Mini 1344: Murder on the HMS Regalia - Game Over

[PeregrineV]

I'm gonna make it clear that Espeonage self-quarantining page 3 or 4 or something is a pretty bad scumslip.

Why is that worse than 24, 28, 33 or 37?

[D3f3nd3r]

First one is scummy.

Second one is RVS. I admit bad RVS, but RVS.

Third one is RVS. Finally some good RVS.

Fourth one is RVS. Espionage means spying.

At first, 37 was RVS, but I kept the vote because Espeon felt scummy.

[Malakittens]

I don't see how self quarantine is a scum slip. If they are scum self quarantine will remove a PR if the scum indeed do have PR. Which is why I believe that Espon is most likely a VT without a role. I don't see how anyone wanting to be self quarantine with a role is helpful.

[guille2015]

If Espeonage is town he is most likely a Vanilla Townie. That is not the issue. The issue is that Espeonage might be mafia, and you are trusting him.

[Malakittens]

I trust too easily then, but it doesn't mean lynch me for it. I'm trusting those type of claim on the other site too, but there's one there in particular that I have trusted, but something that he has just recently done is giving me pause, but there's something addition to that.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Meh. All three of Guille, Esp, and kitty look bad.

VOTE: Guille because I just looked at his ISO and my gut says he's fishy. I think while Esp is looking odd, I don't think a scum would be prone to looking as weird as he is looking. Will put him as the best of those three.

[guille2015]

Gut feelings really wont get you far. If you are going to vote for me, you'd better put a valid case on me, and also, I expect others to respond as well. I don't want to get lynched without my flip telling town who is likely mafia and who is not. I am trying to get information from Mala and Espeonage so as to better judge what to do after they flip. As far as I can tell, both are incompatible as mafia, I find it unlikely that scum would defend scum this early in the game.

However, If Espeonage is lynched and he flips Town. Mala is going to come out and say "See, guys, I told you that he was town", convincing several of you that she is town.

She says that she buddies up with experience players, and that that has gotten her lynched before. She could be town making this mistake, or Scum setting up the above scenario.

The thing is that, I have not heard an argument against me from those voting for me, and in turn I have given a valid argument for those I am voting for (And I admit that my logic might be wrong, but I need to hear a valid reason why it is wrong).

@Espeonage, Ser Arthur, and Malakitten:
Can you give me a detailed reasoning why you are voting? It would be nice if you could include a second suspicion and Explain why.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

However, If Espeonage is lynched and he flips Town. Mala is going to come out and say "See, guys, I told you that he was town", convincing several of you that she is town.

How will she convince us she is town by having been right about one person? And why do you think people are just goiung to fall for it blindly?

@Espeonage, Ser Arthur, and Malakitten:
Can you give me a detailed reasoning why you are voting? It would be nice if you could include a second suspicion and Explain why.

I didn't like this post at all:

It's good to know that some of you are in agreement with me, but being in disagreement does not merit a lynch on Espeonage.

I am suspicious of Espeonage, but not because he disagrees with me, but from a couple of reads I got in our discussion.

I don't know, but the wording reads weird, and you make it sound like people are sheeping you, and then it feels like you're trying to construct a 'case" against Esp so no one can later accuse you of bad play.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Oh, I just read the word "detailed". No, I can't really give you a detailed explanation. It just your posts seem to be aimed at AtE and gaining the favors of the crowd, and trying to make yourself look good while at the same time soft-push a mislynch.

[guille2015]

@Mod What happened with my post #125. It seems to be missing. The ISO shows up, but not in the thread. Or is this something from my end.

[guille2015]

However, If Espeonage is lynched and he flips Town. Mala is going to come out and say "See, guys, I told you that he was town", convincing several of you that she is town.

How will she convince us she is town by having been right about one person? And why do you think people are just goiung to fall for it blindly?

If you do it right, it will work. But it is a risk precisely because of this. The other problem is that town does occasionally do this, reducing the effectiveness of this tell.

@Espeonage, Ser Arthur, and Malakitten:
Can you give me a detailed reasoning why you are voting? It would be nice if you could include a second suspicion and Explain why.

?

I didn't like this post at all:

It's good to know that some of you are in agreement with me, but being in disagreement does not merit a lynch on Espeonage.

I am suspicious of Espeonage, but not because he disagrees with me, but from a couple of reads I got in our discussion.

I don't know, but the wording reads weird, and you make it sound like people are sheeping you, and then it feels like you're trying to construct a 'case" against Esp so no one can later accuse you of bad play.

It seemed to me that Sword of Omens was using my discussion with Espeonage and our difference in opinion to base his vote for Espeonage. I was wrong, he wasn't, he clarified it later. But the point of matter is that I did not want Espionage to get lynched because of a disagreement. I did find it suspicious that he was promoting an idea that I think would help mafia. I admit, I could have used better wording.

It's too early for me to know if someone is scum or not. I made that mistake in my first game here, thinking some where scum when they were town. So I try not to get overwhelmed by the reads I am getting.

[sword_of_omens]

I think using it to protect Pro town might be the best way to go since VT are usually the first to get NK since they basically free themselves from suspicions. With them doing that it helps them scum hunt and normally the scum doesn't like that so they kill them.

ok, not sure I'm understanding you here. You are saying that VT's are the first to get killed because they free themselves from suscpicion? No. That logic applies to ANY confirmed town. VT's are the least of scum's worries, (depending, of course, on the actual PLAY of the VT) A VT's job should primarily be scum hunting and trying to put themselves out as a viable NK taget for scum. They should want to be first in the line of fire, to help protect their PR's. For this reason, town VT's shouldn't claim VT imo.

Yes and because I believe Esp's claim and I don't want him lynched because I feel he's useful to the town and I'd like to keep him around

please explain why you think he would be useful to town?
also, to make sure I understand you, you are saying you believe Espeonage's claim now BECAUSE he voted quarantine himself?

@Phillamon , I really would like to hear more in depth on what you think about Malakit and Espeonage. You seemed much more active last game we were in, and I did like your thinking process for the most part.

[guille2015]

Oh, I just read the word "detailed". No, I can't really give you a detailed explanation. It just your posts seem to be aimed at AtE and gaining the favors of the crowd, and trying to make yourself look good while at the same time soft-push a mislynch.

I see were you are getting at. I do not think I am using AtE to gain the favor of the crowds. I am using logic to gain the favor of the crowds. I am not soft pushing a mislynch because we do not know if it's a mislynch. You should use that argument after the fact. At this point your argument just looks like a Straw man.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I see were you are getting at. I do not think I am using AtE to gain the favor of the crowds. I am using logic to gain the favor of the crowds. I am not soft pushing a mislynch because we do not know if it's a mislynch. You should use that argument after the fact. At this point your argument just looks like a Straw man.

So we should wait AFTER a mislynch to say someone is scummy for pushing the lynch, when we can save a townie from getting lynched by analyzing how people are pushing on certain people. Even before a flip, we can still learn a lot about how people are pushing and on who they're pushing.

[PeregrineV]

I trust too easily then, but it doesn't mean lynch me for it. I'm trusting those type of claim on the other site too, but there's one there in particular that I have trusted, but something that he has just recently done is giving me pause, but there's something addition to that.

Can you answer 196 and 197?

[PeregrineV]

Meh. All three of Guille, Esp, and kitty look bad.

VOTE: Guille because I just looked at his ISO and my gut says he's fishy. I think while Esp is looking odd, I don't think a scum would be prone to looking as weird as he is looking. Will put him as the best of those three.

Describe, using words and posts, "odd" and "weird" Esp.

[drmyshotgun]

Phillammon is not getting into much scumhunting and just posts small pieces here and there.
So what have you actually learned from Mala's reply to your demand for site meta?

[Malakittens]

I'm basically saying.. Scum has a shot to go after a PR with the first NK, but sometimes they don't like the confirmed town because they can be useful in scum hunting. Honestly, it depends on the scum team to want to go after a PR or to take someone who has claimed. Those who claim are more likely not to lie because lying when you're an innocent isn't the best way to go about things.

Espon can scum hunt and explain why he feels who and who is scum. He might not have the power to attempt to hit scum with a role, but he has the power to vote and convince us to help search. I'm sorry, but I believe that's more helpful then someone who just lurks.

also, to make sure I understand you, you are saying you believe Espeonage's claim now BECAUSE he voted quarantine himself?

That's not the exact reason that I believe his claim. If he was scum with a PR why on earth would a scum self quarantine? What would the scum get out of that? If Espon was lying about VT and actually scum, it would because he would most likely be the more powerful 'scum role' and I don't think the greatest scum move in the world would quarantine a role.

[RichardGHP]

Sixth Vote Count of Day 1

Lynch:

[1] image - [PeregrineV]
[3] Espeonage - [D3f3nd3r, sword_of_omens, TheTrollie]
[1] drmyshotgun - [Phillammon]
[2] TheTrollie - [brundibar, Malakittens]
[1] Ser Arthur Dayne - [image]
[2] guille2015 - [Espeonage, Ser Arthur Dayne]
[3] Malakittens - [drmyshotgun, BK201, guille2015]

[0] Not Voting

Quarantine:

[4] Espeonage - [drmyshotgun, Espeonage, Malakittens, guille2015]
[1] TheTrollie - [BK201]
[2] sword_of_omens - [PeregrineV, Ser Arthur Dayne]

[6] Not Voting - [brundibar, TheTrollie, sword_of_omens, image, D3f3nd3r, Phillammon]

V/LA: None

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch and 7 to quarantine.
Deadline for this day is June 23, 1630h UTC+12.

---

@Mod What happened with my post #125. It seems to be missing. The ISO shows up, but not in the thread. Or is this something from my end.

I don't know, but it's not the first post to go missing. I can edit it into your previous or next post, if you like.

Everyone: If you have a post that shows up in ISO but not in thread, please let me know.

[TheTrollie]

@mod: Does the day end when there is a lynch, even if there is no agreement on a quarantine at that time?

sorry if this has been answered somewhere, i tried to find the answer in the first few posts but didn't see anything

[drmyshotgun]

Abandon ship! We are sailing into a blackhole!!

[RichardGHP]

@mod: Does the day end when there is a lynch, even if there is no agreement on a quarantine at that time?

That is correct.

[image]

@D3f3nd3r:

You voted Espeonage during RVS and kept quite while his wagon got as high as L-1 without any justification other than his self-quarantine. This seems like a pretty weak point, at least compared to what else was said. Why would it be a scum-slip to self-quarantine? How would this help scum at all? Further, why do you think whatever scum-motivation Espeonage has for wanting to be jailed is more likely than the town motivation?

@Espeonage:

In #149, why did you ask drmyshotgun specifically if he wanted to push a guille2015 wagon?

What was the point of that post?

Letting you know that unless something changes then I'll be coming down hard on you. You're only saved by the fact that guille is even worse.

How is this warning pro-town? I can see this as an attempt at message-passing or a catch-22 (if he posts more, "He's only doing it to look town after I called him out on it" or "See? I told you he was bad" if he doesn't); I can't see it as useful scumhunting. Wouldn't it be better to make note of it, file it away, and bring it up tomorrow if his play hasn't changed?

Further, you haven't really explained your case on guille2015. You may think its terribly obvious, but even if it is, it still helps us to have your opinion on record rather than just vaguely alluded to. If you are scum, forcing you to have backed, justified reads is one of our bests means of catching you, so please share.

[Espeonage]

You do not have to. But if you do not explain yourself, nobody is going to follow your bandwagon.

You say that like I want people to lynch with me. This day has way to long to go for me to care if people are reading the same stuff as I am.

[Espeonage]

I'm gonna make it clear that Espeonage self-quarantining page 3 or 4 or something is a pretty bad scumslip.

I think you have scumtell and scumslip mixed up. You're free to see whatever you want as a scumtell but scumslips are where I accidentally say I'm mafia, assuming I am.