrible roundabout logic to make me look scummy and tie Gunny and I together.

Uhm...

despite having apparently

read

your PM, and despite both PMs being posted above?

Whoa whoa whoa. We're already assuming too much here.

... Right there you say that we are assuming too much in the case against shotgun. That's defending shotgun.

Not neccesarily, maybe he was just attacking Phillamon?

Then why'd he say "we"? And I believe at this point I had also posted against him.
I'll go reread this interaction, then I'll get back to you.

Really looks like you're trying to defend shotgun a little too much... bringing up an incorrect point trying to defend him, when we had already established that what he did was a null tell. And also denying you defended him seems off as well.

What is so incorrect about what he is saying?

That was the Role PM confusion which is now sorted out - at the time it wasn't, however, so I was attacking him for saying the "Confirm via PM" wasn't in the post. We have established this now too. See above.

AcRv

:

You want me to explain my town reads? So scum know what they can do to make me think they're town? I'm good.

So you're making claims that someone is townie, but backing up this claim would be giving away secrets to the scum? Why should we believe you if you're not going to back-up your claim?

Look at it this way - why would a town member lie about a townread?

WIFOM

Exactly. Saying I'm scum for not explaining my townread is WIFOM, because it can just as easily be town as it could be scum

Same can be said for any scumtell. This isn't a proper defense.

[Om of the Nom]

If he were scum and you were town, he wouldn't have bothered, because it'd be an easy wagon. So he's probably town.
However, as scum he might want to defend you if you were buddies. So he is only scum if you are.

Getting this straight:

So if I were scum, I wouldn't have bothered to defend him if he were town because it would be an easy wagon.
However, if I were scum I might defend him if we were buddies.

This is all on top of assuming that I was even defending him. This sounds like some horrible roundabout logic to make me look scummy and tie Gunny and I together.

Uhm...

despite having apparently

read

your PM, and despite both PMs being posted above?

Whoa whoa whoa. We're already assuming too much here.

... Right there you say that we are assuming too much in the case against shotgun. That's defending shotgun.

Not neccesarily, maybe he was just attacking Phillamon?

Then why'd he say "we"? And I believe at this point I had also posted against him.

Maybe the "we" meant he was attacking you and Phillamon instead of just one of you?

Really looks like you're trying to defend shotgun a little too much... bringing up an incorrect point trying to defend him, when we had already established that what he did was a null tell. And also denying you defended him seems off as well.

What is so incorrect about what he is saying?

That was the Role PM confusion which is now sorted out - at the time it wasn't, however, so I was attacking him for saying the "Confirm via PM" wasn't in the post. We have established this now too.

Reasonable enough.

[mcqueen]

You are not obvious town to me. No one is, yet.

Something must be wrong in your head then. I am always super duper obv townie and that's the way I like it :3
Responding to AcRv now.

Um. You claimed scum in Open 384, when I was Modding.

[Jal]

Don't have a lot of time before class. Short reply for now.

drshotmygun

:

Strange how Quinter mentions your vote is fishy and you change your vote to the most popular wagon just now?

I'll start caring about what Quinter thinks the day he starts posting useful content.

mcqueen

: Feisty! I like it. I'll say more to you later.

I skimmed briefly through AcRv's walls. Only this caught my eye:

Exactly. Saying I'm scum for not explaining my townread is WIFOM, because it can just as easily be town as it could be scum

No one has said you're scum because of that.

AcRv

: Challenge: Start doing some scum hunting.

More content later today.

[mcqueen]

As Mitt Romney drawls on about a boring topic, gunfire rings through the stage. Suddenly, Mitt is on the ground. Mitt Romney,

Politican,

died Pregame. The crowd begins to shout at Barack Obama, who must have staged this stunt, but he is shot as well. Barack Obama,

Politician,

died Pregame.

People chant throughout the audience. "Ron Paul! Ron Paul! Ron Paul!"
Everyone grimaces. Those weren't the only Ron Paul fans kicked out of the stage. Ron Paul mafia has begun.
One of the townsfolk changes the channel.

D1 VOTE COUNT #6

Jal (L-2) - AcRv, Quinter, drmyshotgun, brundibar

AcRv (L-4) - mcqueen, kondi2424
mcqueen - (L-4) andrew94, Jal
Phillammon (L-5) - Om of the Nom
Quinter -
andrew94 -
drmyshotgun -
Shattered Viewpoint -
kondi2424 -
brundibar -
Om of the Nom-

Not voting: Phillammon, Shattered Viewpoint,

V/LA: Quinter LA until approximately 6/16 (but he can still post),

With 11 alive, it takes six to lynch

I'm glad you all didn't realize I was V/LA. The asking for VCs made me happy even though I said I wasn't going to be here multiple times...

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-06-23 23:13:00)

@Mod: Kondi is voting for McQueen

@Lastsurvivor - Please edit and fix the votecount. I've had Mods make mistakes, forgot to edit the votecount, and made the same mistake 2 more times. I don't want to go through that again.

Also, @Om of the Nom - What is your current read on Jal? What is your current stance on Jal's wagon? And if you weren't voting for AcRv, who would you be voting for?

P-Edit -

mcqueen: Feisty! I like it. I'll say more to you later.

I'm having conflicting emotions about this...

[mcqueen]

Hey, Shattered Viewpoint. Would you like to get in here and post, now? Or do you want to keep lurking?

[Om of the Nom]

You are not obvious town to me. No one is, yet.

Something must be wrong in your head then. I am always super duper obv townie and that's the way I like it :3
Responding to AcRv now.

Um. You claimed scum in Open 384, when I was Modding.

Because that was the most obviously pro-town gambit ever because it started a huge amount of discussion as intended. I knew what I was doing then, I didn't claim scum blindly.

Also, my stance on Jal is leaning-town right now. I haven't bothered to read past Page 3 but I'm not sure if I like his wagon. If I wasn't on AcRv I would probably be on Phillamon.

[Lastsurvivor]

And the news is on. 2 have been shot at the Florida Statehouse. An insane narrator has been calling the shooters "Day vigs" and the dead "Townies." The lead anchor reports on weird news. Fruit is falling from the sky in Toronto...

D1 VOTE COUNT #7

Jal (L-2) - AcRv, Quinter, drmyshotgun, brundibar

mcqueen - (L-3) andrew94, Jal, kondi2424
AcRv (L-4) - mcqueen, Om of the Nom
Phillammon -
Quinter -
andrew94 -
drmyshotgun -
Shattered Viewpoint -
kondi2424 -
brundibar -
Om of the Nom-

Not voting: Phillammon, Shattered Viewpoint,

V/LA: Quinter LA until approximately 6/16 (but he can still post),

With 11 alive, it takes six to lynch

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-06-23 23:13:00)

[mcqueen]

You are not obvious town to me. No one is, yet.

Something must be wrong in your head then. I am always super duper obv townie and that's the way I like it :3
Responding to AcRv now.

Um. You claimed scum in Open 384, when I was Modding.

Because that was the most obviously pro-town gambit ever because it started a huge amount of discussion as intended. I knew what I was doing then, I didn't claim scum blindly.

Also, my stance on Jal is leaning-town right now. I haven't bothered to read past Page 3 but I'm not sure if I like his wagon. If I wasn't on AcRv I would probably be on Phillamon.

No. Claiming scum is never pro-town, and some Mods will blacklist you for it. You're lucky I don't have problems with people fakeclaiming scum in my games. Be that as it may, not having problems with it, does not mean that it is not anti-town.