Mini 1327: Murder in the Louvre- Day 6

[Nuwen]

If by "it" you mean I never say whether I saved chamber or not, I will apologetically note that it seemed so obvious with the two kills that I had not successfully protected that it did not bear mentioning.

Nope.

[Magua]

If you meant something else, kindly elucidate.

[Yosarian2]

I want you to claim in full. There's a specific set of potential circumstances that makes today lylo for town, and it's increasingly likely that we're in that specific set of circumstances.

No. I've claimed all of the information that could possibly be pertinent. All further information is not useful to town, and is useful to scum.

I respect this, actually, but a full claim from you might help us decide if we should lynch you today. Right now your role is seeming kind of improbable, and if you are telling the truth, the exact limitations of your role don't really matter if you get lynched.

[Magua]

If I thought that the exact details might keep you from lynching me, I would give them. But I don't. I am a second (at the least) protective role in a game; the details don't change any of that.

Given that, I'm not giving the details. It won't keep me from getting lynched, but it can hurt if I don't get lynched. So.

[Yosarian2]

The fact that you're the second protective role in the game isn't really an argument against you; in fact, having a ton of kill-prevention roles kind of solves the "how could there be a mafia, a SK, and a vig in a mini" problem Vi was worrying about earlier; it's not nearly as crazy if the mod expects half of the kills to fail.

[shos]

guys I read till post 1893, will catch up soon sorry

[shos]

Caught up. Nothing too important to add, posting from iphone. Id like to hear maguss full claim. Oh and that ither jebrew note-these are not real words in hebrew.

[shos]

Got it! It is a bible quote that deems the end of the reign of the babylonian king. Wut??

[Vi]

Got it! It is a bible quote that deems the end of the reign of the babylonian king. Wut??

Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin. Probably the extent of the Hebrew I know. "You have been measured twice, and found wanting; you shall be judged

[by having your kingdom given over to the Persians]

."

It's pretty likely this plus "Ba'al Peor" is pointing to a Babylonian-era artifact. Offhand, though, no one has claimed one, so safeclaims, etc. We know that it's not referring to me or Yos2, at any rate.

--

I'm not in the mental state to go over the rest right now, so I'm going to go out and see if I can maybe just inhale the smell of duck cooked in honey and garlic, since I can't taste it.

[springlullaby]

Day 4 votecount 2

(0) Zar:

(0) Yosarian2:

(0) Vi:

(0) charter:

(1) Magua:

shos,

(1) Nuwen :

Vi,

(1) shos:

charter ,

(4) Not voting :

Zar, Magua, Yosarian2, Nuwen,

With 7 players, 4 votes are required to lynch.

Deadline reminder: the deadline is set to

Friday June the 22th.

Countdown:

(expired on 2012-06-22 12:00:00)

[Zar]

I find interesting that no one has claimed to be responsible of sending visions to other players.

[Zar]

I looked for Elmo's role online, and I found this:

http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Dreamer

It's not a Mafiascum link, so I don't know if spring borrowed this role from some other place.

[Zar]

So apparently the Dreamer gets messages in which things are revealed to him. These dreams allow the player to narrow the suspect pool if successful.

Is there a possibility that somebody could have targeted Elmo's ability to dream and stolen/absorbed it from him?

[Zar]

What if this person is able to project these dreams to other players? And these visions are about three different roles rather than one?

[Yosarian2]

Most likely scenario is that the visions are just a mechanic of the game, and that the visions are sent by the mod directly to a random player.

[charter]

Unvote

because I have no clue what is going on in this game and I'm not going to be the one to blow it.

Night one I targeted Furc because I thought his vote was suspect. I was told he was a young woman with brown curls. She was reclining and wearing some sort of dress of which I need to google later.
Night two I targeted Vi, I don't remember why. It was just a description of a mummy, it game me his height and is laying down wearing linen. Four vases are next to him.
Night three I targeted Yos, because he wanted me to verify his claim. He's a young woman with short hair. She is in bed, and has a gun by her side.


This supports his claim. I think his pic is of a woman.

I still think Shos is incredibly suspect. His claim is suspicious and his way of trying to discredit my claim reeks of self preservation, but I'll try and read some with a clearer head.

Also, I will most likely be V/LA until Sunday some time.

[charter]

Night two I targeted Vi, I don't remember why. It was just a description of a mummy, it

game

gave

me his height and is laying down wearing linen. Four vases are next to him.

[Nuwen]

Most likely scenario is that the visions are

just a mechanic of the game, and that the visions are sent by the mod directly to a random player.

Yeah,

shos's role is looking pretty SK-ish

here.

I'm not sure how you can think these two things simultaneously when the visions have clearly said,

eh, apparently someone is sending out visions or something is triggering them.

I'm paraphrasing everything, I've had to resort to synonyms.

The accompanying message says something along the lines of me wandering about while thinking about the weird stuff that has being going on. I end up getting into a place that resembles a study, and it looks like I like the room decoration.

I sit down at a desk and while I'm minding my own business playing with whatever is in the desk surface, I get three visions:

- some sort of powerfully energetic entity/creature that can meddle with fate.

- An ancient voice emerging from the origins, resonant/low pitched and taking its time, entering consciences.
- a bright light that can't be avoided, showing

no sign of wickedness or righteousness.

And then it's all over and I'm wondering WTH was that about.

I receieved yet another vision. This time, a repeat of yesterday's message.

I go into the same room I went yesterday and I like the ambience, but there seems to be a fine layer of dust covering the furniture. My thoughts wantder as I sit in the chair next to the big desk and the same three visions arise.

A blinding light that

can't be stopped changing fate.

An ancient voice

lacking vice or virtue

An entity with unquantifiable energy, deep and slow that can enter minds

And the visions end suddenly.

If the visions come directly from a mod and NOT player, they're very strongly suggesting that Shos' role is true neutral and a survivor. "Meddle with fate" "can't be stopped changing Fate" refers to the strong swing a survivor has when he reaches a lylo-esque situation - he can choose to lend an extra quickhammer to scum if it looks like town is going to lose, or jump on dwindling scum if the game is swinging town-wise.

Shos has said that he'd like to win with the town, but we can't trust him on that one. Given the opportunity to hammer quick scum in lylo, I think he'll take the quick win. Anyone would.

We also can't lynch Shos - scum have to contend with his vest and NEED to lynch him if the game is swinging out of their favor, because he then becomes a liability.

We all know the way to deal with a survivor as town is to just lynch scum & win, because this encourages the survivor to lend momentum to the already-winning side instead of championing for a losing cause.

Contrarywise, if you think Shos is an SK, you pretty much HAVE to think these messages originate from Shos and NOT the mod because he would need to be crumbing a survivor role. You can't hold both ideas that the mod is writing/sourcing visions and Shos is an SK.

[Nuwen]

After going through claims, I'm very sure that:

Charter -> Yos is the path to victory here. Uh, sorry Vi. Confirmation bias is a terrible thing sometimes.

Still playing "raise your hand if you see it," and it has to do with my vote here.

vote: Charter

[Yosarian2]

Interesting, Nuwen. Ok, Shos is probably a survivor.

I'm...really running out of suspects here. Somebody's got to be scum, but I'm having a harder and harder time figuring out who that could be.

[Yosarian2]

Charter? Ok, why Charter?

[Nuwen]

quickhammer *with scum in lylo in post #1917

[Nuwen]

Charter? Ok, why Charter?

I'd like to see who, if anyone, sees it too. If Sunday-ish rolls around and no one has made the same connection, I'll probably share with the class.

In the meantime, more loose ends:

Zar, dreamers on mafiascum tend to be some variant of a

lucid dreamer

. They can invent their action every night and send it in. The role is incredibly powerful and beyond-swingy because its effects can't be anticipated while the setup is being designed. Sometimes limitations are put on the number or relative strength of the actions (1-shot ability creation for entire game, create a "basic" ability from a JOAT-style list, any ability but has a chance to fail). The limitations and variants are determined by how the role would interact with the rest of the game.

I'm also catching more and more things in Yos' ISO as I skim it.

I am also starting to have doubts about the existence of a SK; there are just too many missing kills, especially with the doc dead. Perhaps the mafia just had an extra one-shot kill or something?

If you're

actually

doubting the origin of a 2nd shot and not just

sowing doubt

, you're smart enough to have thought about the forensic investigator. Explain the function of a forensics role in a game with one faction with an extra shot - are you telling me that an entire role exists to seek+clarify the extra shot? I don't think so. There's an SK+mafia or multiball (oh god...) in this mini.

[Yosarian2]

Hmm. I was assuming that he was the type of forensic investigator who gets the identitiy of a murderer by investigating a body, especally since he claimed "town information power role" before he died. If it's the other way, then you're right, that might mean two scum killing groups.

But then where are all the kills? I was seriously wondering if you and Vi were (godfather and sk), and had both tried to kill each other last night and failed, but short of something improbable like that, I'm having trouble understanding how there could be so many missing kills with just the power roles that we have claimed.

[Yosarian2]

On a side note, Nuwen, you really need to explain what your whole theory is, because it's not really making sense. It sounds like you're saying that charter is the last member of the mafia, but we know that's not true because charter was tracked on a night that there was a kill (and he also can't be a SK for the same reason). The only way charter could be scum is if there's a 2 man mafia still around and he's part of it, but you also seem to think that there is also a SK, and a 3 man mafia + a SK seems unlikely, not to mention that there seem to be too many mostly-confirmed town for that to really be practical at this point.

It would also help if you stopped being quite so mysterious and explain what that "raise your hand when you spot it" is.