TM2012: Scummies 2011.5 - Let the credits roll!


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Post Post #925 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:02 am

Post by Zar »

MagnaofIllusion wrote:

Zar wrote: After doing the Vote Analysis, I noticed and mentioned in my Team QT that all the D2 wagons were innocents.


But that’s not an answer to my question. Why did you shift your process from ‘Including yourself in the questionable pile” to “Not including self”.

Reck makes a very good point that you behavior does very much look like someone who is taking actions that they want to be deemed as Town not actual Town actions. You will NEVER catch Town me putting myself in a PoE position where I am analyzing myself as scum. Regardless of whether anyone thinks it is scummy or not. Town you knows you are Town.


Whatever I've tried to contribute has been interpreted as potentially scum-driven, and I'm trying to get my message through as town. Magua and KK are the CI wagons, that were along with mine in D2 and I am also town, so following up to the VCA and based on this piece of informaton I decided to remove myself to leave the scenarios I thought remained as plausible.
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Post Post #926 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:00 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@BB
– since Deas is acting like a pouty 12 year old I’ll remind you to please explain in more detail what the “Self-Redirector” Scummie option was. Thanks!

--

T-Bone wrote: Gonna blatantly prod dodge here. If someone needs me to address something point it out to me and I will at some point tomorrow.


List your top 3 scum suspects and why in some detail. I don’t need MoI style walls but I do want some reasoning.

We have effectively 2 lynches to hit scum. You cannot coast along anymore.

--

Deas wrote:It seems to me, however, that the only reason you were so pushy about this, after I had repeatedly called you town, is so that I could prostrate myself before your great town-ness.


Nope.jpg.

Your play smells of scum who are carefully moving their “suspects” Day to Day based on opportunism and public perception.

Your start of the Day “I want to see what others think of MoI” reads exactly as a fishing expedition to see if the “Hmmm, I might be able to sell a MoI push if other people are receptive” play would pass.

I’ll explain more in my Summary of Why I Would Lynch Deas that is coming (along with my Summary on everyone else alive).

Deas wrote:ugh, sorry, I shouldn't have done that.


VOTE: Deas

You can have my vote for the moment simply for this “Oops, being antagonistic might get me negative attention” post which my gut says comes from scum.
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Post Post #927 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:05 am

Post by Lost Butterfly »

Day 4, Votecount 6
(or the Faraday-can't-see-unvotes votecount)


Zar (1) - xRECKONERx
theamatuer (1) - BBmolla
DeasVail (1) - MagnaofIllusion

Not voting (4) - Zar, T-Bone, theamatuer, DeasVail

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch or no-lynch.

Deadline:
June 23rd at 7:00 PM (EDT)
Countdown to deadline
: (expired on 2012-06-23 19:00:00)

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Post Post #928 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:36 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@Deas
– I’d like you explanation of the following –

Regarding your Reck read
– You’ve kept him on your ‘suspicion radar’ the entire game. Yet I don’t see a single vote for Reck from you. You’ve managed to drop votes on Zar and BBMolla in the past 2 days. Why is Reck always floating around in your ‘secondary suspects’ pool (you linked him to Magua Day 2 and are linking him to BBMolla today) but never someone you are actually demonstrating a push for?

Regarding your Day 2 Scummies no-vote
– You are really going to have to explain how you managed to ‘not vote’ and allow random.org to make the choice given what we saw with scum Manipulating the Best Newbie Day 1 from a Town perspective.

I don’t like that per the QT you were specifically given the deciding vote by KK and Reck and ‘forgot’.

You avoid directly commenting on Fonz’s death and the ‘Best Newbie’ scum manipulation other than your ‘hmmm, that kill only makes sense coming from me” start of Day fluff and your “Fonz dead points to TheAm scum” at . It was clear as Day that leaving votes split allowed scum to more easily Manipulate the results of Scummie distribution. Yet you said not one thing about it.

Also I made it increadibly clear in that Group 2A was not complete. KK had previous to this said that Group 2C was complete (as evidenced in .

You made V/Laing afterwards. No reason for you to NOT have made you PM to Lost Butterfly at that time.

And your first of content Day 3 basically you were rethinking your BBMolla read. I’d like to highlight that portion of your post …

Deas wrote:BBmolla- This is one of my reads that I find myself having to reconsider. I originally had a bit of a scumread on him because he didn't really seem to know what to do in our Day 1 judging group and posted there well after his first post in the thread.
He doesn't seem to show much thought regarding Ajax, and seems to jump straight to supporting his lynch. Until the claim of cop, I never felt at all sure about Ajax (although maybe that's just a me thing).


First this clearly doesn’t reflect what you posted in thread Day 1. You never call him scum and at call him a Town read (with reservations).

I also find the bolded interesting because that bit fits your play regarding Ajax to a tee. You followed Quilford onto Ajax, never questioned him, and parked your vote the entire time. That doesn’t track with someone ‘unsure’ of Ajax’s alignment pre-claim.

This says you had suspicions about BB well before Day 3. Yet you didn’t bother to vote for the player you claim you did Day 1 (T-Bone) to assure that the ‘SEKRIT POWERS’ of Professor Mafia didn’t get into a Town read’s hands.

I think you are lying.
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Post Post #929 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:02 am

Post by theamatuer »

xRECKONERx wrote:That has to be the DUMBEST FUCKING THEORY I've heard the entire game. Congratulations.

Our options were essentially: give someone the ability to secretly message the town via modposts, give someone the ability to make one of their teammates an in-game tree stump, or professor mafia which was SEEKRIT POWERZ.

Tell me how that makes one of us scum for choosing that. Go right ahead.

Well, the most logical possibility is that scum has an inventor role that only works after Prof Mafia is given, in which they decided to immediately vanillaize the person just in case. If scum knew that, chances are they would try to gear for prof.
Plus the mod one can be quite useful, like checking reactions and stuff. ( saying xx is guilty or Inno or such)

anyways can you give us a summary of what happened, including who said what when
Its just whatever
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Post Post #930 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:10 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

TheAm
– you have questions / discussion in the following posts you need to answer or risk my vote.


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Post Post #931 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:13 am

Post by theamatuer »

921- Zars accurate, but like I said. It wasn't just a deathmiller, it was a 1-shot vig that caused you to flip as SK if you died before you used it.
902- I'm making it right now
Its just whatever
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Post Post #932 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:14 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

theamatuer wrote:921- Zars accurate, but like I said. It wasn't just a deathmiller, it was a 1-shot vig that caused you to flip as SK if you died before you used it.


Why did you specifically out the existence of a DoubleVoter Day 3?
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Post Post #933 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:17 am

Post by theamatuer »

Actually I was talking about the case there. Where did I hint that I had a theory? I may have done that already
Pedit- I wanted the identity of the double voter to be secret. I just wanted to prove the existence of one.
Its just whatever
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Post Post #934 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:18 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

theamatuer wrote:Pedit- I wanted the identity of the double voter to be secret. I just wanted to prove the existence of one.


Why?
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Post Post #935 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:23 am

Post by theamatuer »

The whole PR thing and not having them die and stuff.
We already planned to announce the existence of the DV before LYLO D1
Its just whatever
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Post Post #936 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:35 am

Post by BBmolla »

MagnaofIllusion wrote:@BB – since Deas is acting like a pouty 12 year old I’ll remind you to please explain in more detail what the “Self-Redirector” Scummie option was. Thanks!

You target a player, they are forced to target you.
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Post Post #937 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:41 am

Post by BBmolla »

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zar

Doing this for now.
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Post Post #938 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:36 am

Post by BBmolla »

MagnaofIllusion wrote:Also please confirm that BB voted to give the Scummie to Quilford and Deas to T-Bone. Also please confirm that no discussion of who to give it to was made in QT ( which I think Deas already said but confirmation can't hurt)

...Uh we didn't discuss in 1C, but I voted to give out the scummy in 1C to hito.

I voted to give out the scummy to Quilford in 2B.
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Post Post #939 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:54 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

theamatuer wrote:
xRECKONERx wrote:That has to be the DUMBEST FUCKING THEORY I've heard the entire game. Congratulations.

Our options were essentially: give someone the ability to secretly message the town via modposts, give someone the ability to make one of their teammates an in-game tree stump, or professor mafia which was SEEKRIT POWERZ.

Tell me how that makes one of us scum for choosing that. Go right ahead.

Well, the most logical possibility is that scum has an inventor role that only works after Prof Mafia is given, in which they decided to immediately vanillaize the person just in case. If scum knew that, chances are they would try to gear for prof.
Plus the mod one can be quite useful, like checking reactions and stuff. ( saying xx is guilty or Inno or such)

anyways can you give us a summary of what happened, including who said what when

HOW IS THAT EVEN REMOTELY THE MOST LOGICAL POSSIBILITY!?

The summary is this:

We all checked in.
DV says he is leaning towards Prof Mafia.
KK says he is too. He also says he isn't sure of my being scummy.
KK says Amrun thinks DV is town.
DV asks why.
I say I'm fine with Prof Mafia.
DV/KK go back and forth about shit for awhile that is honestly just way too time consuming to reprint here, but it's basically them questioning each other on their reads.
I say I'm fine giving the award to hito or BBmolla.
KK says he wants to give it to Quilford or T-Bone.
DV says he supports T-Bone or BBmolla, then suggests I vote BBmolla while KK votes T-Bone, giving DV the deciding vote.
I vote for the award and lock it in.
KK explains he thinks T-Bone is town due to his D1 wall post about Ajax.
I say I don't necessarily love the idea of DV having the hammer vote since he's possible scum and could fuck us over and refuse to create a majority.
DV points out that if there's a tie vote, it randomly goes to one person, not "nobody".
I concede that I was wrong.
End QT.
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Post Post #940 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:55 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

BBmolla wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zar

Doing this for now.

more of this, please

@MoI: Do you think it's more likely for DV to be scum than Zar? If so, who do you think is most likely to be buddies with DV?
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Post Post #941 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:08 am

Post by DeasVail »

Seriously MoI?
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Post Post #942 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:07 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Zar:
Why haven't you voted for me, considering your suspicion of me the previous day?
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Post Post #943 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:38 pm

Post by Zar »

DeasVail wrote:
Zar:
Why haven't you voted for me, considering your suspicion of me the previous day?


So far, my reads have been wrong. I am trying to wrap my head around what I could be missing.

I haven't had the time to sit down and do a full re-read of the living players. Johhog's last post about you in the QT suggests I could be finding you scummy for playstyle reasons rather than for behavior coming from scum. He says he thinks you're probably town, mostly based on a gut impression of your posts being sincere.
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Post Post #944 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:37 pm

Post by T-Bone »

Okay....I too, am going to wipe the slate clean on townreads.

Theam #880 - WTF is that? I noticed that you rpeated this sentiment later. So because they gave out Prof Scummy that allegedly looks for fake scummies allows the scum to suddenly give out fake scummies? What in all this game leads you to believe that?

Zar #886 - Kinda a loaded statement there. That means that Reck/Deas are town, and MoI, Theam, BB, and myself are scum in this case?

BB #889 - Do you need MoI's approval or something? It's not like you would be hammering a lynch or anything. I get that MoI is everyone's strongest townread but still...

MoI, lets talk some VCA.... first, we have some other voting methods and quite a bit of information on those votes, would a VCA on judging groups be appropriate? First I don't understand why that vote count shows a Zar/Theam relationship. It could show a Ajax/Theam relationship as has been implied, or perhaps an Ajax-Zar/Bone/BB relationship. Also your conclusion amounts to "there must be scum in the other players left alive' (okay you do omit Deas here) but still. If I go an answer your other question with 'two of the six of you must be scum" is that an answer you're going to accept?

Staying on this, MoI also claims to have no fake scummie. So, is BB telling the truth about his situation, lying, or is someone else lying?

#903 - Ah thank you I was hoping something like this would be posted. The groups I'm most concerned about is 2B and 2C. 2B because Quilford died in the same night he received it. 2C because of the fake scummie ordeal. Plus Deas who apparently had all of the control in that group...didn't exercise such control (or maybe he did). Based on that could indicate a partnership between Deas/BB (in-thread interactions notwithstanding) or partnership between BB/Reck here. It's a ballsy move either way, lobbying to give your partner a power. Of course it was a secret power, so if one of these partnerships is true, you'd want your scum partner to have the power. For all any of them knew, it was worth the risk.

Deas I apologized if you answered already, who did you intend to vote, me or BB?

Staying on the groups real quick...if my townreads are right (about Zar and MoI) that clears 2A in my eyes of scum. If we run under the assumption that there was only 1 scum in each group, that clears Reck, making Deas scum, and then his partner being BB or Theam. Either partnership I could see. I need to look back as to how Ajax would fit into an Ajax/Deas/BB or Theam group.

Deas #917 supports a Theam/Deas pairing. Comparing my lurker play to his lurker play side-by-side, if I were to get lynched or killed tonight he could point to that. Though I have to question something here Deas. You're saying that scum wouldn't question his buddy's fabricated lie? I think he would to try and add credibility to himself. Asking for an investigation? Sure why not, Theam has a VI role to play up. Theam struggling to catch up? That's null at best. The final point...what? In your townread here you've pointed out things that could go either way for town and scum.

Next page...top three scum reads...

I still rank Theam as #1. Ajax definitely did not push a Theam counterwagon, when he could have easily quoted the scummy things Theam had done and got that lynch through. Shows an Ajax/Theam pairing. Theam continues to play with very little regards as to what's going on. Doing things like asking to be given an investigative role so he could be more useful. I don't think he ever elaborated on why he wanted it or who he'd use it on and why. His play of course has been consistently VI. It isn't very hard to act like one though, especially if you want people to call you town for that reason. Some of my process of elimination further puts him in a prime position to be scum from the judging groups.

Deas and BB are my other two reads. Deas mostly through process of elimination and his interactions with Theam/BB/Reck in the judging QTs and the thread. His play hasn't been overtly scummy. He's the scumread that gets explained mostly by other player's alignments. BB third for his erratic play and some process of elimination.

Reck is conditional on some townflips from my top three. A Reck and BB pairing makes the most sense to me.

Outside shot that MoI hardcore bussed Ajax Day 1. I have no idea who'd be his partner though if that were the case. But if MoI was willing to bus Ajax hard for no apparent reason than his 2nd or 3rd scum read would be his partner. A scumteam that includes MoI probably has to include Theam. Zar might be possible too since Zar has been on MoI's reads I believe. Really a longshot possibility.

Zar a similar situation. Zar is someone I view as town for his play. He could maybe fit in with BB as a partner, maybe MoI as described above. Another longshot and unlikely at this stage.

Based on gameplay, I'd vote on Theam. Based on process of elimination, Deas and BB's flip explains more pairings. Means I'm not voting MoI/Zar/Reck today as their flips tell us a lot less about the game than the other three.
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Post Post #945 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:32 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Reck is town because...?
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Post Post #946 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:50 pm

Post by T-Bone »

He's not town, he's just 4th likely to be scum.
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Post Post #947 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:51 pm

Post by DeasVail »

T-Bone wrote:He's not town, he's just 4th likely to be scum.


But when your scumreads are PoE, that kind of reasoning doesn't really work. :?
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Post Post #948 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:53 pm

Post by T-Bone »

Yes it does.
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Post Post #949 (ISO) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:59 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Ok, so what do you think of Reck?
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