TM2012: Scummies 2011.5 - Let the credits roll!

[T-Bone]

It's alright I'll forgive you Deas

I don't need to make a different post Reck. It isn't my problem if you don't like it.

[xRECKONERx]

No T-Bone, now I think you're scum too D:

I'll try and sort this out after my exam.

so do you just think everyone in the game is scum

not that i disagree about T-Bone, but when you're throwing shit at half the playerlist, nobody's going to take you seriously

[Lost Butterfly]

Day 4, Votecount 4

BBmolla (1) - DeasVail
Zar (1) - xRECKONERx
theamatuer (1) - BBmolla

Not voting (4) - MagnaofIllusion, Zar, T-Bone, theamatuer

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch or no-lynch.

Deadline:

June 23rd at 7:00 PM (EDT)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-06-23 19:00:00)

Zar and MoI are V/LA.

[DeasVail]

BBmolla's line about me/Quil in97 is scummy. This is because there was nothing to indicate one of us was scum and it wasn't even a big discussion topic, and he didn't even think I was scum. So, I feel it less likely that town would think to say what molla said than scum just wanting to add content to their post. MEANWHILE, he doesn't mention Quilford's posts/the wagon on Ajax, despite thinking it important to say that I am more likely scum than Quil, but not that likely to be scum.

For some reason, in 136, Zar is not considering Ajax as scum, and is instead focusing on Gaoth. I do not think this is unlikely from Zar-scum as it would be from Reck-scum.

I don't know why Reck doesn't just vote Zar in 137, but I don't know why he wouldn't do it as scum either...

Theam is another one that ignores the ajax wagon.

Zar changes to vote for BBmolla, still not mentioning the Ajax wagon.

Reck says in 234 that he hasn't really read the case on Ajax. Earlier he said that he disagreed with Quilford's case, which may or may not be relevant. My main problem is that he doesn't actually attempt to get a better read on Ajax, even though HE'S THE MAJOR WAGON.

I'm pretty confident in MoI, T-Bone and Theam all being town right now

Ok, I got up to page 24, but my attention really started slipping and I think I need a break from this game.

But, I'm pretty sure that I'll stand by my townreads on MoI, T-Bone and Theam. I don't think I'm wrong on these (and I really hope not because if I'm right town will probably win).

Now, for today, I still have to go over molla again, but I feel he's not the right lynch for today at least, and if I decide that he's town, I have to work out if Zar/Reck is really a combination I want to consider, but I'm jumping ahead of myself and I'll sort that out later.

Today, I want to lynch either Zar or Reck. Going through the game, I am having trouble deciding. I am probably leaning Zar, but could end up going either way.

Unvote

Zar:

Have you played in any games where scum have had daytalk before? What thoughts did you have regarding the Ajax wagon day 1?

BBmolla:

Would you consider yourself the kind of player that likes buddying as town?

[DeasVail]

Some extra thoughts that I want to get down:

- So, the whole fake scummy thing is only likely to be completely made up if Molla is scum with Reck.
- Without that, it's still possible that BBmolla is making up having received a fake scummy, but is being honest about Prof Mafia and there being fake scummies.
- Scum giving Molla a fake scummy doesn't make much sense, as he's a good mislynch target, and that would only hinder his mislynch.
- Additionally, Molla's reaction after having received it is all wrong. His reaction should be that the scummy can be used to prevent his lynch, especially since he has prof. mafia. However, I can see scum not wanting to call themselves town for something they make up, and wait for a townie to call them town.
- All I remember molla's reasoning being for Reck-town is his apathy being genuine, or something like that. Problem with that is that it allows for him being both town and scum (especially with having a partner lynched day 1).

Molla/Zar perhaps?

I'm still not sure on molla, and would like thoughts on my reasoning for his claim not making him town.

[theamatuer]

Still on V/LA, but pointing out Recks group probably has scum for the reason of choosing Prof Mafia instead of other possibly better abilities. Also possibility that prof mafia unlocked scum ability to give fakeroles

[DeasVail]

Theam, the other roles were bad if I remember correctly.

One allowed you to bring a team mate in as a treestump. The other allowed you to put an anonymous message in the lynch scene.

[xRECKONERx]

That has to be the DUMBEST FUCKING THEORY I've heard the entire game. Congratulations.

Our options were essentially: give someone the ability to secretly message the town via modposts, give someone the ability to make one of their teammates an in-game tree stump, or professor mafia which was SEEKRIT POWERZ.

Tell me how that makes one of us scum for choosing that. Go right ahead.

[xRECKONERx]

Problem with that is that it allows for him being both town and scum (especially with having a partner lynched day 1)

except the apathy started way before the D1 lynch of Ajax, so this point is moot

[DeasVail]

Problem with that is that it allows for him being both town and scum (especially with having a partner lynched day 1)

except the apathy started way before the D1 lynch of Ajax, so this point is moot

er.. no it isn't? You'd have reason to be apathetic as both town and scum based on your explanation for it, making molla's point moot.

[Lost Butterfly]

Zar and MOI are both V/la but I'm going to send MOI a prod as he has yet to post this game day

[Zar]

I'm back. But I need to catch up.

Quite frankly, this looks to me like the classic case of scum letting town tear each other apart while they prey on the town-fostered wagons.
Clearly I was wrong about my Magua and KK reads.

With all my team out of their games, my QT was quite silent during the weekend. The only consensus that seems to have been reached there by everyone (myself included) is that theam is still probably VI/town.

[xRECKONERx]

Problem with that is that it allows for him being both town and scum (especially with having a partner lynched day 1)

except the apathy started way before the D1 lynch of Ajax, so this point is moot

er.. no it isn't? You'd have reason to be apathetic as both town and scum based on your explanation for it, making molla's point moot.

"especially with having a partner lynched day 1" implies causation

since the apathy was occurring way before any D1 lynch was even decided, that point IS effectively moot

[Zar]

Zar:

Have you played in any games where scum have had daytalk before? What thoughts did you have regarding the Ajax wagon day 1?

The site where I play most of the time (Westeros) always has scum daytalk. So yes, I have. Games however run at a much faster pace there (Days are 32 Hours Long, Nights about 8 Hours, can be shorter if all actions are sent in), so limiting scum to night talk proves difficult for the game dynamics there.

I was not convinced of the Ajax wagon until the blatant lie. Some players have a tendency to trample on their words and get lynched for stupid reasons. While I thought his contributions where kind of meh, I thought this was one of those situations.

[Zar]

For some reason, in 136, Zar is not considering Ajax as scum, and is instead focusing on Gaoth. I do not think this is unlikely from Zar-scum as it would be from Reck-scum.

What do you mean here?

[BBmolla]

BBmolla's line about me/Quil in97 is scummy. This is because there was nothing to indicate one of us was scum and it wasn't even a big discussion topic, and he didn't even think I was scum. So, I feel it less likely that town would think to say what molla said than scum just wanting to add content to their post. MEANWHILE, he doesn't mention Quilford's posts/the wagon on Ajax, despite thinking it important to say that I am more likely scum than Quil, but not that likely to be scum.

You're taking this out of context.

BBmolla: Would you consider yourself the kind of player that likes buddying as town?

If buddying equals "bitching with my townreads about my derp/scum reads" then yes.

I called Reck town decades ago before Ajax got lynched, look back.

I so want to vote Zar. But I wanna wait for MoI.

[DeasVail]

Reck:

What I was saying is that your apathy in no way makes you town, and that if scum, Ajax getting lynched would have added to it.

Zar:

Explain the last sentence of 87.

Also, I meant that I'd imagine Reck as scum not to necessarily go for the Gaoth wagon, but I could see you as scum going for it. This is rather baseless speculation though.

BBmolla:

How so?

Also, I noticed on my reread that you seemed to buddying Reck quite profusely.

[Zar]

About 87:

I meant that given the likely scenario in which the scum where in separate judging groups, they would know which players where in within each, & know what scummies were within each group. This would allow them to narrow the pool of potential holders of each scummie elected.

[DeasVail]

What about the "once the night comes" part?

[Zar]

assumed the players had night talk only. I haven't played a game in Mafiascum with Daytalk.

DV, Isa would like to know why T-Bone is among your town reads.

[DeasVail]

Do you think scum has daytalk now. If so, why?

I'll explain the T-Bone townread a little later.

[Zar]

I am not sure whether the scum has DayTalk or not. TBH I don't know how to discern the difference between these two scenarios. I haven't seen anything that makes it evident to me whether they lack the ability to communicate at day.

[DeasVail]

Hmm, I'm not sure whether Zar's 87 is town assuming night-talk only, scum slipping night-talk only, or scum with daytalk trying to go with the opposite of what he actually has.

I'm leaning toward saying that I can't make any assumptions from it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is my official “I am back and have access” posting. I will be getting caught up in all my games in the next 24 hours and posting content based on importance of the game (for example Team Mafia is a top priority for obvious reasons).

--

I’ve got a bunch to say about this game. Expect some serial posting as I gather my thoughts. I do need to update some of my work in the Team QT now that two other games have ended during my V/LA.

Suffice it to say with a KK Town flip I’ve pretty much wiped the slate clean on reads. I did some Day 1 VCA work before my V/LA and will post that in my next post.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Day 1

VC 4 and 5 –

Captain Ajax (4) - MagnaofIllusion, hitogoroshi, Quilford, DeasVail
Quilford (1) - theamatuer
theamatuer (1) - Kublai Khan
Zar (1) - The Fonz
Gaoth (3) - Zar, T-Bone, BBmolla
hitogoroshi (1) - Captain Ajax

Not voting (2) : Gaoth, xRECKONERx

Captain Ajax (4) - MagnaofIllusion, hitogoroshi, Quilford, DeasVail
Quilford (2) - theamatuer, Captain Ajax
theamatuer (2) - Kublai Khan, The Fonz
Gaoth (3) - Zar, T-Bone, BBmolla

Not voting (2) : Gaoth, xRECKONERx

This is an interesting VC transition. Ajax has a singleton on hito. Magua is an available counterwagon. Yes, we know he took the stance that the ‘wagon was too easy’ but he didn’t have to. The other wagons at the time were Quil / Zar / theAm. And he chose to pass by both of Zar and theAm to build the wagon on Quil (Town). Also he chose to avoid Gaoth / Magua with might indicate a partner on that wagon.

Possible indication of Zar / theAm partnership.

VC 6 –

Captain Ajax (4) - MagnaofIllusion, hitogoroshi, Quilford, DeasVail
theamatuer (2) - Kublai Khan, The Fonz
Gaoth (4) - Zar, T-Bone, BBmolla, xRECKONERx
hitogoroshi (1) - Captain Ajax
BBmolla (1) - theamatuer

Not voting (1) : Gaoth

Another interesting transition. Rec adds a vote to Magua’s slot to make it tie with Ajax. Ajax once again passes over theAm (which has 100% Town on it) and Gaoth (Town) to vote hito again. It doesn’t seem like he wants to start a viable counterwagon to himself. Again that doesn’t make sense on TheAm (both players on him Town) or Gaoth (Town) unless one of the Goath voters is scum with him.

VC 8 –

Captain Ajax (4) - hitogoroshi, Quilford, DeasVail, BBMolla
theamatuer (3) - Kublai Khan, The Fonz, Captain Ajax
Gaoth (2) - T-Bone, xRECKONERx
BBmolla (2) - theamatuer, Zar

Not voting (2) : Gaoth, MagnaofIllusion

The one take-away I have from this is that theAm and Zar are both on BBMolla. I had unvoted Ajax to give players time to set their Judging so Ajax was down to 3 votes. BBmolla moved from Town to Ajax. Ajax finally moves to theAm. Zar moves with theAm on BBMolla.

We know the theAm wagon was 1 scum 2 Town at that stage. If scum really wanted to push a Town counterwagon that would be the logical place to move. theAm is pretty much always scummy.

Yet Zar doesn’t make a move to theAm. Need to review Zar’s stance on TheAm Day 1.

VC 10

Captain Ajax (5) - hitogoroshi, Quilford, DeasVail, BBMolla, T-Bone
theamatuer (3) - Kublai Khan, The Fonz, Captain Ajax
Magua (1) - xRECKONERx
BBmolla (2) - theamatuer, Zar
hitogoroshi (1) - Magua

Not voting (1) : MagnaofIllusion

I think this is another telling vote count. T-Bone moves to Ajax knowing that I’m waiting in the wings to make him L-1. Only way that T-Bone is scum with Ajax is if theAm is also scum. Because I believe that Magua had made it know he would prefer theAm to Ajax. No reason for T-Bone scum to chose the dominant wagon unless bussing was a prority when he could also vote theAm-Town and make the wagons 5-5 effectively.

Conclusions I can draw from Day 1, if any:

Early vote counts indicate either Ajax / Zar / theAm is possible. And point to theAm as a strong partner possibility. Also possible that scum is in Zar / T-Bone / BB
Possible scum in Zar / T-Bone / BB / Reck.
Review Zar’s Day 1 in regards to theAm.
T-Bone is only scum if it is Ajax / theAm / T-Bone.